Will Kerry win the Presidency so Dave gets a Mac?
A shocking truth is revealed in today’s Trade Secrets podcast. It’s true. If John Kerry wins the election I’ll get a Mac. Let the record show it’s no longer in doubt. I may be a Mac user before the year is out.
Sound quality is somewhat improved this time. I don’t sound like I’ve had my mouth shot full of novacaine, but I sure sound like I got a lithp. Then an iPodder started running and chopped my speech to bits. Next time we’ll use Skype. It’ll sound better.
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Transcript
This transcript was automatically generated.
Yo, good Sunday evening.
Welcome to Trade Secrets.
I’m Adam Curry, back in Belgium .
Dave Winer in Seattle.
Yo, yo.
How you doing, Dave? Well, I’m doing great.
It’s been great.
We’ve had sunny weather here all weekend.
Oh, really? It’s been kick-out, yeah.
Well, welcome.
You know that’s not… Yeah.
I’m sorry, you were going to say something? No, no.
I was just going to say Seattle and sunny weather.
That’s not the usual thing.
I was going to say.
Well, I was in Britain over the weekend and we had rain today.
Definitely had the British weather.
Yep.
But anyway, welcome.
We got the volcano.
Trade Secrets, yeah, volcano, Mount St. Helens.
Yeah, something like that.
We’re stepping on each other’s lines today.
Yeah, we got to get into the swing here.
It’ll take a second for us to get all situated.
Now, I worked a little bit on your sound, on your audio.
It sounds better, but now it’s really enhancing all the… When you don’t talk, then it enhances all the crackling noise.
Oh, good.
So I’ll just do all the talking then.
Yeah, that would… If it sounds entirely tired, that would be good.
Nah.
Well, I listened to the last one.
The sound’s getting better, but I felt like last time it sounded like I had a huge shot of Novacaine.
I don’t know how you do that special effect, but… Actually, I’m trying to remove it.
The thing is, what really piss es me off is that Skype sounds so good, you know? I haven’t used Skype yet, and it’s just too bad.
Yeah.
Well, one step at a time.
We’re still doing this kind of the “seat of the pants” method.
That’s a very important discipline, because at some point, somebody’s going to productize the production side of this stuff, and it’s going to have to be cheap.
Did you read that thing that I posted? That I found on the… What is it? Rogue Amoeba Software weblog that they’re considering doing a podcast software package? No, I didn’t see that. That’s great.
Yeah, it’s really good.
We need to get started.
And the discussion that’s starting to get broader now… I’ve deliberately kept the discussion about iPodder stuff off scripting news, because that would have brought in a whole wave of the XML guys who bring their own energy with them, and I didn’t want to do anything to screw it up. It was going so good.
But now, the iPodder thing has its own momentum, and so I started posting a few things.
I saw you post an RFC.
Yeah, it was about time that we tell the aggregator developers that they’re really close to having the iPodder user interface, the reading interface.
They’re really close to having it.
And we might as well figure out exactly how close they all are, so that if they want to support it, they know how to do that.
But the thing I want to say is, because this is going to be probably heard by a lot of iPod ders, is that they’re all really nice people.
Yeah, aren’t they? Isn’t it a nice bunch? Yeah. Oh man, when they disagree with you, it’s like, " Oh, cool. " And then you come back and say, “Well, there’s a reason why I want to do it that way. " And they go, “Oh, well, that’s no problem. " Yeah, that’s good.
And then they go, “Wow, this reminds me of something like the good old days or whatever. " But I just wanted to say that there’s just a ton of really good energy that reminds me of the early days of any platform or developer community.
And sort of enjoy this period.
We’re going to look back on this.
It’s going to really, you know, this is the, but yeah, we’ve got a lot of work to do because we’ve only begun to really solve one of the three sort of sides to the triangle.
The other, you know, the listening side, and then there ’s the production side, which is what you were just talking about.
And then there’s the serving side.
And the production and serving are going to become really important.
They already are really important.
And because this thing is accelerating so quickly, I think that the importance of those things is also going to accelerate quickly.
And I had sort of a flash on this that if the desktop, if the laptop computers we were using weren’t such hair balls, weren’t such, you know, awfully overburdened pieces of software , which is really what they are, right? I mean, the hardware is great.
I mean, you’ve got multiple gig ahertz machines with gigabytes of hard drive space and even a gigabyte of RAM, whatever, you know, they fully capable as hardware.
But as software, they’re so utterly crippled that it’s, you know, look at all these devices you carry with you, Adam.
Why do you think you carry all those devices? Why couldn’t your laptop do what the iPod does? You know, okay, it’s smaller, so you don’t want to carry the laptop.
Well, I’ve just bought a really small laptop, right? And it’s because the software sucks.
And, you know, so we need to, I think, envision another piece of hardware for the production side.
Maybe on the Mac you don’t, but I think on Windows it’s going to have to be something like a mixer.
Oh, and you mean a hardware mixer, you think? Yeah, I don’t know.
It shouldn’t be necessary.
I mean, it shouldn’t be necessary at all.
It’s just no one’s really, no, not at all.
And there’s so much processing power.
And what was it, what were we listening to this weekend? Oh, the Nome Dex conference.
Yeah.
And Steve Gilmore, who was like , whoa, man, we got to give him some pom-poms, Dave.
Really? Steve is our cheerleader.
Oh, man, he’s such a cheer leader for podcasting.
He’s a good guy.
Really, I was, we were sitting there in the inn, and I had, I was listening to it streaming live, and Patricia was sitting there.
And it was just all these nice words.
It was just really great.
But, you know, he sees, I think at one point he said, what, you know, what we’re doing with podcasting, we are delivering equal to or even better production value than, you know, a big, a quote, big production company or radio facility.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s true , though.
Well, when you listen to how our audio is today, now I’d agree.
I mean, it was really funny that right as I said that, the whole thing dropped to the floor.
I couldn’t hear it.
I’ve been saying this, wait, wait, wait, let me just get this out, because I’ve been saying this to you privately.
I want to sort of say it out to , like, the universe, is that we really, I think, need to talk to somebody, a person, who understands how voiceover IP works.
And so that we could optimize this.
You know, we both got really good net connections.
It seems to me that we should be able to get out of this, although it’s amazing to think what is actually working for us .
What’s actually happening is already cool.
But it seems like the software that has the transmission part together doesn’t have the sound together and then vice versa.
So it’s just a matter of, you know, someone’s going to hit it .
I mean, it’s all there.
But it’s not going to be somebody that I know.
It’s not going to come out of the content management world or the XML world or the database.
So the stuff that I know here, I’m a user and I’m not even a very knowledgeable user with this.
The engineering of this stuff, it’s like there’s all these companies that do sound software.
Those are the guys.
And then you have to take what they know and you have to do some really, really good user interface on it so that, you know, so you don’t have to be an expert at using sound software to actually create something here.
Because frankly, I mean, to have something to say, you don ’t need to be an expert in sound software.
So we should be able to make it so that you just, you know, simplify it or make it so that the default settings are just giving you a pretty good result .
Sort of like we have, I bought an icon camera, you know, CoolP ix, whatever, 3200.
And I think of it as like the brownie camera of the 21st century.
I mean, it’s just, you point at something, you click the shutter, it takes a picture, you do it again, and out of that, you know, maybe one tenth of them are really good.
And that’s, I think, amazing.
You know, it’s an incredible thing.
You don’t want that big cannon with interchangeable lenses.
But Dave, you, hold on.
You can’t, you can’t, you need certain things to do this type of production.
You can’t just oversimplify it.
You know, it’s never going to be push button for audio stuff.
It just never will be.
But it is push button for me, Adam. It is right now push button for me.
Oh yeah, if you’re talking about just recording your mic, agree. Then it’s totally push button.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No, it’s push button for me in trade secrets. It’s push button for me.
Yeah.
You’re, I mean, I know that you ’ve got a whole complicated thing and I really appreciate you’re doing that.
But it’s an important point to be made, okay? Is that I’m not learning all the ins and outs. You’re all I ’m doing is putting on a microphone and headphones.
Yeah.
And we’re having, you know, these chats which says there may be a role for service bureau.
Okay. There may be a role for some back end.
Okay.
That makes it really easy.
Yeah, I got you.
You see where I’m going? Yeah, I’m with you.
Yeah.
