Today’s Trade Secrets is about everything of importance to the world today.
The only thing we missed is Jon Stewart’s outburst about the President’s ‘group of folks’ line. Group of folks? Group of folks?, Stewart raged. A group of folks is what you run into at the Olive Garden. The President was referring to Osama bin Laden and the group of worldwide terrorist… folks. Okay.
At no extra cost, a few little soliloquys, nothing earth shaking, just little ones.
And oh yea. Mt St Helens.
This transcript was automatically generated.
(upbeat music) ♪ Throw em up, throw em up ♪ ♪ It’s trade secrets ♪ ♪ Throw em up, it’s trade secrets ♪
- Hey everybody, good morning.
Good afternoon, our good evening.
It’s trade secrets for Friday, October 1st, 2004.
I’m Adam Curry in Belgium.
- Dave Wider here at Seattle.
- And then we got our stuff
This is working now finally.
You’re sounding pretty good for the first time, Dave.
- Think so.
- Well, no, but it makes you
(laughing) Not really.
- Oops, oops.
What the fuck, oops, I, oh, actually I can say words like that.
- Of course you can say words
That’s what it’s all about.
- What the fuck, what the fuck?
- So let me just tell our
who of course were all ready to
a trade secrets this morning
that we did
during the presidential debate.
It did, we did do a show.
- We did it, we did.
- And we did, we–
- It really sucked.
- Yeah, we did it in the
business of what we call a burn
We burned the show.
It’s not like burning it to a CD.
It’s like taking the physical tape if it resisted and burning it.
Yeah, it sucked.
It was fun to sit there and watch the debate with you, but I don’t think anyone else would get a rat’s ass.
- About what we had to say.
- No, no.
You know what’s funny, I’m watching the network news show this morning and God if they aren’t spinning the whole thing in favor of Bush, it’s really unreal.
- I read something that said,
since Kerry didn’t score
a clear win, he therefore lost.
That seems to be kind of the analysis of the spin that I’m reading.
- And they’ve been bitching at
Kerry for months
because he doesn’t present a
plan for what he’s gonna do.
So this morning it was a laundry list.
- Oh really?
- What’s the guy gotta do?
Who does he have to blow?
The thing to remember is that
these are the same guys
who decided that Howard Dean
shouldn’t be the Democratic
candidate. - Shouldn’t be the
- Yeah, and they sort of feel
like that this whole thing
we do called voting is kind of
just like a little formality.
Rat’s like their position.
- Well, let’s get your analysis
on the debate, Dave.
What did you think of the debate last night?
- Kerry fucking kicked, but I
mean, George Bush,
I don’t know what they told him
in the prep for this thing,
but I went around.
The best I heard, the best analysis was in Time Magazine, where the guy said that Bush came, showed up with 30 minutes of material for a 90 minute debate.
- Yeah, I read that one too,
I believe, I agree with that because he repeated certain things 10, 11 times, and he even said, I can’t say it enough, I keep repeating myself.
Yeah, well, yeah.
- And Scott Rosenberg pointed
out that the whole bit
with the lights, which was
supposed to be Kerry’s
turned out to be Bush’s because
the light would just
stay on and Bush had nothing to
- He wasn’t being confused now and then wasn’t he?
- And Kerry, Kerry, they gave him nice lessons and he genuinely came across as a thoughtful, nice, intelligent, I love the point where Larry said, and you say that the president has been lying, and Kerry goes, well, I’ve been really careful not to actually use that word.
- Use that word, yeah.
- Right, and at that moment you
And then I thought about the, there was a thing on TV the day before with Lynn Cheney and what’s the vice president’s first name? I can’t think of it for some reason.
Richard Cheney, Dick Cheney.
- Dick Cheney, yeah.
- Yeah, I remember his wife’s
So they were on some sort of Oprah-like show, Ray’s stage in the middle of a big room, and Cheney, and they clearly had rehearsed this beforehand.
He feeds her a fat, straight man line, and she says, oh yeah, he’s got orange skin.
What is this orange thing we’re behind you of? And she says, I don’t know, should I say it? And he goes, well, what the hell? You know, she goes, oh, you’re right, Kerry’s orange skin.
And I go, wow, I mean, this is like, I don’t think they’re running for president of the United States.
- That’s like grade school stuff, man.
- Yeah, not class president of the six.
- Really, really.
- Yeah, it’s like, oh, okay, so that’s how you want to run this election.
- I gotta tell you though,
I thought John Kerry certainly
came across much better,
much more confident when he
with something Bush said.
His facial expressions were much more, and we’re just like, hey, you know, I don’t know, the president’s all wrong.
I’m gonna set him straight in a second.
And when Bush was disagreeing with stuff, he was making the most God-aw ful faces.
In fact, Yahoo, I posted a link to it, that one of the most popular pictures, they have a page, which picture ’s been viewed.
- Oh yeah?
- The most, emailed the most.
Oh, it’s hilarious.
It’s exactly one of those faces that the president was making.
- Well, you could do something with that.
- That’s ready for a photo fuck , isn’t it?
- But they had a little snippet
of John Stewart
on these this morning.
Just sort of, for whatever reason, see, man, did some kind of deal with him, ‘cause they now run little snippets.
And when Kerry does his opening intro, where he says, “But first I’d like to thank my mother “and you and God. "
- Which I thought was kind of lame, quite honestly.
- The dorky, and then Stewart
I can’t imitate this, since
this is radio.
