(Music)
Throw 'em up! It's Trade Sec
rets now!
The doobiest crew's getting
beats for you, boy!
It's Trade-N-N-N-N-Secrets!
Trade secrets! Trade secrets!
These heads will finally peep
this!
Trade secrets! Trade secrets!
You don't need converse
speakers!
Trade secrets! Trade secrets!
These beats blow up your
speakers!
Trade secrets! Trade secrets!
These wonders fill my peeps on
the streets, that's how it's
meant to be
Sonard your heads and feel the
beat with taste and victory
Erase the macrolicious with
beats delicious, no negative
vibes here
We're playing this fear, know
my style is so high tech you
catch a critical beat down
Hip-Hop's ill-ass sound will
burn your lyrical streets down
I wanna bake my cake and eat it
too
These golden beats will see us
through the trade secrets
volume 2
Trade secrets! Trade secrets!
Hi everybody, this is Trade Sec
rets! I'm Adam Curry, sitting
here, nice and pretty in Curry
Castle in Belgium
Hey, it's Dave Weiner here, I'm
not very pretty but I'm from
Seattle, Washington
I said I was sitting pretty and
you said I was pretty
You were very pretty! I've
heard people say that about you
All the girls at BloggerCon,
they all crowd around Adam and
I asked them why, oh, well he's
so pretty
Yeah, but you know what, no one
makes any indecent proposals to
me ever!
Never, never ever
Unfortunately, it's probably
that sort of blonde wholesome
look that you've got
They're more likely to offer
you a milkshake
Hey Dave, fuck you very much
So this is our...
Not really, thank you, you're
not gonna get my time
But I'm blonde, come on
So here we are, self
congratulations, they're all in
order
We finally, after much trial
and error, we think now, knock
wood, praise Murphy, I'm not a
lawyer, my mother loves me, etc
, etc
All other disclaimers apply
We've been spending most of
today, it's now 11.37 a.m.
Most of today from my point of
view, most of the evening from
Adam's
To try to get this cross-cont
inental internet radio program
thing working
And perhaps now we actually
have it working, what do you
think?
It seems to be, although the
magic moment is about 6 minutes
and 22 seconds
That's when a wire tap, which I
'm using to record the signal of
both my microphone and the
signal that's coming in from
Seattle from Dave
That was kind of like the Max
and it would just flip out and
freeze up and it did some nasty
stuff
But it seems to be working now,
we switched, we were doing it
with Skype
Which although has a beautiful
sound quality and the latency
is very low
I think probably because it's
beta on the Macintosh and I'm
running a Mac and Dave's
running Windows
But for that reason, it's doing
something that the 6 minutes
was the magical moment and it
just wasn't working
But this really, from a
broadcast perspective, this is
blowing me away because when I
was doing radio or television
for that matter
If you wanted to bring someone
into the show, you either had
to call them via phone
Which is that very definite
phone sound, or you have to get
a satellite uplink, get someone
to go sit in the studio
Or if you're really lucky, then
you can put in a lease line
And the internet has always
been the promise for broadcast,
like hey, we can connect
everyone everywhere from any
place
I haven't seen much more in
technology when it comes to
stuff like this than the video
phones on CNN
I don't think many people are
using the technology this way,
but it seems to be working
And the idea is that we'll do,
I'm going to be very careful
and say, a weekly program and
just shoot the shit together
We've been friends for a number
of years and we've been talking
about doing a show like this
for a number of years
We've been talking about
working together for a number
of years
Well, you know, it's our phone
conversations generally sound
like they would be good things
to share with other people
But we put things on our to-do
list, our respective to-do list
, but somehow don't seem to ever
get them done
So this way, the ideas that we
have, they get out there, and
maybe we'll have some fun with
it along the way
And so we'll see what happens
First of all, a reminder that
all of our listeners are under
non-disclosure
That's what trade secrets is
all about
Yeah, we'll get to that at some
other point in time, but just
for now, you're not allowed to
tell anybody about this or what
we're talking about
Anything you tell us, of course
, anything that other people
tell us, of course, is not
confidential
No, we'll obviously discuss it
together
Everything that we tell you,
however, is confidential
That's the premise of the trade
secrets
We're going to trade secrets
here quite out in the open, but
they'll be your secrets, not
ours
So today being September 16,
2004, it's Thursday evening
where I am, it's about 8.40 now
, PM
And we've spoken a couple times
in the past two hours, and now
we're finally recording
everything
But you've been really excited,
Dave, about what's been going
on with Bush
Well, mostly, it's been what's
been going on with CNN
I mean, they've been intermix
ing CNN coverage of Hurricane
Ivan with coverage of the
campaign, the president's
campaign
And when we were talking before
, it was like this wonderful
magic little moment
They had President Bush
climbing the stairs to Air
Force One, and his shoulders
were slumped
And he turned around, he looked
really tired and kind of
confused, and he waved
And as he was waving, the
headline comes up on the screen
, "The Future of Iraq"
And I thought, wow, well, this
is what lives in the future of
Iraq
But you know how that works,
Dave? You know how that works?
They're sitting in the control
room, right? And there's a
million things going on
And someone says, "All right,
bring up the lower third of
Iraq, all right, go Kyron!"
But somebody, they must have a
resident comedian, taking the
exact moment to put that on,
don't you think?
Well, he's surely the same guy
who, I put that on my web blog,
who identified the Czech
Republic as Switzerland on a
nice slide on CNN
That was good
Yeah, it was also the guy that
played the Howard Dean's Dream
80,000 times and knocked him
out of the race
Well, that's exactly right
I think something happened in
the last 24 hours or whatever,
sometime pretty recently
I think CNN decided that they
want Kerry to win the election,
and so now the spin is heavily,
heavily in favor of Kerry
And heavily against Bush, they
make Kerry look good in every
chance they get, and they make
Bush look like a complete loser
Which, you know, not totally
appreciated
I mean, I thought about this in
between our various meltdowns
that we had today, is like, you
know, he is our president
And, you know, why, you know, I
've spent a lot of time in the
last few months reading books
about the American presidency
And, you know, dignified people
like George Washington, Teddy
Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson,
Franklin Roosevelt, Harry
Truman, even Lyndon Johnson,
John Kennedy, even Ronald
Reagan
You know, that they sort of had
a presence that you kind of,
you know, you don't want to, I
mean, they are the president of
the United States
And, you know, it's
disrespectful to the United
States
However, Bush is such a lout,
he lies to me so much, and he
clearly doesn't want, he wants
support without deserving
support
Whereas a guy like Truman had
to put up with a lot of crap
from McCarthy and from Mac
Arthur, and, you know, through
all of it, he kept his head,
you know, high
And, you know, he always said
things like, "The buck stops
here," and I think Kerry's
lying about how, you know, Bush
just, the buck just cruises
right by his death
Dude, you know what, Kerry
should do that, he should just
say, "The buck stops here," why
is he, he can hijack that?