Okay.
In other words, yeah, if you need to have a rocket science test around, well, could I rent one just for a few hours or do I need to buy it? Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. You’re right.
Well, that’s very interesting.
I hadn’t thought about that.
That’s really good.
Think about it.
Think about it.
That’s really good.
We’re thinking about it.
Yeah.
Well, I’m excited about these rogue Amoeba guys because they already do Audio Hijack Pro, which I’m using now.
You know, they do, everything I ’ve used from them has contributed to getting the job done.
Wow.
And, you know, he says, well, I ’m not, you know, I posted it.
I forget the guy’s name, but he said, you know, I got to check into this podcast thing.
You know, we’re not just going to start up a new product overnight, but, yeah, I think that might happen with it.
All the press is coming.
Yeah.
It changes too.
Yeah, he’ll get pretty interested.
That’s something that you and I can see that, can’t see, but that while there’s a lot of buzz on the web about this, there’s also coming a lot of, you know, ink is going to be spent on this too.
Oh, already? I mean, you’ve done interviews.
I’ve got four for tomorrow.
It’s unbelievable.
Well, reporters like this.
This is like word processing.
You know, word processing stuck in the 80s.
Much more than spreadsheets because – Well, this is what reporters use.
Right.
And here, this may not be exactly what reporters use, but any reporter that has a radio background goes totally apeshit over there.
Yeah, understands.
This is what they’ve been living for.
This is like the print reporters, you know, it’s a 10- year time shift.
In 1994, the writers, you know, people who wrote for newspapers and magazines, the really good ones, the really ones that had a vision that were idealistic, you know, the web came along and that just juiced them.
You know, that was what they were waiting for, basically.
Ten years later, it’s radio.
Yeah.
And that’s where we’re at right now.
And it’s wonderful.
I mean, to me, well, I’ve said this before.
It’s not – you know.
Do you remember your first radio, Dave? Do you remember your first radio? Oh, extremely well.
It was – like you said, it was the transistor radio that made rock and roll happen.
My grandfather gave me – Doc Searle said that.
I have to give him props there.
Doc Searle said that.
Oh, Doc Searle.
Sorry, you’re right.
It was Doc.
You see, this all blends in.
But my grandfather, my paternal grandfather, which is really strange because he was like, by far the less hip of the two grandfathers I had, gave me this really sort of like iPod- sized, you know, thing and I would listen to it, W-A-B-C-A-M.
Was it a Sony with a blue leatherette case? No, it wasn’t.
It was huge, cheap.
Oh, that’s right.
No, no, I had a Sony, man.
I couldn’t believe it.
It felt so heavy and massive and it was really tiny though.
No.
It was AM on it.
I later on – later on I had one of those, too.
But I just remember like being six or seven or something like that and listening to it under the blankets at night when I wasn’t supposed to be doing it.
Yeah, exactly the same.
I listened to basketball games.
What I would say is, wow, this is cool.
It turned out to be what I sought in my whole life.
That was the theme of my life, basically.
Yeah, the first transistor radio was a heavy duty thing.
Oh, before I forget, just to go back to your RFC for iPodder, for, you know, yeah, an iPodder .
Today I saw on the list a iPod der Java was released and iPod der for Windows which uses . NET, I think.
But, you know, I installed the Java one.
Of course, I didn’t install the Windows one, but it says it has a system tray icon.
And, yeah, you know, that’s – now it’s really moving.
Now everyone’s just popping release after release out.
Maybe we should start a directory.
I got an email on that.
Somebody sent an email.
Did you hear on the source code , Gregory has kindly offered to be curator of all things iPod der and do a directory? Oh, sure. Yeah, I did. I thought that was for the software, though.
Yeah, it is.
Mike Freeman, who I used to know from Symantec, sent an email and he said he was looking for something different .
He was wanting a directory of all of the podcasts.
Oh, okay. No, that’s different.
No, that’s different. Yeah.
We should definitely do that.
And I’d love to get a look at that.
Yeah, I bought a domain for that, actually.
I saw it. Yeah, I saw it.
I saw it.
You know, I also – a while back, I don’t know why, but I bought PodPing.
I don’t know why.
Cool.
Yeah, but I figured iPods will be pinging something for some reason, eventually.
Oh, sure. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, well, the iPods – see, the iPods are going to have microphones in them and they’re going to record and they’re going to have a – and then basically we’re going to have a way of – It’s going to be Wi-Fi or VLAN or whatever.
It’s going to be something just blasted out and it’ll just go.
Yeah, it’ll be – yeah, yeah.
And then I thought basically maybe we should like do only on podcatch. com.
Maybe we should only publish it in OPML.
And that way, say, okay, the rendering of this directory, let’s not even say how that should happen.
Basically, our goal here is to accumulate the data and then immediately distribute that data far and wide.
So it’s just an OPML directory.
Yeah.
Oh, of course.
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, this is like a rein vention of aggregation around the idea, around audio, around iPod, right? I get emails from people saying , “Hey, don’t limit this to audio. " Oh, no, of course not.
But baby steps, baby steps, here.
No, no, no, but yeah, exactly.
And the thing is that, as contrary as it sounds, I think, yeah, you got to limit it to audio.
Why? Because, hey, we know how to do this now.
Yeah.
Right? And that’s new. Not only do we know how to do it, it’s like people have said, hey, Adam and Dave have just sort of decided to do this, right? Excuse me.
You know, you did the work here .
Right, yeah, right. It’s like, where have you all been? You know, we’ve been ready to do this for quite some time.
You know, last year at this time, it was the Chris Lydon show that was the thing we were putting out.
But the world wasn’t ready for it yet, and the world now is ready for it. So that’s the difference.
Also, I personally was focusing on video, wanting to do this with video, and doing that three, four years ago.
The bandwidth, it’s still not here for video, but it really wasn’t there. The distorage wasn’t big enough.
Your machine would just freak out by dealing with massive, you know, 300 meg files.
And I think that’ll just handle all of them.
And you paid for the programmers, too. And you paid for the programmers instead of asking the world to do it for you.
Isn’t that amazing? It’s turned out a lot better this way. Yeah, well, that’s a secret, actually.
You know, it’s not something that everybody can do. A lot of people ask the world to do things for it, and the world kind of says, you know, well, we’ve got things to do, right? So you’ve learned the art of how to ask and then get what you want.
It’s like, it’s this sort of feedback loop that there’s got to be a win-win, you know? And then what do programmers want? And you’ve figured out how to give them that.
And, you know, I figured this one out a long time ago, is that what programmers want is acknowledgement.
They want recognition. They want to be appreciated. They want people to say, wow, you know, you really did a great job.
Your shit’s cool. It works.
Yeah.
Yeah, and that’s it. Basically, if you provide that and you really mean it, of course, if you fake it, everybody can tell that you’re doing that, right? Yeah, catch on to that.
Exactly. No soloquees, please.
Sure.
We’re looking for it. We’re looking for it.
Lots of sort of like, you know, it’s got to be win-win, two-way . It takes two to tango.
And that’s why it worked. I mean, it was like the art of sort of pulling out software.
I mean, you know, people say, you know, this is Adam Curry’s software, and they’re right.
I mean, it is Adam Curry’s software.
Even though all you did, I mean , all you did is seed the process with, hey, here’s this piece of shit that I wrote, right? I mean, I’m sorry. Very elegant piece of shit that you wrote.
And, oh, by the way, it’s not like I didn’t borrow code from all over the place to get that advice, you know? Of course.
Right.
You know, I mean that in absolute best way.
Yeah, of course. Of course. Of course.
Everything I write is a piece of shit, of course, right? Mm-hmm.
So, yeah. And then he said, basically, here’s my little thing here, and let’s not have it be just a soloquee.
Let’s make it better.
Let’s do a chorus here, right? Yeah.
And bing, and then you get like about 80.
Also, I think that something that’s probably a part of it is when you have like a Yahoo group list, and clearly I’m the owner of the group list, but I’m not, it’s not moderated . I’m not doing anything.
You know, in fact, I post, very rarely do I post anything. I’m just lurking all the way through.
I think that somehow the psychology of that, there’s something in there, you know? It’s like there’s no boss.
There’s no one trying to say how it’s, you know, what’s supposed to be right or wrong.
