WEBVTT

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 Hey, good afternoon, good

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 morning, or good evening,

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 depending on where you are.

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 Welcome to Trade Secrets.

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 I'm Adam Curry in Belgium at

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 the Castle.

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 Dave Weiner at 5 a.m. in

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 Seattle.

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 You're such a trooper, Dave.

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 You're such a man.

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 I hardly even get a chance to

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 open my eyes and Adam from the

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 line.

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 Hey, Dave, let's do a trade

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 secrets.

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 Yeah, well, it's so cool

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 because...

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 Alright, let's do it.

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 Let's do it.

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 You gotta do it.

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 The thing is, we talk and then

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 we jabber a little bit and then

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 we're done.

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 And then it's like, "Wanna do a

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 show?"

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 No, I got nothing left to say.

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 So I got to catch up early.

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 Yeah, I told you, you know,

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 yeah.

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 Well, it's good to do one.

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 We haven't done a trade secrets

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 since podcasting became all the

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 rage.

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 Right, which was last week.

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 Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

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 It's been amazing.

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 How was your trip?

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 You got back from San Francisco

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 yesterday?

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 Yeah, it was really an easy

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 trip.

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 I found a hotel in just the

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 perfect location.

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 It's easy into San Francisco,

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 easy down to the peninsula so I

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 can get to Palo Alto.

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 And I spent a lot of time at

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 Stanford working out the

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 details.

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 I got a whole bunch of things

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 settled for BloggerCon 3, which

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 is on, as you know, November

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 6th.

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 Yeah.

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 We found room for everybody who

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 was on the waitlist.

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 Really?

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 That's cool.

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 Yeah, it juggled a lot of

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 things.

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 Well, I kind of figured at some

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 point that when the

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 registration slowed down, that,

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 you

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 know, when they were really

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 raging, I had to put the wait

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list on because I didn't know

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 how high it was going to go.

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 And we had to leave room for

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 Stanford people because one of

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 their goals was that they be

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 participating in BloggerCon.

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 So all things put together, it

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 was said, "Okay, let's cut it

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 off at 250 because we know we

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 can do that."

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 That was a lot bigger than 250

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 to me.

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 We're officially at 421 right

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 now.

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 And that's pushing it because

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 at the same time we're 421, we

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're not that high in terms

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 of dollars.

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 And we're going to need to feed

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 people and provide them refresh

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ments and mundane stuff

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 like we have to pay Stanford to

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 clean the rooms and we have to

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 get Wi-Fi, right?

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 Yeah, we've got to get Wi-Fi.

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 And we have a live conference

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 without Wi-Fi.

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 And the webcast, which you'll

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 be very interested to know, we

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 probably talk about that

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 actually.

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 Well, we haven't talked about

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 the fact that Doug Kaye has

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 generously offered to take care

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 of most of it.

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 Well, it turns out that I don't

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 think that's the way it's

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 actually going to work.

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 Oh, well, this is news.

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 You better tell me what's

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 happening then.

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 Well, it's interesting.

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 I mean, I talked with Doug

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 before we went.

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 Basically Doug was on the

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 speakerphone at the meeting at

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 Stanford.

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 So I was there with John

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 Harrison, who is the AV guy at

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 Stanford, and Lauren Gelman,

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 who is with their institute for

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 the Internet and Society, which

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 is the Stanford counterpart

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 to Berkman Center.

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 And there, Lauren is like the

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 Stanford person who I'm working

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 with on this conference.

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 And so Doug has a stick that

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 really works.

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 Doug's IT conversations, coming

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 out the other end of Doug's

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 work is going to be like one

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 beautiful, in every regard, a

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 beautiful product, podcast,

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 audio, whatever you want to

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 call

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 it.

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 Singin' a Bob.

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 And MP3 in lots of different

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 formats, and it's going to

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 stream and whatever.

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 However, only one of his, he's

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 only going to livestream one of

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 the three concurrent sessions.

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 So that's problem number one,

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 or opportunity number one.

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 But all the sessions would be

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 recorded, right?

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 Pardon me?

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 All the sessions would be

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 recorded though.

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 All the sessions would be

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 recorded, but I don't see, you

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 know, if we can do it, I don't

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 see why not webcast all the

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 sessions too.

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 If we can do that.

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 And I want to try to do that.

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 Okay.

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 Last time we had a deal with

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 AdvanceNet with Jeff Jarvis,

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 and they had huge capacity for

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 webcasting.

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 And, you know, at the very last

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 minute we thought, okay, let's

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 ask Jeff Jarvis.

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 And Jeff said, yeah, and they

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 helped us out.

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 And we were doing, like, you

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 know, huge amounts of web

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casting through his network.

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 So that was good.

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 And they also, it was really

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 interesting, because I had been

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 trying to explain to Doug

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 about how the hobbyist side of

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 this is so important, you know,

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 that here we are, we're

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 doing podcasting.