Yeah, I think that, I think
Kerry has, is getting some good
advice, I think he's got some
people sitting next to him on
the campaign playing who are
not just sort of, I don't think
Carl is actually on the plane
I think a lot of that is, I
think it's the guy that was in
the Dukakis campaign, which
everybody sort of, you know,
laughed at, but he got fired
from the Dukakis campaign for
being too aggressive
So I think it was Dukakis'
fault that he got, you know,
they got pulled out of there
I think Kerry's going to pull
it out, I think Kerry's going
to win, and I think he's going
to win with the help of CNN,
and, but it feels like nobody's
, or I don't know, feels like
nobody's buying Bush's bulls of
anyone
Can I throw a conspiracy theory
on you there for a second day?
Sure, sure
So, maybe, and this is only
because I was listening to that
BBC radio documentary about Sk
ull and Bones, could it be?
I haven't heard that one, but I
know
Oh, okay, yeah, I had on the
source code, you haven't heard
my source code for today yet
No
I found this half hour
documentary that BBC actually
went to Yale, went to the
campus and knocked on the door
at Skull and Bones, and, you
know, of course they weren't
let in, but they talked to
different people
They had audio of one of the
initiation rites, which is, you
know, guys screaming like, sque
aling like pigs, but that's
pretty typical, shocking for
the British, no doubt
But, you know, the
I mean, the British never do
that
[Laughter]
Well, they don't know that
I'm sorry, I'm being your sakes
, man, here
No, no, no, they don't, the
British don't know about
college initiation, you know,
it's like, that's a very
foreign concept to them
Yeah, they don't have that
Well, the idea was that they're
all, the Skull and Bones guys
are all sort of on the same
team, and no matter what
happens, I don't believe that
for a second
No, okay
I don't believe that now, I don
't think so, I mean
Well, CNN will only do this if
they have something to gain,
and if they really made such a
radical switch that you're
seeing, and I don't have it on
here, there's got to be some
kind of gain in it for them,
you know, someone behind the
scenes is saying something to
make them do that
Yeah, they made some kind of a
deal with Kerry, probably, you
know, it may not have been,
yeah, I mean, that I don't
doubt, but that kind of stuff
happens, of course it does, I
mean, you know, I can extrapol
ate from my experience in the
tech industry that, you know,
the other time, I mean, it's a
time-warner publication, right,
CNN has
Yeah
There are other time-warner
publications that if you want
to get on the cover of, you
have to, you know, first of all
, they have to do a deal with
you, and they'll never present
you in a negative light
Right
And then you have to do a deal
with them, is that you give
them a certain amount of access
Or how about deregulation?
Yeah, any number of different
things, you know, I think in
the case of CNN, they're sort
of scrambling to try to kill
Fox, or get on top of Fox again
, you know, and so, you know, if
they're going to compete with
Fox, and Fox is going to be
with the Republicans, then they
kind of have to be with the
Democrats, and I don't really
care how they do it
Dave, listen to what you just
said, that sounded like fucking
science fiction
The Democrats of CNN and the
Republicans of Fox, I mean,
that's so surreal
At the same time, well, okay,
so we envision a better future,
right, one where, you know, the
people are running this show
that we fulfill all the promise
of the founding fathers and
whatever, but we need to
survive to get to that
Right, and so being highly
pragmatic about this, you know,
what scares the Jesus out of me
is the idea that Bush gets re
elected, and all of a sudden,
you know, that next domino in
the axis of evil is North Korea
, and you know that's going to
be fought with nuclear weapons,
right?
It is, well, you know that my
uncle is now, well, not anymore
, but was doing all the
negotiations with North Korea
Really?
Yeah, he's Donald Greg
Uh-huh
Look him up
And so what would he say?
He hates the whole Bush
administration, he's a very sta
unch Republican, he was a
personal advisor to Bush Sr.
when he was VP
And then he was ambassador to
Korea
Remember when they were
throwing rocks and shit over
the wall in the embassy in
Korea?
Uh-huh
Yeah, well, my uncle was living
there at the time
Oh, really?
Yeah, and so he heads up the
Korean Society, KoreanSociety.
org, and he's told me literally,
I've seen him on CNN a couple
of times as well, he's told me
literally, he said, "Anim, they
have the capability and they
will use it because they're
just making money."
They will use it because they
're just being pushed into a
corner
Yeah, yeah, I've heard that too
, but you know, if you stop and
listen to what the North
Koreans say, they actually is a
logic to it, and they're pretty
freaked out, and they didn't
like it when Bush called them
the Axis of Evil
Axis of Evil, yeah, of course
And then when they, when we
invaded Iraq, of course, that
convinced them that they were
next, and you know, I think
that actually that's fairly
rational, I think they're in a
pretty good chance they are
next
And so with the second Bush
administration, you know, we're
going to see this successor to
the Patriot Act, and we're
going to see this successor to
the war in Iraq
And he's not going to have any
troops to send into Korea
because they're all committed
in Iraq, so what choice does he
have but to send in the bombers
and the heavy, you know, the
heavy bombs, and does he have
any compunction about that?
And no, I don't think he has
any filters to say, you know,
this is a line that we won't
cross. I'd love to hear him say
that, I'd love to hear him say,
you know
That's a line we won't cross,
yeah
He won't say it, in fact, I
think he said the opposite,
that, you know, basically all
of our tools are on the table
and we'll use them all if we
feel we need to, so, and you
know, so we're not doing any of
the things, you know, they give
carry shit for having, you know
, voted for energy conservation
and higher taxes on gasoline
and stuff like that, but you
know, stop and think about it
I actually think we should be
paying more for gasoline and I
think that we're selling our
country, you know, we're
selling out real cheap, you
know, by, you know, using more
gas than we can afford to use,
so anyway, so we'll buy a
little bit of time
The bottom line is, or my
bottom line, is that no matter
what's being said, what
documentaries are being made,
you know, what allegations are
being thrown out there, what
military service records, I don
't have one, by the way, are
being disputed, refuted, etc.
The scariest thing we can do is
promise to go vote
Yeah
That's gonna scare anybody
Yeah, for now at least, I mean,
you know, some people think
that if Bush loses the election
, then well, you know, the vote
didn't count for some reason
Oh, you think there'll be
another 2000 moment there?
