Is it comedy or news?

Adam and I meet over the Internet to discuss 1 hour 9 minutes worth of michegas that I wish I could remember. Steve Gillmor says it’s comedy. Let’s hope so!

Hey, good afternoon, good morning, or good evening, depending on where you are.
Welcome to Trade Secrets.
I’m Adam Curry in Belgium at the Castle.
Dave Weiner at 5 a. m. in Seattle.
You’re such a trooper, Dave.
You’re such a man.
I hardly even get a chance to open my eyes and Adam from the line.
Hey, Dave, let’s do a trade secrets.
Yeah, well, it’s so cool because… Alright, let’s do it.
Let’s do it.
You gotta do it.
The thing is, we talk and then we jabber a little bit and then we’re done.
And then it’s like, “Wanna do a show?” No, I got nothing left to say.
So I got to catch up early.
Yeah, I told you, you know, yeah.
Well, it’s good to do one.
We haven’t done a trade secrets since podcasting became all the rage.
Right, which was last week.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure.
It’s been amazing.
How was your trip? You got back from San Francisco yesterday? Yeah, it was really an easy trip.
I found a hotel in just the perfect location.
It’s easy into San Francisco, easy down to the peninsula so I can get to Palo Alto.
And I spent a lot of time at Stanford working out the details.
I got a whole bunch of things settled for BloggerCon 3, which is on, as you know, November 6th.
Yeah.
We found room for everybody who was on the waitlist.
Really? That’s cool.
Yeah, it juggled a lot of things.
Well, I kind of figured at some point that when the registration slowed down, that, you know, when they were really raging, I had to put the wait list on because I didn’t know how high it was going to go.
And we had to leave room for Stanford people because one of their goals was that they be participating in BloggerCon.
So all things put together, it was said, “Okay, let’s cut it off at 250 because we know we can do that. " That was a lot bigger than 250 to me.
We’re officially at 421 right now.
And that’s pushing it because at the same time we’re 421, we ’re not that high in terms of dollars.
And we’re going to need to feed people and provide them refresh ments and mundane stuff like we have to pay Stanford to clean the rooms and we have to get Wi-Fi, right? Yeah, we’ve got to get Wi-Fi.
And we have a live conference without Wi-Fi.
And the webcast, which you’ll be very interested to know, we probably talk about that actually.
Well, we haven’t talked about the fact that Doug Kaye has generously offered to take care of most of it.
Well, it turns out that I don’t think that’s the way it’s actually going to work.
Oh, well, this is news.
You better tell me what’s happening then.
Well, it’s interesting.
I mean, I talked with Doug before we went.
Basically Doug was on the speakerphone at the meeting at Stanford.
So I was there with John Harrison, who is the AV guy at Stanford, and Lauren Gelman, who is with their institute for the Internet and Society, which is the Stanford counterpart to Berkman Center.
And there, Lauren is like the Stanford person who I’m working with on this conference.
And so Doug has a stick that really works.
Doug’s IT conversations, coming out the other end of Doug’s work is going to be like one beautiful, in every regard, a beautiful product, podcast, audio, whatever you want to call it.
Singin’ a Bob.
And MP3 in lots of different formats, and it’s going to stream and whatever.
However, only one of his, he’s only going to livestream one of the three concurrent sessions.
So that’s problem number one, or opportunity number one.
But all the sessions would be recorded, right? Pardon me? All the sessions would be recorded though.
All the sessions would be recorded, but I don’t see, you know, if we can do it, I don’t see why not webcast all the sessions too.
If we can do that.
And I want to try to do that.
Okay.
Last time we had a deal with AdvanceNet with Jeff Jarvis, and they had huge capacity for webcasting.
And, you know, at the very last minute we thought, okay, let’s ask Jeff Jarvis.
And Jeff said, yeah, and they helped us out.
And we were doing, like, you know, huge amounts of web casting through his network.
So that was good.
And they also, it was really interesting, because I had been trying to explain to Doug about how the hobbyist side of this is so important, you know, that here we are, we’re doing podcasting.
And, you know, what is podcast ing? But amateur radio, right? And it’s very much like blog ging is amateur journalism, right? Right on.
And so, but, but Doug thinks in terms of professional and he thinks that, that what he’s doing is enough and some sense it is enough, but it’s not for me.
I want to get this thing wide open for anybody, for any, for you and for any of your podcast ing.
We’re going to have a lot of AV geeks there.
No shit.
Because of your podcast.
No shit.
Right.
And I’m going to tell them that , hey, you know, well Doug’s doing a professional job and you know, therefore, blah, blah, blah, you know, because that’s, you know, they’re going to go, well, Dave, what happened to the blogging religion here? And I’m going to go, hmm, good point.
So, and what really convinced me of this was that, that the Stanford people asked me about that after the meeting was over .
It says, well, what about the random people who want to, you know, record this or whatever? And I said, right on.
Exactly.
And that’s the, that’s where, why holding these conferences at universities is such a good thing to do because universities think that way.
They, they’re not looking necessarily for the maximum polish.
And especially at a place like, you know, Stanford Law School and at Berkman Center.
It’s a, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s the internet for the people, basically.
So we’re going to, we’re going to try to come up with something where, where not only does Doug record and do his usual very great job, but then it’s also going to be wide open.
There’ll be a way for anybody to tap into the audio out in all three rooms.
Really? They’ll just have to, yeah, well, that’s what we want to do .
And they just have to work with us in advance.
That’s going to be the requirement.
Okay.
So how do people get in touch with you? If they want to, if they want to help out and get in touch in advance? I’d like them to get in touch with you.
And then you tell me what your people, then you tell me what they need.
I need more email.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
I was thinking about you, right ? I think Adam is getting enough email.
I don’t get enough, the new podcast, please add me to the directory emails.
Adam, if you keep, if you start whining, they’re going to stop sending it to you.
That’s a little secret.
You have to say you love it.
I do.
I love it.
I love it.
I fucking love it.
Now I got four other people already working on the directory with me.
They’re making their OPML branches and it’s working.
So I’m offloading quickly.
That’s on my list totally.
I was listening to that on the plane from San Francisco to Seattle last night.
And I was so proud of you Adam that you totally understand and can explain the whole concept of these included directories.
Well that’s my dream.
Now that I’m actually doing it, I understand it and it’s so simple.
It’s still a little, unless you ’re using Radio User Land, I haven’t really come across a tool that does it exactly right that really exports OPML perfectly.
That leads me right into my next time on my list.
Oh wait, don’t tell me I sagged into something for you.
Damn.
Totally, perfectly.
It couldn’t be better.
All right.
Hit me back.
It really couldn’t be better.
Yeah, I was listening to your daily source code last night as I was staying on the plane and heard you go into the story of OPML.
But a lot of people don’t know.
OPML is a very popular format in RSS aggregators.
Because in Radio we chose to use that as our way of listing sets of feeds.
And Radio was pretty influential in its early days.
So basically everybody did it the same way.
