Trade Secrets September 25 2004


Earlier this evening (my time) Dave suggested we try out skype in anticipation of our next TS podcast. It turned into an episode filled with brainfarts, laughter and 2 geeks trying to configure a new (non-skype) voip application.



This transcript was automatically generated.


I am.
Dude, it’s working.
What’s really funny is that I didn’t answer the phone though.
You didn’t answer the phone? That’s number one.
What do you mean? I don’t know, it’s just rag and all of a sudden you were talking.
Okay, I’ll take it.
That was cool.
Number one, number two, here’s the other weird thing.
I can hear you through my headphones, but I can’t hear me through my headphones.
Which is all right, I just sort of believe.
I just sort of believe if you can hear me, then you’ll be fine and I don’t need to hear myself.
Yeah, it’s okay because I’m actually, hold on.
So now do I get some of that cool reverb too? Here’s the bum bummer.
Shit, this is really hard, hold on.
What happened? It’s delaying a little bit.
Hold on, that’s better.
Well, maybe if I don’t.
I see it’s coming back now.
Back now.
I see the problem.
We got a loop go in there, huh? I can hear myself now.
I can hear myself now.
Yeah, you don’t want- » Wow , wow, wow.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
We had that kind of delay once during a webcast at Harvard and we were able to sing row, row, row your boat with ourselves.
You know, like a little round thing, the delay was that good.
Really? Yeah, it was pretty funny.
Okay, if I turn this down a bit.
Boy, they really got zapped and Haiti, you know.
This hurricane, it’s coming up, it’s really- Hold on a second, Dave.
I just wanna set this up.
One, two, check one, two.
Can you talk for a sec? I can talk for a sec.
Yeah, okay.
Hello, this is Dr. Dave coming.
It was so cool, and then Doug Kay, I’m gonna play do that on my next source code.
Doug Kay came back with the correction on the settings Dr.
Dave advised.
Yeah, it was perfect, it was so perfect.
Did you hear the Gilmore gang? I haven’t yet.
Oh, dude, they’re all over iPodder.
Really, good.
Yeah, and of course some of the guys- Finally, finally, finally, finally, they have some technology to talk about.
It really, and then one of the guys says, you know, Adam Curry, the ex VH 1 VJ, I’m like, oh fuck.
That hurt, man, it fucking hurt .
You’re getting old, you’re getting old.
That sucks.
You’re ass stags, literally, as they say those words.
Oh, Dave.
May the hair god punish you even more.
[LAUGH] Shit.
Listen, worse than it could be worse, I just saw a thing on Donald Trump.
No kidding.
And they had a picture of him 20 years ago, and he actually looked pretty good.
[LAUGH] Back in the day, yeah, the Donald was looking good.
Yeah, exactly, well, he was in New York icon in the 80s.
I was living in New York during the 80s.
I know, that’s why I mentioned it.
I know, I think if you watch that show, you may get a glimpse of your future.
Gee, thanks, Dave.
No, that’s all right.
Well, he’s a very innovative guy, don’t you think? I think I’m extremely innovative.
Yeah, and he is too, though.
[LAUGH] It’s funny because I’m exactly in the middle age-wise between the two of you.
Yeah, how old is Trump? Is he 60? He’s 10 years older than me.
Yes, he’s 59.
59, yeah.
And you’re just turning 40.
He’s still got a ways to go before you’re old.
Man, I tell you.
So, okay, you said the reason we’re recording this, you ch atted me.
You chatted me up, you bitch.
You chatted me up and said that there’s a VP debate tomorrow.
Yeah, I just heard this, that we’re on the eve of the VP debate.
I have to go look into this, but that could be just as good in many ways as the debate between Kerry and Bush because Cheney is kind of an asshole.
[LAUGH] Okay, just kind of.
Well, it’s kind of, I’m sure his wife doesn’t think she, well, maybe she does.
Yeah, you don’t know.
Yeah, it could be, so that could be kind of interesting.
But I thought it would be fun to have people, if we could swing it technically, to have people be able to call in during the debate.
Cuz we’d all have something we could watch at the same time and something to respond to.
So that way, if you and I happen to miss one of the lies that Bush was telling, we’re gonna overlook the ones that Kerry tells, of course.
Of course.
Of course.
[LAUGH] If we have to catch a lie or miss one, then somebody else might catch it.
It’s sort of like, they can catch it.
Okay, but the problem here with the call in is that, gee, boy.
Maybe that’s pushing it.
That sounds like it’s pushing it.
Well, no, no.
I mean, what I’d like to do is, first I’d like to see if we can even get our audio synced up, cuz there could be a significant delay between what you get from CNN and what I get from CNN, which will also make it interesting.
But I wanna try and stick to all the known factors before we go.
Well, how much of a delay do you think there would be? Well, I’ve seen satellite delays of many, many seconds.
Really? Yeah, come on, hold on a second, Dave, what baby? [INAUDIBLE] Yeah, I’ve been if and on Bella.
Ate a nuclear? [INAUDIBLE] Is that snacks or is it a- [INAUDIBLE] I was just served my Saturday snack, thank you dear.
[INAUDIBLE] Okay, I’m talking to Dave, the one you laugh so loud about? [INAUDIBLE] Why did she laugh at me or with me? No, she was laughing at your Bush commentary.
Really? Yeah, she cracked up when you said he’s lying like a motherfucker.
[LAUGH] Cracked up.
I felt like we were doing a golf show or something.
It was great, it was perfect .
[LAUGH] But that’s exactly what it’s like.
Yeah, I was like, okay, we ’re watching President Bush here in the Rose Garden.
And he’s taking out a three club, a three wood.