Well, I think it'll be
interesting to see if Bush
actually goes to Alabama and
Mississippi, which were both,
or Alabama especially, which
was hit by this hurricane, but
if he only goes to Florida, you
know, I mean
That'll be pretty transparent
if he does that
Yeah, he's going to Florida for
sure though, I mean, that's
where all the votes are, so
anyway, so let's see, what else
should we talk about today?
Well, there's something I want
to talk to you about
Um, because, what?
Go for it
Yeah, what, because we touched
on it briefly in a phone
conversation a couple days ago
about A9.com, the new search
engine from,
was it, is Amazon and Alexa?
Yeah, and I think it's built on
Google
On Google, yeah, it seems like
I'm getting kind of the same
results
Did they license that from
Google? They have to, I guess,
don't they?
Yeah, oh yeah, it's built right
on top of Google, yeah
Okay
That's why it's so weird that
people say that this is like,
you know, threatening to Google
in some way, because it looks
like Google has all the upside
Amazon does, you know
Now, have you used it?
Uh, enough to know that, yes, I
have used it enough to know
that I'm not interested in it,
yeah
I mean, it, you know, it's hard
to, somebody asked, like, why I
still use IE after all of the,
you know, spyware and adware
and all that crap, I'm still
dealing with it, it's not over
All the assholes that, you know
, I figured out how to invade
before service back to or, we
'll get back to you
Are now invading SP2, right?
Oh yeah, they're totally there,
they're all over it
And now I heard there's this,
there's this, you can get a
virus through J-Bus
Did you, did you, uh, that, I
didn't know that, did you hear
a beep just now?
No
Oh, I just heard it, okay
You have call waiting?
No, I don't have call waiting,
but it was really interesting,
now my email, my email just
checked itself, right?
Oh, okay, you got a, you got a
beep, yeah
Yeah, but you didn't hear the
beep, did you?
No, because that's not running
through this, I've learned
about this, that's not running
through your audio driver
Right, because if you did hear
the beep, that would mean I
could play music on the set
Oh, I wish
And you would hear it, yeah, it
would have been something,
right?
I wish, I wish, now that does
it
Because, you know, the song for
the day, the song for today is,
I, I mean, I stumbled across it
, it's legalized, but it's not
Legalized
Don't criticize it
Legalized, yeah, yeah, and I
will advertise it
Some call it time to kill
Some call it to weed
Some call it marijuana
Some of them call it ganja
Legalized, legalized
And don't criticize it
Legalized, yeah, yeah, and I
will advertise it
Singer's Smokage
And players of instrument too
Legalized, yeah, yeah, that's
the best thing you can do
Dr. Smokage
Nurse's Smokage
Judges Smokage
Even the lawyer too
So you got to legalize it
And don't criticize it
Legalized, yeah, yeah, and I
will advertise it
It's good for the soul
It's good for asthma
Good for tumor colosis
Even tumor opacoscosis
Dr. Legalized
Don't criticize it
Legalized, yeah, yeah, and I
will advertise it
Birds
And sea love it
Fousy day
Goes left to play with it
So you got to legalize it
And don't criticize it
Legalized, yeah, yeah, and I
can't imagine the RIA suing you
for using that one
This is coming to you from
Belgium where everything's
legal
Yeah, exactly, this is coming
to you from the United States
where absolutely nothing is
legal
My daughter's sitting here, she
's in the other side of the room
, she said, "No, it's not"
She's sitting behind her
computer downloading MP3s
Yeah, that's amazing
You let her do that
Do I let her download MP3s?
Yeah, do you?
Yeah, absolutely
Well, we talk about this a lot,
she's a big fan of Good
Charlotte
And I mean like a really big
fan
I buy the legal MP3s of the new
CD
Yeah, she has, okay, so that's
Christina in the background
She always buys the CDs, in
fact
What did she say?
She said, "I'm downloading
illegal MP3s of the new album
as we speak"
But she's going to go out and
buy the album because she likes
them, she supports them, I didn
't force her to do that
She buys CDs, why do you buy,
Christina, come over here for a
second, come over here for one
second
Hold on a second Dave, let's
get her in here
Hey, Christine, nice to meet
you
Do you really think that you're
, do you think...
You know what, I just realized
something, I just realized
something that her voice may
not have been recorded
So I'll just recap what she
said, she said that it's taking
so long for the album to come
out
That she's downloading MP3s of
people who've recorded it
And when it does come out, she
's going to buy the album, she
always does
Now, do you think that that's
typical or do you think she's
unusual in that?
I think she's very typical, I
think that's what most kids do
I mean, the thing is, they get
all this entertainment through
MTV
And I'm sure, I don't know what
it's like in the States, but
here we have four different
music video channels
You know, it's like she sits in
front of the TV with MSN, she's
chatting to her friends
You know, they can SMS onto the
screen, I don't think she does
that
But you know, people, there's a
lower third banner running
across the screen
So people basically chatting
via SMS, that's then broadcast
on television
So they're watching the videos
and they're consuming it, you
know
And then they only buy the
stuff that they really, I think
really want to support that
they're big fans of
They don't just go out and buy
stuff
I got to interrupt you, I got
to interrupt you for a second
They're running a great ad for
Carrie on CNN right now, which
you can see it
You use a technique that is
incredible, I just tuned into
it
They have a picture speaking at
the beginning, sort of saying
something really stupid about
it
It's an economic program, but
they have this picture postage
stamp size
And it's kind of grainy
And then they get the citizens
come on and comment, they're
full screen and it's all high
fidelity
They make this tiny little
idiot
But that's how it works, man,
that's how it works
I know, I know it's beautiful,
it's great, we got to copy that
shit
We're going all the way with
this thing at them
We're going to do like, you
know, radio broadcast, radio,
and then we're going to go for
TV too
Why not? As long as I can stay
at home and use my webcam, that
's fine
Yeah, well, I mean, you might
have to have a camera crew
there along with your webcam
Oh boo, bah-hum-bah
You don't think so, huh?
Well, no, we don't need that
You've been there since that
We did our reality show that
was broadcast here
And we got humongous ratings,
even on the third repeat of the
show
We did it with one cameraman
who was using a DV cam, which
is basically a prosumer device
We had two sets of wireless
mics, one of which I'm still
using now
And we did the whole show with
one editor on Max with Final
Cut Pro and was broadcast
nationally
You know, it didn't hurt the
ratings that it was done on
prosumer
Alright, so you know how to
make it look good with...
Yeah, yeah, definitely
With people's hardware,
basically
But that's what it is, all this
stuff with these radio shows or
audio shows, it's the same
thing
You've got to know what you're
doing, it's all in there
You can achieve the same, if
not better results as you could
in a professional setup
There's no two ways about it
Alright, let's go through some
of the hot items for today
Like, I want to talk with you a
little bit about the Firefox R
SS controversy that sort of
popped up today
Do you know what that is?