It’s just threads of people discussing things and getting stuff done, and even bug reports, you know? It’s like, I’ve seen lists where, you know, you write a bug report and then, you know, people just freak out.
Yeah.
And here it’s like, oh, all right, hey.
But also, you know, no one’s saying, hey, man, you really, you broke this shit, you fucked it up, which happened just to me just today with iPod or X.
I don’t know what happened.
But, you know, it’s like no big deal. Everyone’s in this for just to make it better.
All right, so I’ll type in on the URLs again. Done, you know? Yep.
It does work both ways.
Wait, it’s how users and developers party together.
Oh, where have I heard that before? Wait a minute, wait a minute.
You’re not allowed to say that here.
I’m gonna throw it up.
Excuse me, I’m taking a little note here. That’s 10 points for Adam, you know? Hey, you want to play a song? Because I have a short song that I wanted to play.
Go for it.
And by the way, this time the song will be recorded.
Did anyone comment to you on that? Yeah, oh yeah, and not only did people comment, but I couldn’t hear it.
Well, you were supposedly recording it.
Right.
And so I played it over here.
That’s all right. It was a pretty good song.
But you heard the trade secrets , right? When we started the show, you heard, you could hear that, right? I did. I absolutely did.
Well, because I think we should play Dan Hicks, not now, but we should play it later on.
That’s right.
But something I wanted to play now, you know what? If you listen to the radio, there’s just not enough Beatles.
Don’t you think so? Do you still hear the Beatles on the radio? Adam, I got news for you. I don ’t listen to the radio. I wouldn ’t know if they were playing the Beatles or not.
All right. Here’s Eight Days a Week.
Oh, I need your love, babe.
Guess you know it’s true.
Hope you need my love, babe, just like I need you.
Hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, babe.
Eight Days a Week. Love you every day, girl.
Always on my mind. One thing I can say, girl.
Love you all the time.
Hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, girl. Eight Days a Week.
Eight Days a Week. I love you.
Eight Days a Week is not enough to show I care.
Oh, I need your love, babe.
Guess you know it’s true.
Hope you need my love, babe, just like I need you.
Oh, hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, babe.
Eight Days a Week. Eight Days a Week.
I love you. Eight Days a Week is not enough to show I care.
Love you every day, girl.
Always on my mind.
One thing I can say, girl. Love you all the time.
Hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, babe.
Eight Days a Week. Eight Days a Week.
Eight Days a Week.
Beatles on Trade Secrets. Eight Days a Week.
How did that sound on your end? It must sound a little bit tin ny, huh? It sounded great. I mean, that ’s one of the all-time fantastic Beatles songs.
I had the headphones on. It just sounded so good.
With the vocals a little off- center. I love that.
You know what I’ve been looking for? I sort of, my cue ran down .
I had nothing to listen to on my walk, so I decided to take a picture with you.
Are you running mail on that machine day or something? Are you doing anything other than this? No, not really. I’ve got AIM, the instant messaging software.
No, that should do. No, no, no, that’s okay. That should be all right.
Leave that open, because then we can chat.
I hear your fridge case in.
That’s what I hear.
Well, anyway, next time I’ll try to sneak some prints in there.
I think that, you know, there’s something else going on.
I mean, it’s nice to, for me, it’s nice to go for walks with, you know, with a morning, no, not morning coffee notes.
Other people do that with a daily source code.
No, if you listen to your own soliloquy, what is that? Master soliloquy? Oh, well, I think we don’t want to go there. Thank you very much.
But that’s a little too twisty.
I don’t know where you’re, where, oh, God, help, help, help.
Anyway, that’s dope. So, yeah, but the music, you know, when you played rock and roll, “Hoochee Coo,” I mean, that was a really, that worked really good for me with sort of what I use, you know, daily source code for . I mean, I go for my daily walk with daily source code.
Right.
And then I had this image. So, I got this print sign. It was, I don’t remember which one it was, but I think they’re all pretty much like this. It was like staying alive in, you know, in Saturday night.
And you started to walk to the beer there? Yeah, exactly. And I don’t know what people thought about what I was doing, but I know in my head I was John Travolta walking down the street in Brooklyn, weaving around, you know, doing that thing.
So, it’s the song.
Well, you can tell by the way I walk and when I’m a warm man, no time to talk.
You got it.
Yeah. I bet you I have that.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, wait, wait, wait .
I have it. I have it. I have it .
Yeah, but I can play it so everybody can hear it.
Go ahead. Play it. Let’s play it.
Okay, hold on. We’ll talk over.
What do you think? Come on.
Hold on. We’ll talk over it.
Okay.
Here we go. Here’s Dave on his morning coffee notes walk as he ’s listening to his own soliloqu y.
Yeah, see, that’s not your walk . It’s not Broadway. It’s somewhere in Brooklyn, isn’t it ? I said Brooklyn.
Okay, I thought you said Broadway.
No.
I’m a warm man. No time to talk .
Yeah. All right. So anyway, so that’s… Was that you? Did you do that? Yeah, I’m actually the fourth B G.
Surely you’d have heard of me.
I had the hair going for me.
You sure did have the hair going. Ah, you had another career.
So anyway, I gather you hadn’t heard my promise because it’s become like almost urban legend .
No, you did.
The whole iPodder community is all over it.
I mean, yeah, I’ve made a promise and I’m going to stick to the promise that I will get a Mac and I will use it if… John Kerry is elected president of the United States.
I can hear the polls tilting as we speak.
So basically, you know, otherwise the way I figure it is I’m going to be using all my money and spending a lot of time packing up to get the hell out of this place.
You know, I heard John Perry Barlow said it great. He sent out one of his Barlow friends' emails today.
Apparently, I’m not on that list.
No, I don’t think you are. If you haven’t heard this, I mean, like, well, only… Well, you’re on Trade Secrets.
Hit me with it.
Exactly. So you get the… Do you get the juicy stuff anyway? And he’s just coming back from Germany and he says, you know, the Germans, the whole country told him that basically… And this is something that I sort of figured out myself is that, you know, we can forgive you for electing Bush once.
You didn’t really know, but you reelect him.
Then we’re going to realize the problem isn’t just with your government.
It’s with you.
The problem is a little deeper than that, you know, sort of like… And not that Germany is going to, like, you know, be a big, you know, like they’re not going to nuke us and they’re nice, basically nice people.
Well, Germany has a major economic crisis on their hands.
You know, they could really use a healthy America.
Believe me, it’s bad.
Adam, we could use a healthy America over here in America, too.
Sure. But you know what happened with Germany is when the wall came down, which was in our lifetime, then the, you know, the East just became totally unnecessary.
Everyone went west and it’s just their town’s dying, you know, they have no reason for existence.
Yeah.
It’s horrible. It really is.
Yeah.
And Germany, they need… They need a big market.
They need a rack like they need a hole in the head, right? Fuck an A.
Yeah.
Fuck an A.
So Thomas Friedman is the big thing everybody’s talking about today. He came back from a sab batical New York Times columnist and basically said, you know, everything Bush is doing is wrong, but we might want to re elect him.
That went over really well. I think basically here what’s happening in the United States now is that, you know, finally there’s actually, you’re getting a chance to see Bush outside of the envelope that he ’s created for himself where, you know, basically he only ever talks to people, you know, who support him.
And he had to exist in an environment where, you know, one guy was neutral and the other guy was trying to get him out of office.
And, you know, that’s why I’m looking away with it.
Did you have a chance to see the John Stewart election debate coverage? No, I didn’t.
Oh, okay. Yeah, I downloaded it . There’s a bit torrent. I’ll send you the torrent file.
There’s at least 200 seeds.
Everyone’s all over it. It is so good.
I can’t wait.
Oh, yeah. It’s fantastic.
And the quality of the recording is great, too.
And I’m going to watch the commercials five times just so that everybody, you know, Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately, the commercials have been edited out. I wish they left the commercials in. I like the commercials. Some of them.
Yeah.
We can get American commercials over here.
Anyway, now I have a little, let’s have a little commercial, almost commercial message. This isn’t quite, you know, Blager Con, right? It’s coming up November 6th in Palo Alto and at Stanford Law School.
I hope you don’t talk about fucking podcasting there.
Well, matter of fact, you are talking about podcasting there, as you mentioned it.
In fact, you’re the guy that’s doing it. And this is going to be really cool because I believe this will be the first conference where podcasting is going to be up front and center .