And he pulls up one every month.
[LAUGH] That’s funny, I’m glad, I was entertained by two, it could be much better.
Rushland both did a wonderful job with Kerry, I was laughing out loud.
It was funny.
Was that on the radio? Yeah, it was on the radio.
Shit, I wish I could hear that.
Well, it’s long gone, but I was in Pennsylvania on my beginning, my cross country drive.
And I think he had recorded the Kerry speech.
A lot of his stuff was recorded.
Yeah, and so he had it on this loop thing, and he would press the button and Kerry would say the thing.
And then he’d go, I can’t comment on this.
And then he would say, I have to hit pause.
[LAUGH] That’s what I do on the source code.
That’s fun.
And then he would, yeah, of course, then he would hit back space.
And then he would play it again .
And he’d get angry all over it.
[LAUGH] And he would blame Kerry for repeating himself, which I thought was the most beautiful little thing he did.
Kerry actually wasn’t repeating himself, he was just repeatedly playing the thing Kerry had said.
[LAUGH] Exactly.
Well, but you want to do this live, right? I don’t know, I don’t know how I want to do it.
I just think we ought to do more trade secrets things, because there’s more stuff to talk about, number one.
Number two is I’ve been getting a universally very, very positive response from people about this.
Yeah, they really like it.
Scobal, I had dinner with Rod ney Scobal.
And we know his boss.
Oh yeah.
[LAUGH] Yep, and- What did he have to say? His boss? No, Scobal.
I don’t know what his boss said.
Scobal said, Scobal said, you ’re gonna get a radio contract within two weeks.
Well, you know what? It’s very easy to perceive this being on the radio, because it’s what people want to listen to during drive time.
I like a mother tongue.
Hey, Christina.
I like a mother tongue.
That’s my daughter now walking in.
She’s 14, thanks, Dave.
No, I swear it backwards.
You’ve corrupted the youth of America.
[LAUGH] Listen.
He used words like, “How the fuck are we gonna be on the radio?” Oh, that’s a good point.
We have to stop using words like that.
He’s lying like somebody else’s mother.
Yeah, but see, then already it’s not as fun.
Of course, it’s not gonna be as fun.
So maybe we don’t have to strive for a radio contract.
I think the massive amounts of iPods may do it for us.
That’s true, yeah.
I heard the thing you were talking about with Orl.
Was that Andrew Orlasky? Was that the same Andrew Orlask y that routinely trashes all the bloggers here? I have no idea.
I’ve never read any of his stuff, but I thought this was an amazing piece.
It was, given what he said.
We have to figure out if this is the same guy.
He’s from Australia, I think ? Yeah, probably isn’t the same guy then.
Maybe that one.
It was President, but it was

No, he’s in the UK, I’m sorry.
He’s in the UK.
That’s the same Andrew.
Okay, yeah.
It was both President and ignorant at the same time.
It was magnificent, both of both.
I mean, he forecast what was actually going to happen, except that his forecast was off by a few years, right? Five.
Five, yeah.
Yeah, he says iPods are going to fill themselves within five years, and Apple won’t build it, but someone else will.
Yeah, dude, we did.
Hope, I’m losing you, Dave.
Are you there? Hello? Yeah.
Yeah, what happened there? I don’t know.
Well, it’s just a connection all of a sudden dropped out.
Good, I thought I figured it was exactly six minutes.
No, that’s what your instant message was.
No, no, no, in fact, we’re now 10 minutes and 37 seconds.
Now I’m not too worried about that.
Here he comes, it’s Murphy.
Yeah, hey, he’s lying like a motherfucker.
Yeah, yeah.
Excuse me, for those people who didn’t listen to this, apparently this is going to actually- You need to speak up a little bit, Dave, you’re a little bit soft.
Actually, it seems like this is actually going to make it to like on the internet and stuff, right? About this? Yeah, of course.
Okay, so for the people listening at home, it’s very important that you- Or in your car or on your walk.
In your car or walk.
Or while you’re exercising.
Or whatever it is that you ’re doing.
It’s plane spotting.
Plane spotting.
What are you eating? Look, this wasn’t a planned show.
I’m eating, I have a nice avocado with shrimp.
I have some olives and I have some French bread with crab, cocktail stuff and peppers and it’s a weekend at the castle.
The quality of my connection went really way down.
No, I’m sorry.
I’ll stop eating that’ll help.
I think that- Can you hear me? Yeah, I hear you fine.
Can, really? Okay, it’s funny.
Maybe you have something running, maybe you got mail running or something and it’s- It’s a swirling emotion.
You got something running in the background, maybe your email is sucking it in.
I don’t know.
Okay, I can hear you fine.
All right, so what else are we, yeah, so we just got an email from Andre Radka and you should be on the mail list now, the Frontier Colonel mail list.
Yeah, I signed up, you sent me the email, thanks.
And so we’ve got the first sort of candidate, release candidate for the open source release of Frontier.
Really, is it already available? Yeah.
So what can I do with this? I can download it and do what? Okay, that was really bizarre the way that sounded.
Robocopping, we call that.
What was the name of that guy, that robotic- Max Headroom.
That’s it, you sound just like Max Headroom.
I look like him too at the moment.
How did you know? Because, you know, it’s like we’re on the same wavelength, Dave.
I’m touching the laptop, maybe it’s actually the TCP/IP connection is sending brain waves.
[LAUGH] It’s possible.
Okay, so the open source release of Frontier.
So here’s what you can do with it.
I did understand the question, even if it did sound bizarre.
First of all, you have to have metroworks environment.
Code warrior, is that what that is? Code warrior, that’s right.
