I got the top story of the day.
Hi everybody, this is uh...
Trade Secrets! I'm Adam Curry,
coming to you from Belgium and
somewhere on another computer
is Dave Weiner.
Trade Secrets, man, here we are
. We're in Seattle talking like
we're...
Well, it ain't exactly like
Jamaica, but it's close. It's
close. It's like 60 degrees
Fahrenheit here, man.
Oh really? What is that
centigrade? Here it's like 14
centigrade, so that's in the 50
s.
It's cold and rainy and damp
and messy here.
Just like home. Just like home.
Just like it is here. Down home
in Seattle.
Where you're still residing.
How was your first week there,
Dave?
I don't know. It was kind of
Seattle-like. I changed the...
I just changed this morning the
time zone for something.
We're now back in the Pacific
time zone officially.
Oh, so wait a minute. So you
had... I want to point out to
our listeners that even though
we're both very capable, very
intelligent human beings,
with special skills, Dave's an
excellent developer. I can fly
helicopter, sophisticated
machinery.
Somehow it was very difficult
for the two of us to figure out
nine hours time difference.
We're going to do better next
time. You know that.
Yeah, that's for sure. He's
going to be much better.
So trade secrets. Here we are.
This is our second show.
Dave and I just spoke briefly.
I was on my way back from a
conference in the car.
You officially knighted me. You
said, "Oh, whatever. You're the
producer on all this stuff."
Which means it's my
responsibility if it all fucks
up, right?
Well, listen, absolutely. And
all the credit goes to you. I
was listening to your daily
source code thing on one of my
walks where...
By the way, I love the term "
podcasting."
Isn't that great? Isn't that
fantastic?
Yeah. Good term. I did a Google
on it and Ben Hammersley seems
to have the first use of it.
Ben Hammersley has appropriated
almost everything. I'm glad to
be able to return the favor to
him.
Hey, Ben, if you can hear this,
thanks a lot.
Don't worry. I looked at the
server logs and people are
listening, Dave. Definitely.
Are they really?
Yeah. I saw more than 600
downloads.
Yeah. Well, this one will be
even better, I think.
Sorry for today. Are you there?
Yeah, I'm listening.
When you say "oops," stop.
There's this magic six-minute
thing coming up any minute now.
No, no, no. I think we're going
to be okay. It should be all
right.
Yeah. You know, it would be
great if you took a picture of
this sort of all this spaghetti
wiring stuff.
I'd love to see what it looks
like.
Okay. I'll do that as we speak.
Anyway, the big news today is
Twinkies Maker files for
bankruptcy.
And this is something I didn't
know that they employ about 34,
000 people.
Holy crap.
And it says the maker of Hustis
Twinkies and Wonder Bread is
seeking bankruptcy court
protection from its creditors,
which is kind of weird, I think
. You know, I guess it's good.
No, what do you think?
Well, first of all, I'm shocked
. I'm shocked.
This is not just one, but two
American icons. Ladies, please,
don't squeeze squeeze in the
Wonder Bread.
Wow, that's outrageous. Does it
mention what the problem is? Is
this the Enron of snack foods?
Is that what we're at now?
It doesn't say. It doesn't say.
I'll tell you one thing. It's
probably not on the acting side
.
So, you know, Krispy Kreme is
kind of having the same problem
. They were riding really,
really high and it was sort of
like,
you'd have to wait for 15, 20
minutes to get your donut at
Krispy Kreme, but it was like a
party, you know.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden.
Is it Chapter 11 that they
filed? Or is that it?
Yeah.
Okay. Well, so then I guess
there's a--
So you could probably pick it
up.
Yeah, we could pick it up cheap
, you know.
For $10 billion, you get all
the Twinkies you can eat.
Cool. I would have liked that
when I was 12. I was really big
into Twinkies. I can't remember
the last time I had a Twinkies.
Well, you know, do you know
that there are no Twinkies of
all places in the Netherlands
that have never heard of a Tw
inkie?
Really?
And I predict that if they find
out about Twinkies in the
coffee shops of Amsterdam, then
we can pull that company out of
bankruptcy in no time.
Yeah. Well, and then doing a
search on this, they found out
there's like all these
different aftermarket products
with Twinkies.
Like, you know, there's deep
fried Twinkies, which looks
really good.
The trick there is you freeze
them before you deep fry them,
and that sort of helps the-- it
not get all like, you know,
crazy on the inside.
And then there are women who
dress up and go out on the town
, and they call themselves Twink
ies, and they sort of dress like
Twinkies, and it's nice.
They dress like Twinkies.
And they found, you know, not
such a bad thing, you know. It
looked pretty good. And one of
them-- one of them-- I'll post
this picture on www.scripps.com
in a little bit.
But one of them has a little
food stain on the front of her
dress.
Oh, no.
Now, maybe that's Twinkies.
Yeah, wow, there's a little
story going on there.
Anyway, all right, so which--
by the way, hearing an echo is
not really that cool.
Really?
Let me just check, see if I can
do something about that.
No, it's probably-- you know, I
'll just turn down my headphones
. It's probably just you coming
back through my headphones,
which I have.
I like to have them loud. That
's a DJ problem.
Yeah, it's a real DJ tick. You
turn it up as loud as you can.
And of course, we all go deaf,
you know.
Okay, that's cool. So it's
pretty amazing this works.
Yeah, although once in a while
when you really talk loudly,
when you modulate, then it cuts
out just a little bit.
So I'm wondering if maybe if
you just pull back your mic
gain or anything, you could
change there?
Not really. Well, I mean, it
can, but--
Yeah, okay, well--
Wait, there's a volume control
system.
A volume control?
Here, one, two, three, four,
five. Is it going down?
Yeah, this is good. Okay, leave
it like that.
So the way we're connecting as
we did with the first show, and
this is-- it's pretty cutting-
edge stuff.
What we're doing is I'm using i
Chat AV, and we've set up a call
with AOL's Instant Messenger.
Now, what's interesting is that
you can't just use the talk
feature.
In fact, it'll say that, you
know, that I don't support the
talk feature.
So we have to actually open up
the webcam.
I figured out a way so we have
a one-way video chat, so that
way I'm pushing out a little
bit of bandwidth,
and I have my camera covered. I
just took a picture, Dave, with
a dish rag.
So we're using as few bits as
possible on video connection,
just using the audio.
And, you know, I'm routing
everything around, and
everything seems to be okay.
I'll knock on wood because my
Mac has not been happy since I
've been doing all the--
I think when you do this audio
stuff, it messes up the hard
drive somehow, and sectors get
real.
Yeah, messed up. And now my
computer won't wake up from
sleep.
It'll wake up and-- it's
literally, you know, how your
Mac has a personality.
And so it wakes up and it goes,
"Oh, I don't think so." Click.
It turns off.
Yeah, my Windows machine has
personality, too.
Unfortunately, it's a really
shitty personality.
[laughter]
And I had the same exact thing
happen.
I tried to play The Sims 2,
which I got-- managed to get it
to boot up for like--
and run for like one minute or
two minutes.
Enough to know that I'm really
going to love it, but every
time I try to run that thing,
it just totally hangs up my
system.
Yeah, and I have to reboot
twice.
Rebooting once isn't enough, so
you have to like reboot,
and then sort of like watch the
machine suffer and then reboot
again,
and then you get your machine
back.
And every time something like
that happens, the machine gets
further and further away
from being anything that you
want to deal with.
And then what do you eventually
wind up doing?
I mean, I know what happens
with me is I usually wind up
getting so frustrated
and like, "Oh, time for a new
laptop," and it gets passed
down in line.
Exactly.
This machine was the result of
a Sony Vio getting into that
state,
which is now sitting in a
little container in my parents'
garage in New York City.