He has that lurch-like look where he tilts his head back.
(laughing) And he goes, and then he says, “Oh, this is going to be a long , long thing. " (laughing) I go, “Right. "
- Oh shit.
- You gotta poke fun at that
The thing about Kerry is, is that he doesn’t seem to mind it if you poke fun at him.
He is, his ego seems to be intact, whereas God forbid anybody should ever, can you imagine somebody, you know, like Edwards saying that, well gee, Elizabeth, right, that’s his wife, Elizabeth.
What were we talking about, about Bush the other day? She says, “I don’t know, should I say it?”
- Or can you say brain damage? Or, remember, was the brightest light bulb anyway? (laughing)
- No, I can’t imagine that.
No, I can’t imagine that.
- No, but of course these
things actually kind of matter.
Just the slightest little bit.
- It’s not even the slightest
These things totally matter.
The way you come across in the media is so important.
- I think it also, when you’re, it matters how you come across in the room where you decide whether or not you’re gonna fire off the nukes .
- Oh yeah, sure, sure.
- I look at you and say, “Well,
I think this guy
“kind of knows what he’s doing
‘Cause that’s how you prevent
the coup d’etat, actually.
(laughing) At that moment, well whatever.
So, I don’t know, it’s depressing in a way because they’re gonna pave this thing over and–
- Well there’s more debates.
Is there another one coming up in a week from now?
- Yeah, but it’ll be
interesting to see,
I’m sure that this got Bush’s
in the early polls on this
We’re 53 to 37, Kerry to Bush.
So everybody watching it, well not everybody.
Some people, 37% of the people thought that W. Cleen, Kerry’s clock, but–
- I disagree with that, but if
I were for Bush,
I would think that it wasn’t
all that bad.
I can certainly see someone from a Bush perspective saying, “Oh well, he held up okay. " And of course, he had just been in Florida, he was really tired, he really didn’t have enough sleep for the, I’m reading that all over the place .
- And he had too much to drink
(laughing) He had too much to drink.
- Oh Dave.
Now you have no proof of that, mister, you don’t know that.
- I know, it’s true, but I don ’t know, what the hell.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Do whatever we can.
- So something good that came
out of last night
is we fixed the X-10 phone
that sounds much better.
And it works a hell of a lot better.
- Yeah, I like it a lot.
Although today you’re a little more, sometimes you do a little more Robocopping, Digi thing, but that’s just probably network latency or whatever.
- You’re a bit choppy over what I’m saying.
- Yeah, so we’re probably both.
It is a bit choppy, but it’s better than, I like it a lot better than opening up iChat and covering up my webcam, I hate that.
That doesn’t seem very efficient.
Or it doesn’t look cool also.
What are you doing with that rag over your webcam? Today I’m podcasting.
- Well, no, I said your wife and daughters say that we–
- Hold on, there’s a guy that’s
got a book there.
So there’s only one more thing I need for my setup and then it’s complete.
I need to have a wireless transmitter so that I can walk around with a wireless mic and wireless headphones.
Then I’m completely set.
- Then I have everything I want .
- Yeah, when you get one of
those, get me one too.
Right now I need the same thing .
You know, the song for today might be, there’s this great song by Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks.
Do you know those guys?
- I was already going to my iTunes, but I doubt I have Dan Hicks.
- I have it.
- Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks.
And the song–
- Can you email it to me?
- The name of the song.
- Can you email it?
- Of course, I will.
- Yeah, we’ll get it out.
- Yeah, I will.
- All right, hold on, let me
just, oh, yeah, oh.
I was gonna go get it off my iP od, but then, oh, it’s on my hard drive.
- It should be on your hard drive, yeah.
- Oh, it is.
That would be cool, by the way, if iTunes had a command for email this song.
Oh, that’s right, record companies wouldn’t like that.
- I don’t think so.
I think, cool idea, Dave.
But then again, it’s really easy to make a plugin for iTunes.
You could make that, and someone could make that in two seconds if they were doing, I mean, iTunes and iPod hacking is cult now, as everyone is, that’s what I do like about it.
- Oh, I got this great book.
I got this great book, you gotta hear about this.
- What’s this?
- It’s called Hacking iPod and iTunes by Scott Knaster.
- Oh, cool.
- And it just came in the mail
and I’ve known Scott for ages.
Scott wrote the original programmers’ Bible for the Macintosh OS.
- Oh, really?
- Yeah, it was the one you kept
It had all the sort of little secrets that we were all sharing amongst each other.
And he also went on to General Magic.
He went truly general.
- General Magic, I remember
that, that was cool.
The Magic Cap OS or whatever it was.
- Yeah, yeah.
Well, they were pretty cool.
- I still have one of those
I have one of those with Magic Cap on it.
- Oh, you bought one, did you?
- No, no, they gave me one.
I think I was at the launch for some reason, or a launch, I can’t remember.
- Yeah, yeah.
They wouldn’t let me develop before it.
They said we already have enough developers, so.
- Yeah, you’re a threat.
And look where they are.
They really did did well, didn ’t they?
- It worked great for them, buddy.
- It sure did.
- But Scott was not one of
Scott is a genuinely great guy, and the book looks wonderful.
I really want, you know what I want? I want to set verbs in frontier that allow me to talk to iTunes.
- Do whatever I want.
No, I don’t care about iTunes.
I want the iPod.
I want to make my own iTunes.