And they have it available for both Windows and for Macintosh, which are the two platforms that this code runs on.
And then there are build instructions that actually, I think we still need to post those, but you can sort of figure it out.
And then what happens is, you build it and it turns into Frontier. exe.
Then you, but however you can make changes to it before.
And before you compile it.
So now you have the license to create your own like Frontier if you want to.
And you could, you can use it to, how big is the kernel actually in file size? I don’t know, I haven’t looked in a while.
Let’s see.
You mean like when it’s compiled, right? Yeah, what size is the Front ier. exe? Yeah, how big is Frontier. exe when you compile it? We need to do another.
We need to, let’s recreate this connection.
I can’t have a conversation this way.
Okay, I’ll call you back.
Yeah, can you call me back? Yeah, I’d love to call you back.
All right.
Hello? Yeah, much faster than regular phone service, eh? My God.
That was scary.
I mean, you sounded like you were crazy there at the end.
I am.
I was, I was, I was, I was, I was delaying like brrrrr.
Wait a minute, Christina, are you downloading something? No.
We’ve got to check, you know , she got line wire running again .
She’s lying like a motherfucker.
I have the headphones on, thank God.
She didn’t hear that.
Tell her what I said.
Dave said you’re lying like a motherfucker.
Now we get the, the, the teenager cold shoulder.
We don’t get any, no response.
She’s on MSN talking to 8,000 people at once.
Really? Mm-hm.
You’re breaking up again.
That’s the whole thing is happening again.
I can hear you fine.
Yeah, well, we can’t have a discussion this way.
But are you, but you must be running your mail client or something’s running that you ’re going to have to shut off.
All right, all right, all right, hold on.
Let me just close the bunch of stuff now.
All right, I’m closing AOL.
I just closed, closed Norton An ivirus.
That shirt uses up a lot.
That’ll, although I don’t think, I don’t think it was actually running though.
Okay, so now I’m closing AIM.
All right, now I’m closing, I don’t want to close Skype, no ? No, no, keep that running.
That would suck.
Yeah, Skype would be the thing I would not want to quit.
iTunes, that could be it.
I, iTunes just wants itself whenever it feels like it, it really pisses me off.
Whenever it feels like it.
But you probably have an iP od or script running, one of those damn things, launching your iTunes all over the place.
Excuse me, but I don’t run that shit, all right? No, you’re too hardcore.
I have to go download the fucking source to Frontier, but you won’t even install a freaking application.
Now you’re talking all that slow way again, you’re, I have to go install your app.
That’s too bad, because I can hear you just perfectly, that really sucks.
Like, hey, this can’t be very good.
Well, you sound fine.
I know, I know, except when I’m imitating you.
Yeah, why don’t you call me back then? All right, let’s try that, hold on, I’ll go away.
[BELL RINGING] One ring eating, one ring eating, two ring eating-ies.
All right, say something.
Yeah, I’m on.
That’s better.
I think we’re still doing one of those trade secret shows where we’re not doing anything other than talking about trade secrets.
Well, you want to do the Skype test.
I can’t function the way we were doing it, so, all right, this may be better.
Okay, is this working okay for you? So far, so good.
Okay, good.
All right, so now the question is, let me just find out what the size of this stuff is, because you asked, right? Mm-hm.
All right, let’s go explore.
And it’s not that big, basically, it’s the– Yeah? [INAUDIBLE] Let’s see.
Hey, you know, I’d love to have some of that food you’re eating , Erica.
I’m telling you, Patricia just joined us.
She said she can’t hear me or you because I have the headphones on, but she’s– now she’s eating.
What do you have there? Avocado.
And shrimp and dachshund.
That’s rabbit food.
That’s healthy food, actually.
Yeah, and you have, what is that, sun-dried tomatoes? Sun-dried tomatoes and– And what is this? And it is some– Wrap.
Yeah, some wrap.
Tortilla, tortilla.
Now, could you ask her to sing that song as she sang for us, yeah? Or it’s like asking a comedian to tell a joke.
Tell a joke.
Or a programmer to write some code.
Write some code.
No, I will not ask.
What was that song? What was that? Mambo Italiano.
That’s what it was.
Yeah, would you like it? Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it was funny.
I was listening.
She says not bad for a heart patient.
No, that’s exactly what I was thinking while she was doing it.
That’s exactly what he was thinking.
Yeah, she thought that was really good.
You’re– you’re– One heart patient.
One heart patient to another here.
With me in the middle, I don’t think that’s a good place to be .
Why not? Just kidding.
You have to take full of us old heart patients in our old age or whatever.
Yeah, someone’s got to watch over you guys.
So it’s 1357K.
So it’s about 1. 3 megs.
Oh, that’s nothing.
It’s tiny compared to an MP3 .
I mean, you know– But you could actually code all kinds of stuff into the kernel.
And turn that into an application.
Like, for example, one of the things I wanted to do– Is create iPod or– Well, that wasn’t what I was going to say.
I don’t know.
You guys seem to be doing so good with that.
I’m not sure we need to do that .
Well, the publishing side is where we’re going to run into problems.
And I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
You know, because either you’re going to interface with existing weblog software that’ll create an RSS file, or you’re going to basically go back and do all that work again .
And I think that’s pretty silly .
No, you don’t want to recreate a weblog– No, of course not.
But that’s exactly the infrastructure we want to publish.
Well, OK, so you’ve got– let’s go through this.
WordPress sounds like they’re going to do it, right? Well, they already have an enclosure support running.
And I have half of it in Manila .
OK, that’s part of what I did for secrets at scripting. com.
Yeah, I’d love to have that code.
I don’t have the user interface.
So I’ll give you the code.
OK, great.