I can tell this one's going
there too.
Well, unfortunately, yeah, well
the same thing happened to my
server.
I tried to run some software up
on the new server I put
together,
and now I can't bring Frontier
to the front without it
crashing.
Oh, shoot.
So basically, yeah, it's one of
those situations.
So everything basically has to
do that.
So you're using WebEdit to make
changes.
WebEdit, that's right.
I'm doing all my stuff through
WebEdit, which is good
discipline.
It sort of keeps my
visualization ability active.
Unfortunately, I finally have a
NetConnection that is good
enough.
In Seattle here, I have a Cable
Modem NetConnection, which is
pretty good.
And it's good enough for me to
VPN or whatever they call it
into that machine.
But now I can't use it.
Oh, man.
That's just the way it goes.
Well, maybe once we get Front
ier open sourced,
we can start addressing some of
those kinds of issues
and get some good debugging
environment in there.
Regarding the Sims, on itcon
versations.com, there is--
I'm trying to think if maybe I
can find it--
there's a whole speech by--
what's the guy's name?
The creator of the Sims?
Will Wright.
Will Wright?
It could be Will Wright.
And I listened to it.
It's one of those hour-long
deals.
And it was really good.
I mean, because he talked about
all the challenges and how they
figured it all out.
It was just unbelievable.
Yeah, Will Wright.
Damn.
An hour and 40 minutes.
That's captivating stuff.
Yeah.
Well, he's got a lot to say.
I mean, you can see that they
spend a little bit more than an
hour and 44 minutes putting
that game together.
Yeah, it's also--
It's not really a game.
So, SimXXX has never been about
games.
They're sort of like worlds
where you play God.
And you can have a lot of fun.
I read a comment on my blog a
year ago.
And it was just after my uncle
died.
And I was obviously in a pretty
Sims mode at the time.
So, in his honor, I basically
called my Sims and I put them
in a room.
And I built a-- I took out all
the doors and windows.
And I let them die.
I didn't torture them.
I let them starve.
Oh, no.
If I could have-- if I could
have, I would have cut their
heads off slowly.
Oh, man.
And watch them-- yeah, it's
like what we want to do with
the Zarkali.
Man, is this some fucked up
shit or what?
Well, they know how to push our
buttons, that's for sure.
Yeah, but it's not working.
It's not working.
No one's going to give into
that except-- was it Poland?
I think not Poland.
One country said we're out
after they were threatened.
Yeah.
Well, I don't think it's the
threats that are going to get
us.
But I think that it's hard to
ignore.
I mean, it's amazing how, look
at this, the argument for being
in Iraq is that, you know,
we're there to bring democracy.
And Bush is putting down Kerry
because Kerry said, according
to Bush, that they would be
better off of Saddam Hussein.
And of course, Kerry said, "
Does it stay?"
And I mean, it's like-- this
whole way of arguing is like, I
'm going to put some words in
your
mouth and then I'm going to
just--
Oh, did we lose you day-to-day?
Hello?
Here.
Oh, yeah, you're back.
Hello.
Yeah.
Okay.
Some guy named Juan Cole, I
think was his name.
I've pointed to it today.
He wrote a piece that sort of
put what's going on in Iraq in
perspective for people in the
United States, which is that,
you know, if Iraq was doing to
us what we were doing to
them, they would have 1.6
million troops in the United
States.
And every--
You say they don't already have
that number ready.
Sleepy.
Well, I don't think they do.
I think the Iraqis basically
are pretty, you know, they're
pretty screwed.
They got screwed under Hussein
and they're getting screwed
pretty badly right now.
A lot of them are dying.
And if you took the proportions
, you know, 300 Iraqis are dying
every week.
And if you multiply that by 11,
which is the ratio of the
population of the U.S. to the
population of Iraq, that would
mean 3,300 Americans would be
dying every week, which is
just about the number of people
who died in 9/11.
But that would be happening
every week, weekend, weekend.
How long do you think we could
put up with that here?
Well, I feel pretty qualified
to talk about this, having been
in Iraq for 10 days.
And I met and spoke every
single day with different Iraq
is from a different part of the
Southwestern region.
And at the time, they were just
so happy to see, you know, to
see the troops because,
you know, I saw the rebuilding.
I saw the training of the Iraqi
police force, the ICBC, which
is the cooperative defense
force.
I saw work being done on water
facilities, A school, A library
, but okay, you know, it
was a start.
And I think that, you know,
exactly what you said is they
're just fucking tired of this
shit already.
You know, thanks.
You know, the Saddam Hussein
thing was great.
But now they're just flipping
out.
This has got to stop.
Every person that's killed, you
know, six degrees of separation
.
I mean, I know at least two
people personally who died in
the World Trade Center because
that's how vast it is.
You know, and you said if you
have 300 people a week dying,
then just keep multiplying that
by six and to the, you know,
whatever factor X it has to be.
And everyone, you know, is
affected by this.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, you know, they always
say, you know, Kerry doesn't
have a plan to get us out.
And I would, you know, let's
have a serious, first of all,
you know, how could, if Kerry
had a plan, it's like he's kind
of like in a situation.
Let's suppose he did have a
plan to get us out.
It would be irresponsible for
him to talk about it publicly.
Yeah, of course.
You know, he's not the
president.
And so basically it would be
the government if he did this.
Yeah, Bush gives him so much
shit for having voted in favor
of it, but, you know, he voted
to support the president.
So it's like you're complaining
because I supported you.
I mean, geez.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's all fucked up.
The United States isn't making
decisions in any kind of a
reasonable way.
And, you know, the concern is
that our army is being dec
imated right now.
And that, you know, give it,
give it a little bit longer.
Basically, we just simply won't
be the superpower we once were.
And whether that's good or bad
is another question.
We certainly won't be the super
financial power, that's for
sure.
No, we're spending our wealth
right now.
And the only thing we have left
, and this is the scary thing,
the only thing we have
left are the nukes.
And the world doesn't want a
world where the United States
only has one option, which
is to push the button.
Because, you know, especially
with a guy like Bush who really
has not, it seems like the
kind of guy who could do it,
you know?
Yeah.
So, let's have fun with this
radio show.
You can tell me, you're bumming
me out, Weiner.
Yeah.
I'm saying you're bumming me
out.
Anyway, so let's go.
You're bumming me out.
All right, all right, all right
.
Let's play your song.
Oh, I have good news.
I have good news.
We have a house in England.
Yeah.
Whoa.
How did that happen?
Yeah, well, Patricia went over
Monday morning with her sister,
and they've been house hunting.
And we'd already looked at some
stuff online.
So we, you know, we had picked
out some candidates.
And as she called me last night
, she said, "Well, I'm going to
look on the inside tomorrow
morning."
And this morning she called,
and we got a house.
So beginning of December, we
move.
What's it like?
What's the house like?
It's a 1930s English country
home.
It's got lots of property in
back.
Yeah.
You know what?
I'll be sure to take pictures.
I really don't know enough
about it.
Okay.
I just trust her.
We'll hear more about it.
I'll be sure to take pictures.
I said, "A, you have to get a
house that I can stand upright
in because especially
in the countryside in the UK,
it's really low for those
really short English people."
It's going to take you.
Oops.
Number two, it has to have an
airport within 15 minutes drive
because I am a pilot.
And number three, it has to
have broadband capability.
And otherwise, I don't care
about en suite bathrooms at all
.
Right on.
You can let that sort of happen
and you don't have to get too
involved in it.
It's beautiful.
It's absolutely beautiful.
I love that.
So what's you've been working
on, Big Dave?
Well, I'm working on BloggerCon
.
I mean, I'm working on Blogger
Con.
I'm sort of networking here in
Seattle.
It was funny.
I was having problems with
email.