I don’t like the way that works .
- Oh, okay, yeah.
Well, that’s gonna be real easy .
It’s gonna be real easy because it’s all, that’s the thing that Apple did is they left all of that open.
If you want to put songs on, take songs off, rearrange them, you can do that all with, of course it’s an Apple script API.
- Or Apple, I guess it is.
Yeah, yeah, you can.
And with the iTunes version, there’s a Comm-up.
Yeah, there’s a Comm-up.
Whatever the hell that is.
But there’s a Comm-up.
- Well, that’s just like Apple
There’s nothing more to it than that.
It’s the same damn idea.
- Are you mailing this song of the day yet? Or is it–
- Well, I have to take a second
Why don’t you tell them a story or something?
- I just did my source code for
three quarters of an hour.
I’m all soliloquy’d out.
- Why don’t you soliloquy your
into one of the, like just
repeat something from there.
Or I haven’t listened to it yet .
So do it again.
- Well, I’ll do a little promo for the source code then while you’re sifting through your hard drive.
- I played a, actually I played
a bit for you.
‘Cause it was, I got up at 2. 30 this morning to be on time for the debate and I went to bed around quarter to six or something like that.
And so in the meantime, as we were joking around with doing the show, I played you a bit of the history of MP3 that Bumper Morgan sent me.
And I had this whole thing.
This is a German invention.
Did you know that? This is a great story.
- I did.
- The guy who invented MP3,
and he’s in this bit.
It’s a German.
He talks like, I went to the patent office and they refused my patent for MP3 because they said it is impossible.
It cannot be done.
So check this out.
If the guy at the patent office had not refused the MP3 patent, we might not have MP3 today.
It’s a fantastic piece.
- You’re not a kid.
I wanna hear that.
- If it is impossible to do that, (speaking in German)
- That was good.
- That was good.
(speaking in German)
- You can’t make those jokes.
- I don’t think I have this
I don’t have this song.
- You’re kidding me.
- I have another one which is even better.
- Okay, don’t say the title.
Just send it over.
Just send it over.
Don’t say the title.
- Why can’t I? Okay, alright.
- Because it’ll be a surprise.
Well, because then we’ll have four more minutes to talk about is that thing is transferring from your house to my house.
- Oh, I have a much better
connection these days.
It won’t take four minutes.
I have a, I have, you know, I moved by the way.
Did you know that?
- Well, what, you’re no longer in the place you were in? Or you mean you’re–
- Well, no, but–
- You’re out of the hotel.
- I’m not in Boston anymore.
- I’m not in Boston anymore.
- You’re telling me this?
- Wait, well, Boston, I had
this shitty neck connection
This one rocks.
- Yeah, it’s pretty good.
- I mean, this won’t take–
- It’s pretty good.
- I mean, relative to what I had in Boston, which is a piece of shit, it’s sending it right now.
- So if Mount St. Helens erupts , Dave, will you witness any of that? Would it come with earth trem ors or–
- Well, yeah, probably.
And a lot of ash, that was the thing about Mount St. Helens when it blew last time.
- The ash, yeah.
- I wasn’t here for that, of
I was down in California.
Maybe I wasn’t even in California.
I don’t, here was it.
When you’re in Mount St. Helens .
- It was at the beginning of
I think it was 1980.
It was like 25 years ago.
But I can remember it, but I can’t really remember it.
Was it really that bad? I don’t recall.
You don’t know either.
- It was pretty bad if you were
If you were in Seattle, it was pretty bad.
If you were in Amsterdam, it wouldn’t have bothered you very much.
- No, that’s correct.
- Or you were in the US.
- No, I was in Amsterdam.
No, I was living in Holland in the beginning of the ’80s.
I was making my career elsewhere.
I was paying too much attention to myself.
I didn’t give a shit about some goddamn volcano.
Okay, comparing this with–
- I could hear it left your machine because your sound went crappy for a few minutes.
- No, it’s still leaving my machine.
- Oh, it’s still leaving it? Okay.
- I’ll tell you what, why don’t you pause the recording for just a minute so I can go get some coffee, all right?
- Boy, that’s really breaking the imaginary third wall.
- All right, so leave it on.
- Leave it on and leave your mic open so we can hear you get your coffee, meanwhile.
- Go ahead.
- Exactly, you got it.
- People can always skip ahead, you know? What the hell difference does it make if you’re bored of this? Okay, so what we did yesterday on the X-10 phone, you’ll recall we’ve tried this a couple times and then whenever– - In the coffee.
- And then whenever Dave would
or any type of emotion,
it would completely over mod
ulate and crap out
and it would screw up the
just sound like shit.
So we found that in the X-10 phone, which has the worst interface, bar none that I’m using at the moment, because they try to make it look like a phone, just give me an application.
But anyway, we’re figuring it out.
There’s a way to set an AGC, and of course I know that means automatic gain control, which means that it tries to keep–
- You’re trying to gain?
- Yeah, I’m explaining your
automatic gain control.
It tries to keep the level at one setting, so now we’re limiting all that over modulation Dave had, but also it kind of sucks up the room noise when he’s not talking, so we heard you getting your coffee, big Dave.
That worked very well.
- Did we? Then narrating it too? Did you hear the narrating?
- Yeah, I heard the narration.
- I especially like the part where I got the cream, that was good.
- Oh, I’m sorry, I was telling
much more important things
while you were creaning.