Yeah, I've been following the
...
Now, let me see if I understand
what's happened
That Firefox, which is...
Is that a Mozilla derivative?
Is that what that is?
Yeah
Okay, so it's a web browser and
it now can recognize RSS feeds
And from what I understand, it
's doing kind of like half or
maybe even one-eighth of what
Apple is planning with Safari
and RSS
We can basically bookmark an R
SS feed and then from that book
mark, you get a hierarchical
menu with new elements that
have shown up
Is that kind of what it does?
Yeah, it sounds like we finally
got to the bottom of it and
that's pretty much what you're
seeing
And they only understand feeds
that are the title, link,
description format
And so if you, like with my
blog, only some of the items
actually have titles and almost
never have links
So if you're missing one of
those elements, then it doesn't
take
I'm not exactly sure how cripp
led it is, but yeah
It either doesn't recognize the
feed at all or it only
recognizes items that have
those three elements
But it's like, you know, I don
't know how to say this politely
Don't, this is what trade
secrets are supposed to be
about there
Well, I know, but people get
sensitive and they think that
if I say something that isn't
positive about their irrigator
or whatever
Well then just don't say
something negative, it's
positive criticism, come on,
this is what people want to
hear about that
No, thanks for that, it really
helps, but it reminds me of
what happened with Outliners in
the 80s
I mean we came out with an Out
liner and designed a product for
organizing your thinking
And that was the center of what
we were doing
Everything was judged, every
feature was judged by how well
it suited that application
And then the word processor
guys, WordPerfect first, and
Microsoft, they all added
features that they called Out
lining
But didn't do that, they didn't
support the ideation creative
process
And they were basically
formatting, I mean WordPerfect
basically, what they called Out
lining allowed you to put Roman
numerals
And then section headings, they
basically used the Harvard Out
line format, it was a printing
formatting thing
But they called that Outlining
and people got really confused,
which was really unfortunate
And the whole idea got diluted
and, you know, I think it
turned into PowerPoint, Outlin
ers turned into PowerPoint
Right, so even that was a
better Outliner than Word
Perfect was, or Word, at least
they were doing what Outliners
were roughly supposed to do
Although not all that well
But the same thing is happening
with aggregators now, and I'm
really...
Now this is the extreme example
, that's not an aggregator, it's
not even very useful
It's sort of a gimmick to be
able to say...
To say RSS inside, that's what
it's for
Yeah, we do RSS, but what
happens is people look at it
and they go, well, jeez, that
doesn't seem very useful
And then they conclude from
that that RSS is very useful
RSS sucks, right, right, right
Right, and I hate to see that
happen
So, and I think that, you know,
if they want to support RSS in
the browser
The way to do it is to
basically emulate a web server
inside the browser
And do a real aggregator that
goes and gets the news every,
you know, period of time, every
hour
And then it goes to you in
reverse chronological order so
that you can actually get the
leverage that an aggregator
provides
So, you know, this is like...
Once we get to the bottom of it
, I go, oh jeez, here we go
again, you know
But, you know, I don't think
that the feature is worth
bending the feeds for
I mean, the feeds are doing
something useful and if the
tool doesn't want to do
something useful with it, well,
you know
Maybe they can try again, and
you know, since it's still a
course, of course, maybe
somebody else can help them out
there
Right, well I am...
I certainly do want to help
there myself
Yeah, just from looking at the
screenshots, I immediately knew
this is something I did not
need to download, you know
I was like, no, that's not
going to do it for me
It's one billionth as
interesting as what's going on
in the enclosures world
Excuse me, we're also running
into similar issues there
Although from a different
vantage point where on iPodder.
org
Where, you know, the iPodder is
just intended to be very simple
You know, all it's intended to
do is to bring in these enclos
ures from feeds that are
subscribed to and drop them
onto your MP3 player
That's it
And since there's basically a
lack of RSS feeds with enclos
ures
A couple of developers have
said, oh, well look, I've
modified this now, so it scrap
es the HTML
Which, although a great feature
, you know, it does not... it
totally detracts from what we
're trying to accomplish
Yeah, that's a sophisticated
thought that you want to sort
of be a little picky about what
you're doing
Because you're not just looking
for the functionality, right?
You're actually trying to
evangelize a format
You're trying to get people up
to a certain level so that then
, presumably, we can ask them to
do more, right?
That shouldn't necessarily be
the end of it, you know
But they have to basically
support RSS 2.0 and the
enclosure feature
And then, you know, then we're
starting to get somewhere
I also see that you're, you
know, and I think you're doing
this the right way
That part, it's hard because
what you're trying to do there
is say, hold on a minute
This isn't, you know, let's not
go that route
And I heard you say that in the
source code that I listened to
last night
I haven't listened to the
current one yet, but...
Don't worry, I said the same
thing again
Yeah, and you're gonna... but
that's gonna be the harder one
The one that's easier is to
continue drill on the need for
easy installers
Oh, man, yeah
Right, and that's also very
important is because the
expectation of a user is that,
you know
There's a certain level of
professionalism that they
expect
And if they don't see it, they
don't trust it
Right
And, you know, it's not
entirely logical
You know, the inference isn't
entirely logical
But the people think that way
and programmers generally don't
understand that
They don't get it, that people
... that they have to cater to
people's irrationalities
That that's, you know, the
unfortunate or fortunate,
actually
There's nothing wrong with
giving people what they want
If it doesn't get in the way of
, you know, of making the whole
thing work
The problem is, of course, is
when people want things that
break
Want features that break the
basic idea
Like, for example, people
wanted WYSIWYG with the web,
you know
That was the first thing, you
know, as the web came along, it
was the first thing everybody
said
Well, you know, let me know
when this is WYSIWYG
But the problem is the web wasn
't a WYSI environment
So it couldn't ever be WYSIWYG
But marketing guys hired
programmers and they said
basically if you...
Go make it WYSIWYG
Right, we'll fire you and the
programmers will come back and
say
"Well, we can't because the web
isn't a WYSI environment"
And they go, "There you go,
programmers are so difficult"
You know what I mean?
I hear you, actually, it's so
funny because I listened to the
interaction between you and
Andrew Grummit yesterday
And, you know, as the day
before that you were describing
, you know
The automated process for
creating an RSS feed from a
folder of Mp3 files, right?
Using the ID3 information,
which was something we had
talked about
And you sort of said, "Well,
you know, this has just got to
be made easier"
And, you know, I'm sure
somebody will figure this out
And as I was thinking it
through, I was going, you know,
it's just simply...