So I wasn't hearing back.
I had sent like 15 emails into
Microsoft just to sort of set
up some meetings that might
go out over a period of weeks
because I've never been here
for weeks.
And it's just sort of an
interesting opportunity.
And it was funny.
I got no responses back.
Zero.
Absolutely zero.
Oh, that must be an email
problem.
Well, that's part of it.
You sort of have this, maybe I
didn't take a bath or maybe it
was something I said.
You know what I mean?
It's like, he's watching.
Go read real scripting news.
Fuck, what did I say?
Yeah, what did I say?
I mean, anything unusually.
You were talking about Scoble's
boss.
That's what it was, man.
That's from last time.
It probably was.
Yeah, Scoble's boss.
Anyway, and so, you know, but
it turns out there's some, I
have to do something with
my email because, you know,
finally one of the guys called
me and said, "How can we
not respond to any of our
emails?"
And I go, "Well, well, that's a
relief."
And they can hear that, you
know, I have a future.
And Microsoft determines that
whether you have a future or
not?
No, of course not.
I'm just being a little facet
ious.
But, you know, it's a weird
situation where on the whole
they're sort of like the
monster
company in the technology
industry, but as individuals,
they can be very, you know,
very
cool people to hang out with.
I mean, it's been through a lot
, you know.
So, anyway, so that's cool.
And Bargher Khan's coming
together.
Today we released the first
session description.
This one was for Rosenberg who
's going to do, what is, let's
see, I have to go back and
look.
You know, he came up with a
really cool way of phrasing it.
Let's see.
That's the, you know, border
crossing.
Yeah, border crossing.
Oh, border crossing.
That's good.
Border crossings.
That's off with a premise that
I don't totally want to ask.
I do want to ask.
Oops.
Hello, Dave.
Yeah, I was waiting for that to
happen.
Okay, let's see if we can get
Dave back on the horn.
And yeah, yeah, we're here.
Yeah, we're back.
Yeah, we have a little outage
there.
So, I love that thing that you
had on, you know, daily source
code about TV.
Watch me over here.
Oh, isn't it great?
Oh my God.
But you got to listen to that
audio book because it is so
good.
I am going to.
It's filled with performances
and some of them are so fucking
my, I mean, sorry for using
these words, but so mind
blowing.
Yeah.
They're like, God damn, this is
good.
Yeah.
Well, you would like Confeder
acy of Dunstice too because it's
got a lot of that.
It's Artie Johnson who was from
Martin's left.
It's probably your time.
That was like 1968.
But, and he's got to be like in
his 80s now, but it's.
Hey, Dave.
Yeah.
Hold on one second.
Let me just check something.
Hold on one second.
But we're back, ladies and
gentlemen.
Yes.
Okay.
We've wasted three.
I feel crappy.
No, you sound wonderful.
Here I sound crappy.
Somebody was telling me.
No, no, no, you don't sound
crappy.
You sound wonderful.
No, really.
Okay.
Now let's get back on track
here, Dave.
What are we talking about?
I think we were talking about
the swift boat veterans for
truth and whether or not George
Bush actually has to go to the
National Guard.
No, please.
Please.
Let's talk about that forever.
No, please.
No, let's not.
Let's not.
Well, we were talking about
Scott Rosenberg's description
of his session, which was.
For BlagerCon.
For BlagerCon called Border
Crossings.
And of course I mentioned that
really to sort of drop a hint
to you that it's, we really
need to go in on the
description for your session at
BlagerCon.
And what I was thinking is it,
is it not appropriate to do
that on trade secrets?
Well, it's totally appropriate
to do it wherever you want.
Whatever form you want to do it
in, but it's got to end up
being a blog post on www.blager
con.org.
Yeah, I understand.
You know, yeah.
I mean, I think, yeah, go ahead
.
No, what you're saying is would
you please hurry up and write
the description of the
discussion
you're leading?
Or, I mean, you know, what
happened with Scott wrote a
description and I said, well,
that
completely lacks any passion or
blood.
And if I saw that description,
I would never go to that
session.
Why don't you tell me what you
think first?
Right.
And he said, really, you want
to know what I think?
And I said, yeah, because then
people will get some idea about
, you know, they'll start
thinking if they don't agree
with you, believe me, you're
going to hear it from them,
right?
And so when you try to, so, you
know, so that's where you start
.
I mean, what do you think?
I mean, this whole idea of the
blogosphere, I guess it's the
blogosphere extending into
the audience of the world.
I think it's two separate
things.
I think it's almost unrelated,
although it's totally not.
Well, since this is called a
blogger con, we kind of have to
relate it.
No, no, no.
I understand what you're saying
.
But my perspective, as a user,
I'm coming from a different
place than from blogging for
this.
I mean, that's got to be clear.
But we're using all the same
technology.
And we're just beginning to
figure out how the two work
together.
I think that's --
Well, why do you say you're
coming from a different place?
Why do you say you're coming
from a different place?
I mean, because right now I'm
viewing iPodder and enclosures
and the way we're getting all
this out there
and distributed purely as that,
as an antenna.
And I'm sitting here, and I
could be doing a radio show.
I could be doing a top 30
countdown show.
I like doing this because this
is just --
We can do whatever the hell we
want.
No program director is going to
get mad at us if we sound like
total baboons.
But isn't that -- okay, in all
seriousness, though, doesn't
that have a lot to do with blog
ging?
I mean, for me, the quality of
blogging --
When I started blogging, I
immediately went and took a job
at Wired because they liked my
writing.
And they said, "Let's hire this
guy."
And I said, "Sure."
I thought it was like, "Okay,
that's a move up."
And then I learned pretty
quickly, although the people
there were excellent,
that it wasn't really a move up
.
It was a move in a different
direction.
So it seems to me that this has
a lot to do with blogging in
that --
Like you said, there's no --
the whole freedom thing where
there's nobody to tell you what
you can and can't say.
You're not trying to achieve
some other results than just
sort of like filling time with
your ideas.
That's what a blog is.
Yes, so then I agree with you
100%.
And I guess it doesn't matter
if you're using the same
protocols and systems to
distribute text or audio.
That doesn't make a difference.
Don't focus on the technology.
Adam, don't focus on the
technology.
Because while you have to solve
the technological problems to
get anything to happen,
ultimately it's what the result
is with the person who is
influenced by what you're
saying.
Right. Well, it's freedom of
speech.
Of course.
I just want to talk some shit
and I want to get something
done.
And of course, it's exactly
like blogging.
And the difference -- here's
the difference.
When you went to work for Wired
, your profession probably wasn
't a writer.
A writer of English prose.
You were a writer of code.
No, absolutely.
Right. No, it's a new thing.
Okay, so here's the difference.
I am a broadcaster.
I am an audio guy.
So this to me is like all of a
sudden, the cookie jar has been
opened and I have free access.
And so I think I have a very
different experience.
And I can tell.
I can hear people trying to
figure out a format, how they
want to do this, what is a blog
post, how long should it be?
Do I need to attach URLs?
No, I'm coming from a very
different van.
I'm like, whoa, you know,
finally got my own transmitter,
everybody. Hello.
Yeah, no, it's great to hear
you do that.
You're sort of evangelist and
sort of guiding light.
I don't want to like float your
ego or anything.
Keep going, baby.
Come on, man.
I think you can kind of see
where this is going, right?
Well, it's working, Dave.
Where it's going is --
Yeah, no, it's what -- I get
that.
Yeah, it's fucking --
But for a guy like me, I'm not
exactly sure where we're going.
I mean, you said something
yesterday in Daily Tests, which
made an impression, which is
that basically, you know, you
don't have to do the whole
thing.
You can just do part of it.
You can be, you know, have a
five-second sound bite.