Yeah.
And a lot of podcasting people, including yourself.
And at Nome Dex, there was a lot of good conversation about it, but not a lot of people there had experience.
And now, in November 6th, I think a lot more people will be exposed to it.
Right. Right. And so I think that in anticipation of that, we ought to be thinking about, well, what do we want to get done there? We want to podcast everything.
That’s what we want to get done .
Yeah. It’s an incredible opportunity to actually do what we’re talking about in a sort of community fashion.
So let’s start a conversation on that. That’s basically what I wanted to say today.
Well, here’s just as it pert ains to podcasting and Blogger Con. Obviously, what you want is you want a podcast of as many of, if not all of, the sessions , all of the discussions.
Right. Yes. Well, let’s prioritize.
First and foremost, we want a podcast of the podcasting session. Right.
Okay. I mean, that, that.
Oops. Hold on, Dave. Are you still there? Yeah, I’m here.
Yeah, I’m sorry. We lost you.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay. So I don’t know if you heard me, but we want the podcasting session.
Right. We’ve got to have a podcast of that. Then we need to, then I think basically every other session.
And what that takes now, the most sessions that are happening simultaneously is four. Okay. There’s one time when there’s four simultaneous sessions.
Wow. That’s a lot.
Well, where it goes.
Yeah. I hear you.
Yeah.
And podcasting.
It’s almost imperative that every single one is podcast.
Right. Of course it is. Because if you can only get to one of them, then, you know, what are you going to do? Yeah, you’re going to miss the other ones.
So everybody, everybody, whether you’re there or not, will miss some of what’s happening at the conference.
But, you know, I’ve tried to design the grid in such a way that, you know, it sort of like starts off unified where everybody’s in the room together, you know, and we all have sort of a common beginning .
And then I didn’t schedule anything opposite podcasting session because, you know, I don’t think that anybody would go to anything.
I mean, I know, like, this will , you know, it sounds like I’m stroking you, but I just think it’s true that I don’t think that anybody would go to anything other than that.
So that’ll be all by itself.
And then it fans out.
Then we have two, then we have three, and four.
Dave, can you hold on one second? Can you hold on one second? Yeah.
I love you.
Are you new to, are you new slo b? I’m sorry.
Patricia’s going to bed.
I didn’t know.
Tell her that you’re having your play date.
I’m having my play date, but she knows what.
Yeah, you know.
That’s what.
Yeah.
This is shit.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, well, first of all, the podcasting session, I ’ll personally be responsible for that.
Okay.
And are you sure you want to do that because you have other responsibilities.
You have to lead a discussion about podcasting.
So I’m not sure I go along with that.
I mean, it would be, I feel better if we had you leading the discussion and somebody else being responsible for the podcast for it.
But on the other hand, if you ’re willing to take, you know, I mean, you can’t.
Well, basically, what we’re talking about is just recording the session.
I mean, I just want to make sure that we’re talking about the same thing.
So.
Well, let’s go through what we ’re talking about.
Basically, you need to have your laptop and you need to have a microphone to have something that records the session and plenty of hard disk space.
Lots of hard disk space because it’s an hour and 15 minutes.
Yeah.
And but and then of course, everybody says the hard part is how do you get all the sound that’s in the room to come through one microphone.
And that depends on the facilities there.
That’s what it gets complicated .
Yeah.
That’s what it gets problematic .
Okay.
Because then it depends on facilities and that’s where in past experience where everything gets all screwed up because that ends up getting coordinated at the last minute.
And then like, for example, at the last blogger con, we not only didn’t have any webcast, but we didn’t even have any MP3 s at all.
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing came out.
It’s gone.
It’s lost.
Yeah.
I don’t know if it’s gone and lost, but I sure don’t have it.
So that’s pretty close to gone and lost as far as I’m concerned.
So, you know, if you set the target a little bit lower, then maybe you have better chance of achieving it.
The thing to know is that I will be at Stanford on Thursday and Friday of next week.
So if there are questions that need to be asked and information needs to be gotten, it’d be helpful to have all that sort of in a sort of here are the questions.
And I can try to get the answers.
Hey, besides the people who are leading the discussions, the sessions, they, who else is coming? Oh, wow.
I hear what you just said.
I think we’re really – No, I said besides the people who are leading the sessions, who else is coming? Well, go to www. bloggercon. org/ .
I think it’s registrants.
Some pretty – it’s great people. I mean, lots of blog gers, of course.
And I don’t know. I haven’t memorized that.
Why? I was interested.
But I’m not going to go switch to my browser now.
Am I dropping out? Can you hear me at all? Because I can’t hear you at all.
I’ll call you back, okay? All right.
All right, this is always fun.
Oh, we need some more dialing music.
[Music] You there? Hello? Hello? Yeah, yeah, I’m here.
All right.
You sound terrible, though. I can’t believe that I sound good .
You sound okay.
You said – really? Because you ’re breaking up.
I can hardly understand what you’re saying.
Must be on your end.
Are we recording now? Yeah.
Are we recorded? Yeah.
Oh, we are. Okay.
Yeah.
Go ahead. We can hear you fine.
Well, I’m running out of things to say.
All right. Listen.
I got everything. I talked about Kerry – oh, wow.
One more time. I just want to say thank you to Steve Gilmore for everything that he’s done.
Total inspiration. Appreciate his enthusiasm.
You know, thanks.
It really is.
Is the new Gilmore gang up yet? No, I’ve been watching.
Yeah.
And Doc Searles. I should say to Doc Searles, too, who’s totally all over iPod – or podcasting now.
It’s wonderful to see all these people sort of – it’s like it ’s all coming together, and it’s a whole other sort of user thing happening. It’s great.
You want to play Dan Hicks? I think we got to.
Yeah.
Oh, come on.
Okay.
All right, go ahead.
All right.
People are going to know how long we were yucking at.
Good point. Hey, how long has this been? How long have we been going? It’s not that long. Hold on.
Let me check.
Man, your sound does suck.
38 minutes. Yeah. More than enough time for – 38.
– for Dan Hicks.
Yeah.
[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] At first I was attracted, but after a while, have you ever heard of the heart to get me? How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? Keep telling you day after day, like you won’t listen, you always dance that day.
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? I mean it too.
[music] [music] [music] [music] Out of three billion people, why must it be me? Oh why, why won’t you cut me loose? Just do me a favor and listen till I play.
I’m not the only checking on the rules.
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? Keep telling you day after day, but you won’t listen, you always dance that day.
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? [music] Yo, Dan Hicks, and how can I miss you when you won’t go away ? That’s a great song.
You know what’s so great about a podcast is that if you think the song sucks, then you just skip past it.
It’s like no big deal.
It’s perfect, it’s perfect.
But that was a great song.
I like it.
So many people say, “Oh man, I hate country. " And I say, “Well, it’s not really country. " But that’s American music. That and jazz, that’s American music .
Actually, I think they’re from Long Island.
Okay, you’re right. That’s not quite American.
There was something I wanted to talk to you about, because I have absolutely no experience with licensing.
I just want to say I totally can’t hear you now.
You’re a totalist.
I think it’s your machine.
Yeah, I can hear you fine.
Okay, well just don’t expect any comprehension over here.
Okay.
Talk to the people.
Yeah, well, talk to the people.
Alright Dave, teaching me how to do radio, everybody.
Oh, you really can’t hear, can you? No. That part I did hear, but it wasn’t hard.
I want to talk about MP3, because it turns out that there is a licensing fee above certain levels for MP3.
And I didn’t know that.
And I didn’t know that AAC has zero licensing fees.
Oh, I can hear you now.
Yeah.
So what I found out is that if you use MP3, if you distribute anything on MP3 commercially, after you do 100,000 in revenue , then you have to pay a license fee.
Yeah, that’s going to turn into a problem I guess, for distributing MP3.
Well, I think the market’s going to be big.
Yeah, I think that people are going to make well over 100 grand.
Why not? Yeah.
So I can barely hear you Adam, it’s like, I don’t think this is really good for discussion.
We’ll sleep on that one, and we ’ll hope that next time we have a better connection.
I think it’s probably on your end, because you’re coming through fine, but somehow, and also… Maybe Mount St. Helens Blue.
Please do not check that webcam right now, whatever you do.
I’m going to, first I’m going to.