But first, let me put a user interface on it so that you can type the URL in .
So you don’t have to go into web edit and put it in there, because that’s the way I have to do it right now.
Oh, OK, yeah, that’s not a very convenient way.
Yeah, that’s not going to go over– well, but it’s very– the easy part, I think, is the user interface.
The hard part was figuring out how to fit it in.
Well, wouldn’t you do it just like– just like radio– Because that’s Manila.
I’m sorry, I was going to say, wouldn’t you do it just like radio use land? It’s very much like radio.
Sure, it’s very much like radio use land.
But it’s Manila, because Manila is a different model.
It’s a dynamic content management system, whereas radio– you know, it’s the question of deep frying versus baking.
Manila is deep fried, radio is baked.
But what was I going to say? So you’ve got radio, you’re going to have Manila soon, movable type, probably should– they should do it.
I don’t know.
Brent sort of did a half-ass job.
On what? On net new– On the closures.
On the other side, actually.
Oh, OK, on the publishing side, right.
I don’t know what he is so scared of.
You know, he’s been saying for the longest time that it freaks him out this idea of downloading in closures.
Really? You know.
Well, they now support it.
Did you see the post I pointed to? Yeah, of course I did.
But it wasn’t– you know, it wasn’t– He didn’t actually put it in .
He said, here’s how you do it.
Right, but why not put it in ? I don’t know.
It’s a lot easier for him to put it in.
It’s a lot easier for him to put it in than it is for you to hack it up with an Apple script.
Oh, just as in– He’s trying to avoid some kind of support issue.
Really? Well, I mean, you know, I don’t know.
It may be valid.
No, it’s not.
OK, can you just talk a little bit more into the mic, Dave, so we can just all hear you at home? It’s like totally right up to my mouth.
Can you just stick it in a little further? No.
[LAUGHTER] I’m going to get– anyway, so like I’m already saying politically incorrect things here, you know.
I didn’t even ask.
It’s OK.
Well, the other thing I wanted to say about Brent’s thing is why the hell doesn’t he give some credit to XMLRPC, you know, and to the MetaWeblog API , which made all of that stuff in MarsEdit possible.
I mean, this guy goes out of his way to make nice to the Adam people.
Why not go out of his way to be nice to the MetaWeblog API people? Oh, so you want– what you want is you want a credit line? Well, I’d love him to say that, hey, you know, the technology works.
These guys did a great job.
If it weren’t for what they had done, I wouldn’t be able to do this, you know.
And he’s out there taking the credit for it.
Everybody goes, well, Brent’s a great guy.
And Brent is a great guy.
Well, he’s a great integr ator.
It’s not– you know.
But he’s building on the work of other people.
And he has really gone out of his way to praise the Adam people.
And I don’t know why he doesn’t – now, you know, he likes to say he’s being fair , right? But no, it’s fair would be to say, I’m not really using any of the Adam guys stuff here.
But can I just ask, why do you care? Yeah, that’s why I keep sitting to myself.
Really? Why? I mean, let me give you a perfect example.
So all of a sudden, iPod takes off, right? And it’s great because I’m being credited on web blogs.
And being– let me hear me out for a second.
I’m being credited just about– I sure hope it’s recording my voice.
Ah-ha, now he’s getting ready to say something.
He wants everybody to hear.
Wait, no, of course, it’s got to be recording.
Do you think it might not be recording? Hold on, let me just check.
I want to make sure so that everyone can hear what I have to say, god damn it.
Hold on.
Well, while you were waiting , I’ll tell you why I care, OK? There’s first the irrational reasons, OK? Which unfortunately exist, OK? And then there are the rational reasons.
And the irrational ones is like you work your ass off, and you pay the price physically and lifestyle wise.
And then you sort of like– It’s working, by the way.
I’m sorry.
It’s working.
Sort of like people just say , hey, thanks.
That was good work.
No, I understand.
Let me just finish on my thought.
All right, go ahead.
Let me finish on my thought.
So, of course, and I get credited– into code even, I’m getting credited.
It’s fabulous.
I love it.
I’m not used to that, by the way, because usually it’s like the Adam Curry from VH1 thing that I just told you about, right? And that’s going to happen.
And these guys were well– their intentions were– I think were pretty good.
They actually were– you should listen to that.
When you hear the Gilmore Gang, you’ll understand what I’m saying.
And they really meant well.
But even that, it’s like, yeah, that bothers you.
But at the end of the day– [BURPING] You know? All right.
It’s like, you know, you can’t go– you– people either give you credit, you can’t say you owe me credit .
It just doesn’t work that way.
I didn’t say that.
Those are the words I said.
No, but you said– I wish that.
Yeah, I do.
And there’s the– OK, I was starting to say there’s the semi-irrational reasons for it, which I think are perfectly legitimate.
And then there are the rational reasons, which is that basically you get written out of the record, and then you can’t do it again.
In other words, every time you try to do something new, basically you face the same obstacles you face the first time you tried to do something new.
If you don’t get credit for your successes, then people will say, well, maybe this guy knows what he’s talking about because he did X, Y, and Z. And believe me, that happens all the time.
I mean, people come in and take credit for what I’ve done, and they get to do it again.
But I know.
And that’s– Well, I’ll give an example.
Very frustrating.
I’ll give an example.
Here’s something interesting.
So now forget it.
That’s too long of an example.
Look, I understand what you ’re saying.
Let me try to play it back to you.
Like, if you do it– if you try– when you start doing something like this, like MetaWebLog, API, or XMRPC, you say things like, well, I just want this stuff to happen.
I don’t really care how it happens.
So to be consistent with that, you’d have to say, well, I said it then.