But what people don’t know is that as you were so well telling them is that OPML is actually a very rich format which can do more than that.
And it can do nested director ies and it can do this thing called inclusion.
And it’s also the underlying format of the radio outliner.
And here’s the deal Adam.
We open sourced that code.
Oh, okay.
That’s all part of Frontier.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, Radio builds out of Front ier.
I mean that’s a little secret basically.
There’s no such thing.
There’s no separate code base for Radio.
All of the C source code for Radio was also released as open source.
And that includes the outliner.
It includes all the OPML code.
It includes a complete TCP stack including HTTP.
So that moving these outlines around is something that and providing a user interface for editing them is something that Radio does so natively that it’s hard to stop it from doing it basically.
So the same kind of thing could be done with that that was done with the iPodder.
We could get a project going to create the easiest to use out liner out of the code base that’s there.
And it would be Windows and Mac and could of course be ported to any platform including Linux.
And we would have the bootstrap for something that will be so incredible when it actually works.
In other words, this can go in so far beyond, I mean I don’t want to say because podcasting is so incredible, but it can go beyond podcasting and into a whole sort of knowledge tree for the universe.
Well, it’s really exciting because when you start a directory and I’ve started many directories and then people send you links, it becomes a real drag to maintain it.
If people send you an addition and it’s not up in the same day , people get bored, then it’s just not alive.
And by this delegation which is also decentralization and gives no one any real power, certainly not any centralized power, but only over whatever tree they’re working on, just the offload and you can see the possibilities immediately.
Immediately you say, “Oh, well duh, of course this is how this is supposed to work. " I mean it’s so simple, it really is.
Well, it’s the outline equivalent of a link and outlines, that’s all we do is follow the grain of the outline and say, " Okay, what would a link look like in this space?” If you go back to the outline as we did in the 80s, this would be the equivalent of what we call cloning so that an item and all of its descendants can appear in as many places as you want to.
They also call them file ali ases in the Macintosh and they call them shortcuts and windows .
So it’s the concept of a pointer.
It’s a computer science thing that they always seem to have mystical powers when you use them and this is no exception.
Is that like a sin link as well ? Pardon me? Is that like a sin link? I don’t know what a sin link is .
Oh, okay, that’s in Unix where you can say, “Okay, this file path, it’s a symbolic link.
It’s not real, but if you point to it, it’ll take you to the real file. " Is that the same thing? Yeah, that sounds totally like it.
Okay, got it.
Yeah, you see them everywhere in the user talk scripting language.
It’s the address symbol generator.
So pointers are like major big deal, but having them in an interactive product like an out liner where the outliner then can try expanding one of these things when you open it up in your outliner.
Yeah, it’s cool.
Try expanding one of your links and see what happens.
Yeah, it’s like the outliner continues.
Yeah, it just keeps going.
You can go on as many levels deep as you want.
Now here’s something else that people might not know is that, “Okay, Adam, you can include their OPML in your directory and that will have the effect of including their directory in yours, but they can also include your directory in theirs. " Right.
So that if they think they have , you know, this is where the ego starts coming in, right? And so people go, “Well, geez, I’m not going to be subordinate to Adam.
You know, every bit as good as Adam and unfortunately or fortunately or whatever, that happens a lot in the computer business. " That’s also true.
Yeah, well, it’s true, but sometimes spalling your pride is a good thing to do so that it’s for the greater good.
But okay, so even if that isn’t going to happen, then what can happen is if you’ve got the master directory for the pod space, then include, they can include your directory in theirs because you have an OPML rendition of yours.
And when they do that, when they do that, they will also be including everything that you included.
So there’s nobody, it’s just like saying nobody has the top homepage on the web, right? Nobody has the top homepage directory and this is a major, major thing because if this thing really catches on, then we can get directories on every subject and we can also get two or three directories on every subject.
Yeah, it’s amazing this really hasn’t happened for web logs, you know, that people who have web logs should have director ies.
You know what, it was the order in which things happened actually was what made it not happen for web logs because before we had any idea, this idea post-st ates web logs, this outline directory stuff came after web logs.
Right.
And then at the time it came online, there were already tens of thousands of blogs and so people had learned to accept complete chaos, okay, then Google had come along and had been doing a pretty good job of indexing them.
And there were directories like Yahoo and Google has a directory and all kinds of directories with them.
I presume lots of paid employees.
Yeah, and lots of politics.
And politics, yeah.
Yeah, lots of politics in there .
But what was I going to say? Yeah, it could go a lot further than simply just for podcasting , it could be for everything.
Because you have three versions .
You being the daddy of the outline, I heard you say it about ten minutes ago, this must be like the ultimate dream to have one big outline traversing the entire universe.
Yeah.
Well, we called it the world outline.
I mean that was when we first put all this together, right? It was like the worldwide web and then there’s a world outline.
So in a sense there’s one outline but there are an infinite number of ways of picking it up.
And yeah, you know, to talk about Frontier being my life’s work, that’s actually not true.
If this thing happens, then I’m going to hang them up, boy.
I haven’t got another idea in me like this one.
Well, it’s funny because if you look at podcasting, which of course is built on RSS, which is at least a corner of your life ’s work and what’s happening with the directory now, it seems like it’s exploding and I ’m just sitting here waiting and I’ve even seen people write about it.
Okay, the hype will be over in three weeks and I’m just going by bandwidth consumption.
Let’s just make that an easy one.
I know what you’re going to say .
So I’ll just tell you how much I’m pushing out per day.
It is now up to 37 gigabits a day and I’m still doing the same amount of shows.
So of course you’re supposed to say, “Hey, we need BitTorrent. " I hope Stu’s right.
You can catch my gear.
Hey, Dave, I got some listener feedback here.
A message for you actually.
Oh yeah? Yeah, hold on.
I’ll play it for you.
Okay.
Hi Dave.
This is Aldo Costaneda from Med field, Massachusetts and I’m sending this because I wanted to reply in a way to Dave Weiner’s comments that you had on your show the other day about a link being one of the fundamental components of the web.
It got me thinking and I guess I’ve been thinking about this before.
I heard that really one of the kind of defining characteristics that perhaps we don’t think about.
Perhaps this is something that the community out there that’s particularly the open source community thinks about a lot, but is that the web provides an incredibly efficient way to measure ideas, to measure the value of ideas very early before without requiring huge capital investment.
I think this notion really, if it hasn’t been discussed much, is one that’s really worthy of focus and discussion because I think it has huge implications particularly for those people that are developing just for the love of it, the iPod community in essence, in that if the community can harness the value of an idea or can measure the value of an idea really early on and can measure that throughout the life of an idea, then I think that that can give those people that devote themselves to it a lot of freedom in terms of finding interesting ways to get financing basically, to get paid for what they do without at the same time having to give up the freedom in which they do it.
They don’t have to work for a corporation.
Things like that.
That’s the core concept.
I guess what I want to do is put that concept forward and see if there’s interest in really trying to understand it or to find out if it’s already something that’s been thought about and dismissed and just put it out there.