What do you mean? Alright, I tell you what, why don’t we get the fuck out of here? Okay, great, I think we did it.
I think this is a great trade secrets.
So we’ll see you all soon.
Alright, hey take it easy Dave, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.
Right on. Bye bye.
[Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
Welcome to Trade Secrets.
I’m Adam Curry, back in Belgium .
Dave Winer in Seattle.
Yo, yo.
How you doing, Dave? Well, I’m doing great.
It’s been great.
We’ve had sunny weather here all weekend.
Oh, really? It’s been kick-out, yeah.
Well, welcome.
You know that’s not… Yeah.
I’m sorry, you were going to say something? No, no.
I was just going to say Seattle and sunny weather.
That’s not the usual thing.
I was going to say.
Well, I was in Britain over the weekend and we had rain today.
Definitely had the British weather.
Yep.
But anyway, welcome.
We got the volcano.
Trade Secrets, yeah, volcano, Mount St. Helens.
Yeah, something like that.
We’re stepping on each other’s lines today.
Yeah, we got to get into the swing here.
It’ll take a second for us to get all situated.
Now, I worked a little bit on your sound, on your audio.
It sounds better, but now it’s really enhancing all the… When you don’t talk, then it enhances all the crackling noise.
Oh, good.
So I’ll just do all the talking then.
Yeah, that would… If it sounds entirely tired, that would be good.
Nah.
Well, I listened to the last one.
The sound’s getting better, but I felt like last time it sounded like I had a huge shot of Novacaine.
I don’t know how you do that special effect, but… Actually, I’m trying to remove it.
The thing is, what really piss es me off is that Skype sounds so good, you know? I haven’t used Skype yet, and it’s just too bad.
Yeah.
Well, one step at a time.
We’re still doing this kind of the “seat of the pants” method.
That’s a very important discipline, because at some point, somebody’s going to productize the production side of this stuff, and it’s going to have to be cheap.
Did you read that thing that I posted? That I found on the… What is it? Rogue Amoeba Software weblog that they’re considering doing a podcast software package? No, I didn’t see that. That’s great.
Yeah, it’s really good.
We need to get started.
And the discussion that’s starting to get broader now… I’ve deliberately kept the discussion about iPodder stuff off scripting news, because that would have brought in a whole wave of the XML guys who bring their own energy with them, and I didn’t want to do anything to screw it up. It was going so good.
But now, the iPodder thing has its own momentum, and so I started posting a few things.
I saw you post an RFC.
Yeah, it was about time that we tell the aggregator developers that they’re really close to having the iPodder user interface, the reading interface.
They’re really close to having it.
And we might as well figure out exactly how close they all are, so that if they want to support it, they know how to do that.
But the thing I want to say is, because this is going to be probably heard by a lot of iPod ders, is that they’re all really nice people.
Yeah, aren’t they? Isn’t it a nice bunch? Yeah. Oh man, when they disagree with you, it’s like, " Oh, cool. " And then you come back and say, “Well, there’s a reason why I want to do it that way. " And they go, “Oh, well, that’s no problem. " Yeah, that’s good.
And then they go, “Wow, this reminds me of something like the good old days or whatever. " But I just wanted to say that there’s just a ton of really good energy that reminds me of the early days of any platform or developer community.
And sort of enjoy this period.
We’re going to look back on this.
It’s going to really, you know, this is the, but yeah, we’ve got a lot of work to do because we’ve only begun to really solve one of the three sort of sides to the triangle.
The other, you know, the listening side, and then there ’s the production side, which is what you were just talking about.
And then there’s the serving side.
And the production and serving are going to become really important.
They already are really important.
And because this thing is accelerating so quickly, I think that the importance of those things is also going to accelerate quickly.
And I had sort of a flash on this that if the desktop, if the laptop computers we were using weren’t such hair balls, weren’t such, you know, awfully overburdened pieces of software , which is really what they are, right? I mean, the hardware is great.
I mean, you’ve got multiple gig ahertz machines with gigabytes of hard drive space and even a gigabyte of RAM, whatever, you know, they fully capable as hardware.
But as software, they’re so utterly crippled that it’s, you know, look at all these devices you carry with you, Adam.
Why do you think you carry all those devices? Why couldn’t your laptop do what the iPod does? You know, okay, it’s smaller, so you don’t want to carry the laptop.
Well, I’ve just bought a really small laptop, right? And it’s because the software sucks.
And, you know, so we need to, I think, envision another piece of hardware for the production side.
Maybe on the Mac you don’t, but I think on Windows it’s going to have to be something like a mixer.
Oh, and you mean a hardware mixer, you think? Yeah, I don’t know.
It shouldn’t be necessary.
I mean, it shouldn’t be necessary at all.
It’s just no one’s really, no, not at all.
And there’s so much processing power.
And what was it, what were we listening to this weekend? Oh, the Nome Dex conference.
Yeah.
And Steve Gilmore, who was like , whoa, man, we got to give him some pom-poms, Dave.
Really? Steve is our cheerleader.
Oh, man, he’s such a cheer leader for podcasting.
He’s a good guy.
Really, I was, we were sitting there in the inn, and I had, I was listening to it streaming live, and Patricia was sitting there.
And it was just all these nice words.
It was just really great.
But, you know, he sees, I think at one point he said, what, you know, what we’re doing with podcasting, we are delivering equal to or even better production value than, you know, a big, a quote, big production company or radio facility.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s true , though.
Well, when you listen to how our audio is today, now I’d agree.
I mean, it was really funny that right as I said that, the whole thing dropped to the floor.
I couldn’t hear it.
I’ve been saying this, wait, wait, wait, let me just get this out, because I’ve been saying this to you privately.
I want to sort of say it out to , like, the universe, is that we really, I think, need to talk to somebody, a person, who understands how voiceover IP works.
And so that we could optimize this.
You know, we both got really good net connections.
It seems to me that we should be able to get out of this, although it’s amazing to think what is actually working for us .
What’s actually happening is already cool.
But it seems like the software that has the transmission part together doesn’t have the sound together and then vice versa.
So it’s just a matter of, you know, someone’s going to hit it .
I mean, it’s all there.
But it’s not going to be somebody that I know.
It’s not going to come out of the content management world or the XML world or the database.
So the stuff that I know here, I’m a user and I’m not even a very knowledgeable user with this.
The engineering of this stuff, it’s like there’s all these companies that do sound software.
Those are the guys.
And then you have to take what they know and you have to do some really, really good user interface on it so that, you know, so you don’t have to be an expert at using sound software to actually create something here.
Because frankly, I mean, to have something to say, you don ’t need to be an expert in sound software.
So we should be able to make it so that you just, you know, simplify it or make it so that the default settings are just giving you a pretty good result .
Sort of like we have, I bought an icon camera, you know, CoolP ix, whatever, 3200.
And I think of it as like the brownie camera of the 21st century.
I mean, it’s just, you point at something, you click the shutter, it takes a picture, you do it again, and out of that, you know, maybe one tenth of them are really good.
And that’s, I think, amazing.
You know, it’s an incredible thing.
You don’t want that big cannon with interchangeable lenses.
But Dave, you, hold on.
You can’t, you can’t, you need certain things to do this type of production.
You can’t just oversimplify it.
You know, it’s never going to be push button for audio stuff.
It just never will be.
But it is push button for me, Adam. It is right now push button for me.
Oh yeah, if you’re talking about just recording your mic, agree. Then it’s totally push button.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No, it’s push button for me in trade secrets. It’s push button for me.
Yeah.
You’re, I mean, I know that you ’ve got a whole complicated thing and I really appreciate you’re doing that.
But it’s an important point to be made, okay? Is that I’m not learning all the ins and outs. You’re all I ’m doing is putting on a microphone and headphones.
Yeah.
And we’re having, you know, these chats which says there may be a role for service bureau.
Okay. There may be a role for some back end.
Okay.
That makes it really easy.
Yeah, I got you.
You see where I’m going? Yeah, I’m with you.
Yeah.
Okay.
In other words, yeah, if you need to have a rocket science test around, well, could I rent one just for a few hours or do I need to buy it? Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. You’re right.
Well, that’s very interesting.
I hadn’t thought about that.
That’s really good.
Think about it.
Think about it.
That’s really good.
We’re thinking about it.
Yeah.