I should mean it now, right? So I understand that.
And in fact, I see Brett saying some of those things, like where he says he really likes the guy who writes Ecto and this and that.
And I go to myself, boy, is he setting him up because these guys are going to nail his ass.
For what? Why? Because that’s what happened to me.
Basically, I said to some of these guys, oh, no one owns RSS.
You know what they heard? You know what they heard, Adam? Yeah, they heard I own RSS.
That’s what they heard.
Yeah, I know.
But that’s the way the human brain works, man.
That’s the way it works.
That’s what Brett’s walking around into.
So anyway, I think that– So what you should say– check this out.
Check this out.
You should say, I do not want any recognition.
I just don’t want it.
I don’t want the recognition because it’s just too much attention.
I don’t want it from people.
Please don’t do– stop doing that.
Stop giving me attention or recognition.
You know, I’m almost there.
Basically, what happened was after I got sick two years ago, I decided I’m not doing this stuff for anybody but myself anymore.
And I stopped releasing it.
I really did.
It was basically, I said, hard for these guys.
You said what? They don’t appreciate– so why am I working so hard for these guys? They don’t appreciate it.
They never say thank you.
They don’t give me credit for it.
And I said the hell with it.
I’m not going to do it anymore.
And I don’t.
I have a new content management system that I use.
I’m sorry.
I do it for myself.
And I’m happy with it.
And maybe I’ll share it with my friends.
But I’m not going to be– believe me, the world’s got to straighten this thing out.
It’s got to learn how to value generosity.
And I’ve had this talk with Lessig.
And Lessig is just getting me to get this, I think.
He sent me an email the other day.
He said, well, have you pat ented any of this stuff? Because we’re talking about here.
And I said, no, Larry, it’s against my religion.
And he basically came back and said, that’s a good answer.
But why was he asking? And that was good he was asking .
Dave, hold on.
Hold on.
Let’s just reconnect one second , because now you’re giving the robo-cop on me.
One second.
Yeah, OK.
All right.
So, Lessig.
Anyway, so they were talking about iPod or Bill Moore Gang.
Yeah, you got to hear it.
And it’s funny, because they tried to talk about Sun and their pay by the cycle hour offering.
Well, they kept drifting back to iPod.
And at the end of the show, they’re like, oh, we were really all over the map.
We were talking about so many different things.
Yeah, iPod-er.
It was great.
And then it was like– and they were trying to find it .
They’re all online.
You’ve got to listen to this.
And it’s like, iPod-er.
Doc Searle says, I can’t find it.
Just take me to Adam Curry’s web log.
And I said, no, no, it’s iPod- er. org.
. org.
They’re all trying . com.
Well, let me get my two cents in.
It’s one of the most successful development projects on the net in the last few years.
Really? Maybe the most acceptable.
Because what happens is these stupid mail lists get so bogged down with all these people who know better.
And they want to go back and redo– you had working five years ago.
And they are so persistent.
They have so much time.
They make the best out of it.
Did you see Steve Garfield’s contributions to the iPod-er dev list? No.
Oh, it’s great.
He’s a total user.
100% is great.
And he’s like, this shit’s– I don’t understand that it’s fucked up.
It’s downloading things it shouldn’t.
I don’t get it.
And people are all over trying to help him, setting them up, getting new releases out.
It’s beautiful.
But that’s the idea.
It’s supposed to be downloading shit all the time, right? Yeah.
But there was– one of the concerns that everyone had, of course, was you have these beautiful iPod-er set up with default feeds.
Or even if you just add a new feed, if someone’s like Radio User Land, I think my default is 25 items in an RSS feed, times 15 to 30 megs.
So what we’ve come up with now is it’s configurable.
But the default is it downloads the last three items.
And then on the next run, it’ll download the three before that.
And the next run, the three before that, until it’s saturated.
Which is– Maybe it shouldn’t download all the things in the feed.
Maybe it should only start downloading with things that are new after you’ve subscribed.
Well, I think that everyone’s putting the options in and the preferences.
But the question is, what is the default? Yeah.
What’s the default going to be? The default is all that matters here.
Yeah, exactly.
Because first of all, you’re controlling first time behavior .
And that’s what we’re screwing up right now.
We’re still screwing that up a little bit right now.
So we decided to call it mobile blogging and get inside step all the his sy fitting.
And that seems like a fair– Not.
Like a good– Yeah.
Did you see that mobile blog ging video clip I posted today? You’re gone again.
Really? This sucks.
Wait, you’re back now.
See, the thing was– Did you see the mobile blogging video clip I posted today? I pointed to it? No.
Oh, it’s very cool.
It’s two guys that are driving from LA to New York in a convertible.
And they had a camera on the back of the car.
And they did a stop frame.
So in four minutes, you travel with them from LA to New York.
It’s beautiful.
I think I have seen that.
But it would be worth seeing.
Yeah, that is beautiful.
I’ve wanted that.
It’s really nice.
My car was traveling across country.
Well, this is exactly what they did.
Hold on.
I’ve got to turn your volume up a little bit.
How’s that? Well, I don’t think Skype is the answer out of my question.
No, it’s– and I was just about to say, because what Skype does very well is the voice quality.
But when it comes to keeping the connection, we’ve had much better success with the iChat and AIM.
People told me that I was breaking up on iChat, though.
iChat, AIM.
But they weren’t complaining that much.
They were sort of saying it kind of worked.
You know what it is? At the end of the day, when you ’re listening to AM radio, you get used to it.
Well, what we need is we need somebody who does voiceover IP.
They can work with us.
And because I think we have enough hardware here.
We have– both have reasonably good internet connections, right? Yeah.
Well, here’s the next thing.