And if it's an interesting
enough five-second sound bite,
then it, you know, becomes a
whole thing, you know, part of
the whole thing.
Right. And whereas I don't
think it's --
That guy, what was his name?
What was his name?
Pete Produre --
Right.
He actually did --
Oh, hold on a second.
You got to hear this.
It's going to trip you out.
Hold on.
He did one for me.
Where do I have Pete here?
He's been around.
That guy has been posting on
various mail lists for quite
some time.
He's --
Maybe he's very familiar.
I like him.
Okay, now I'm going to do
something really tricky here.
I'm going to switch your input
so you can hear what he did as
well.
So don't talk.
Please.
I won't talk.
Okay, you may get a little bit
of echo or whatever, but we'll
see how it works.
Hold on.
Here we go.
This is Rest Web Audio for
September 22, 2004, slightly
after a minute.
On top, it could be the weather
in Montclair, New Jersey.
The current conditions for Mont
clair, New Jersey.
[Laughter]
Oh, my God.
How cool is that?
That is on a scale of 1 to 10.
I'm telling you, I'm telling
you.
You must have heard that a
million times.
Oh, my God.
Basically, I was successful in
setting up a software sound
loop there.
Yeah, well, many, many loops
going on.
And while, of course, you told
me to be quiet while all that
was happening.
Not only was I defying with
laughter, but my phone rang,
too.
Oh, no.
So, talk about the real world
in our seating.
Great.
And I can't wait until we get
the hardware thing all settled
so that it's just a matter
so that we can do time shift.
It should be really easy for me
just to -- it should be like
creating an email message.
Exactly.
To create an audio blog post.
It shouldn't be anything more
than that.
And we're very close.
We're so close to getting that
done.
And already everyone -- so now
on iPodder, basically, there's
one client that is emerging.
And there's a GUI for -- and it
's like three or four teams have
now come together and they've
put all their code into one
source forge project.
And they even have BitTorrent
working.
I mean, it's going so fast.
Yeah, I saw that.
It's unbelievable how fast it's
going.
So, I think --
Go ahead.
No, it's also starting to get
congested, too.
You have so many people on my
list that you've had some stop
energy has showed up there.
Sure.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
And I encourage you to just
sort of kick back.
That's what I'm going to do.
I mean, it's tempting for me to
come in and say, "Okay, well,
here's how you simplify the
thought process here so that
you don't get all stuck on
these questions."
But it never works.
That never, ever, ever works.
No, and --
Because --
Yeah.
Because you have people there
who want to get stuck.
Yeah.
Otherwise, if they do want to
get stuck, they could get unst
uck so easily.
I mean, sure, you want to put
multiple enclosures on a RSS
item.
Well, the spec doesn't really
say you can't do that, actually
.
No.
It doesn't say that there's
only one -- and that's been a
flaw in the spec.
It would be nice if the spec
said you could have many, or if
the spec said you could only
have one, that would sort of
end the discussion.
But you know that you can have
one, right?
Right.
The spec allows for one, so why
not just keep it simple and
just have one, you know?
Right.
So some people need to make a
philosophical battle where
there's none.
I mean, can you create another
item that has no description
and no title?
Well, and here's the thing.
The entire conversation was
based upon the question of, you
know, now that people are also
using iPodder for BitTorrents,
you should be able to have
multiple enclosures.
So you have the regular audio
file and then you have the BitT
orrent file.
Whereas I said, well, you know,
it's probably much simpler for
now.
Let's bookmark this here just
to publish two different feeds.
You know, it's a lot less
confusing for, you know, trying
to figure out what the feed is
doing and all the issues of, as
you just said, you know?
Well, aside from that, isn't
the whole point of having BitT
orrents that you don't want to
expose the original?
Yeah, well, this is, of course
it is. Of course. Of course.
So, stick to your guns.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, when people start
being theoretical about things,
say, "Whoa, it would be nice to
have this,"
there was this great piece that
Frank Lakey wrote yesterday
that I pointed to about a
similar discussion that's
happening on the photo RSS mail
list.
That's not the name of the list
, but that's the problem that
they're trying to deal with.
And, you know, he's been
through this loop apparently to
its complete utter resolution,
which is no resolution at all.
And, you know, it says that
there's a face-off between
people who want to discuss eleg
ance and keep putting that
solution off as far as they can
,
and the people who just want to
do some programming work today
and get something out there
working.
Okay, those people shouldn't be
on the same mailing list.
Exactly.
This really sucks. I mean, I
had a call from, there's
something going on with stalk
ers.
Stalkers?
Stalkers. Total gear shift
change here. I've met three
different women here in Seattle
, all of whom won't use their
last names on their mailboxes
and their e-mail addresses.
Oh, because they're afraid of
them being stalked?
They are being stalked.
Whoa, you're kidding.
Yeah, and no, I'm not kidding.
This is actually, you know, it
is more to it than just they're
being stalked, because that
also affects the blogosphere.
I mean, you know, people will
not have blogs, or if they have
blogs, there are certain things
they can't talk about or else
they'll be found, and they're
hiding, you know?
And they're not guilty of
anything.
That's, but is this particular
to Seattle, or is it?
I don't know, but I've only
seen, I don't know, but I've
only, it's only just tripped
over.
I mean, I don't want to, like,
give too much away here, but
somebody had their last name
appear somewhere, and she was
very upset about it.
And that was what one of my
calls was about in between, and
, you know, so, there's been a
lot of, I mean, we've been
having glitches, people at home
should know.
We've been having glitches here
, so.
Yeah.
What was the last glitch about,
you know?
I have no idea.
I was smart enough to record an
AIFF, which basically it writes
it to the file, and, you know,
a nuke can go off, and whatever
is there is there, and you can
still play it.
I think the earlier glitch
might have, there's two things
that I found.
One is I accidentally had
kicked the adapter to the
laptop out of the wall socket,
so it was probably running on a
lower processor speed trying to
conserve battery power.
That's probably a big one.
Oh, that old problem, that
happened to me all the time.
Windows has this basic problem,
same problem.
Here's a problem you don't have
.
I checked Christina's computer,
and she was running LimeWire.
Oh, my God.
So that's where the bandwidth
is going.
Yep.
She's got her own little ISP
here.
Yeah, M&M down loads across the
world, worldwide.
It's Good Charlotte, man.
That's what it's about.
Good Charlotte.
Oh, sorry, Good Charlotte.
But they'll do I know about it.
If you live with me, you know a
hell of a lot about it.
I guess, yeah.
We could be thankful for little
things, I guess.
Anyway, so what else is okay?
Well, we were talking about how
not to get all wrapped up in
development.
In development conversation
about stuff that she just maybe
shouldn't be.
Well, you don't have to get
engaged in all the crap that
goes on.
No.
There will be probably more as
you go forward.
There'll be more, which is, you
know, but it's been remarkably
successful.
Your, you know, your evangelism
has been very effective.
And God, there's so much
content.
I can't keep up with it.
And what's crazy is, you know,
I went the last yard and then
actually, I think I looked at
that.
You know, your virtual
bandwidth piece.
And the only mistake I made,
because we've been doing, we've
been, I've been at this for
what, four or five years.
Yeah.
And the only mistake I made is
I was concentrating on video
and the machines aren't ready
for it.
We don't have the horsepower.
We don't have the bandwidth.
We don't have the disk space.
You know, just it's too early
for anything of any scale.
And just, and even now with
audio, we're just on the edge
of being able to do this stuff.
It also reaffirmation of the P
ied Piper theory of evangelism
is that you can't get anywhere
by asking other people to do it
.
You have to do it yourself.
Yeah.
And then they'll, you know, as,
and then they'll do what you do
.
And if it's any good, I mean,
if it's fun.