There's something that just can
't be made easier
And that's one of them
So, you know, Andrew basically
said that
But there's this moment where
the user has to create the
association
Between the name of the folder
on some hard disk somewhere and
a URL
As you use to access that
folder over the web
And I think probably, if I
understood what Andrew was
saying correctly
I think he probably found the
sweet spot in it
However, it's got a flaw to it
Which is that you have to be
able to run software on your
server
And probably so many people don
't have the ability to do that
That there's probably not...
The only way to get around this
one, I think, is to offer a
hosting service for this stuff
And I don't want to do that
Well, I think there's another
way around it
Because now you hit on three
points
First of all, I think Andrew
hit the brilliance of what his
DIR2 RSS script is
The fact that it's doing
exactly that
It's sitting in a folder
If you understand the concept
of that
Then you can understand what's
kind of needed
The big problem that we're
running...
I'm not running into, but that
we're going to run into
With anyone who does something
like this regularly
And doesn't have money to fuck
around with
Is bandwidth
Storage is one thing
I've just been doing this for a
couple of weeks
And I already have half a gig
of mp3 files that I've created
But bandwidth
You get one slash dot
And people say, "Oh, well, let
me go listen to all these shows
"
Or "Let me install iPodder"
And then you get the 10 most
recent entries
Or I think I even said a little
bit smaller
The five most recent entries
Times an average of 20 megs
But you're on your way to
solving this problem
Here's how that's working
The way you're going to solve
it, as I see it, is with this
mail list that you've got going
What's it called? iPodder
developer?
Yeah, it's a Yahoo group
Here's the steps that we go
through to solve the bandwidth
problem
We know that BitTorrent is at
the core of the solution here
The problem with BitTorrent
And I found this after I
finally decided to use it
I was in Madison, Wisconsin, a
few weeks ago
And I was getting ready to go
into the Netherlands
Not your Netherlands, but the
wilderness of the matter
This is where you ping me and
you say "Honor the BitTorrent"
I try to find something that I
can download
Because none of this shit is
downloadable
They make this big promise that
"Hey, BitTorrent is so cool"
But nobody actually is hosting
enough of the content for me
To be able to download the
things that I want
So, right
If we want to use BitTorrent,
and I think we do
Because that's how we solve the
problem
Then we have to solve the next
problem
How can we be sure that there's
at least five places to
download it from
On a given day?
Yeah
I've been thinking about this
because
You're absolutely right
Let me just recount what
happened there
You wanted to download some
movies
Specifically, you wanted to
download some old SNLs
Saturday Night Live
Which I don't think there are
hardly any Saturday Night Live
BitTorrents
But I said, "BitTorrent really
works best
When something is new,
something is fresh
And everybody wants it because
what you get then
Is asking people to keep their
application open
To see the file is horseshit
That's almost like saying "Pain
ty"
Because you're using bandwidth,
etc
And you can't count on people
to do that
They're going to leech
But with BitTorrent, from what
I understand
The brilliance of it is that if
you download one megabyte
You're probably pushing up a
meg and a half
Okay?
So there's a formula in there
And if on one day, across a 24-
hour spectrum
People say, "Okay, we all want
this show"
I'm right there with you, I've
already figured that out
We've already got that
I know, but our listeners haven
't, Dave
Oh, yeah, I forgot about them
Go ahead, go ahead
Yeah, I guess you've got to
include them in here
What the hell?
Let them figure it out
Yeah, you figure it out
We'll clutch here ourselves
Let me just summarize what Adam
was going to say
Don't forget to mention the
part
Yeah, well, there's a lot of
porn involved in this
Okay?
But here's the deal
You need to have places that
are actually...
A current thing, like your
source code is perfect for BitT
orrent
Right?
Because at any given moment,
there's one current one
Same thing is true with this
show
There's only going to be one
current one
So what we have to make sure is
that
Before or concurrent with the
release of it
We've got five people, maybe on
a rotating basis
Who are willing to have it open
In other words, premeditate
that
I'll give you another case in
point
The other day, Boing Boing had
a BitTorrent of...
I forget what it was, but it
was...
Yeah, I wish I remembered what
it was, but I can't
But it was something that was
mildly instinctive
I said, "Okay, Boing Boing is a
high-flow block, right?"
So I figure if I click on the
link
I'm going to be able to
download this thing
No way
It missed the bootstrap, it
didn't have enough
So in other words, to make BitT
orrent work
It's not enough just to put up
the torrent file
And hope for the best
You actually also have to get
five or whatever the number is
Let me throw this at you for a
second
I've posted a couple of BitTor
rent RSS feeds
Just testing stuff
And what I found...
The bootstrap that I would use
in this case
Is I have a BitTorrent client
and server
Running on a server in my data
facility
So I upload my torrent
And it's basically sitting
there open
So it always has one node
My theory was there should be
no difference
Between me having a web server
With an mp3 file on it
That people can click and
download it
To me having a file on a web
server
That you get to through BitTor
rent
It should make no difference,
right?
You don't need five people
And get it?
Yeah, no, I've had no problems
at all
But that is a bootstrap
Because the ultimate fantasy
Is to just have my computer at
home
Just let that be the one node
if I'm publishing
And if you're publishing
If you want to broadcast
There's gotta be some pain
somewhere, right?
I don't have a problem with
that
I think that I'm willing to do
an experiment with this
If you want
First of all, let me ask you a
question
Are you willing to host these
things
On a torrent server up on your
place?
Yeah, these shows? Of course
Okay, definitely
Of course, you've been doing it
with the daily source code
The source code isn't...
Exactly, that's not a BitTor
rent download
But of course, I have it all
set up
Why not?
For exactly the reasons you
just mentioned
I didn't want people to fall
off the edge of the map
I want them to get the fucking
show
Yeah, well, okay
Maybe we ought to do both,
though
So that people want to help
bootstrap
I mean, the beauty of the mail
list that you've got there
Is that it is sort of...
It's like the early days of
Frontier
The mail list, we went for like
two years without a single
flame
It was just like this great
community
And everybody was pitching in
to help
Actually, it was more than two
years
And so it's a great time to say
Okay, let's do some things that
are good for the internet
And they'll go for it, I think
And this is a beautiful thing
because it doesn't require
That you be a developer to do
it
You just have to be a technical
user
To set up BitTorrent on your
desktop
That's not a big deal
If you've got a good pipe to
the internet
Then that's great
I now have a great pipe
I've got a high band with a
cable set up here
I'm smoking a great pipe, Dave
Yeah, you're...
Oh, yeah, well, you know
God will get you...