My email address is AldoALDO@ theworld. com.
If this ever gets out to your community and there’s an interest in researching it more , it’s something that I’d actually really like to dedicate some time to research because I think it could have really fundamental impact on the way we view open source and distributed development and all those things.
Thanks a lot.
Could you hear that, Dave? Yeah, I heard the whole thing.
I think that I think it’s right .
I’m not sure that it can generate financing, but there’s a reason why the web attracted all the hippies.
As he’s lighting up one guy at a time, this is what we don’t talk about, but let’s talk about it anyway.
Engadget was reviewing trade secrets.
I thought they’re doing a great job and support what they’re doing.
I’m a big fan of Engadget.
They said that basically this is the best form of radio because Adam’s always doing bomb hits on the radio.
So are you, I heard.
They kind of said, “I’m doing it too, but I want to get that really clear.
I’m not. " You wish.
When I live in a country where you go to jail for that shit, the next thing I don’t want to hear is the DEA knocking down my door going, “Dave, what are you doing?” Dave’s not here, man.
Dave’s not here.
Anyway, to go back with what was his name? Aldo.
Castaneda.
Aldo Castaneda.
Yeah.
I mean, the web was about dis intermediation or the internet is about disintermediation, which means getting rid of the intermediaries.
Not that we didn’t need intermediaries because we did.
In the era of centralization, it was all about intermediaries .
The big TV networks and radio networks.
Where do you get your news from ? The big airlines.
Everything had to be big in order for everybody to have it.
The internet says the information doesn’t have to be like that.
I don’t have to be big in order for anybody to have the information that I produce.
So as a result, for the first 10 years, which is really about where we’re at now, first 10 years of the web, we were focusing on text because the pipes were pretty narrow.
And then the tools, the content development tools, the editing tools, all the stuff that we’re using now, while it isn’t new, it got really affordable.
I tell people this all the time , Dave.
I invented the $40,000 website.
That was peanuts.
Yeah.
Why? Because it was people power.
People were doing it by hand and writing it in Notepad and VI.
Now the $40 tool literally can do the same, if not better.
Right.
And so money now is, while it is still an object, it’s less of an object.
And that means that we can now try to do radio.
And Adam, we’ve been waiting, trying to get this to bootstrap .
I did a project last year with Chris Leiden, who was one of my colleagues at Berkman Center.
And Chris did a series of interviews with bloggers and luminaries.
There’s great stuff.
And we produced an RSS 2. 0 feed with enclosures.
And some people listen to it, but it wasn’t like daily source code.
And it didn’t take off like Dave Schlescher’s stuff or any of the things that we’re seeing .
It may be that it wasn’t a critical master, or maybe the time wasn’t right.
No, it didn’t.
There was no iPodder.
There was no iPodder.
And I think Chris Leiden could do a great job now if he would continue to release stuff on his RSS feed.
I think that’s the only thing that didn’t happen, Dave.
Is that right? I think it was more than that.
I think the iPodder was instrumental, but I think you doing one every day made a very big difference.
Are you there? Yeah, hold on.
My battery just died.
Talk amongst yourselves for a second.
I just got to– Hold on a second.
Let me grab my mic.
I want to move.
I got it.
I got it.
Yeah, I should have replaced it before I– Okay, maybe I should play some music while Adam is out farting around.
I happen to have something– I think I have something queued up here.
This one podcasting is all about.
Don’t tell Adam that I did this .
What did you do? I did it.
Don’t tell Adam.
I never got it.
I’m not– I just become my favorite song.
I love that one so much.
Are you back? I think Adam may have turned this thing off.
Anyone there? No, hold on.
I’m here.
I’m here.
Were we recording? Yeah, it was funny.
I thought you must have turned us off.
Hold on.
I just got to replace the battery in my transmitter.
Hold on.
How cool was that? I just got to hold on while he used the battery in his transmitter.
I’m back.
Yeah, Doug Kay is going to interview me at 4 o’clock my time, so I had bought new batteries.
Well, ask him not to listen to trade secrets anymore.
Oh, shit.
Just hit my head on the lamp.
All right.
Now, wait a minute.
Oops.
I was going to say– Oh, no.
I was– You know what happened, Dave? This morning, I was up early because I was interviewed by the Australian Broadcast Corporation.
Or is it company? You’re such a media whore, Adam .
How do you do that, Adam? I am.
I’m bending over and saying, come on, are you Aussie? I pot me here, baby.
So I was looking over the iPot ter. org site.
I did something really cool.
I actually rewrote history.
There’s a section there that is called the History Page.
And it was kind of like just a running ramble of thoughts.
And I’ve been telling the story so often for the past week in interviews that I decided, let me just write down that story because that’s the story.
And I could embellish a little bit more.
But you should look at it because I went back and I traced the web logs.
I traced the web log postings.
I traced everything that happened.
And it was– And I actually– And I wrote about this.
I said, there’s a couple things I did because I knew that I really wanted this thing, this iPodder.
And I wasn’t doing daily source code until I built iPodder.
And in fact, the name daily source code at the time was chosen specifically to appeal to developers.
That makes sense, right? And so I released the iPodder script.
And then I actually blogged this.
I said, hey, I’m just going to produce this every single day so you all have something– y’all– so y’all have something to work with.
They talk like that in the Netherlands.
They try– No, that’s how developers talk.
They all talk y’all.
Y’all.
So that’s how it happened, Dave .
And that was the difference, really.
I mean, that’s what it was.
It was just the people who looked at the script and said, oh, that’s interesting.
I can do that better.
That’s what it was.
And I– I’ll put a link to that .
Yeah, did you see the history page? I do.
I think I represented your contributions correctly, if not let me know.
Yeah, I’m literally trying to take the backseat here because, you know, it’s– you’re doing – I mean, I don’t want to stroke you too much, but you’re doing such a good job here.
And every technology, it would be good to have somebody who’s sort of like, you know, doing the art of it, the content.
And then somebody else who’s sort of thinking about, OK, well, what’s the next step in the infrastructure? That’s why we’re a great team.
And that’s why we’re– that’s why we’re good.
Yeah, no.
We’re good.
We’re ugly, but we’re good.
We’re good.
We should wear buttons to say that.
We should have buttons to say, we’re good.
And BloggerCon, we should hand them out to– Hi, we’re good.
I’m a blogger.
I’m good.
You can go love that.
No, I’m a pod– actually, Doug Kay had a really cool thing.
He was trying to figure out the verbiage of podcasting.
Oh, man.
Please.
And so he asked the question, well, what– OK, podcasting must be the creation of this, right? What we’re doing right now, or we’re getting ready to do a podcast, because the podcast is when you wind up and you throw it, right? Yeah, you get this, the pod pull.
We’re pod pulling.
Right.
And so just what he came– yeah , right.
Thanks.
I’m going to go there with– so he said, then what is listening ? He’s listening also podcasting? Or is it pod catching? No.
It’s a pod catching, exactly.
And so– and the funny thing was is that I had bought that.