Yeah.
If I had known that, if I, if I
had known, I would have done
that so long ago.
Well, you know, you live in,
you know, fine.
Of course.
Yeah.
But you're, but it's happening
now.
So that's good.
I mean, there were all these
times like I did it with Chris
Leiden, right?
Last year and, you know, it was
closed, but no cigar.
It did not generate a lot of
other people doing it.
What went wrong there?
Because the setup was good.
You had a professional radio
guy.
Nothing went wrong.
The stuff was great.
I mean, you know, it's hard to
say that that was a failure
because it wasn't.
There was a lot, it's to this
day, I think those are seminal,
you know, sort of snapshots
in time of the development of
the blogging world.
Where did it break down?
Why did he stop?
Because I'm still subscribed to
his feed in the hope that one
day, actually during the,
the DNC, two interviews came in
to.
Yeah, but they really, I only
heard the William Buckley one.
Yes, I'm sorry.
It was William Buckley.
Yeah, you're right.
It was only one.
Yeah, you're right.
It was a crappy interview.
It was a horrible interview.
He was feeling drunk.
Do you know, do you know that
my cousin, my first cousin is
married to Christopher Buckley?
No, I didn't know that, but I
thought William Buckley was
great.
He was awesome.
He was drunk.
I thought, yeah, Chris Leiden
was Adam's, what were you doing
?
It sounded like Chris Leiden
had a pet theory and he wanted
William Buckley to sort of go
off on, you know, but yet I don
't remember.
What was it?
I did some sort of aristocracy
of the Republican party and the
big turns running the world.
And you know, that kind of
thing.
Oh, yeah, who gives a shit?
I mean, I don't know what
happened.
I mean, I think that Chris
would be the guy to talk to,
but maybe we should get Chris
on
here one time and ask him.
I mean, you know, it's the
thing somebody was, somebody
once said about Chris, I don't
want
to go like too deep into this,
but he's good at it.
He never helps people on their
way up.
And so the people that he
brought in to the conversation
were his regulars from his hard
days.
And, you know, once you've run
through all the regulars, then
well, where do you go?
And there was plenty.
There was also all the people
he brought in from the Fisher.
I mean, he interviewed Glenn
Reynolds at Pone.
Any of you?
Yeah.
And I really know.
I mean, the thing was, is that
it wasn't like a community,
like what you're doing is
different
because you have made it about
technology.
And, you know, because, and
that's realistic because the
barriers right now are
technological,
right?
But the opportunity is not
technological.
That's where it gets tricky.
And then first we have to crack
the nut technologically and
then pass it off because, you
know, it's
going to, I mean, ideally I
want a device that is perfect
at every aspect of what we're
doing right now.
It needs to have a microphone,
it needs to be very portable so
that I don't have to
plan in advance, but it's very
likely to be with me wherever I
am when I want to say something
,
you know, in this mode, in this
environment.
And it has to know it's going
to be very well and it has to
do what we're trying to do
right
now with, I mean, we're hitting
glitches again, right?
I mean, this is this process of
wiring together, of mixing
together two microphones that
are
on two different continents,
right?
Yeah.
That means we need to convene
some really serious engineers
that know a technology that
neither you or I know.
I mean, we're not, I'm not a
voice over IP guy would have to
be here, you know.
Yeah.
But he really understands that.
Yeah, I think really the big
problem is we're just running
into performance issues.
Well, here's another one for
you, okay?
Why can't you buy a mixer for
your PC or for your Mac?
Well, you know, a regular audio
mixer that has an action.
No, I mean, Dave, Dave, the
easy, there's a couple of easy
answers.
The mixer is, yeah, that's part
of the answer, but it's really
the fact that I'm recording
to the same machine I'm doing
all this stuff on.
And that's just because it's
the blogger way.
I could go out and I could
easily spend $20,000 on
equipment and have it working
perfectly.
But, you know, then I think we
're missing out on a tremendous
opportunity because I've
already got the product manager
of Audio Hijack Pro email, I
mean, saying, hey, shit, you
know, just tell us what do you
need?
What do you need for us to
change?
No, you're right not to give
into that temptation.
I mean, you know, then you have
a compost, absolutely nothing
if all that can happen here
is you get to have a radio show
and invite only your friends to
produce.
That's not much of a medium,
right?
Yeah, unless you have a show.
Yeah, unless everybody has $20,
000, you can't do it.
You know, that doesn't make any
sense.
And there's no need for it to
cost $20,000.
That's ridiculous.
I mean, basically an iPod,
merge an iPod in the mixer,
right?
And I think you're a long way
towards it.
You know, in other words,
instead of one microphone jack,
give me, you know, 10
microphone jacks,
10 mini plugs, and each one of
them has a switch which can be
software if they want,
that allows it to control the
expected impedance, you know,
so that I can plug in different
kinds of audio sources.
And then, I mean, why can't my
laptop have five audio input
and five...
Of course it can.
Right.
Yeah, just no one's asked for
it properly, I guess.
Well, you know, this has been a
perennial problem when we
wanted to work with Kobalt,
which had a really great...
I mean, it was their server,
the Kobalt Cube.
Sure, yeah.
That was part of spiritual, you
know, we were on the same wave,
right?
But the problem with most
technology companies, and this
is what we have to watch for,
find one that isn't like this,
then let's work with them,
is that most technology
companies have a very low
opinion of users.
And so, you know, when we
contacted them, they had to put
us in a box.
Either we were competitors or
we were users.
In either case, they didn't
want to work with us, you know.
If we're users, well, you know,
if you check out our latest
product and we're working on
this and that,
you know, you'll love it when
you see it, but frankly, we don
't care what you want, right?
And if you're competitors, I
would give you more to stand
for you.
But we were neither.
We were developers, like very
much like the iPod stuff that
you're doing right now, iPod or
stuff.
And if somebody wants to, I
mean, I offered to work with
Sun on this basis,
but what we need is we need to
have somebody who joins our
community,
who doesn't throw their weight
around, who does a lot of
listening,
and then puzzles it out with us
when at the time when, you know
, it says,
"Okay, I think we understand
what the needs are now, and we
'll just actually do it for you
."
And it's funny, I had an
interesting conversation with
Dave Luberts.
Basically, we seem to be
getting a development
organization together about
Frontier.
And I hope that we're going to
at least try to solve some of
these problems
from a commercial development
standpoint,
because we've actually got a
few commercial developers
floating around.
And I was explaining to Dave
what's needed here,
and Dave worked on the Word
team at Microsoft going back to
, I think, like Word 1 in the '
80s,
and stayed through like Word 5.
And you know, while Word gets a
lot of people, you know, sort
of snickering when you say Word
,
well, you know, it actually was
productized a lot of times,
and there was a lot of good
work that went into it.
And, you know, it's now the
dominant word processor.
You don't get to be the
dominant word processor by
being slouches.
They were good.
And so when we talked about
this, there was a lot of nod
ding and a lot of understanding,
and just having somebody to
work with to brainstorm at that
level is good.
And, you know, and so the idea,
which you keep harping on,
you're absolutely right to do
so is that the installation
experience has to be smooth.
It has to feel like you're
installing a real piece of
software.
And of course, after that, you
have to not even have to
install it.
It has to be a device that you
get that connects up to your
laptop in some meaningful way
that comes pre-configured
because you didn't have to
install your iPod at them.
No, no, exactly.
Oh, yeah, just out of the box.
Yep.
And so, you know, it's also
going to be like a cell phone.
I think cell phone has a lot of
the features that this device
needs.
Don't you think?
Well, I mean, you might as well
throw it in.
You know, now we're into spe
cking out a device which would,
you know, be the geekazoid tool
of all.
I like the idea of...
But wait a minute.
Let's time out.