- I was doing a soliloquy, what do you want?
- Hey, I haven’t gotten this in
Dude, it’s gone, it’s left here machine?
- Yeah, yeah, it’s now completely gone, yeah.
- It’s going out through the
(laughing) I still don’t have it in.
- It’s somewhere around New foundland right now.
- In millions of bits,
traveling the globe.
So we’re leaving in about, what is it, in about an hour and a half, we’re leaving for England.
- Yeah, we’re going to do it in England.
- Well, Patricia and I are
measure stuff in the new house.
We’re gonna go there for a weekend.
- Yeah, as I told everyone–
- Have you already got the new house?
- Yeah, yeah, we already have
We, well, we don’t actually move in until third week of November, I think, it’s when we start, when we get the keys.
But tomorrow we’re gonna go in, we need to see where we’re gonna put our stuff.
And so I told the daily source code listeners there would be no podcast, except for the podcast we’re planning in the hotel room.
(laughing) Is that sort of like what John and Yoko did?
- I’m sorry, it’s a podcast, I
I messed up there.
- Oh, well, can I get the
warning next time
you’re gonna do that?
I can put the coffee cup down.
- I still haven’t gotten this
MP3 from you.
How big is it? Is it really big? Oh, it shouldn’t make any difference.
- No, it’s like two, two and a
It’s tiny, two and a half.
- It still has an address.
- So maybe I sent it to the wrong address.
- It doesn’t matter, I have everything linked together.
- Adam Curry, that’s your name, right? Adam Curry?
- Let me check, yeah.
- Is that you?
- Yeah, what email address?
- Yeah, what email address did you associate with me?
- Adam@curry. com?
- Yeah, when you fling me, it always seems to work.
- Fuck you.
- That’s interesting.
- Email is funny that way, isn ’t it?
(laughing) Hey, I’m CNN, they’re playing that same number, 53 to 37, which we kinda like.
That would be a good final number for the popular vote, don’t you think?
- 53, 47, what, for Curry?
- Yeah, yeah.
He then got a figure of 53% that said he won.
How can they do that? And I think more likely to vote for him then, I mean, doesn’t that mean, hey, I kinda thought the guy was pretty good?
- Well, you wanna spin this?
I mean, depends.
Which side you wanna choose?
- Well, I wanna believe that
Curry’s gonna win,
I really do, ‘cause I wanna
stay in this country.
I wanna actually, I’d like, yeah, I mean, I can’t imagine.
He’ll go to war with Korea, that’s what’s gonna happen with Bush.
- We do not wanna do that.
We do not wanna go to war with Korea.
That is a bad idea.
It really is.
It really, really is.
I don’t know what’s going on, man, but you’re–
- I like Korean.
- Do you like Korean food?
- Maybe I should just upload it somewhere so you could download it.
- That’s probably a better idea
That’s weird, though, because–
- Should’ve done that in the first place.
- That’s weird, ‘cause I put a swan that shouldn’t take that long.
- No, there’s no reason.
- All right, I’m gonna upload it while we’re doing it.
- Okay, okay.
- Hold on, let’s see, where the hell would this be?
- Something slash gems.
- Yeah, but that’s on the other
I have to figure out where it
I just did a drag and drop on the desktop here, but I can’t do that when I’m uploading to the web.
If the web sucks, right?
- Of course. - All right, hold on.
- Of course it sucks. - Don’t
- I wanna talk about something.
Can I talk about something? Can I set the agenda?
- I don’t know, all right, go ahead.
- Well, since it’s my toy that
we’re recording on.
- Thought about it, all right, go ahead.
- No, I wanted to talk about what I wanna know.
- Let me ask you a few
How do we, how do I, let’s say how do I, ‘cause I think that the Pied P iper approach works.
How do I get started with building something in the open source frontier for publishing podcasts? I mean, and I hope the answer is not going to be download the source and start looking at it.
- Well, sure, that’s what the
edge is gonna be.
I mean, that’s everything, everything relating to the open source release frontier involves downloading the source of frontier and tinkering with it.
Or there’s another possibility, actually, sorry, not everything, only those sorts of things.
Which could do is you could like very, you could like write up a blog post about what you want.
- Yeah. - Okay, and then post
somewhere and then post a
pointer to that list.
And then at least some of the people who are trying to learn how to do that would know that this is something that somebody wants, you know.
- Or something that you want, particularly.
- Well, it’s what I want, so
that’s why I wanna
start building it.
I think that makes the most sense.
- Well, what is it, tell me
what it is you want.
Let’s start right now.
- Okay, so what I’ve learned
and that’s just the act of
is that I’ve gotten to a point
in my life
where I come across these
these repetitive tasks, that I
find myself doing
over and over and over again.
It’s as simple as sending my calendar file to my assistant once a week or whatever.
And so I’ve scripted my machine to do all kinds of things automatically, and that’s kind of how iPod came about, although there was more philosophy behind it.
And so now, when we’re done with this show, which I have to record in AIFF for security reasons, meaning if the computer crashes , I’m more likely to have a file sitting there instead of MP3.
Also, just for workload, compressing while recording and running a million apps makes it skip sometimes.
So then I have to compress it to MP3.
I have to add the MP3 tags.
I have to upload it to a server .
I sometimes even have to make a choice between servers, whereas really what I want it to do is I want to make a bit torrent , so that would mean generating a bit torrent, uploading the file somewhere, and the torrent, adding that to the tracker, then publishing my RSS 2. 0 feed .