Maude used to say that
Walter God will get you for
that one
Oh
So we got a couple of questions
I want to switch
Can I just finish up on the Bit
Torrent really quick
Because I think that I'd love
to do that
And of course I'm going to host
all the tests that we're going
to do
But I think the real, as we say
, the egg of Columbus
Is combining iPodder with
publishing and receiving
And BitTorrent all in one
I mean, if we can have one
thing
And you have two folders on
your desktop
One is for receiving, one is
for sending
And the stuff that comes into
the receive folder
It may go automatically
somewhere else
But I think it's got to be that
simple
It does
And I would encourage you at
this moment
Not to worry too much about the
brain dead simplicity
I think what you're doing is
incredibly valuable
You're defining the feature set
Of what the ideal product will
be
And I plan to work on this once
we...
I mean, and that doesn't mean I
'm the only one that plans to
work on this
But after the open source
release of Frontier has
happened
I hope to get some developers
to work with me on this
I've already talked with a few
people
On exactly that
And create something that's r
ommable
That can be put onto, you know
What do you mean rommable?
I mean, rommable in the sense
that
I don't literally mean nothing
is really rommable anymore
Rommable means...
It used to be, well, you know,
you're...
I don't know if your Mac has a
ROM BIOS
But my PC does
A read-only memory?
Yeah, what? It's read-only
memory, right?
And it's like the lizard-lizard
brain
It's the lizard brain or the
lizard brain of the PC, right?
I mean, there's still bosses
sitting in there
Okay, that's where all the core
shit sits, right?
Yeah, it's like, you know, you
build...
These things are all piles of
stuff built on top of each
other
And the beauty...
Why the ROM BIOS was so
important
And when it came out, which was
like 81
Or something like that, was
that you could be
Absolutely sure that it was the
same on every computer
And Compact sort of like, you
know, created the mold
They didn't break the mold,
they created the mold
By directly emulating the ROM
BIOS
Without using the ROM BIOS
And... Do you know Rich Levent
ov?
No, no
Rich is... He's in sort of like
...
He's in your sixth degree
I mean, he's a friend of mine
So it's like second degree for,
you know, whatever
Like six degrees of separation
Yeah, right, Rich was one of
the original authors
Of the ROM BIOS
He's a friend of a friend
He's a friend of a friend, and
he's a VC in Boston
I just got an email from him,
actually
And I also got an email from
Joshua Allen at Microsoft
Reminding me
He says, "Welcome to Seattle
You've only got a week or two
to register to vote
So your next first priority
should be to register"
Yeah, good point
Send me a link, and I'll
absolutely...
I have to get a library card,
too
And, boy, anyway, that's a
whole other subject
Listen, I wanted to ask you...
Let's come back, we'll probably
do another one of these
We'll probably do this every
fucking day, you know what I
mean?
We'll do it as often as we've
got them well pleased, Dave
There you go, right?
So the thing I want to ask you
now is
First of all, okay, so we've
got this
Apparently have this working
Your machine didn't blow up,
right?
Oh, God, you're inviting Murphy
in the door
No, no, it didn't, I'm not
going to...
I'm standing under garlic
Wouldn't it be horrible after
41 minutes if it crashed?
No, no, no, we don't want that
to happen
No, we don't want that to
happen
I didn't crash, and we're very
pleased that it didn't
And we're totally not worthy,
and we don't deserve it
So it seems like this much
works
So now the question is
Could we have a second, a third
person
Involved in this conversation
using this technology
Could we...
The answer is...
We're going to do something...
What?
You ready for the answer?
The answer is yes
I'm sitting down...
Whoa, hell...
The answer is yes, and...
Because actually, I'm using i
Chat AV
Which is Apple's instant
message client
That is compatible with AOL's
Instant message client
Which is how we're setting up
this conversation
But iChat AV has the capability
To bring up to ten different
people in a voice chat
Yeah, so...
Another question, next question
Could we listen to a tune right
now?
We could listen to a tune, the
only problem is
You wouldn't hear it, and that
's the part that I'm working on
Because...
Right, but do you have one que
ued up right now by any chance?
Oh, I can have one queued up
Well, see now, the only thing
is
I'm really worried about doing
this during our first show
Let's not do that
Okay, this first one is going
to be plain Jane's
Yeah, but we'll try that on the
next run
Yeah
Okay, next one, we'll do it
early
So that if it screws up...
But here's the problem Dave
Let me just explain the problem
Because this is...
It's driving me...
I wake up in the middle of the
night
Thinking about how to solve
this fucking problem
Let me see if I can approach
this
Okay, so the Mac has...
Uses drivers for audio
I think that's the same with
any computer
You can choose between your
internal microphone
Or your line in
And then you can set up these
Virtual devices
That let you...
And this is the crazy part
Because I'm familiar with it
The concept from the studio
You can patch audio for one
application to the other
So, what is needed
Is I need to patch
The output of anything that
I play
So let's say I use iTunes
Or QuickTime Player
I have to patch that output
Into the input
Of my iChat AV client
So that it'll be acting like a
microphone
Sending that down the line to
you
Which also means
I have to patch my microphone
through
To you
At the same time, I have to
patch my microphone
To the speaker so I can record
my mic
I mean, it's driving me fucking
crazy
Because I can record everything
I can play a song now
And I'd be jamming around with
it
But A, I'd have to find...
I'd have to have a way to mute
you
Because if you don't shut up
Then you're going to be talking
through the record
B, I'd like you to hear it
You look so bad about that
I don't see my problems
As long as you're singing on
key
It doesn't matter, you're right
I never sing on key
What are you talking about?
No, but I love doing a little
...
I love sort of like...
I'm emulating you
I'm trying to learn how to do
this
You have to talk through at
least the beginning
Oh yeah, you got to talk up the
intro
Yeah, definitely
See, that's the whole trick
The trick, this is what DJs in
the 80s
Totally, totally were into
And I still do...
It's crazy, I still do this in
the car
So you hear a song
And what you want to do is you
want to be talking
Then you hit the song and it
starts
And you know roughly how long
the intro is
So you can fit your story in
And then you kind of want to
end up with saying
"Well, everybody, here's
Madonna"
And then the minute you shut up
You want the vocals to start
Which is a very, very 80s DJ
way of doing it
Which a lot of people hate
So really, I love it
And I love the way you do it
too
It's been you've been getting
better and better
And better on a daily source
code
I find iTunes, by the way
It was an article in the New
York Times
Where people were like infer
ring
Mystical qualities to the
choices their iTunes
Was making, their iPod was
making
When you put the random song on
I've been finding it that's
absolutely true
Oh, when it opened up
When it's the next song it
plays on random
Yeah, well when I play my own
recording
Like today I had the not a
morning coffee note
So that was the title of it,
right?