If you put a hard drive on your
cell phone, okay?
Yeah.
Your cell phone.
And you called me, right?
Yeah.
Wouldn't we be doing...
Yeah, you could record the
conversation, absolutely.
We would be doing 90% of what
we're doing right now.
Yeah.
But, you know, I think the big
advantage of what we're doing
right now, and this, you know,
also makes this type of show
possible,
is this is not costing an arm
and a leg to set up the
conversation,
even though we're across nine
time zones.
So the cell phone would be very
expensive, is what you're
saying?
Yeah, because then you're going
to want to put Wi-Fi in there,
and, you know, if you want to
do voice over IP and otherwise.
Yeah, I think it's...
Of course it's a solution, but
I don't think any cell phone
manufacturer is going to say, "
Oh, yeah, let's slap one of
these together."
And, you know, while we work on
what everyone really wants.
I like the idea that you said
the iPod.
Just give me 10 ins and 10 outs
and a little mixing interface,
you know, switch or whatever.
I like that.
That's a very simple one.
Well, somebody could do that.
I mean, probably somebody who's
listening to this recording
right now would know how to do
that.
I mean, it doesn't have to be a
beautiful form factor to start
off with.
It doesn't even have to be tiny
to start off with.
It would be the size of a...it
should have a very, very ample
hard drive.
You know, a good 60 gigabyte
hard drive, so that you don't
run out of space very
frequently.
It should be a fractional
horsepower HTT server, so that
all you have to do is hook it
up to Ethernet.
Let's start right there.
Good idea, yeah, good idea.
Yeah, no, that's a biggie,
right?
Optional Wi-Fi.
Well...
Now, you want...
I don't know about things that
we could give on.
I mean, I don't mind if it has
an Ethernet jack on it.
That's optional Wi-Fi.
Okay.
I mean, yeah.
Okay, maybe only Wi-Fi.
That's probably better.
Yeah.
That's probably better.
I mean, these days...
And you also want it to have a
number of outs.
You know, you should be able to
...here you go.
This thing should be able to
record a number of sources
simultaneously,
or you should be able to...you
know, when you dock it to your
computer, then it becomes a
router of audio.
So therefore, you don't...you
know, then it's making sure
that you can send audio to one
application and record the
other.
You know, so then it's kind of
like this breakout box that I
have.
It becomes a...you know, it's
basically a hardware device
that adds that capability to
your computer.
So you can do a scaled-down
version while you're on the
road,
which could also include ho
oking up, you know, guitars and
microphones, etc.
Or, you know, just mics to just
sit down and have a
conversation.
Maybe you can mix in a tune
from your playlist there.
But yeah, I mean, totally.
And I think that's just a mod
pod.
A mod pod.
What mod?
What does mod mean?
It's modification.
Someone's going to modify it.
I think...
So is mixer the right idea?
I mean, it's that...
You have to be able to turn the
sources on or off.
Right.
And control the gain on each of
them, too, right?
Exactly.
And you have to be able to
choose the kind of device you
're going to plug in.
A microphone has a different
profile than a cassette player
has, than a CD player has.
Apple has all this technology.
I mean, they...
I sit here and I've mainly
worked with Final Cut Pro.
We did our reality TV show.
But I've been in enough audio
studios and the guys at Apple,
man,
they know what they're doing.
Every single time you think,
you know, "Oh, if only I could
do this, it's there."
And it may be too early for it
to work well yet, but they're
definitely smoking something.
But as you've pointed out so
many times, as you pointed out
so many times,
they aren't thinking about this
application.
The one we're doing right now
...
No, they're not.
You know, where was it I read
the thing you pointed to?
My MP3.
I thought that was beautiful.
What was that?
It was...you pointed to it.
There was this article.
Oh, I want my MP3.
Yeah, yeah.
I want my MP3, you know, like
Dr. Straits' song, right?
I mean, you know, I want my MP3
.
And he was saying, you know, "
Flash, you can do voice with MP3
."
Now, to us, that no longer
seems like a big revelation,
right?
Right.
But to everyone else...
Yeah, to Rio, to Microsoft, to
Apple, they're all thinking
that's great.
Yeah, they're not thinking...
the music business.
Now, and you've also wavered a
little bit on whether or not
you have to assist on MP3.
I want you to really...I mean,
we have to have MP3 because...
No, no, no, no, I recently...I
thought I made it very clear.
It's like, I'm sticking with MP
3.
Let me just say, here's why,
okay?
Because MP3 imparts users.
We have choice.
With MP3, we can put it
wherever we want to.
With any other format, you know
, like the one whatever it is
they're using, we're audible.
com.
I'm getting a call, but I'm
going to let it ring.
Whatever we're using, I think
that's Apple's proprietary
format or whatever.
Now, we're using MP3.
We have no control over that.
So, there's no give on that one
.
Anybody comes to us and says, "
Well, you can have what you want
, but it's not MP3."
There's the door right over the
door.
I hear by solemnly swear.
Everybody raise your right hand
.
Put your hand on the iPod.
Put your left hand on the iPod.
And say, "We will protect MP3."
MP3, I want my MP3.
That's great, isn't it?
It is good.
We've got to get Knopfler to
sing that for us.
Oh, man. And you know he'd be
totally into it.
I don't know.
That was Sting's thing.
No, no, no. That was Sting.
What?
Sting. Sting's thing.
Oh, you're right.
Yeah.
He's a dick.
We don't want to ask him.
He doesn't want us to have our
MP3, right?
Let me tell you about Sting's
story.
I've got two Sting stories for
you.
I believe you totally, by the
way.
Yeah, so...
He's a dick.
The first one is he was into
all this rain forest shit and
people with big plates in their
lips.
Beautiful.
Beautiful world music Sting.
Love it.
And so my daughter, with her
fourth grade class, they did
this whole rain forest hoohow.
My daughter actually did a rain
forest project on a weblog.
And so they had all these
drawings and printouts and
stuff.
And I knew his management
really well.
And I said, "Well, I'll tell
you what.
I'm going to have this sent to
Sting and I'll ask him to write
you guys a note back."
And the manager said, "Yeah, no
problem.
We'll take care of that."
And he never did it.
He was talking stiff to some
fourth graders.
It was horrible.
Really?
And then I was visiting a house
in Malibu next door to his.
And we kept throwing our ball
in his yard.
You did?
Hey, Mr. Sting!
Mr. Sting, can we have a ball
back, please?
Yeah, what did he say?
He was grumpy.
He has no humor.
What's his real name, by the
way?
Gordon Sumner.
Really?
I don't know.
Why does he call himself Sting?
Because, and by the way, he was
a teacher for Christ's sakes.
Because he used to wear the
yellow and black T-shirt.
Remember when he was in the
police?
Remember that?
Yeah, I love the police, by the
way.
I should say I love Sting's
music, too.
But if he's a dick, he's a dick
.
What are you going to do?
Yeah, hold on.
Let's see.
Maybe we can play something by
Sting.
By the way, they have a great
...
I've got to say this, Speaking
of Dickheads, right?
They have this wonderful,
wonderful ad for George Bush.
For what?
For George Bush.
I said I'm Speaking of Dick
heads.
Gotcha.
And it's John Kerry on a wind
sale, you know, flip-flop.
It is the funniest thing you've
ever seen.
So, you know, what I would love
to say to George W. Bush right
now is, thanks a lot.
I love a good laugh.
I'm still voting for Kerry and
fuck you.
I mean, it's like, you know, I
mean, and by the way, they're
doing this in a big favor
because when Kerry is president
, we're going to know how to
give him shit.
Oh, yeah.
Because they're teaching us how
to do it, right?
Oh, yeah.
And don't ever think that that
's going to be a love affair
because it's not.