You had bought that domain name .
It’s pod catch.
Yeah, I remember that.
Pod catch, and then I still have it.
I have an interesting one.
So– Hey, I have a really, really good one.
We could always use– I kept this domain for many, many years.
It’s clambumping. org.
It’s not that the fuck does that mean? Never mind.
Clambumping.
So somebody asked me– you must have got this interview, too.
I bet you did.
Which one? Somebody asked me yesterday.
Eric at– oh god, OJR.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Written in– In an interview.
No, I actually do those voice.
I never do written interviews.
Oh, he sent me a whole bunch of questions.
That was the only written one I did, I figured.
And that’s actually based on that.
Should be like a bunch of holiday.
What? That’s a bussiness holiday.
I write all day anyway, so I figured if I’m going to do an interview– Right, so yeah, I spoke to him.
Yeah.
He had some good questions about making– So, yeah, well, you asked if there was a connection between Howard Stern and podcasting.
It’s all sort of happening at the same time.
And I said, you know, well, it ’s good.
Basically, we’re all spreading out and we’re trying out new ideas.
I honestly think that the satellite radio is going to catch on to podcasting and use it effectively before they get Howard Stern.
Oh, really? I think it’ll happen before 2006.
Why not? They have a distribution system .
Yeah.
Right? I mean, can you imagine having XM radio for your home and connecting it up to your computer and, you know, doing the Tivo thing from your computer to– Or conversely.
Why not? Because they should have a channel that does nothing more than subscribes to five different feeds and just broadcast whatever it comes up against.
That would be cool, too.
That’s exactly right.
Why not? Or, you know, give you a guy like Adam Curry, right? I mean, do you have a track record for doing this stuff? Yeah, give me a goddamn channel .
Put me on the bird, baby! Well, actually, I was going to say give you $100 million.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, let me retry that statement.
Channel on the bird, $100 million.
I’m calling NASA! We’re blasting off our own damn spaceship! Hey, don’t get it started.
I like the way you say it, Dave .
Would you settle for $75 million? I could barely do it.
I could probably work that out with them, you know? And they’ll be willing to pay cash for like $65 million if you want to go for that, you get cash.
Yeah, right.
If you want to tax free.
If you want to get it for $50 million.
I want to blow the doors off of broadcasting.
That’s what I want to do.
This is, I think I’m finally finding my life’s mission.
I mean, I was listening.
Did you hear the Steve Wozniak speech at Nondex? No, I haven’t.
No, you keep talking about it.
Yeah, well, it was podcast.
IT Conversations put it up.
And I sat there listening as Wo zniak, who can’t be much older than I am.
What is he, is he about your age? So about 49, 50? No, he’s old.
Oh, no, no.
He’s older than that? Probably, yeah.
But he’s got a young heart.
He was doing the same things as a kid that I was doing.
I was reading Tom Swift Jr. by the way, it’s been, I’ve been keeping this secret, but hey, this is trade secrets.
I’ve been keeping this secret for a long time.
I’ve secretly been doing an audio book of Tom Swift because they’re all on the Gutenberg project.
These books are more than 100 years old.
So of course, that would mean that Wozniak could be that old too.
But he also used the radio shack 101 projects in one, all that shit.
I was like, my God.
But I had, at a certain point, it switched to broadcasting when I was about 15.
I built my first transmitter.
He was also a ham radio operator and built stuff.
And just about when it got to the end and the ore and the logic gates is where I went off into broadcasting.
And I think I made a mark, may it be a hairy one.
I made a mark in broadcasting, certainly on MTV and on radio stations around the world.
And then it was the internet where I was right at the beginning of, I was certainly one of those responsible for commercializing the net, whether that’s a good or a bad thing is up in the air.
I think it’s good personally.
And I just had like five years of dicking around and nothing really, learn how to fly helicopters.
That’s nice.
And did some, tried to start a couple of things and lost some money here and there and made a little bit.
But just became a user, which is what I promised myself.
And then all of a sudden, boom, here’s, oh, wait a minute, there’s something else.
And I’m kind of leading the charge.
It’s really exciting.
This may be what I’m supposed to do.
What you did in the last, that ’s what you did in the last five years you learned, you assimilated and learned how to do.
We all did.
I mean, five years ago, five years ago, I had never, I never launched a standard.
I mean, I had launched things that would become standards, right? But I didn’t know how to, you know, how to get other people to do what I was doing and just sort of tripped over that, you know, that basically, if you want somebody to do something, then you need to do it first.
And that’s, that’s the big secret.
You know, you can’t stand back and say, well, I’ll do this and everybody else, would you all just do that? No, it doesn’t work that way.
They simply won’t do it.
No, they won’t do it.
They won’t.
They’ll just do what you’re doing.
And they’ll say, okay, well, who needs you? We’ll just like copy you and whatever.
And, you know, that was at first quite frustrating because I said, well, geez, I’m already doing that.
Let me do that.
You do something else.
And then I realized that, that, that, okay, I just learned to accept that.
Okay.
Number one.
And then I started when I, when I, when the thought popped in my head is I wish everyone would do X than all I did was start doing X and saying how great it was, you know, oh, I can’t believe this.
I always meant it.
You know what I mean? It wasn’t like I was saying.
Purposely did that.
I wanted everybody to do it.
Right.
I was doing it saying it was great because I was really, you know, loving what I was doing and so excited and trying to get everybody else excited about it.
And so you’ve now done that.
And that’s, you know, that’s something to be quite proud of.
I mean, you know, you actually got people to copy you.
And, and that is how you create these swells of activity.
And then the question is, does it have legs? And I’m sure this does.
I mean, I was sure, I was sure it had legs when we were sitting in a hotel in New York.
That was a 99, wasn’t it? Yeah.
I think it was 2000, but you know, it was like when the light bulb went on for me and I, oh, that’s a good idea.
You know, so fuck, how did this like hair dude? Yeah.
Like celebrity.
Yeah.
Did he figure this out? Yeah.
It’s like your star had to fade a little bit before I came.
Before it could really shine.
Well, before they’re ready to let you have another career, you see, that’s the thing.
That’s true.
People don’t say that about you anymore.
They don’t, I don’t hear that.
You know, they don’t say, okay, well, Adam Curry, oh, he’s the guy with the hair.
You don’t hear that.
But, not much.
And still around.
It’s a reference.
It’s like a beacon.
I have, yeah, it’s a beacon, but I have to explain to some people who you are and what your background is.
People who should have known, you know, you think, well, geez , where were they in the 80s, right? But, you know, they obviously weren’t around what you were doing and where they forgot.
Or, oh, that’s possible.
I forgot a lot about the 80s too.
Well, you know what they say about the 60s is if you remember them, you weren’t there.
So I’ve been listening and I’ve been subscribing to the KOMA 1000 news feed.
Oh, that’s so awesome.
Yeah.
I got one that I want to play.
Here’s a short news story.
These are great because about 45 minutes and they come in neatly bundled packages.
45 seconds.