The next application I’ve been dicking around with, which may give us better results, is– you familiar with the Free World Dial-up? You ever heard of that? No.
Do you remember Jeff Pulver? You’ve probably seen his name around.
Oh, he was– I know who he was, the supernova guy.
Could be.
He was the guy– that was the company that sponsored Supernova.
Yeah, he’s been around for a long time.
Is that right? Yeah, I think so.
So he started Free World Dial- up, which is essentially a voiceover IP network.
And you can connect to it for free.
You can download the basic software for free.
And what they’re going to be offering is what everyone else is going to be offering, or is offering, is numbers you can rent, virtual numbers, so someone can dial a New York number and get your connection.
But also point to point, so why don’t you download from FreeWorldDial-up. com? Hold on.
Let me go there.
Yeah, you want to download the X10 client.
It comes pre-configured.
You have to register.
That’s not a big deal.
It’s FreeWorldDial-up.
Yeah, this is good.
Let’s just do the sit-down fly.
Well, I don’t want to try to download it while we’re on Skype.
Is that a buzz? Come on, pussy.
Well, that’ll screw up Skype.
Screw up Skype.
Skype is screwed up enough.
OK, all right, all right.
Here we go.
I mean, I guess it’s going to make any difference.
My account– well, you’re not going to have to put this stinking microphone down now, you know? If I have to create an account.
Oh, damn.
Well, benefits.
I don’t know what to do.
Well, you aren’t going to be able to hear me.
That’s for sure.
Hold on.
Oh, wait.
I hear there’s a button that says get FWD.
That must be it, right? I don’t know.
That’s good marketing if it works.
Yeah, get FWD phone.
Now, you want to– It’s pre-configured.
I don’t really want to touch it .
No, no, no, no.
You just want the free X10 client.
And you have to sign up.
Well, excuse me.
Where the fuck would that be? Sorry.
I’ve been watching the Sopranos too much.
Yeah, really? Where the fuck would that be? Hold on.
Let me see.
Free world.
So I hear they were talking about iPod Run, IT conversations.
No kidding.
Who was doing the talking? That’s what I wanted to know.
Steve actually started it off.
Yeah, he’s got to have major wood about iPod.
Yeah, he– he– he scyped me the other day, and I wasn’t around.
And I scyped him back, although it said it was online.
It either didn’t go through or it didn’t answer.
And he said at the end of the show that next week they were going to talk about iPod or iPod platform, et cetera.
So I was hoping that he was calling to have me on the show.
That’d be cool.
So if I go to– That would be sort of like everything in one.
That would be daily source code and IT conversations.
That would be what we would call an integrated app.
Download it now.
Use it today.
Did that not catch your eye, Dave? Sorry.
Right in the middle of the page .
Oh, there it is.
That big blob of purple.
Because excuse me, they have lots of crap like that on it.
This is one of those pages where the whole different departments got the loop.
And though we need a big purple blob here.
It’s the purple download blob.
There are about 18 of them on the damn page.
OK, so FWD IP phone light, is that it? Which one do I want? Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Excuse me, you know I’m Windows , right? I’m not Mac.
Yeah, it does Windows.
So I want the FWD one.
That’s the first one in the list.
That’s what you always get.
Let me just see.
The IP phone light.
No, no, no, hold on, hold on.
You want the FWD X light.
X light.
Good thing I asked.
Yeah, so then we’ll have the same client.
Oh, this will be interesting.
All right, I’m running it.
Oh, wow, that was quick.
Did you have an account? No.
Well, it won’t work without an account.
I’m just doing what you told me to.
I told you to sign up.
You did not.
Yeah, then you said I’ll need two hands to do that.
Stop downloading porn.
Wait, you’re sending me the porn.
Get with the program, will you? Get with the program.
I’m watching Katie Wallace on CNN.
That’s porn.
Not really.
You know what really sucks? You know what sucks about– I’m using the– Katie Wallace? No.
About– Actually, your name is Kelly Wallace, though.
Audio hijack pro that I’m using to record.
So it can record from any application, but only if that application is actually sending audio data.
And so Skype, whenever you– Homeless, whenever you’re quiet like you are right now, then it basically is not sending out any audio.
And just for a split second, if it doesn’t receive the– it should have like a time gate on it.
For a split second, if the audio is gone, then basically the connection shuts down.
And my mic channel still stays active.
But then for some reason, it goes into– it just did it.
It goes into delay mode.
Then I hear myself delayed by about half a second on my headphones.
And I have to stop the mic and start it again.
It’s very irritating.
Hey, that sucks.
Yeah, it’s no good.
You know, when Dr. Dave was talking on your show yesterday, you could hear that the software he was using was dropping out the blank periods.
Oh, well, he wasn’t using–

what he did is he pre-recorded
I know who Dr. Dave is.
This is one of these guys, and
I love him.
You know, he’s probably–
well, I don’t want to guess his
Doesn’t matter.
He sits at home.
He’s got a studio.
He’s got an ISDN box.
And ad companies, movie
companies, you know,
people call him up.
And they say, OK.
And he’s just like the Jerry Se
infeld trailer for his movie.
And the guy goes, in a world
where women wear comfortable
shoes and aren’t lesbians.
That kind of stuff.
And I’m sure that he recorded
his bit and then edited it.
Because I heard some–
either he edited it by hand or,
indeed, he had a silent stri
just mush it all together.
You could hear it.
It was awful.
There was the big radio sound.
It was beautiful.
Really, it is the big radio
It’s kind of like at the end of
the car commercials
where they tell you all the
different little legalities.
Your results may vary due to
road and weather conditions.
But we’re prohibited by law.
That’s the slow version.