But we'll be very happy to give
him shit.
For sure.
And I'll be able to say, George
Bush, you are the best fucking
ex-president I have ever
seen.
I'm going to play a song of the
day.
I just decided it's going to be
one by Sting.
Hold on a second.
I'm going to turn it on so that
you can hear it, but you need
to mute.
Can you mute your microphone or
something?
I can just pull it out.
Oh, that's going to sound
really professional.
No, I won't pull it out.
Hold on.
Okay.
I'm going to give you a return
line now.
So you're probably going to
hear a bit of an echo.
All right.
Here we go.
This is a remix, is a JPL remix
of Sting's Russians.
And Dave and I will be right
back.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Whatcha know as nobody wicked
is this a red and rap pages,
they refer to me as salt, yeah,
more like micro salt.
. He shared the same biology
regardless the ideology. One
might say, "Bus me and you."
As if the Russians love their
children of truth.
[Music]
Thank you.
Now there's a track I promise
you will never ever ever hear
on a commercial radio station.
Really?
No, because it's pretty
outrageous.
You like that?
I like it. It's funny. I know
the Sting song is great.
Yeah, you know the Will Smith
rap that was mixed in there?
Didn't tune in that was Will
Smith.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's a remix done by a
guy who goes by the name of JPL
.
And you can download that and
lots of other excellent mixes
at mixfreaks.org.
Cool.
Yeah, no, they have, and you
know there's a new trend called
mashups.
There's another thing that will
never make it to the public
commercial space because there
's too much rights hassle and
issues involved.
So a mashup is where you take
an old song and a new song and
you mix them together.
Oh yeah, yeah.
And you know you might hear
them, some radio stations may
do them live or you know,
but it's just so complicated.
You can't commercially exploit
that because you have to get
permission from everybody
and you have to agree on the
split and that all depends on
how many seconds you've changed
.
It's a wormhole.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
So I have another thing I want
to mention and maybe this can
be the last thing or I don't
know, how long has this been
going?
Let me see. We have been at it
for a little over an hour.
Really? Yeah.
Well, here's something that I
've been sort of thinking about
in the back of my head and I'm
wondering when or how we can do
something about this.
Netflix, which I don't think
you get in Europe.
No, no, we do not have Netflix.
And you've explained it to me
and I still don't really
understand what the big deal is
.
Let me try again. It's not a
big deal. I mean, it's nice and
it has its place.
I get movies from four
different sources. One is the
first run stuff in the movie
theater.
Another one is Turner Classic
Movies, which is great, except
I don't get it here, so I'm not
going to be watching Turner
Classic Movies.
The third is like HBO, the
normal cable stuff.
And the fourth is Netflix.
And they all do different kinds
of movies.
The first one movies, obviously
, those are current with current
stars and whatever.
And same thing, more or less,
with HBO.
And Turner Classic Movies goes
way back in time. It's mostly
the MGM vault.
So it goes back to the 1920s
and even some movies from the
teens.
And Silent Pictures, the best
part of Turner Classic Movies,
I think, is the '30s, where it
was kind of a renaissance of
movies.
And they have a lot of stuff
from the '30s.
And it's really, I think, you
know, it's been an eye-opener
to me.
I didn't used to like that kind
of movies, but now I do.
And Netflix sort of allows you
to get unstuck in time.
And you can get really any
movie that is available on DVD.
But you don't have to own it.
And I guess another source of
movies would be, you know, go
down to Blockbuster or
Hollywood or whatever, Barnes &
Noble or bookstores and stuff
like that.
And buy the DVD.
But I don't know. I don't do
that.
I bought a couple, but it seems
wasteful to own one of those.
So how does Netflix work then?
Okay, so what you do is you
give them $20 a month.
That happens. They deduct $20 a
month from your credit card
account.
Re-interest, it doesn't matter
how many movies you've watched.
It's a flat fee of $20.
And you get three movies out at
any one time.
It's like having a library card
.
And they send them to you. You
don't have to go anywhere. You
can just order them online.
It's all done via mail.
You order them online.
So there's netflix.com.
And you maintain a queue.
And that queue says, "Okay,
these are the movies that I
want to watch."
And pretty much, you rank them.
There's one, two, three, four,
five and so forth.
Right now I think I've got like
17 movies in my queue.
And you pretty much get the
number one, number two, number
three at any given time,
except if you want something
that's in high demand that they
don't have a lot of copies of,
then you'll wait for that to
show up.
Like for example, when the new
Manchurian candidate came out,
the old Manchurian candidate
went way up in demand.
Now that it's no longer a first
release, you could have it
whenever you want it.
They maybe even ordered a few
extra copies because of that or
whatever.
And for them, it seems to be a
remarkably profitable business.
And for me, it allows me to
sort of browse the world of
movies.
I get things they wouldn't have
in Blockbuster in a million
years, they wouldn't have them.
And it allows me to browse the
history of movies in a sort of
way that there was no other way
to do it before they came along
.
So they very recently supported
RSS.
As soon as I sort of got in the
loop with them as a user, I
started writing about it.
Wouldn't it be great if they
had RSS? Wouldn't it be great?
Wouldn't it be great?
I said it over and over again.
At HackingNet Netflix, this is
how you do evangelism. You just
become a broken record until
they finally give you what you
want.
That's how you become president
, Dave.
Yeah, that's true too.
Maybe my future has me as
president or whatever.
So, okay, so now they gave us
what we want, right?
So now we need to use it, right
?
And so what I want to do is
have a site that aggregates the
queue of all the scripted news
readers who have Netflix
accounts.
That would be ideal. I've got a
community and what I want to do
is I want to look at the aggreg
ator and see what you guys are
watching.
Yeah, and you want to be able
to cross-reference stuff and
you can extrapolate all kinds
of interesting things.
And we can all watch movies.
In other words, we can sort of
like, "Oh, well, 50 people have
watched this movie. Why don't I
watch it?"
And when I write something
about it, I'll bet they have
something to say about it,
right?
I mean, we can be like a book
club, except with movies, right
?
So if Audible did the same
thing, for example, I wouldn't
have to wait for you to talk
about what -- there you go.
I mean, that's something you'll
totally understand, right?
Because now that you've talked
about that Audible with the guy
around the TV set, right?
I forget what it's called, but
you know I'm going to buy that
one, right?
And maybe part of the reason I
'll buy it is because I think I
'll like it.
But another part of the reason
why I'm going to buy it, maybe
even the bigger part, is
because you've already
experienced it,
and it's going to give us
something to talk about.
The spoken word revolution.
Yeah, spoken word revolution.
Okay, I'm writing that down.
So they don't --
Well, that makes sense.
And so it's like an Oprah's
book club only for Netflix.
So let me just put the request
out, okay?
So if you have a Netflix
account, right -- I'm talking
to everybody who's within your
side of me, right?
If you have a Netflix account
and you don't mind sharing with
me the contents of your queue,
send me the URL of your queue,
okay?
I won't share it with anybody
other than in an aggregate view
.
I won't say, okay, this is what
so and so is subscribed to.
So what does Netflix provide?
Do they provide your queue in R
SS?
That's what they provide?
Yeah, yeah.
Not only do they provide your
queue in RSS, but they also
provide your history in RSS.
Okay.
So the question is, which would
be more interesting, the queue
or the history?
And I don't know.
So why don't you go ahead and
send me both?
And then, because the hard part
of the application is the user
interface.
So this means I can bootstrap
the thing without putting up
any user interface at all.
People just send me the URLs.
Then I can just program that
into the app and do the aggreg
ated.
I'll do a run every day
basically up on it, which won't
be great.
Yeah, and I think that we'll
see something from that.
I mean, I think Audible, I don
't know if I point to an Audible
link from my blog.