45 seconds.
Sorry.
Yeah, this is from Herb who gives us tips on how to use our computers.
And it made me laugh, but I, you know, this is also a good way to, you know, well, I’ll talk about content routing in a second, but here’s Herb with his computer tip.
Ah, ah, ah, don’t click that link.
The opt-out link on spam email messages.
Clicking it won’t do any good.
And according to Message Labs, a leading email security service, it may let a hacker take over your computer.
Some spammers are putting special code in those click here to opt-out links.
The moment you click on it, they turn your computer into a zombie.
Bob Sullivan, technology correspondent for MSNBC, says they do that by hiding a Trojan horse program on your system.
Once this Trojan is installed on your computer, they can do anything with your computer that you could do.
They can send out as much spam as they want for your computer and that’s probably why they’re doing it.
But they could also move around the internet using your computer.
They could use your computer to attack another computer.
And of course they could feel all your personal information from it.
So how do you protect yourself? MSNBC’s Bob Sullivan says the safest thing you can do is to read your email in plain text and not HTML format.
You should also have your web browser in a high security setting.
Keep your antivirus software up to date.
As you put a ginormous condom all over yourself in your computer.
And never click the unsubscribe link in a spam message.
And that’s today’s tip.
I’m Herb Weissbaum, the consumer man, looking out for you on Como 1000 News.
I love that.
I feel so much safer than Herb is looking out for us.
Herb’s a good guy.
He’s great.
He’s great.
But he’s saying all the right things.
I gotta go see those guys.
They’re local.
I’m here in Seattle.
They’re in Seattle.
We’ve got to find out.
We’ve got some soul brothers here.
Very cool.
What they’re doing is so incredibly cool.
Can I tell you a little story? Yeah, go for it.
It’s a real little bit of a time.
We had the Thursday evening meetings at Berkman.
We would do them every Thursday .
It was an open meeting for all bloggers, not just people at Harvard, but just anybody in the area and people that would come in town and they’d come by and see us.
One of the regulars of those meetings was Lisa Williams.
And we were talking about, I forget exactly what we were talking about, but the nature of the web came up, or blogs or whatever.
And she said that blogs are like food that you can eat.
Like, okay, food you can eat with chopsticks.
I asked her an explanation.
She said, well, you know, if you look at what Chinese food is, is that they design their food so that it can be eaten with chopsticks.
And you stop and think about it , and it’s true.
There are these little chunks.
They’re already pre-sliced.
Everything’s already for you to just pick it up and put it in your mouth, which isn’t like Western food, which is designed to be eaten with a fork and knife.
So you eat like a steak if you like that, right? And then she was saying that blogs are like Chinese food that way.
They’re these little morsels, little standalone things.
And that’s what struck me about the Como podcast feed is that what they’re doing, like you said in your daily source code, is that, okay, they’re now giving me the daily news in a form where, okay, if I’m not interested, just hit the fast forward button and I’m on to the next one.
Right.
Now that’s a revolution.
And the next step, of course, is subscribe to the general interest feed here or the sports feed or that’s the next step.
Yeah.
It’s putting a lot more, the user is a lot more in control.
And yet there’s nothing about it that says you can’t make money doing this.
None of their business models are negated.
However, they will have to deal with more competition because there’s not this scarce resource called Bandlif.
I mean, or frequency.
Frequency, spectrum.
Spectrum, spectrum, right.
Spectrum is the right word.
Sorry.
I’m not a geek in that area.
But yeah, so it’s wonderful.
They took the lead in what you ’re doing with WGBH Boston.
That’s fantastic.
Yeah, isn’t that great? The stories are a lot of fun.
And there’s going to be a lot more of that.
And that’s so exciting.
I got another audio comment from, have you ever listened to the “Dawnton Drew” show? I’ve only heard clips on your show.
I have not listened to it yet.
They’re funny, man.
You really should listen.
Yeah, yeah, it’s funny.
They wind up talking about how Dawn is saying, “Okay, so when you sit down to pee, does your wiener get wet?” And they’re really honest.
These are really honest questions.
These are the questions on everybody’s mind, right? Yeah, I guess so.
It wouldn’t have been a war in Iraq if we knew the answer to that one.
Hold on.
Here’s a question.
Actually, it was probably for the source code, but since this is my recording, “Venture for Today,” we’ll use it here.
Hey, Adam, it’s Drew from the " Dawnton Drew” show.
I just thought I’d try out this audio comment type of thing.
It just seems like the cool thing to do these days.
But I was checking out your podcast today and you were referencing, what’s his name? Go Higan.
He does it for us.
Hey, Adam, it’s Michael Gohagan .
Michael.
There we go.
Go Higan.
Okay, here’s some feedback.
Michael Gohagan, he was mentioning the whole genre thing.
And I just thought that was really interesting because I hadn’t really realized that it was even an issue.
I had been doing it since the … I think I did it from the third show.
I started adding all the metadata and then I went back in and redid all the metadata even back to the very first show so anybody who grabs all of them, as I was going through the metadata, the ID3 tags inside iTunes, I realized that you could type in the genre tag.
So I just went ahead and put podcast and I’ve been doing it ever since.
And I just think it’s pretty cool that I was just forcing that genre upon anybody and everybody’s iTunes.
So interesting that that was what you guys were talking about and I’d been doing that and not that I’m the pioneer of that or anything.
I just think it’s cool.
I think it’s totally appropriate and we should definitely force our agenda on the masses.
So yeah, hey, awesome show.
Thanks again for… I mean, you inadvertently plugged our show again by playing that podcast from Canada.
All right.
So then he goes on to thank me profusely.
But these are just users, man.
These are just people who are just digging and doing this.
You gotta be careful I found out about calling people users.
They don’t necessarily see themselves that way.
The other thing I was thinking about is listening.
I didn’t hear most of what he said because the convictions get pretty bad.
You must be doing an iPod or scan right now.
No, I have everything off.
I have all my shared drives are disconnected.
I’m standing on my left foot.
I’m probably doing one.
Yeah, you’re probably your aggregators sucking shit down.
I think Adam, it’s getting pretty close to time for some awards.
Yeah, I think it’s getting there.
And a button on your homepage.
That’s the thing.
Well, no, I’m not kidding.
This is a joke.
The thing is, is that people mostly… We talk about this with developers, right? What do developers want? 90% of what a developer wants is to be appreciated, to be acknowledged, to be seen, to achieve visibility through their creativity, which is the best way for somebody to be visible.
You don’t want somebody to be … Then to have to create visibility by flaming you on a mail list.
Right, right.
So, we’re still in good vibe land here.
And maybe we could figure out a way… It can’t just be… I don’t know how we do it, but it’d be great to sort of give everybody who’s done a podcast right now some way of being part of something, like an association or… Because these are the good energy people.
These are people who are going to remember when it was wonderful.
National association of podcas ters.
N-A-P-G.
MAPC.
MAPC.
MAPC.
MAPC.
I’m going to the MAPC.
I don’t think so.