So have you registered yet?
I only have one hand here.
Can I register?
I don’t even know where to
Oh, man.
Hold on.
I said, look for the blob.
I’m looking.
I’m looking.
Hold on.
Oh, it’s a little deep in.
Let’s see.
This is stupid.
Gotten in Berber?
That was funny.
That was the marketing
Get FWD.
That’s what I clicked on.
Oh, sign up.
That’s a sign up.
Sign up.
All right.
Step one is purchase pre-config
ured hardware
or download, blah, blah, blah.
Got that.
Got that.
OK, great.
Plug in your phone to install
your software.
And you did that?
I thought you installed it.
I thought it was running.
Oh, whoa.
Gee, you’ll install this free
world dial-up crap
from unknown IP.
Excuse me.
I’m busy accepting the
I’ll call you back.
I read the whole thing.
Excuse me.
To accept this agreement.
OK, this is great.
It says, welcome to the X-Bike
free world dial-up,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah,
OK, thanks.
Yo, buddy.
Well, that was fun.
For you.
That was about 45 minutes of d
icking around.
My side works.
How do you know yours works?
Oh, because there’s a whole
bunch of numbers you can call.
You can call service numbers.
And it’ll give you the weather
and the time.
And it has a voice-activated
And there’s a callback and an
echo check.
And all kinds of great stuff.
So did you have to go through
all this shit
that I had to go through?
Even worse.
It’s so fucking stupid.
I mean–
Why do they do this this way?
Why don’t they test it with
human beings?
Well, I think it–
well, the Windows version that
you downloaded,
it comes preconfigured.
And that’s right, because you
had all the information already
stored in there, right?
Yeah, but it was wrong.
What do you mean it was wrong?
It didn’t work.
Well, OK.
But that doesn’t mean that the
information was wrong.
Because I’m using the same
No, it doesn’t.
Your setup is different from
what they expect.
That’s probably what it is.
I have a clue for you, though.
Skype worked the first time.
No problem there.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
So somebody figured it out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Isn’t it funny how that works?
I mean, you know, I don’t know.
It’s really too bad, because
the X10 client–
now, of course, we don’t know
how it sounds,
but it keeps the Audio Hijack
Pro running.
Hold on.
It keeps it running.
The minute you activate it,
then it just
keeps its audio channels open.
It doesn’t cut off, so I don’t
get that crappy delay.
So it’d be nice if we could–
Yeah, it’d be really nice if we
So it’s better technology, then
No, no.
I wouldn’t say that at all.
I haven’t heard the voice
quality yet.
And so far, the systems, which
are all automated,
that I’ve called, which are
computer voices,
I was not blown away by.
Let me just see–
Now you’re slowing down again.
You’re talking like you’re
going through–
no, you’re better now.
What were you saying about
Oh, that’s right.
Oops, oops, oops.
It’s only 10. 15 in the morning,
and I’m burned out too.
Chris, I hate farting around
with software out of my–
I’ve spent a whole life.
I gave my whole life for this.
I know.
All I want is it to work.
But it’ll be so worth it if we
can get it to work.
All right.
Well, next time, we’ll figure
this one out.
OK, so what are we going to do?
I wait–
Yeah, go ahead.
Well, I was going to say, what
are we going to do?
We’re going to try and do a
trade secrets during the VP
Well, I think we better do
another dry run, OK,
like this one, because just to
see if–
Well, Skype is clearly not the
because the quality is just–
Well, here’s the deal.
–it drops out.
I’ve got to talk– first of all
, you’ve
got to get me a description for
your blogger concession.
Yeah, yeah, I told you this
I promised you this weekend.
Uh-huh, yeah.
Well, that means–
Yeah, well, there’s a weekend
Look, I can even go nine hours
into Monday
and still get it to you by the
All right, OK.
I got to get the violin out.
Like, running conferences–
when I was at the Scobals the
other night,
these are both ex-conference gi
Scobals had a whole career
doing this.
And I said, there’s nothing you
can do to get people to sort
of like realize that there’s
only one person managing
this whole stinking conference.
And you know–
They’ll never realize it, of
course not.
No, but it’s the point is it’s
another one of those deals
where I don’t think I’m doing
this again.
Because when they say, hey, you
want to do a conference,
all I remember is the good shit
You know what I mean?
Hey, hold on.
Hold on.
I just got–
What does error 407 mean?
That’s what you were getting,
This isn’t–
Oh, yeah.
It’s under the troubleshooting
This is an authentication error
This occurs most often when
your password
in your phone configuration
does not match the only–
the one currently assigned to
the FWD number.
You must use the password you
’ve chosen for your FWD account.
Note that if you change your
through the My Account section
of the free roll dial-up
you must blah, blah, blah, blah
, blah, blah.
So maybe you typed your
password in.
Oh, I didn’t change my password
Maybe– but yet you typed it
into the phone, right?
Something like that.
How do I change my password?
I guess it’s right here.
Hold on.
We don’t want to change it.
You want to make sure that–
Well, I remember when I typed.
I mean, it’s not like it’s–
you know how it works, right?
I gave these guys my low
security password, right?
The one that basically
everybody has.
That’s right.
I might as well just say what
it is, right?
Because everybody listening to
this, I haven’t–
No, don’t do that.
Don’t do that.
Everyone’s diving into their
Manila websites.
What’s Dave’s password?
That would be cool.
They can hijack your phone
Well, no, then Manila would
just turn into a wiki.
That’s awesome.
Oh, exactly.
It’s the wikified version.
Oh, wow.
That would be great, wouldn’t
I can’t find– listen, this
user interface is so good.
You like it?
I hate it.
No, I’m only kidding.