That’s just screening for automation, and I think it should be either , no, here’s how I want it.
- I’m not something that you–
- I’ll tell you, here’s how I
I want– - That’s not something
- Well, that isn’t something
Are you talking to me?
- I’m listening, yeah, I’m
listening to you.
Hello, I hear you.
- Yep, go ahead.
- Oh, oh, okay.
That isn’t something that you need, that isn’t something that you need to access the kernel for.
That’s scripting, most of what you’re talking about is just scripting.
- Oh, right, totally, totally, totally, totally.
- Nothing changed there.
- But my understanding was, if we put it into the kernel, it would run much faster.
- No, there are two things, it
that, I mean, there’s one there
that we don’t have, okay,
that would, that kind of would
to make it easy, which is
integration of a bit torrent
server with the frontier server
That, that would be, and that’s something we’ve already sort of been through on both of our respective little podcasts, little soliloquy things that we do, just the little ones.
The thing very big there.
(laughing) But it would be cool to basically have, (laughing) I know, it would be cool to have a bit torrent setup that was engineered for ease of use and key integration with the content management system.
- Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you can have a podcast, a podcasting system.
- I just got a,
- You’re uploading your file, right? That’s why the audio is a little delayed.
- Which is, of course, I mean,
Yeah, we’re uploading it now for the second time.
This was a really good idea.
- Yeah, it’s all right, I’m following along with you.
- I knew that this would be the
Good idea, like, yeah, well, anyway, where was I?
- On the bit torrents integration.
- Right, so let me just be
clear on one thing,
is that having it be open
source, access to the source
does, in some cases, make for
incredible performance gains.
Okay, but what it also does, sometimes it makes things possible that wouldn’t be possible otherwise.
Like, if you wanna take something like bit torrent and just bake it in, well, that would be something I don’t think we could have done before, but now we can.
- So you can have bit torrent verbs, basically.
- Yeah, that would be nice.
- Yeah, very cool.
- And then some automated,
automatic bit torrent
so that basically anything that
’s in a certain place
would automatically get all the
So all the user would have to do is just make sure that it showed up in that place .
And of course, there are a billion ways to do that, right? Upstreaming does that, uploading a gem does that.
Basically, there are lots of ways of getting things to certain places that are already, plenty of users know how to do them.
- Okay, so in my ideal–
- It’s on the bit up.
- Okay, semi-the-year-old.
So in my ideal setup, I just drop a file into a folder and then something, an interface pops up and says, “Hey, you gotta enter some information here. " I enter that information and then I just forget about it and all the rest I want to happen by itself.
That’s literally what I want.
- Oh, there you go, that’s
Okay, another thing that we want is we want the ID3 verbs to be integrated as well.
We want to have a basic native capability to set the ID3 information from a script.
And right now, all we have is the other way.
We can read the ID3 information .
So I guess it’s a little harder to do the encoding.
- Say that again the last bit?
- It’s probably because it’s a
to do the encoding or maybe we
didn’t need it
when we did it, but those verbs
Yeah, I mean–
- Well, in a week or so, I’m
gonna jump into the,
I’ve been lurking on the kernel
And I’m gonna jump in because–
- Me too, largely.
- Because I think that what I
like most about
the open source frontier, the
is that I could create
that would basically be one
You download it, you double click it, it runs.
And that’s what I really like.
I don’t like the idea of people maybe not having Python on the machine, which is not hard to get, but you know, Perl, you have to import all these modules and it’s just, you can’t ask any user to do that.
All they want is the promise of , oh.
- Well, those are, right.
Those are all places where they could make a mistake and they know it.
- That’s the, it’s not just that they could make a mistake, but they’ve been down this road before.
- Yeah, fuck it, they said.
I don’t wanna do that, right.
- Right, I know that won’t work , or there’s a 10% chance that that will work.
- Oh, already, since I said
that all this,
all this development and all
had messed up my machine,
and I reinstalled my system
there’s three other messages
now of people saying,
well, my machine’s been crappy
so I think it’s all this iPod
And it may very well be some of this iPod or stuff, but it’s just the thought, you know, hey, wait a minute, so that’s, you know, whatever is quirky is probably that.
- That’s probably death.
- So you wanna intro this song?
- But, oh, yeah.
It’s a great song to listen to when you just got dumped and you wanna know how she really feels.
(laughing) Or the other way around.
- Or when you did the dumping
and somehow you can’t get it
now you feel about her.
- All right, this is Dan Hicks.
- Who’s that, usually?
- What is it?
- Dan Hicks, he’s from the hot looks.
- Dan Hicks, yeah.
- Dan Hicks, actually it’s Dan Hicks and the hot looks.
And the title of the song?
How can I miss you when you won ’t go away? (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) . (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (wind blowing) (door opening) (wind blowing)
- Whoa, that’s what I call a
- Oh, all their songs are like
They have this sort of very che ery little surface thing going on, and in the meantime, they’re being about as cruel as they could possibly be.
- Ah, that was great, that was
I like songs like that.
- They have another song, they
have another song,
but it’s not like that.
I can smell the coffee brewing.
I’ll take mine black, you know, it’s good, it’s good to be back.
That’s a beautiful song.
I got a little Western thing going on too.
- I don’t know.
- A little Western thing,
- Shit-kicking music, boy.