No.
We’ll have to work on that one.
Yeah.
Well, either we do it at or around BloggerCon or how it has to happen after BloggerCon, because that’s… Okay, okay.
You got it.
We’re going to have a pod… I got it.
This is what Doug K asked for.
We got to do it.
We’re going to have a podcaster ’s dinner on Saturday Night at BloggerCon.
There you go.
There you go.
Okay.
Oh, man.
It’ll be a good guest.
It’s going to be fun.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
I’m going to have a podcaster’s dinner.
That is a take off of a take off of a take off on the way old fashioned announcers talk.
What you notice in the radio business, guys on the real radio, not podcasting but broadcasting, they’re always, you know, you stand next to them in the studio and listen.
They’re screaming most of them like, “Everybody, it’s a WCZZZ 100.
We’ll take all of them right now.
One, two, three, four, two, three, zero, one hundred.
Do that from Z100. " Right? So, I’ve had some practice.
Wait a whole lot of it while I regain my composer.
Right.
Well, you know, so then the other one is 107. 5, WLTW, playing the best of the 70s, the 80s, and the 90s.
We’re the mix in time.
Yeah, I can do that one.
I don’t think it works on WNEDW .
WNEDW.
Well, yeah, no, that had to be kind of like the muffled microphone.
It was like, “Jonathan Schwartz on WNEW FM. " No, you know, you’re overdoing it.
He was the foe sincere.
He was sort of like your best friend, but the best friend of your girlfriend.
Right.
Right.
And so he could do the trade secrets.
I mean, you know, you always sort of get the idea that he knew how to get the chicks.
So, you wanted to sort of listen to figure out how he was doing it so that you could get some too.
Well, so, I think it all happened.
Howard Stern really brought that into the front of the media when Hank Kingsley from Larry Sander’s show.
“Hey now, Hank Kingsley, and now it’s time for Larry Sander . " And so Howard Stern started doing a lot of that.
But in the meantime, at radio station, this has been this way forever since, I guess, you know, Rock and Roll radio started.
Those who weren’t on the radio, so like the program director and the managing or the general manager or the music director, they all, you know, have this like special little language that they speak with the air talent who are often like the morning show guy who might also be the program director.
And they all talk about, “Hey man, I know what I’m doing, everybody.
Hey man, yeah man, we got good radio news man.
Yeah, hey man, yeah man, I’ll talk later.
Bye, bye. " Because, you know, we’re all such incredible communicators.
We have our own little special shorthand.
And ask anyone in radio, they ’ll confirm this.
It’s horrible.
So you know, you just get into the habit of just slipping into it and you know, the automatic thing is, “Hey now everybody, how you doing? Good morning!” So.
That was great.
But listen to the radio and that’s the difference between radio broadcasts and podcasts.
That’s the first thing you hear .
That’s why I say it’s like college radio, which was incredibly cool man, you gotta listen to college radio back in the 80 s.
That’s where it was happening.
That’s where that’s where the R . E. M came from.
You know.
Well I did actually listen to FM radio when I was in San Francisco and it was actually kind of nice.
There’s a station called KFRC which is an oldies format and they played some songs I hadn’t heard in a long time.
Right.
And I like that.
It’s nice, you know.
They played a song called " Those were the days, those were the days my friend. " “Days my friend, I know they never” We thought it turned out, an answer came on and explained that it was a Russian song.
I think her name was Hopkins, Mary Hopkins.
And it was a wonderful song.
So you know, I was like, I sat there in the parking lot.
I got into the hotel.
And I just listened and I tears , you know, it’s sad because it ’s true those were the days we thought they’d never end.
We were young and we didn’t know better.
We’re getting close.
We’re getting damn close, right ? Oh man.
Damn it.
You mentioned that.
I wish I had known.
What? Now go ahead.
You wish you’d known what? I wish I had known then what I know now.
You know.
Oh, stupid cliche.
Right.
Sure.
Anyway.
Yesterday on the source code I played Frank Sinatra, “Come Fly With Me. " Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
So here’s something really weird.
Today in slips my into my iPod der.
So I actually checked it on iTunes.
The latest GeekSpeak, which is the gamer Geeks who have a podcast.
Yeah.
Check them out what they started with.
This is this.
It freaked me out and it took me a second and I won’t let you hear the whole thing, but you’ll understand.
Fly me to the moon.
Yeah.
Let me.
That’s how they started.
Listen, I can tell you didn’t read scripting news yesterday because number one I went to Yeah, I did.
I did.
I did.
You did.
Yeah.
You did.
I’m waiting for you to tell the story.
I’m waiting for you to tell the story.
Oh, yeah.
I was getting off the tram at F FO listening to the Daily Source Code.
I had just returned my rental car and was going to the terminal and Adam says, “Well, I’m going to play you a song. " And the song comes on as I’m going down and says, “Welcome to San Francisco International . " And it’s come fly with me.
Da, da, da, da.
And I go, “Fuck, I’m going flying. " Adam, all right.
Not bad.
Everybody.
Everybody.
Everybody.
Yeah.
Big, big, big.
Everybody.
Everybody.
He’s from Seattle, Washington.
How’s it going up there, Big Davey? Listen to the radio and you’re going to – is it going to start noticing this? You will start noticing how these guys talk.
Oh, yeah.
And they’re so cookie cutter.
In the middle of the day, there ’s always the midday girl.
That’s when the women are always on.
It has to be midday, after the morning show and before afternoon drive.
So it kind of carries you over.
And it’s for housewives.
That’s why they always put women there.
Actually, when I was a kid, N-E -W-F-M, which was my station, had Allison Steele.
Allison Steele, yeah.
Allison Steele, the nighter.
Right.
Yeah.
The nightbird, exactly.
The nightbird, yeah.
And she would be on at 2 a. m.
and he’d go, “Oh my God, she must be a mysterious woman.
She’s on at 2 a. m. " She had the perfect face for radio, my friend.
Yeah.
And then she used to play – there was a song, I forget who ’s saying it, it was called, “I Usually Like It Much Better in the Morning. " Yeah.
And it was a woman singing that .
Maybe you could find that somewhere.
It was really something.
I like it so much, but I’ll have to look at it for it later .
I like it much better in the morning, which was an unusual thought to me.
Because whatever, I was fashion , obviously.
I was 16 years old.
What else do you think I was thinking about? Yeah.
You would listen to the night bird.
And see, here’s the generation gap, Dave.
When I moved to New York in ‘87 , I was 20-something.
We had Robin Bird on Channel J.
Oh, God.
Have you ever seen her? Oh, God.
Yeah, that’s a faint echo of what Allison Steele was.
“Come on, baby, bang my box.
Come on, baby, bang my box.
You can bang my box. " That was a great show.
I love that show.
Listen, when all this shit was going on with Jonathan Schwartz and Scott Muney was another one.
Yeah, Scott Muney, W-N-E-W-S-N.
There were hippies in the East Village.
You know? There were long-haired hippies.
Just like there were in Haydn, Asbury.