Oh, OK.
It’s so phone-like that I can’t
find it.
They make– even phones aren’t
this difficult to operate.
Those are pretty bad.
This is really horrible.
I mean, it looks just like a
phone with a metal brush.
Oops, they go like that mic.
And by the way, that’s why I
spent $3,000 on a great laptop.
On a what?
On a laptop so I could get a
cell phone.
But it’s free.
Once it works, it’s free, Dave.
Oh, free.
Oh, yeah.
As in beer.
Oh, cool.
Well, so did you do your
I have not found a place to put
my password.
OK, it’s on– you got–
Shit, I hate this.
Skype sucks.
I totally know how to get to
the menu.
I got the menus down.
Right, under user settings–
system settings.
System settings.
System settings.
System settings.
That way.
Very nice.
No, I’m sorry.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
wrong, wrong.
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, b
ing, bing.
Your time is up.
Shut up.
The correct answer is–
Be quiet, Dave.
Hold on.
Be quiet, Dave.
Tell her to shut up.
I’m not going to say that to my
Oh, OK.
You’re a horrible man.
Oh, yeah.
You’re a childless man.
I can tell.
Oh, god.
What, what, Christina?
She said I should shut the fuck
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, man, this is–
you’re like Uncle Dave, and you
’re like Uncle Ernie from Tommy.
Now, where the fuck is the–
here, my sip username, we got
all that.
Where’s the goddamn password?
Yeah, this is what I–
This is crazy.
So much for Uncle Ernie, right?
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
This is nuts.
Yeah, tell me about it.
Hold on.
Now, where–
I don’t think you can change
your password.
Yes, you can.
I’ve done it.
I think once set, you are like
No, no.
No, don’t tell me that.
I don’t think you get to change
No, that’s crap.
That’s horse crap.
Hold on.
Maybe the phone book.
Maybe we have to go to the
phone book.
Oh, man.
I hope Jeff Paulver hears this.
I mean, we’re smart guys, right
Oh, yeah.
I don’t feel so smart right now
Call settings.
It makes me feel– this is my
favorite thing about software.
But yeah.
When I feel too smart, I just
launch some software
and I feel stupid right away.
This is horrible.
It’s really good.
I understand.
Proxy default.
Oh, registering.
Hold on.
Oh, no.
Can you hear that?
Can you hear that?
I heard it work.
Did it work?
I don’t know.
You said proxy registering.
Well, I hit something.
What’s your number?
What’s your number?
The same difference.
Same difference.
What’s your number?
Hold on.
Number is 495297.
It’s not going to work.
Call up Kevin Werbach.
He works for the Paulver guy.
He does– they did the Super
nova Conference.
It was Paulver Communications.
Jeff Paulver, right?
Yeah, right.
OK, you’re still not on– wait
a minute.
Did you find your password?
A whole lot.
What I did was–
This is going to piss me off.
Yeah, what’d you do?
What I did was–
to the green phone icon.
And right clicked on it.
Proxy’s turned on.
Maybe I want proxy turned on.
I don’t know.
But do I have that?
Let me see if I even have that.
No, proxy’s still turned on no
matter what.
I don’t know.
That’s dial tone.
Audio tuning wizard.
Welcome to–
No, you don’t want that.
Oh, diagnostic log.
Where is that?
Oh, I have that.
If I right click under the
green dial button–
oh, shit.
Did I get–
Audio tuning wizard, diagnostic
I don’t see anything like that.
Well, that’s not where you want
to be.
You want to be in your menu–
now this is so fucking crazy.
I was here.
I did this.
How come I can’t find the–
man, my Mac is freaking out too
Oh, I have a little thing here
that says AC.
Does that– wouldn’t be your
initials, would it?
Yeah, what’s it for?
Does it say that I called you?
No, it’s just a black and–
it’s flashing red, AC.
So you know there’s another
hurricane going to Florida.
I heard about that.
There’s already all kinds of R
SS feeds that track it.
I got to post that.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, so what you just didn’t
hear was a whole bunch of crap.
Where it didn’t work.
And it didn’t work.
It was like an–
what was it, an hour and a half
of fucking crap.
All right.
I had nothing better to do,
like get a release–
Get a–
Nothing, nothing at all
I’m going to leave it running
though, Dave,
because I know that when you
on your lunch break, you’re
going to immediately dive into
Here’s how it works.
You know how you do a crossword
and you go away from it, and
you come back,
and you find five different
moves that you just
didn’t see before?
That’s what this is like.
All right, Adam, it was a
pleasure talking with you as
Well, likewise.
It was this very ad hoc.
But let’s see if we can get
something working
with that X10 phone.
If it does, otherwise I want to
do the–
you said it was tomorrow night?
No, when was it?
Monday night?
It’s tomorrow night.
We’ll check it out.
No, it’s definitely not going
to be Monday night.
It’ll be tomorrow night,
I mean, I’ll check it out.
But yeah, yeah.
It’ll be– so that’ll be Monday
morning for me,
so we’ve got to kind of figure
out what the time is.
Right, like in the middle of
the night for you.
Or early morning.
It’ll probably be 3 PM here.
We’ll find out.
6 will be midnight my time.
That’ll be– no, it’s all due.
But hey, for in the name of
science, I’m happy to do this.
You’re a scientist, Adam.
That’s why I like you.
You’re a scientist.
You have a PhD, right, in
Hey, I’m going to hit the tune.
Let’s get the fuck out of here.
OK, I’m out of here.
I’ll see you, Dave.
It’s trade and it ain’t secrets
Trade secrets.
Trade secrets.
These heads will finally keep
this trade secret.
Trade secrets.
You don’t need–