- You know what happens when, you know what backmasking is, you heard of that? Backmasking, where you turn a record, you turn a vinyl record backwards and you hear hidden messages in the 80s, that was a big thing.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, I buried
I buried Paul.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What happens when you play a country song backwards?
- No, no, no, no, no.
You get your dog back, you get your house back, you get your wife back.
- Everybody, everybody.
- Yeah, I thought you’d like that.
- I thought you’d like that.
- Oh, God.
So what’s your weather like there?
- Today’s nice, actually.
Yeah, it’s all right.
Sun was shining a little bit.
- Let’s talk with a Western tw ang.
- Let’s talk–
- Pretty nice, Davey.
Pretty nice, boy.
We have some, we have some sunshine.
- How y’all do it? (laughing)
- How y’all do it there?
- You build, how?
- You build a–
- Well, we all have a here,
a hornier than a cow pissing on
a flat rock.
- Now, I wanna tell you
Davey caught George W. Bush saying in the debate last night that he called Uncle Osama and his gang of tourists, called them those folks.
- Those folks.
(laughing) Remember, three September 10th, those folks.
- Yeah, those folks.
John Stuart had a great line for that.
Now I forgot what folks were.
- We should have downloaded
I should have, I didn’t get the latest show yet.
- Fuck, we should get rid of, just skip trade secrets and just go ahead and download his thing.
- And just play that.
(laughing) Just play that.
Well, you know what, we need to get some guests on the show.
I’m gonna get John Stuart on trade secrets.
That I can make happen, I think .
- Sure, sure, I can get John Stuart on.
- And we need to get Prince.
- We need to get Prince on
Yeah, well, why not?
- I’m sure we sold at least
for John Stuart.
Why should, why, you know.
He’ll do it.
- Yeah, maybe we can sell three more.
- I gotta call, I gotta call JB
JB in New York, he’ll hook me up with John, no problem.
I’m gonna get him on the show.
- What do you wanna talk to him about?
- I’d be very nervous.
I’m not sure I could do that.
- Oh, come on.
- John Stuart.
- We just wanna have him on.
Just have him rag about the bush and just be funny and then we’ll plug his book, right?
- Is not the way to talk to his
And, well actually I was blown away by that article in NBC4 that you pointed to.
- Hey, isn’t that beautiful, huh?
- You know, put that, that was
He said, here’s the quote that I pulled from that.
Podcasting is a term that is probably unfamiliar to most people, like everyone.
- Like everybody in the world.
- Podcasting is a term that is probably unfamiliar to most people, but it represents a real potential change in the radio landscape.
- Fuckin’ it.
- Now, that–
- That’s a big statement from NBC.
- Yeah, no shit.
So maybe you’re expecting that call from the NAB, like maybe today or tomorrow, or, do they work on Saturday? (laughing)
- No, no, no, no.
You can bomb ’em, you can bomb ’em on the weekends.
That’s no problem.
(laughing) They’re closed, they’re closed for business.
- They don’t work on Saturday.
- But no, but I mean–
- Well, but you’ll get that
call on Monday morning for–
Never listen to your voicemail
when you come back
from a weekend away on Monday,
that’s a bad idea.
- It could be the NAB shutting you down.
Yeah, but listen, but listen
- They have all their lawyers.
All their lawyers are Italian, by the way.
I just thought I ought to mention that.
- Well, I know several of the N
But you know what? I think that, I think there’s, the problem is big organizations like this make knee-jerk reactions and they’ll freak out, whereas really, all the radio guys that are checking this out, and we’ve got everyone from Doc Searles, who’s definitely a radio guy, to Dr. Dave in Vegas, to Bumper Morgan in Connecticut.
These are real radio guys in heart and soul.
You go to their websites, they ’ve got air checks and jingles and they all see the opportunity.
They’re all saying, fuck, this is just another way for us to broadcast, because there really is no threat other than that, the Clear Channel, which owns most stations in America with four other big, big companies, is that the only thing they can be jealous of is that we’re not regulated, so that’s where they’re gonna start.
It’s like we can say, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, Al-Qaeda as much as you want.
- Yeah, fuck, fuck, fuck.
- Hold on a second, my money
transferred to Al-Qaeda
is slowing down my net
You can say whatever you want.
(laughing) You can say whatever the hell you want to say.
- Oh my God.
- So they’re gonna hate that.
- Oh lord, oh lord, oh lord.
- But I’m also seeing, I’ll
give you a great example
in a second, I’m also seeing,
you know, guys saying, well,
wait a minute,
this is just an extension of
and all the business models
will work, which I agree with.
But for instance, WGBH, the morning stories that I’ve been posting from a guy who works there.
- Yeah, those are great.
- Yeah, hold on, let me just see what his name is again.
- The last one with the candidate, that was really cool.
- The way you, the different reads on the commercials.
- Yeah, they could sound like we like him.
- Yeah, right, so Tony Khan, I
’ve been working with him
and he said, oh, this is so
cool, you know,
I’m gonna get GBH to set up an
RSS 2. 0 feed.
So he comes back at me and I haven’t finished up the email conversation with him yet.
And he says, no, we’ve got the feed.
And what they did is they, indeed, they created a feed of the transcript of the morning stories.
So not of the audio itself, there’s no enclosures.
And he said, well, you know, there’s still some political problems with that.
And I’m like, oh man, we’re so fucking close.
And I know he can’t help it.
- WNYC did something very
I took a quick look at their R SS feed.