I don't know if other people
can see that.
I suspect that you can't.
That they don't have their URLs
down.
And this is something they
really ought to do.
They ought to make it easy for
a blogger to point to a book.
Why not?
But they seem to be very member
, right?
It's like, don't make it hard
for us to sell your product.
Exactly.
But Netflix, I know, does make
it easy and it works.
So even if you're not a Netflix
member, you can sort of get a
sense of what scripting
people or actually it will be
trade secrets people are, what
kind of movies are they
watching?
And I think that gets kind of
interesting.
And then you can sort of watch
the effect you're talking about
a movie or a book in one of
your
sticks and see how to do more
people watch it because you did
that.
Then you can go send them a
bill.
Yeah, you're looking at it.
Basically, I need you all to
send me just kidding.
Along that, I had an email
exchange with a nice guy from,
I'm afraid to touch any other
applications while I'm doing
this.
Please don't touch any other
applications.
Lulop.it.
I've pointed to them in the
past.
They provide paparazzi video
feeds.
Have you seen that?
No.
He's got RSS tricked out where
they encode copyright
information into the RSS.
I don't really fully understand
it yet, but they're helping me
out.
And they have a transaction
back end where if traditional
broadcast media want to take an
excerpt,
that's why there's all this pap
arazzi footage on it, then they
have right built in.
Okay, also you want 30 seconds.
Great, that's going to cost you
so much.
And then they take the video
footage and the transaction is
made and someone's paid someone
down the line.
Just interesting shit that's
popping out.
That's pretty funny.
Yeah, at Lulop.it.
Very commercial sounding name.
Lulop, what the hell is that?
I don't know.
Oh, you were being sarcastic
there.
Yeah, yeah.
I was like, "Hey, what's up, L
ulop? What's a Google?"
There you go.
I hate it.
I'm so gullible.
I go for, like, "Tell me the
sky's on fire and I'll go wheel
ie."
All right, so what's up for the
rest of the week for you?
Lots of meetings.
I've got lots of meetings.
I've got to somehow get a
conference set up and ready to
go.
You know, you start with things
.
The conference is six weeks
away.
Why is he, you know, what, it
takes so much time to do these
things.
Yeah, but to do it right, it
sure does.
Well, yeah, I want to do it
right.
To me, it's very important that
it not just be another
conference.
And that means I have to talk
with each of the discussion
leaders.
And then the other thing is the
two technological aspects of
the conference and then the
financial.
The two technological aspects
are Wi-Fi and webcast.
And those never ever work.
They just never seem to work.
If I could give up on them,
then the difficulty of the
conference would be like one
quarter is difficult.
But I have to somehow worry a
lot and then have it not work.
Yeah, in that regard, it's
still like a regular conference
.
Yeah, well, the thing is that I
was thinking of saying to Doug
Kay, who wants to, Doug wants
to do the...
Webcast.
The audio.
Yeah.
Well, I don't think it should
be webcast.
That's my feeling.
Because we can make it a lot
simpler if we're not trying to
webcast.
I agree.
We just set it up as RSS feeds
and go.
And record it.
Yeah, record it.
Definitely.
Yeah, and by the way, that's
the technology that I think
Doug really understands.
I don't think he's a streaming
guy.
I think he totally understands
how to record a conference well
and how to encode that and get
it up somewhere.
People can listen to it.
ITconferinations.com is full of
conferences.
It's good.
Right, but not streaming.
But you said he's not a
streaming expert?
No, I don't think so.
I mean, I don't know.
He doesn't seem like that's his
expertise.
I do know that he understands
conferences.
I think that without the
facility already prepared for
streaming and having tested it
15 times before he ended it.
It's always disappointing.
It's always fucking
disappointing.
It's effective to work.
Right.
And so, I mean, I'd like to do
that.
Yeah, so maybe we'll do it.
Or maybe we could just sort of
like allocate, ask people to
cover sessions and bring their
microphone and then at the end
of it, I mean, actually, that
would be a really good thing to
sort of look to you to help
with because, hey, this is what
we're talking about.
Yeah.
You want to, you know, maybe
you could ask that somewhere.
The only problem is, in order
to do it right, and I don't
know what the setup's like and
what the rooms are like, is if
this is an existing audio
system, you want to tap into
that.
And you can only really have
one person who knows what they
're doing do that.
Yeah.
All right, I have to go down
there and find out what's the
deal with the audio system.
Yeah, I'll help you with that.
Let me know what their setup is
.
Yeah.
They must have a spec sheet or
something.
They usually do.
I could get down there.
That's basically it.
I have to go and sort of like
that.
That'll be my job after I've
got the discussion with your
bootstrap.
So you could really help by
taking the lead on your
discussion and writing up your
own personal experience.
What you think, what's your
vision?
It doesn't have to be long.
I have another question for you
.
Yeah.
What's the best hotel to stay
at?
Hmm.
Well, let me write that one
down.
I don't know if there's info on
bloggercon.com?
We haven't done it yet.
Probably the--
Is .com or .org?
.org.
.org, sorry.
I haven't done the hotel stuff
yet.
There's something Garden Court
or something.
Why does that come to mind?
Hold on, let me look this up.
I'm going to give you a little
bit of look up music, Dave.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
It should be like the Jeopardy
theme song.
Oh, hold on.
Okay, hold on.
Let's see what it is.
Here we go.
It's the Garden Court Hotel.
It's in Palo Alto.
It's probably-- there's that.
It's the Stanford Court Hotel,
I think is what it's called.
I mean, you know, it's like--
Do you hear that?
Dave?
No.
I can't hear it.
It's the Garden Court is where
you want to stay.
It's 520 Calpers Street in Palo
Alto.
You can hear it now.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, I'm sorry.
So what's the name of it?
Yeah, you want to stay at the
Garden Court because it's right
next to Il Frenaya, which
is a really nice restaurant.
Garden Court.
Okay.
Yeah, it's 520 Calpers Street,
Palo Alto.
And, you know, I know you like
to stay in Nice Hotel.
This is a nice hotel.
And there's also, I think--
I'm downgrading my expectations
.
Are you?
Yeah, I'm not at work.
I have no work, you know.
I've got a big move coming up.
I like being unemployed, so I
don't want to go to the--
All right, let me give you that
.
Let me give you a little one,
then.
Okay, there's Sheraton Palo
Alto.
That's probably the closest
hotel.
And even that's not very close.
You do need to rent a car.
Okay.
And that's going to be sort of
your mid-price range hotel.
And then Ricky's Hyatt House is
nice.
Are you going to post this on
the site?
Well, sure.
Oh, you're not taking this.
Okay, Ricky's Hyatt House is
probably pretty good.
I'm trying to keep the show on
the air, Dave.
What are you talking about?
I'm calling Chicken Wire and
chewing gum here.
Oh, really?
So we're about at--
It's already 11.04 here.
And, God, what does that mean?
It's like 2004, which is--
Yeah.
It's 8 p.m. where you are,
right?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's not too bad.
Well, why don't you just say
the--
the-- the-- the theme song.
Let's get the fuck out of here.
All right.
Hey, listen, dude, we'll talk
sometime after the weekend.
Should be our signature sign-
off, by the way, if we're
looking for one.
Yeah, let's get the fuck out of
here.
That's our sign-off.
Hey, I'll talk to you after the
weekend, buddy.
Right on.
Take care, everybody, and we'll
check you out soon on Trade Sec
rets.
We are at Secrets--
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait.
I was going to talk to you.
It's Secrets-- Secrets.scr
atching.com.
Is that what you're going to do
?
Yeah, that's what I was going
to say.
Oh, sorry.
Let's get the fuck out of here.
Yeah.
All right.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
♪ Crazy, these heads will
finally ♪