And so the song it played right
after that
Was "Nowhere Man"
Now of course the iPod didn't
pick that
It was an alphabetical order,
right?
But boy, was it perfect, I mean
, wow
You know, here's this guy
making all these
Animal sounds and barnyard
sounds
And what's the comment on it?
"Well, he's a Nowhere Man"
Like, okay, got it
Well, but see, I use my iPod
differently
I can't do that
Because if I put it on random
If I just let it scan through
the library
I'm going to pick up Christmas
songs
I'm going to pick up different
audio
Yeah, stuff that I don't want
to listen to
No, no, that didn't happen
I didn't use the random, I don
't use it either
I can't for that reason
Because it's not, you know,
whatever
Although I wouldn't put it past
Apple
To have some kind of algorithm
In their quote-unquote random
izer
That may even look for genres
or something
It's certainly something that
would be a nice feature
I mean, I think you and I have
talked about this before
Radio stations have formats
You know, they play a 60 song
at the top of the hour
Followed by an 80 song, then a
new song
Whatever, depends on what the
format is
What a great feature to have
Formats generated in your MP3
player
Well, you know that someday we
'll be doing that for sure
There's no question about it
Well, we can do it now
I created a whole thing in
Radio Userland
That did just that
You did?
Yeah, don't you remember that
script
That copy-paste script that had
windows flying
All over the place?
Oh, yeah
Okay, put a bookmark down on it
I want to tell that story
someday
Because that's an amazing story
I mean, well, whatever
That is, to me, the essence
Of where the users and
developers get together
At that point, we're a user
And now you're on your way to
becoming a developer
But you were a user that was so
motivated
That you didn't take no for the
answer, right?
Well, I'm still doing that
Exactly, and that's the charm
That's why I like you, that's
why you're my buddy
A lot of love in the room
I know, guys, I'm sorry
We have a...
Why did I say that?
I don't know, it was quite
disgusting
So, right back at you
So we have like 12 minutes to
go until we've recorded a whole
hour
I think we should limit
ourselves to an hour
Oh, is that our budget? We're
only doing an hour?
Okay, great
Whatever you want
My car is great
I gotta actually do some stuff
today
Well, I wanted to entice you
To talk about BloggerCon
So that that way you're not
trying to promote it yourself
But fuck, I want to talk about
it
Because, you know, all I know
is November 6th
I know it's a Palo Alto
I know what I'm doing
But what the hell is going to
happen?
No, you don't, you don't know
Let's talk about what you're
doing
Let's do that
This is the perfect time to do
that
So I tell you what I thought I
was doing?
Well, let me just sort of go
over
Just a refresher
You have been to BloggerCon
But you didn't go to the second
one, right?
Well, my wife became ill
So I had to turn around
I couldn't get into the second
one
No, no, no, right
Obviously, there was a good
reason for you not to go to the
second one
But things sort of changed at
the second one
Okay
Or the whole concept got
refined more
And then after the conference
Len Pryor from Microsoft wrote
a piece called
He described it as the "Uncon
ference"
What does he do with Microsoft?
He's Skobel's boss
That's probably the best way to
do it
That's a heavy job, dude
Yeah, I know
Danger pay
Yeah, somebody's got to do it,
I guess
I'm sure he would like to be
known as something other than
Skobel's boss
I'm sure he actually is
I've actually known him for
quite a while
And he's a really good guy
And you really understood it
I thought, put it very well,
what the whole thing was
Basically, it's a conference,
right?
It's called BloggerCon
And the Con stands for
conference or convention
Whichever you like better
And there's no audience, there
's no speakers, there's no
panels
Which sort of forces you to
think about
Well, what is it if there's no
audience
And there's no speakers, and
there's no panels
But it's very consistent in my
mind with how blogs work
Which is that basically, it's
not hierarchical
There's no blog that's more
authoritative than any other
blog
Or at least not no formal
structure that dictates that
that should always be so
Obviously, some blogs have more
readers than others
But there's nothing in sort of
the structure of the blog is
here that makes it that way
So while at one time, I'm sure
I had more readers than Glenn
Reynolds does
I'm sure now Glenn has an order
of magnitude more readers than
I do
Or as we say, more hits than
Adam Curry has in a coffee shop
in Amsterdam
There you go, that's a good one
And that's the way it should be
, right?
I mean, it wasn't designed to
make, for the greater glory of
any person
That the idea is bigger than
any one person
And so that, and then, you know
, I also wanted to try to solve
the problem that most
conferences have
Which is that all the
interesting stuff happens out
in the hallways, you know
I wanted to make it more likely
that the interesting stuff
would happen in the room
So we said, okay, great,
basically we just want to have
discussion leaders and topics
and rooms
And basically, we'll try to
work to get the people who we
would put on a panel in the
room
But we don't give them any
special recognition
Nor do we preclude possibility
that there will be other people
in the room who may have more
to contribute than those people
Do I get a badge?
Of course you get a badge,
everybody gets a badge
That says speaker?
No, your badge does not say
speaker
No, I hear you
Your badge may say discussion
leader
You know, and the idea is that
basically you stand up in front
of the room
And you give a few minutes
worth of, you know,
introduction to the topic
And then, you know, you call on
somebody and you say, okay,
what do you think about this?
And then you call on somebody
else
Now, they don't even have to
put their hands up
In fact, you should call on
people who don't put their
hands up
So that sort of keeps everybody
sitting on the edge of their
chair
Now, will it be like the first
year?
Because I went to one of the
sessions, the first blogger con
And which was very, I think it
was Joey Ito
It was very informal
The thing that was, I had never
seen before, apparently, it's
pretty normal
Was there was a projector, had
an IRC chat up on the screen
behind him
And people were conversing
about what was going on in the
room in, you know, in like
their own chat
Is that something that happened
at the second blogger con as
well?