You remember when NPR came on with all their RSS feeds? And I noticed that WNYC, which is the New York NPR station, had enclosures.
So I wrote a thing, now the scripting news is like, oh my God, we’re there.
I mean, they put the enclosures on.
- Yeah, enclosures to what? Real feeds or something?
- No, to a JPEG.
- Oh God.
- That’s what he said.
- He’s like, that’s exactly
what I was waiting for.
There he goes.
So that’s what was sitting there in my folder when I finished downloading.
Oh, and Adam, get this, get this, get this.
They weren’t even big JPEGs.
(laughing) They were like, these are like thumbnail footage.
- Wasn’t like no animated gift was popping up, right?
- They did a lot of bandwidth
there, I guess.
Glad we downloaded that in the middle of the night.
- But here’s where we’re gonna
get the NAB.
Here’s where we’re gonna get the NAB, Dave, because you have one of these applications.
There’s also one with the Radio Shark for Mac.
Because they love the fact that you can time shift their programming.
And because that just means more goombas for them.
So the same technology that allows you to time shift a radio show by subscription.
And there are a couple companies doing this right now that you either pay money for it, or you pay money for the service, or you pay money for the software.
You’re paying money somewhere.
But they are extending their brand into our realm.
And why would they fight that? I don’t think, I think they’re gonna be too greedy.
They’re gonna wanna have that.
And they’ll leave the door.
You can’t have one without the other, right?
- Yeah, of course what you’re
makes perfect sense, but that
that’s what they’re gonna do.
I mean, there were lots of different, I mean, when I first learned about the web, there were already a lot of people in the web, right? It wasn’t like, oh wow, this is Virgin Territory.
There were a lot of people doing it, right? And a lot of those people were reporters, print reporters.
And they got linking, and they had sort of, I remember thinking how strange this is, because I don’t understand what the hell they’re talking about, but they sure seem to believe in it.
(laughing) And really, that came through very clearly.
The first web project I did was the strike paper, San Francisco strike paper.
- Right, I remember that.
- Well, these reporters were
you have to preserve our links,
because that’s part of the deal
, you know?
And another good example, I
mean, of course, that’s great.
That’s an old medium, discovering a new medium and going and falling in love, right?
- And the New York Times was
another good example.
They decided that it wasn’t automatic that they would be number one in the new medium.
So what they did was they bet on the new medium, really heavy and really early, and it worked out great for them.
I mean, they are, in some sense , number one in the web.
And they were, in that same sense, number one in print beforehand.
But for every one of those, you’ve got big media companies that get completely trashed by the web.
And then you ask yourself, well, why didn’t they jump on it like those reporters in San Francisco and why the New York Times? Because they’re the little Dutch boy with the finger in the night thinking that, if well, we don’t even look at it, it’s like Apple with the web.
Apple got completely rolled over by the web.
And it was so stupid because the early web was more than 50% Macintosh.
- Well, Microsoft also got
rolled over by the web.
I remember their big turning of the ship trying to grab a hold.
- Tell me about it.
I wish I could tell you, I know even more about that today than I did a couple of weeks ago.
And it’s, only they did it differently.
They said, well, we know that we could get rolled over by this thing.
That was Bill Gates’s logic in 1995, is that if we don’t do something dramatic, we will get rolled over by it.
So we’d better prevent that at all costs.
So what they did was, instead of putting their finger in the deck like Apple did, was they built the Hoover Dam all around the world.
- And then logic.
- Yeah, that’s good.
And I mean, it was a sheer, like sort of, you know, when the full dimension of their invasion of the web was clear, and this was like 1996, I was at a conference in Phoenix where they kind of unveiled it.
It was at an Esther Dyson conference.
They unveiled how many different fronts they were attacking the web on.
And how they, it’s kind of like what we’re seeing right now with RSS and Yahoo.
You know, Yahoo comes in and, you know, they’re quiet for a little while while they’re getting their shit together.
And then all of a sudden one day, they announced that basically they’re the new owners of RSS.
And by the way, we’re all gonna have to sign, we’re all gonna have to sign le ases with them.
- Yeah, all your RSSs belong to
And unfortunately for Yahoo, you know, fuck that shit, right ?
- Yeah, really?
- I didn’t say that about
Microsoft and the web
when I saw it, in fact, I read
a piece called
“Stalin’ Go Home. "
You know, basically, we don’t
need your ass here.
Basically, you know, why don’t you just calm down a little bit ? It’s not really that serious, you know? And it didn’t work.
And they, you know, they did their hardcore thing and attacked and attacked and attacked.
And then they’re sort of like the kid who’s killed off all the other kids in the neighborhood.
And they go, “Well, can we play with them?”
- Yeah, we got all these toys and we want to play.
- Maybe you should have thought
before you killed them.
(all laughing) It’s like, maybe you should have given that a little thought before you did all this sl ashing and burning, you know? But so, you’ll probably see all kinds of reactions.
And of course, talk about panic .
You know, what happened with Napster? I mean, you know, basically, we wouldn’t be seeing the Renaissance and music on the net right now that you’re seeing, you know, if it hadn’t been for Napster.
And of course, lots of people were saying that to them at the time of Napster that you guys really ought to be, stop fighting this thing, ' cause instead, study it.
What is it that people lack about this? And then see how we can negotiate something where you don’t have to feel like you’re being raped for us to get what we want.