K-Fog was, I don’t know, from the first place.
I don’t know anything about San Francisco Radio Zero.
Doc Searles knows everything about San Francisco Radio.
Well, yeah, he does.
There’s two stations in San Francisco Bay Area that were seminal, made a big difference, at least as far as I know, where K-Fog, which is still there.
That was a progressive rock.
Right.
You know, the equivalent of W-N -E-W.
Then it was K-Pig.
K-Pig, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In Gilroy, I think they were.
They had a stream going for a long time.
But they still streamed.
They were like one of the big pioneering streamers.
I don’t know, but they were still there.
When I moved to the Bay Area in ‘79, and I lived in Los Gatos, that was the first place I lived.
They were close.
I was close enough to Gilroy to actually pick up K-Pig, and it was great.
I couldn’t believe it.
They were playing things like Little Feet.
Little Feet was one of my favorite bands.
Right, right, right.
They played The Dead.
They played all the sort of stuff you never heard on FM Radio.
Of course, they were too good, I guess, to last.
Doc, we’ll talk about that.
I’m sure Doc will be there at Barcon.
We got to do so many podcasts when we’re at BloggerCon.
I’m just looking forward to putting cool stuff together.
I think Sliden did that at the first Barcon.
He did.
It was really good.
It was very good.
In fact, he interviewed you.
We should dig that one up.
We should dig that one up.
It was you, and who else did he interview that was really good? It was Jay Rosen.
Yeah, you’re right.
Jay Rosen was at Jay Rosen’s podcast, or really we can call him podcast then, but I remember going, “Okay. " Webcast, we called him for some reason.
Something like that.
Well, they were cast from the web.
I don’t remember.
We’ll have to go back and listen to see what we called them.
I mean, that was the first time I heard Daily Costs, and he interviewed Daily Costs.
Right.
He interviewed Julie Powell from… Hold on a second, Dave.
My cat is freaking out.
Hold on.
I got to go.
Let the cat in.
Come here.
Come here, baby.
Come here.
Everybody wait while Adam goes and takes care of the cat.
Come here.
Go.
Damn.
Maybe someday we should do a trade secrets that’s like 100% domestic.
Oh, I can’t hear you.
We have wireless microphones.
Yeah, I’m back, but no wireless speakers yet.
Okay, so I was just telling the people about how someday we ought to do the domestic trade secrets where basically all we do is just clean the house and flush the floor.
Reality radio.
Maybe you can leave it running while I go shopping.
How incredibly exciting.
Oh my God.
It’s the boner cast.
Lovely.
So, yeah, I had dinner with Steve Gilmore.
That’s one thing I wanted to tell you about.
Last night.
Or the night before.
No, the night before.
It was the night before.
It was the night before, yeah.
And he said… Can’t wait to meet him in the blogger.
A comedy channel.
Yeah, I asked him if he had ever met you.
He said he hadn’t.
And he says what we’re doing is a comedy show here.
Oh, then we can get a listing under the comedy note in the directory, which is maintained by someone else, so I’ll have to submit a link.
You’ll have to get down on your hands.
I will.
Please add us to your comedy directory.
Please, please, please.
No, please.
And buy flowers and tell them how much you love them.
The way it should be.
Or whatever.
I don’t know.
Send flowers.
Tell them that you really care.
I love you and I love it and I really care.
Right.
So what else does Steve’s… I can’t wait to meet Steve because he’s been such a tremendous driving force and at the end of every single Gilmore gang boy, if he doesn’t come out and just plug podcasting some more.
It was really great the way I was listening to the interview with Kim Kulesi and… Kulesi.
I can say, in pronunciation.
Kulesi.
And, you know, I wanted them to ask her a question that they didn’t ask, you know, because she was always talking about walking.
I don’t know if you listened to the whole thing.
Yeah, I listened to the whole thing.
It was extremely difficult at times.
Yeah.
Why was it difficult? Well, because I got the idea, you know, and I just hear… I hear a lot of marketing speak after a while.
You know, I just get tired of it.
You know, I get it.
You know, I get it.
You’re providing service to open source, you know, stacks that you’ll sell.
I get it.
It’s great.
You know, there’s companies doing that.
There’s going to be more and this is probably going to be a really good one.
Well, there’s a geek fasc ination with Kim.
You’ve got to understand.
She can really talk about anything she wants.
She’s cute.
Yeah.
And then the guys will go, “Oh, really? Oh, that’s fascinating. " That’s what they want to hear.
They want to hear.
Kim, this is great.
You’re right.
The kill one.
All those guys were sitting there.
I thought it was phones ringing , but no, it was boing, boing, boing, boing.
And they just wanted to know what’s on her mind.
And at the end, it was really cool.
I thought there was a really great moment in there where, at the end, you know, because she apparently had given a speech at this invitation only $2,400 VC conference on blog ging, which by the way is like a Republican conference on the environment.
Yeah, I read that quote on scripting news.
That was funny.
It’s gotten a lot of play.
Of course.
I actually got a response from a venture capitalist on that and a friend of mine, Hank Barry, and the conversation turned in very interesting directions.
Hank’s a really good guy.
He came out and visited us.
Anyway, at the end, they asked, so Kim’s speech was, apparently , was a lot about, you know, podcasting and blogging and RSS and all the things that we think are so cool, you know, which don’t seem to have anything to do with what you’re doing.
With a stack.
An open source stack.
Right.
With a stack.
Well, yeah.
Stack casting.
We have a new one, ladies and gentlemen.
We’re going to bring you to the next episode.
We have a new one, ladies and gentlemen.
We’re going to bring you stack casting by the end of the year.
Pretty soon.
Yeah.
It’s in the queue right now.
So they asked her about that and then she just lit up.
It’s like, oh, this is all the cool shit, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And you go, okay, that’s cool.
How did that happen? Why isn’t she doing all that stuff? I don’t know.
She should be.
It’s probably, it’s a venture capital thing.
It’s another one of those where probably they had a CEO for this company, the Kleiner Per kins guys, and something happened.
He blew up.
He blew up.
He blew up.
Or the entrepreneur said he could be the CEO and they eventually wore him down and convinced him he couldn’t.
And is Kim like the standby CEO and residents of a venture capital firm? Yeah, it’s not the best standby .
They have a stable of them.
It’s the way the system works.
Basically they move you out of one company and then you get a hang out until, you know, and they keep showing you companies until you go, okay, I like that one and they put you in a CEO of that one.
Oh, hey Dave, hey Dave, hey Dave, let’s start a company and then let venture capitalists take us out.
Real quick.
Oh, I actually did that one.
Me too.
I’ve been living off the proceeds ever, ever since.
Yeah, let’s start something.
Yeah, I was, shh, shh, shh, don ’t tell anyone.
That’s a secret.
That’s a secret.
It’s a secret.
That was funny because I heard, I don’t know if Steve was at that dinner, but he certainly did call on her at the end of the Gilmore Gang about podcast ing.
Yeah.
That was kind of cool.