Well, I’m excited about these rogue Amoeba guys because they already do Audio Hijack Pro, which I’m using now.
You know, they do, everything I ’ve used from them has contributed to getting the job done.
Wow.
And, you know, he says, well, I ’m not, you know, I posted it.
I forget the guy’s name, but he said, you know, I got to check into this podcast thing.
You know, we’re not just going to start up a new product overnight, but, yeah, I think that might happen with it.
All the press is coming.
Yeah.
It changes too.
Yeah, he’ll get pretty interested.
That’s something that you and I can see that, can’t see, but that while there’s a lot of buzz on the web about this, there’s also coming a lot of, you know, ink is going to be spent on this too.
Oh, already? I mean, you’ve done interviews.
I’ve got four for tomorrow.
It’s unbelievable.
Well, reporters like this.
This is like word processing.
You know, word processing stuck in the 80s.
Much more than spreadsheets because – Well, this is what reporters use.
Right.
And here, this may not be exactly what reporters use, but any reporter that has a radio background goes totally apeshit over there.
Yeah, understands.
This is what they’ve been living for.
This is like the print reporters, you know, it’s a 10- year time shift.
In 1994, the writers, you know, people who wrote for newspapers and magazines, the really good ones, the really ones that had a vision that were idealistic, you know, the web came along and that just juiced them.
You know, that was what they were waiting for, basically.
Ten years later, it’s radio.
Yeah.
And that’s where we’re at right now.
And it’s wonderful.
I mean, to me, well, I’ve said this before.
It’s not – you know.
Do you remember your first radio, Dave? Do you remember your first radio? Oh, extremely well.
It was – like you said, it was the transistor radio that made rock and roll happen.
My grandfather gave me – Doc Searle said that.
I have to give him props there.
Doc Searle said that.
Oh, Doc Searle.
Sorry, you’re right.
It was Doc.
You see, this all blends in.
But my grandfather, my paternal grandfather, which is really strange because he was like, by far the less hip of the two grandfathers I had, gave me this really sort of like iPod- sized, you know, thing and I would listen to it, W-A-B-C-A-M.
Was it a Sony with a blue leatherette case? No, it wasn’t.
It was huge, cheap.
Oh, that’s right.
No, no, I had a Sony, man.
I couldn’t believe it.
It felt so heavy and massive and it was really tiny though.
No.
It was AM on it.
I later on – later on I had one of those, too.
But I just remember like being six or seven or something like that and listening to it under the blankets at night when I wasn’t supposed to be doing it.
Yeah, exactly the same.
I listened to basketball games.
What I would say is, wow, this is cool.
It turned out to be what I sought in my whole life.
That was the theme of my life, basically.
Yeah, the first transistor radio was a heavy duty thing.
Oh, before I forget, just to go back to your RFC for iPodder, for, you know, yeah, an iPodder .
Today I saw on the list a iPod der Java was released and iPod der for Windows which uses . NET, I think.
But, you know, I installed the Java one.
Of course, I didn’t install the Windows one, but it says it has a system tray icon.
And, yeah, you know, that’s – now it’s really moving.
Now everyone’s just popping release after release out.
Maybe we should start a directory.
I got an email on that.
Somebody sent an email.
Did you hear on the source code , Gregory has kindly offered to be curator of all things iPod der and do a directory? Oh, sure. Yeah, I did. I thought that was for the software, though.
Yeah, it is.
Mike Freeman, who I used to know from Symantec, sent an email and he said he was looking for something different .
He was wanting a directory of all of the podcasts.
Oh, okay. No, that’s different.
No, that’s different. Yeah.
We should definitely do that.
And I’d love to get a look at that.
Yeah, I bought a domain for that, actually.
I saw it. Yeah, I saw it.
I saw it.
You know, I also – a while back, I don’t know why, but I bought PodPing.
I don’t know why.
Cool.
Yeah, but I figured iPods will be pinging something for some reason, eventually.
Oh, sure. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, well, the iPods – see, the iPods are going to have microphones in them and they’re going to record and they’re going to have a – and then basically we’re going to have a way of – It’s going to be Wi-Fi or VLAN or whatever.
It’s going to be something just blasted out and it’ll just go.
Yeah, it’ll be – yeah, yeah.
And then I thought basically maybe we should like do only on podcatch. com.
Maybe we should only publish it in OPML.
And that way, say, okay, the rendering of this directory, let’s not even say how that should happen.
Basically, our goal here is to accumulate the data and then immediately distribute that data far and wide.
So it’s just an OPML directory.
Yeah.
Oh, of course.
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, this is like a rein vention of aggregation around the idea, around audio, around iPod, right? I get emails from people saying , “Hey, don’t limit this to audio. " Oh, no, of course not.
But baby steps, baby steps, here.
No, no, no, but yeah, exactly.
And the thing is that, as contrary as it sounds, I think, yeah, you got to limit it to audio.
Why? Because, hey, we know how to do this now.
Yeah.
Right? And that’s new. Not only do we know how to do it, it’s like people have said, hey, Adam and Dave have just sort of decided to do this, right? Excuse me.
You know, you did the work here .
Right, yeah, right. It’s like, where have you all been? You know, we’ve been ready to do this for quite some time.
You know, last year at this time, it was the Chris Lydon show that was the thing we were putting out.
But the world wasn’t ready for it yet, and the world now is ready for it. So that’s the difference.
Also, I personally was focusing on video, wanting to do this with video, and doing that three, four years ago.
The bandwidth, it’s still not here for video, but it really wasn’t there. The distorage wasn’t big enough.
Your machine would just freak out by dealing with massive, you know, 300 meg files.
And I think that’ll just handle all of them.
And you paid for the programmers, too. And you paid for the programmers instead of asking the world to do it for you.
Isn’t that amazing? It’s turned out a lot better this way. Yeah, well, that’s a secret, actually.
You know, it’s not something that everybody can do. A lot of people ask the world to do things for it, and the world kind of says, you know, well, we’ve got things to do, right? So you’ve learned the art of how to ask and then get what you want.
It’s like, it’s this sort of feedback loop that there’s got to be a win-win, you know? And then what do programmers want? And you’ve figured out how to give them that.
And, you know, I figured this one out a long time ago, is that what programmers want is acknowledgement.
They want recognition. They want to be appreciated. They want people to say, wow, you know, you really did a great job.
Your shit’s cool. It works.
Yeah.
Yeah, and that’s it. Basically, if you provide that and you really mean it, of course, if you fake it, everybody can tell that you’re doing that, right? Yeah, catch on to that.
Exactly. No soloquees, please.
Sure.
We’re looking for it. We’re looking for it.
Lots of sort of like, you know, it’s got to be win-win, two-way . It takes two to tango.
And that’s why it worked. I mean, it was like the art of sort of pulling out software.
I mean, you know, people say, you know, this is Adam Curry’s software, and they’re right.
I mean, it is Adam Curry’s software.
Even though all you did, I mean , all you did is seed the process with, hey, here’s this piece of shit that I wrote, right? I mean, I’m sorry. Very elegant piece of shit that you wrote.
And, oh, by the way, it’s not like I didn’t borrow code from all over the place to get that advice, you know? Of course.
Right.
You know, I mean that in absolute best way.
Yeah, of course. Of course. Of course.
Everything I write is a piece of shit, of course, right? Mm-hmm.
So, yeah. And then he said, basically, here’s my little thing here, and let’s not have it be just a soloquee.
Let’s make it better.
Let’s do a chorus here, right? Yeah.
And bing, and then you get like about 80.
Also, I think that something that’s probably a part of it is when you have like a Yahoo group list, and clearly I’m the owner of the group list, but I’m not, it’s not moderated . I’m not doing anything.
You know, in fact, I post, very rarely do I post anything. I’m just lurking all the way through.
I think that somehow the psychology of that, there’s something in there, you know? It’s like there’s no boss.
There’s no one trying to say how it’s, you know, what’s supposed to be right or wrong.
It’s just threads of people discussing things and getting stuff done, and even bug reports, you know? It’s like, I’ve seen lists where, you know, you write a bug report and then, you know, people just freak out.
Yeah.
And here it’s like, oh, all right, hey.
But also, you know, no one’s saying, hey, man, you really, you broke this shit, you fucked it up, which happened just to me just today with iPod or X.
I don’t know what happened.