- And that’s Andrew Ortauski’s
point in his speeches,
where he’s saying, “Look, you
guys, package music.
“You’re just being lazy motherf uckers.
“Find out different ways to package music.
“You know, there’s lots and lots and lots. " What is it? “Green Day” now just released their album, their new album, and they store with it, or they sell you with it, I think eight or 10 blank CDs, but with each with a different Green Day logo on the CD.
So he’s like, “Go ahead, burn this, “and then you can either sell it or give it away “or do whatever, but at least it’s an official-looking “Green Day thing, and it’s not some crappy-looking–
- Look, that clever.
- Of course it’s clever, and
that’s where it has to go.
That’s personalized stuff, and people will buy that.
I mean, people like goodies, they like gadgets, but you’ve gotta do it smarter.
- That’s a renegotiation.
That’s a renegotiation right there.
- Well, that’s the problem,
is big companies like record
companies can’t do that.
They can’t go back and renegoti ate everything.
- Wrong, that’s incorrect.
The record company can.
- Not with their shareholders,
Not with their shareholders.
- With their very little pen ises and their soliloquies, they can’t get– (laughing)
- They can’t.
- I don’t think their
shareholders will let them do
It’s a whole– Ahmed Erdogan, who started Atlantic Records by selling him out of the trunk of his car, is not gonna fucking let it happen.
He refuses to understand.
I know that.
This is the most stubbornest man you’ve ever met.
- Really? (laughing) But if he sold his, he sold those discs out of the trunk of his car, then he’s got to understand an opportunity when he sees one.
- Yeah, but understanding this opportunity, Dave, is not the simplest thing, you know? Come on.
- I heard that guy interviewed
I thought, what was his name again?
- Ortauski, Andrew Ortauski?
- No, no, that’s Andrew Orl owski.
- Orlowski, not Ortauski. - Orl owski.
- Orlowski. - Right, but the guy, Atlantic Records guy–
- Ahmed. - Ahmed Erdogan.
- He’s Turkish?
- Yeah, I heard him interviewed
I thought he was great.
- He is great, he’s a legend.
He’s a legend.
But so far–
- But he loves music.
He loves music, though.
- Yeah, he also loves getting paid for music.
- Yeah, well, let’s get him on
I wanna talk with that guy.
- Hey, Adam, Adam, Dave, all
let me tell you the fucking MP3
, download his shit.
Hey, hey, hey, it’s Ahmed here, Ahmed Erdogan.
Hey, let me tell you, when I started fucking Atlantic Records, I saw this shit out of my back of my car.
- I know him, he would be great
He would be great.
He would be great.
I guarantee you, I promise you, when we’re talking about these people, we’re gonna get him on the show .
There’s enough people I know who have the roads to Ahmed, who could probably convince him .
Shit, I think you’re gonna–
- I love to get him on here.
- Never mind, let’s talk about,
he told this story about
Professor Longhair, okay,
that would bring tears to your
I mean, maybe it’s not true.
Maybe he didn’t discover Professor Longhair.
- He probably did.
- But it was a great story.
It was a really great story.
And Professor Longhair is one incredible performer.
I’ve seen Professor Longhair play.
And Adam, you’re no Professor Longhair.
- You know what, I’m not.
Ted Kennedy, however.
(laughing) Hey Dave, listen, I’ve got macaroni sitting on the table.
We gotta leave in an hour, and I still have to compress this fucker down to an MP3 and upload it.
But I have a long story, I have a long story I wanna tell you.
I wanna have a story I’ve gotta tell you.
It’s really long.
- But why don’t we tease our
that your long, long, long sol
will be available on the next
That way people will be anxious
and awaiting it.
And they can’t wait to hear it.
It’s called a cliffhanger.
- I want some of that macaroni, all right?
- Let me tell you, my in-laws
‘Cause they’re gonna stay here with Christina.
And then my father-in-law is now packing little buds of marijuana into a tea packet, packets for us to take England with us.
- Oh, what a great father-in- law.
- Isn’t he awesome? Isn’t he awesome?
- He does.
He really loves you.
- Yeah, I love him too,
This is what family’s all about , you know? (laughing)
- Aw, aw, ain’t that cute.
- Yeah, sure is, buddy.
Did he save a little bit for your daughter so she can get high while you ’re–
- No, she has no interest.
She has no interest in smoking whatsoever.
No interest in alcohol either.
- Me too.
Me too, I don’t do any of that shit, no way.
I used to, but I don’t anymore.
- Yeah, well, ‘cause it kills–
- All right, Adam, will you– Yeah, totally.
- All right, dude.
- It’s a killer.
I got some killer weed here.
Yeah, I have a great time.
- Wait a minute, you just
You said you got some killer weed there?
- No, no, no, no, killer weed, literally would you–
- Oh, literally, literally, okay.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Damn, I’m like.
I can reroute the flight from London to Seattle, no problem.
(laughing) All right, let’s get the fuck out of here, Dave.
I’ll talk to you soon, buddy, have a good weekend.
- Okay, bye everybody.
I’ll see you all later.
- Bye, bye.
♪ Throw ’em up, it’s trade secrets ♪ ♪ Throw ’em up, it’s trade secrets now ♪ ♪ The boomyest cruise gum beats for you, boy ♪ ♪ It’s trade secrets, trade secrets ♪ ♪ Trade secrets ♪ ♪ These heads will finally pe ep this ♪ ♪ Trade secrets ♪