And he didn’t really attack her .
He had lots of room there, which was nice.
Oh, totally.
The question he should ask is where’s your lock in? Where’s your lock in? She was talking about everybody else’s lock in.
I was like saying, okay, he has dirty underwear.
He has dirty underwear.
Okay, what about your underwear ? She’s got a dirty stack.
Yeah.
She’s stacked.
I’m not going there.
I’m sorry.
Don’t you have to put a disclaimer in somewhere here, Mr. Weiner? No, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
All right, on that note.
That was a long time ago.
On that note.
And I have, you know, I have, you want to listen to something or you want to end it? We’re about an hour into this.
What do you want to do? What do you have? Well, it’s about, let me see how long it is.
It’s kind of long, but it’s really good.
It’s six minutes.
It’s, I plugged this yesterday on the source code, the truth out overview from truth out. org .
This guy has been, he was doing his own podcast and it’s just so good.
It’s just, I mean, this guy.
Well, then you have to play this.
It’s so good.
I’ll just play it.
I’ll play a little bit of it.
I’ll play about, I want to play the beginning and about a minute of what he’s doing.
You’ll get the idea pretty quickly.
All right.
Okay.
And you should subscribe too.
Good evening.
This is William Rivers Piff and this is the truth out overview for Friday, October 8th, 2004.
Our lead for today comes from the editorial board of the Dem orns Register and is titled Orwell Goes to War.
The essay reads in part as follows.
We live in Orwell in times where obvious falsehoods are asserted brazenly as truth.
The day after the final report of the Iraq survey group confirmed that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and no active programs to produce them , Vice President Dick Cheney blithely asserted that the report justified the invasion of Iraq.
No Mr. Vice President, the report shattered the last forl orn hope that the war was necessary.
It established that Iraq posed no threat to the United States before the 2003 invasion or any time in the foreseeable future.
You get the idea, right? Yep.
Yeah, it’s really, really good stuff.
And he reads his own essays and other newspaper articles you might not come across.
It’s a podcast but it’s just like a weblog.
He’s routing information.
All these people are routing information around.
I just routed information by playing this.
This is good.
This is just good stuff.
He’s a good feed to subscribe to.
What’s the feed? Where is it? It’s in the podcast directory.
That’s all you need to know.
Yeah, on iPodder. org.
It’s a truth out.
A truth out overview is what it ’s called.
So you should be able to find it.
That’s what we need.
We need to be able to search the directory tree really quickly.
We’ve got to do all kinds of stuff like that.
Is that possible? Is it distributed? Does that work? Oh, anything works.
You know, we’ve got to, well here’s the deal.
Then we’ve got to talk to the search entities and get them to crawl that tree.
You know, and then, okay, that ’s step number one.
I’m glad we got a chance to do this.
That’s step number one.
Once they’ve crawled it, when they find one, they should just display it like a directory.
Yeah, done.
You’re done.
You’re done.
It’s so cool.
We’ve now completely disinter mediated Yahoo.
And God knows they need to be disintermediated.
Even they would agree with that .
By now.
Probably not.
Well, but then who cares what they think, right? I don’t care.
I don’t care either.
I don’t care.
Jeremy Zawadny takes that.
He doesn’t care what I think.
Can you believe that guy? I mean, basically he goes and asks Tim O’Reilly whether he has any conflicts of interest.
Like, don’t you own Google stock, Tim? And of course, Tim did own Google stock and it was a good question to ask.
And so I quoted him asking the question.
What was that about a year ago? No, it wasn’t that long ago.
I should.
It’s about time somebody had the balls to ask O’Reilly that question.
What’s the question? Explain the situation because I know what you’re talking about.
Okay, well what happened was that Tim O’Reilly, Google was getting a lot of heat for something that they did.
I don’t remember what it was.
They get a lot of heat.
They’re a big company and they ’re in a leadership position and heat is a good thing.
It was Gmail.
It was about Gmail, wasn’t it? Right, it was the privacy issues.
And the privacy issues, and I think I had written this, was like there were no worse than anybody else and come on, get a life.
This isn’t really a privacy issue.
But people were freaking out.
In the state of California, it was going to pass the law.
Making what they were doing illegal.
It was just so ridiculous.
So Tim O’Reilly comes along and writes a thing basically saying this is all a bunch of bullshit .
And you can’t hold them.
But he went way over the line.
I thought.
I don’t get what he said.
But some of the things he said were like, come on, don’t go so far.
Don’t get so crazy about Google .
We’ve got to be realistic about them.
And what Jeremy is a Wadney who works at Yahoo.
His what was making him sore, and you can see this happening over and over, is that Yahoo, they feel fair amount of resentment for Google because they get credit for doing the things that Yahoo did first.
They get credit for doing it first.
Everybody says, oh Google is so innovative.
But they’re actually just copying Yahoo.
That’s the way it goes.
So he comes.
Well, it does.
It does.
I hate that.
And I support Zaladney in that one.
I think that we ought to know who did the innovation.
Let’s get grounded in the truth .
So Zaladney asks the question, hey Tim O’Reilly, don’t you own a lot of Google stock? But you did disclose when you wrote that.
And of course, you kind of do need to disclose that.
Or at least when somebody asks, you should answer, right? Instead Tim goes blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and never really answers the question except he kind of says, yeah, I do.
But it’s sort of like that comes in paragraph eight.
But first he has to say why the question isn’t a fair one and how blah, blah, whatever.
Tim O’Reilly, usual, long, windy, very sort of like, I’m Mr. Cool and it’s perfect and clean.
Well, there goes my invitation to food camp, Dave.
Thanks.
No, that goes my invitation to food camp.
You can just stroke him any way you want.
So anyway, to take a long story , very, very long, tediously long.
I quoted Zaladney.
I said, well, thank you.
I didn’t say anything.
I just did Zaladney, Colin.
How much stock does Tim own? Google stock does Tim own.
And all of a sudden, a fucking lame, like, I’m the bad guy, right? They always kill the messenger, Dave.
They always kill the messenger.
No, I’m not the messenger.
Zaladney’s the messenger.
But you want to know the problem is Zaladney’s an O’Re illy author.
Oh, the small detail.
They said, well, were you expecting a royalty check this week? The tech industry is worse than entertainment, Dave.
The tech industry is just fucking bad.
So we got a cheater chick entertainment.
Yeah.
Well, you don’t get it.
We don’t have no Kim.
We’re catching up quickly.
You have plenty of Kims.
What are you talking about? Yeah, no.
All of them.
What do you say we hit the theme music at the fuck out of here? I think it’s time to get the fuck out of here.
Because we got to keep our standing in the comedy listing on the director.
It can’t become boring.
All right, Dave, thanks, buddy.
Hey, Adam.
Have fun.
Okay.
It’s davidscripting. com, adam@ curry. com.
This is tradesecrets@secrets. s cripting. com.
We’ll talk to y’all soon.
Bye.
Say bye, Dave.
Bye-bye.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
Bye-bye, Dave.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.