But, you know, it’s like no big deal. Everyone’s in this for just to make it better.
All right, so I’ll type in on the URLs again. Done, you know? Yep.
It does work both ways.
Wait, it’s how users and developers party together.
Oh, where have I heard that before? Wait a minute, wait a minute.
You’re not allowed to say that here.
I’m gonna throw it up.
Excuse me, I’m taking a little note here. That’s 10 points for Adam, you know? Hey, you want to play a song? Because I have a short song that I wanted to play.
Go for it.
And by the way, this time the song will be recorded.
Did anyone comment to you on that? Yeah, oh yeah, and not only did people comment, but I couldn’t hear it.
Well, you were supposedly recording it.
Right.
And so I played it over here.
That’s all right. It was a pretty good song.
But you heard the trade secrets , right? When we started the show, you heard, you could hear that, right? I did. I absolutely did.
Well, because I think we should play Dan Hicks, not now, but we should play it later on.
That’s right.
But something I wanted to play now, you know what? If you listen to the radio, there’s just not enough Beatles.
Don’t you think so? Do you still hear the Beatles on the radio? Adam, I got news for you. I don ’t listen to the radio. I wouldn ’t know if they were playing the Beatles or not.
All right. Here’s Eight Days a Week.
Oh, I need your love, babe.
Guess you know it’s true.
Hope you need my love, babe, just like I need you.
Hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, babe.
Eight Days a Week. Love you every day, girl.
Always on my mind. One thing I can say, girl.
Love you all the time.
Hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, girl. Eight Days a Week.
Eight Days a Week. I love you.
Eight Days a Week is not enough to show I care.
Oh, I need your love, babe.
Guess you know it’s true.
Hope you need my love, babe, just like I need you.
Oh, hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, babe.
Eight Days a Week. Eight Days a Week.
I love you. Eight Days a Week is not enough to show I care.
Love you every day, girl.
Always on my mind.
One thing I can say, girl. Love you all the time.
Hold me, love me, hold me, love me.
Ain’t got nothing but love, babe.
Eight Days a Week. Eight Days a Week.
Eight Days a Week.
Beatles on Trade Secrets. Eight Days a Week.
How did that sound on your end? It must sound a little bit tin ny, huh? It sounded great. I mean, that ’s one of the all-time fantastic Beatles songs.
I had the headphones on. It just sounded so good.
With the vocals a little off- center. I love that.
You know what I’ve been looking for? I sort of, my cue ran down .
I had nothing to listen to on my walk, so I decided to take a picture with you.
Are you running mail on that machine day or something? Are you doing anything other than this? No, not really. I’ve got AIM, the instant messaging software.
No, that should do. No, no, no, that’s okay. That should be all right.
Leave that open, because then we can chat.
I hear your fridge case in.
That’s what I hear.
Well, anyway, next time I’ll try to sneak some prints in there.
I think that, you know, there’s something else going on.
I mean, it’s nice to, for me, it’s nice to go for walks with, you know, with a morning, no, not morning coffee notes.
Other people do that with a daily source code.
No, if you listen to your own soliloquy, what is that? Master soliloquy? Oh, well, I think we don’t want to go there. Thank you very much.
But that’s a little too twisty.
I don’t know where you’re, where, oh, God, help, help, help.
Anyway, that’s dope. So, yeah, but the music, you know, when you played rock and roll, “Hoochee Coo,” I mean, that was a really, that worked really good for me with sort of what I use, you know, daily source code for . I mean, I go for my daily walk with daily source code.
Right.
And then I had this image. So, I got this print sign. It was, I don’t remember which one it was, but I think they’re all pretty much like this. It was like staying alive in, you know, in Saturday night.
And you started to walk to the beer there? Yeah, exactly. And I don’t know what people thought about what I was doing, but I know in my head I was John Travolta walking down the street in Brooklyn, weaving around, you know, doing that thing.
So, it’s the song.
Well, you can tell by the way I walk and when I’m a warm man, no time to talk.
You got it.
Yeah. I bet you I have that.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, wait, wait, wait .
I have it. I have it. I have it .
Yeah, but I can play it so everybody can hear it.
Go ahead. Play it. Let’s play it.
Okay, hold on. We’ll talk over.
What do you think? Come on.
Hold on. We’ll talk over it.
Okay.
Here we go. Here’s Dave on his morning coffee notes walk as he ’s listening to his own soliloqu y.
Yeah, see, that’s not your walk . It’s not Broadway. It’s somewhere in Brooklyn, isn’t it ? I said Brooklyn.
Okay, I thought you said Broadway.
No.
I’m a warm man. No time to talk .
Yeah. All right. So anyway, so that’s… Was that you? Did you do that? Yeah, I’m actually the fourth B G.
Surely you’d have heard of me.
I had the hair going for me.
You sure did have the hair going. Ah, you had another career.
So anyway, I gather you hadn’t heard my promise because it’s become like almost urban legend .
No, you did.
The whole iPodder community is all over it.
I mean, yeah, I’ve made a promise and I’m going to stick to the promise that I will get a Mac and I will use it if… John Kerry is elected president of the United States.
I can hear the polls tilting as we speak.
So basically, you know, otherwise the way I figure it is I’m going to be using all my money and spending a lot of time packing up to get the hell out of this place.
You know, I heard John Perry Barlow said it great. He sent out one of his Barlow friends' emails today.
Apparently, I’m not on that list.
No, I don’t think you are. If you haven’t heard this, I mean, like, well, only… Well, you’re on Trade Secrets.
Hit me with it.
Exactly. So you get the… Do you get the juicy stuff anyway? And he’s just coming back from Germany and he says, you know, the Germans, the whole country told him that basically… And this is something that I sort of figured out myself is that, you know, we can forgive you for electing Bush once.
You didn’t really know, but you reelect him.
Then we’re going to realize the problem isn’t just with your government.
It’s with you.
The problem is a little deeper than that, you know, sort of like… And not that Germany is going to, like, you know, be a big, you know, like they’re not going to nuke us and they’re nice, basically nice people.
Well, Germany has a major economic crisis on their hands.
You know, they could really use a healthy America.
Believe me, it’s bad.
Adam, we could use a healthy America over here in America, too.
Sure. But you know what happened with Germany is when the wall came down, which was in our lifetime, then the, you know, the East just became totally unnecessary.
Everyone went west and it’s just their town’s dying, you know, they have no reason for existence.
Yeah.
It’s horrible. It really is.
Yeah.
And Germany, they need… They need a big market.
They need a rack like they need a hole in the head, right? Fuck an A.
Yeah.
Fuck an A.
So Thomas Friedman is the big thing everybody’s talking about today. He came back from a sab batical New York Times columnist and basically said, you know, everything Bush is doing is wrong, but we might want to re elect him.
That went over really well. I think basically here what’s happening in the United States now is that, you know, finally there’s actually, you’re getting a chance to see Bush outside of the envelope that he ’s created for himself where, you know, basically he only ever talks to people, you know, who support him.
And he had to exist in an environment where, you know, one guy was neutral and the other guy was trying to get him out of office.
And, you know, that’s why I’m looking away with it.
Did you have a chance to see the John Stewart election debate coverage? No, I didn’t.
Oh, okay. Yeah, I downloaded it . There’s a bit torrent. I’ll send you the torrent file.
There’s at least 200 seeds.
Everyone’s all over it. It is so good.
I can’t wait.
Oh, yeah. It’s fantastic.
And the quality of the recording is great, too.
And I’m going to watch the commercials five times just so that everybody, you know, Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately, the commercials have been edited out. I wish they left the commercials in. I like the commercials. Some of them.
Yeah.
We can get American commercials over here.
Anyway, now I have a little, let’s have a little commercial, almost commercial message. This isn’t quite, you know, Blager Con, right? It’s coming up November 6th in Palo Alto and at Stanford Law School.
I hope you don’t talk about fucking podcasting there.
Well, matter of fact, you are talking about podcasting there, as you mentioned it.
In fact, you’re the guy that’s doing it. And this is going to be really cool because I believe this will be the first conference where podcasting is going to be up front and center .
Yeah.
And a lot of podcasting people, including yourself.
And at Nome Dex, there was a lot of good conversation about it, but not a lot of people there had experience.
And now, in November 6th, I think a lot more people will be exposed to it.