I don't think it happened that
much at the first one
But it's more of a decision
that Joey made that we wanted
to do
I didn't like it
It certainly, yeah, to be
truthful, I mean, but then, you
know, it's very much, I mean,
you know, after we do the prep
And we'll talk about it a few
times before
Yeah, that's good, let's use
trade secrets for that as well,
Dave, just to make sure we do
that
But I just want to get this
across, that after we've talked
about it, it's your show
I had that happen, for example,
with the second blogger con
Where, you know, one of the
things I wanted to come out of
that conference with
Was an idea of what the
relationship between blogs and
journalism was
And I had the kickoff session
be led by Jay Rosen, who's the
chairman of the Journalism
Department at NYU
And an authority on journalism,
if there ever was one
And instantaneously, as soon as
he took, you know, started up
the discussion
He started with a premise that
completely made it impossible
for my goal for the whole
conference
You know, it's like, I'm
sitting there, but nah, I didn
't say a word
And my body language, hopefully
, didn't communicate
I participated in the
discussion, and it's sort of
like a blog, you just accept
what you get
You don't know who's going to
show up in the room, you don't
know what they're going to say
You don't even know what the
discussion leader's going to do
And whether they're going to
follow
There are some very basic rules
, however, though, if they get
broken, we will stop the
session
People are not allowed to do
advertising, you know
I forget, so I'll have to
review it
Advertising is a big one,
because that's what most
conferences are
Is people talking about their
own shit that they're selling
Yeah, you've got to be really
careful about that
I mean, if you feel at some
moment that there's, you know,
a vendor in the audience
Derek, see, I do it. If there's
a vendor in the room
Right
I have to teach myself, right?
Discipline myself, right?
But if there's a vendor in the
room and you feel at this
moment
You need to have something
about their product come into
the discussion
That's your call. You can call
on them and ask them to talk
about it
Right
You know, but it's not their
choice to do it, it's your
choice
You know, so it's a... think of
yourself as a reporter
Okay, and the room is your
sources
They're the people you're
interviewing
Right, so I can pick from them
and do stuff with them
Right, and you're there in
service of the room
Right
In other words, you're trying
... and in this case, clearly
I think what we want you to
talk about is, you know, is
this what we're doing right now
Which is sort of like, how does
the, you know, blogosphere get,
you know
How would you describe what we
're doing right now?
Uh...
I don't know
That's what you're gonna have
to do, that's your homework
assignment
I know one thing, I get to drop
a Silicon Valley name on you
John Gage from Sun Once Told Me
Yeah
How was that? How cool was that
John Gage from Sun Once Told Me
?
Excuse me while I genie-fiked
He said, you know, if you gotta
stand up in front of audience
and talk about anything
Make sure you just talk about
something you know a lot about
You know, you can twist that
into any topic
Yeah, but you see, we're not
doing any of that
You're not talking here, and
there's not an audience, so
John Gage, thank you very much
I think what I'll do is, I'm
gonna bring in a boombox
I'm gonna lead off with a song
of the day
That's how I'm gonna start my
discussion
Actually, you could... there
you go
Yeah, that's what I wanna do
Basically, if you look at the
session at the big blog post
Then you're doing great, and of
course your blog posts are
audio, so you're all set
Yeah, good, so November 6th
We need November 6th, Stanford
Law School, Palo Alto,
California
Can you still come?
Where's this thing booked? What
's the...
It's pretty booked
We can probably make some room
for people
It kind of depends
My job for the next couple of
weeks now is to fill out the
grid
And then work with the
discussion leaders such as
yourself
Do we want to set up an RSS
feed with enclosures with audio
of the sessions?
Or is that too much?
Yeah, well we still haven't
quite figured out how we're
doing the audio broadcast yet
And yeah, I'm gonna need help
with that
So yeah, I better get busy, you
know
Now I've got my living things
settled here in Seattle
Now I'm pretty much... that's
what I have to do
When you go up to... well, when
you go to Palo Alto
Well, I'll be making probably
maybe three... between now and
then
To me, this is like... I've set
it up so that going to...
The Bay Area is like going to
New York when I was in Boston
It's a very easy trip, so I'll
be probably going a few times
But yeah, we need to get a
write-up
Why don't we announce your
session first?
Why don't we like...
Okay
You know...
Well, give me until Monday and
then I'll write up my session
We'll figure it out. I think I
have a write-up of the session
that you didn't do at the last
session
That was personal TV networks,
although it's changed a little
bit
I'm really wary of talking
about video at this moment
Because you see how much
confusion there is with MP3
Well, you see, there's so much
confusion with MP3s by itself
Just people understanding what
this is
When you get to video,
streaming and video on demand
and all these buzzwords pop up
Forget about that shit. We're
only interested...
MP3 is very important. We can't
give on that one
Because that gives us the
control that's what we want
It sure does
It means we can put the stuff
wherever we want to
So that's how we...
Okay, we can edit it. Let's
just see what we have
We'll go from there. Thanks for
bringing this up
I really need to get working on
this, so you can help me do
that
I'm here for Dave. Just... I'm
your personal little tickler
Thank you
Remember those? Those...
Those... was it the TSRs?
Yeah
A DOS tickler?
Yeah, those were the days
Terminate, stay ready? Was it
terminate, stay ready? Is that
it?
Yeah, that's what we should do
with Bush
Yeah, TSR and Bush
Developers, TSR and Bush
I didn't say that, actually
No, no, no, I didn't say that
I did, I did
Hey, I'm voting. I'm an
American. I can vote
Yeah, I'm an American. We like
to mis-state residents
Yeah, well, we...
He would make a... he would
make a great former president
Really
Alright, now we're getting
silly. Now we're really getting
going
Yeah, right at the last minute
Well, next time we'll... you
know, the next time we have it
to look forward to
There's no more... we won't be
far out when we start it
Yeah, we lost a lot of energy
in the first hour of dicking
around
We've got to talk about the
whole concept behind trade
secrets
We'll do all that on the next
show
And I'm really looking forward
to some feedback
So you can send it to DavidS
cripting.com
Or AdamCurry.com
Yeah, we're going to start a
blog for this
I got to go reserve a domain
name. I'm not going to say what
it is
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm going to get that all set
up right now
Yeah, okay, so I'll take care
of the audio hosting and all
that crap
Will you do the weblog?
Totally, I'm all over it
Now, let me just say that we've
been talking for an hour
A normal phone conversation
would have cost about $40
To call from Belgium to Seattle
We don't have a friends and
family plan yet together, Dave
and I
Although we have considered it
And we've recorded this
The quality, I got to listen to
it on some speakers
But I think it was outstanding
And as a broadcaster, I'm
amazed what we've just done
And the fact that within
probably an hour or so
It'll take me a little while to
upload on my cable modem
People will be able to listen
to it from Venezuela to God
knows where
To Palo Alto
Exactly, and New York City and
skyscrapers and everything
Hey listen, great show Adam
Did he crap out? Did you go?
Hello? Hello, hello, hello
Bing, bing, bing, bing
Okay, you're not going to
believe what happened
It is time to end the show
because the battery on my mic
died
So now I'm on the internal mic
Oh God, I thought you were
going to tell me we lost the
whole damn thing
Alright Adam, I'll see you on
the web, thanks very much
Goodbye everybody
Okay, and we'll talk to you
next time on trade secrets, bye
bye
[no audio]