Right. Right. And so I think that in anticipation of that, we ought to be thinking about, well, what do we want to get done there? We want to podcast everything.
That’s what we want to get done .
Yeah. It’s an incredible opportunity to actually do what we’re talking about in a sort of community fashion.
So let’s start a conversation on that. That’s basically what I wanted to say today.
Well, here’s just as it pert ains to podcasting and Blogger Con. Obviously, what you want is you want a podcast of as many of, if not all of, the sessions , all of the discussions.
Right. Yes. Well, let’s prioritize.
First and foremost, we want a podcast of the podcasting session. Right.
Okay. I mean, that, that.
Oops. Hold on, Dave. Are you still there? Yeah, I’m here.
Yeah, I’m sorry. We lost you.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay. So I don’t know if you heard me, but we want the podcasting session.
Right. We’ve got to have a podcast of that. Then we need to, then I think basically every other session.
And what that takes now, the most sessions that are happening simultaneously is four. Okay. There’s one time when there’s four simultaneous sessions.
Wow. That’s a lot.
Well, where it goes.
Yeah. I hear you.
Yeah.
And podcasting.
It’s almost imperative that every single one is podcast.
Right. Of course it is. Because if you can only get to one of them, then, you know, what are you going to do? Yeah, you’re going to miss the other ones.
So everybody, everybody, whether you’re there or not, will miss some of what’s happening at the conference.
But, you know, I’ve tried to design the grid in such a way that, you know, it sort of like starts off unified where everybody’s in the room together, you know, and we all have sort of a common beginning .
And then I didn’t schedule anything opposite podcasting session because, you know, I don’t think that anybody would go to anything.
I mean, I know, like, this will , you know, it sounds like I’m stroking you, but I just think it’s true that I don’t think that anybody would go to anything other than that.
So that’ll be all by itself.
And then it fans out.
Then we have two, then we have three, and four.
Dave, can you hold on one second? Can you hold on one second? Yeah.
I love you.
Are you new to, are you new slo b? I’m sorry.
Patricia’s going to bed.
I didn’t know.
Tell her that you’re having your play date.
I’m having my play date, but she knows what.
Yeah, you know.
That’s what.
Yeah.
This is shit.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, well, first of all, the podcasting session, I ’ll personally be responsible for that.
Okay.
And are you sure you want to do that because you have other responsibilities.
You have to lead a discussion about podcasting.
So I’m not sure I go along with that.
I mean, it would be, I feel better if we had you leading the discussion and somebody else being responsible for the podcast for it.
But on the other hand, if you ’re willing to take, you know, I mean, you can’t.
Well, basically, what we’re talking about is just recording the session.
I mean, I just want to make sure that we’re talking about the same thing.
So.
Well, let’s go through what we ’re talking about.
Basically, you need to have your laptop and you need to have a microphone to have something that records the session and plenty of hard disk space.
Lots of hard disk space because it’s an hour and 15 minutes.
Yeah.
And but and then of course, everybody says the hard part is how do you get all the sound that’s in the room to come through one microphone.
And that depends on the facilities there.
That’s what it gets complicated .
Yeah.
That’s what it gets problematic .
Okay.
Because then it depends on facilities and that’s where in past experience where everything gets all screwed up because that ends up getting coordinated at the last minute.
And then like, for example, at the last blogger con, we not only didn’t have any webcast, but we didn’t even have any MP3 s at all.
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing came out.
It’s gone.
It’s lost.
Yeah.
I don’t know if it’s gone and lost, but I sure don’t have it.
So that’s pretty close to gone and lost as far as I’m concerned.
So, you know, if you set the target a little bit lower, then maybe you have better chance of achieving it.
The thing to know is that I will be at Stanford on Thursday and Friday of next week.
So if there are questions that need to be asked and information needs to be gotten, it’d be helpful to have all that sort of in a sort of here are the questions.
And I can try to get the answers.
Hey, besides the people who are leading the discussions, the sessions, they, who else is coming? Oh, wow.
I hear what you just said.
I think we’re really – No, I said besides the people who are leading the sessions, who else is coming? Well, go to www. bloggercon. org/ .
I think it’s registrants.
Some pretty – it’s great people. I mean, lots of blog gers, of course.
And I don’t know. I haven’t memorized that.
Why? I was interested.
But I’m not going to go switch to my browser now.
Am I dropping out? Can you hear me at all? Because I can’t hear you at all.
I’ll call you back, okay? All right.
All right, this is always fun.
Oh, we need some more dialing music.
[Music] You there? Hello? Hello? Yeah, yeah, I’m here.
All right.
You sound terrible, though. I can’t believe that I sound good .
You sound okay.
You said – really? Because you ’re breaking up.
I can hardly understand what you’re saying.
Must be on your end.
Are we recording now? Yeah.
Are we recorded? Yeah.
Oh, we are. Okay.
Yeah.
Go ahead. We can hear you fine.
Well, I’m running out of things to say.
All right. Listen.
I got everything. I talked about Kerry – oh, wow.
One more time. I just want to say thank you to Steve Gilmore for everything that he’s done.
Total inspiration. Appreciate his enthusiasm.
You know, thanks.
It really is.
Is the new Gilmore gang up yet? No, I’ve been watching.
Yeah.
And Doc Searles. I should say to Doc Searles, too, who’s totally all over iPod – or podcasting now.
It’s wonderful to see all these people sort of – it’s like it ’s all coming together, and it’s a whole other sort of user thing happening. It’s great.
You want to play Dan Hicks? I think we got to.
Yeah.
Oh, come on.
Okay.
All right, go ahead.
All right.
People are going to know how long we were yucking at.
Good point. Hey, how long has this been? How long have we been going? It’s not that long. Hold on.
Let me check.
Man, your sound does suck.
38 minutes. Yeah. More than enough time for – 38.
– for Dan Hicks.
Yeah.
[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] At first I was attracted, but after a while, have you ever heard of the heart to get me? How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? Keep telling you day after day, like you won’t listen, you always dance that day.
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? I mean it too.
[music] [music] [music] [music] Out of three billion people, why must it be me? Oh why, why won’t you cut me loose? Just do me a favor and listen till I play.
I’m not the only checking on the rules.
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? Keep telling you day after day, but you won’t listen, you always dance that day.
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? [music] Yo, Dan Hicks, and how can I miss you when you won’t go away ? That’s a great song.
You know what’s so great about a podcast is that if you think the song sucks, then you just skip past it.
It’s like no big deal.
It’s perfect, it’s perfect.
But that was a great song.
I like it.
So many people say, “Oh man, I hate country. " And I say, “Well, it’s not really country. " But that’s American music. That and jazz, that’s American music .
Actually, I think they’re from Long Island.
Okay, you’re right. That’s not quite American.
There was something I wanted to talk to you about, because I have absolutely no experience with licensing.
I just want to say I totally can’t hear you now.
You’re a totalist.
I think it’s your machine.
Yeah, I can hear you fine.
Okay, well just don’t expect any comprehension over here.
Okay.
Talk to the people.
Yeah, well, talk to the people.
Alright Dave, teaching me how to do radio, everybody.
Oh, you really can’t hear, can you? No. That part I did hear, but it wasn’t hard.
I want to talk about MP3, because it turns out that there is a licensing fee above certain levels for MP3.
And I didn’t know that.
And I didn’t know that AAC has zero licensing fees.
Oh, I can hear you now.
Yeah.
So what I found out is that if you use MP3, if you distribute anything on MP3 commercially, after you do 100,000 in revenue , then you have to pay a license fee.
Yeah, that’s going to turn into a problem I guess, for distributing MP3.
Well, I think the market’s going to be big.
Yeah, I think that people are going to make well over 100 grand.
Why not? Yeah.
So I can barely hear you Adam, it’s like, I don’t think this is really good for discussion.
We’ll sleep on that one, and we ’ll hope that next time we have a better connection.
I think it’s probably on your end, because you’re coming through fine, but somehow, and also… Maybe Mount St. Helens Blue.
Please do not check that webcam right now, whatever you do.
I’m going to, first I’m going to.
What do you mean? Alright, I tell you what, why don’t we get the fuck out of here? Okay, great, I think we did it.
I think this is a great trade secrets.
So we’ll see you all soon.
Alright, hey take it easy Dave, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.
Right on. Bye bye.
[Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]