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 And, you know, what is podcast

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ing?

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 But amateur radio, right?

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 And it's very much like blog

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ging is amateur journalism,

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 right?

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 Right on.

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 And so, but, but Doug thinks in

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 terms of professional and he

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 thinks that, that what he's

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 doing

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 is enough and some sense it is

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 enough, but it's not for me.

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 I want to get this thing wide

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 open for anybody, for any, for

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 you and for any of your podcast

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ing.

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 We're going to have a lot of AV

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 geeks there.

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 No shit.

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 Because of your podcast.

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 No shit.

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 Right.

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 And I'm going to tell them that

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, hey, you know, well Doug's

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 doing a professional job

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 and you know, therefore, blah,

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 blah, blah, you know, because

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 that's, you know, they're

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 going to go, well, Dave, what

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 happened to the blogging

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 religion here?

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 And I'm going to go, hmm, good

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 point.

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 So, and what really convinced

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 me of this was that, that the

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 Stanford people asked me about

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 that after the meeting was over

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.

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 It says, well, what about the

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 random people who want to, you

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 know, record this or whatever?

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 And I said, right on.

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 Exactly.

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 And that's the, that's where,

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 why holding these conferences

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 at universities is such

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 a good thing to do because

00:06:02.140 --> 00:06:04.240
 universities think that way.

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 They, they're not looking

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 necessarily for the maximum

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 polish.

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 And especially at a place like,

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 you know, Stanford Law School

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 and at Berkman Center.

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 It's a, you know, it's, it's,

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 it's the internet for the

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 people, basically.

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 So we're going to, we're going

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 to try to come up with

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 something where, where not only

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 does

00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:23.890
 Doug record and do his usual

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 very great job, but then it's

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 also going to be wide open.

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 There'll be a way for anybody

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 to tap into the audio out in

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 all three rooms.

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 Really?

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 They'll just have to, yeah,

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 well, that's what we want to do

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.

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 And they just have to work with

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 us in advance.

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 That's going to be the

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 requirement.

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 Okay.

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 So how do people get in touch

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 with you?

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 If they want to, if they want

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 to help out and get in touch in

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 advance?

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 I'd like them to get in touch

00:06:47.330 --> 00:06:48.040
 with you.

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 And then you tell me what your

00:06:49.110 --> 00:06:50.240
 people, then you tell me what

00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:50.600
 they need.

00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:51.600
 I need more email.

00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:52.600
 Yeah.

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 Yeah, you do.

00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.410
 I was thinking about you, right

00:06:55.410 --> 00:06:55.600
?

00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:57.840
 I think Adam is getting enough

00:06:57.840 --> 00:06:58.600
 email.

00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.670
 I don't get enough, the new

00:07:00.670 --> 00:07:02.940
 podcast, please add me to the

00:07:02.940 --> 00:07:04.600
 directory emails.

00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.130
 Adam, if you keep, if you start

00:07:06.130 --> 00:07:07.720
 whining, they're going to stop

00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:08.840
 sending it to you.

00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:10.080
 That's a little secret.

00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:11.400
 You have to say you love it.

00:07:11.400 --> 00:07:12.400
 I do.

00:07:12.400 --> 00:07:13.400
 I love it.

00:07:13.400 --> 00:07:14.400
 I love it.

00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:16.400
 I fucking love it.

00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:17.720
 Now I got four other people

00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:18.880
 already working on the

00:07:18.880 --> 00:07:20.040
 directory with me.

00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:21.880
 They're making their OPML

00:07:21.880 --> 00:07:24.080
 branches and it's working.

00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:25.240
 So I'm offloading quickly.

00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:27.840
 That's on my list totally.

00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:29.660
 I was listening to that on the

00:07:29.660 --> 00:07:31.460
 plane from San Francisco to

00:07:31.460 --> 00:07:32.920
 Seattle last night.

00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.140
 And I was so proud of you Adam

00:07:35.140 --> 00:07:38.030
 that you totally understand and

00:07:38.030 --> 00:07:40.320
 can explain the whole concept

00:07:40.320 --> 00:07:42.560
 of these included directories.

00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:44.840
 Well that's my dream.

00:07:44.840 --> 00:07:47.070
 Now that I'm actually doing it,

00:07:47.070 --> 00:07:48.900
 I understand it and it's so

00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:49.720
 simple.

00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:51.530
 It's still a little, unless you

00:07:51.530 --> 00:07:53.140
're using Radio User Land, I

00:07:53.140 --> 00:07:54.840
 haven't really come across

00:07:54.840 --> 00:07:56.820
 a tool that does it exactly

00:07:56.820 --> 00:07:59.170
 right that really exports OPML

00:07:59.170 --> 00:08:00.280
 perfectly.

00:08:00.280 --> 00:08:01.480
 That leads me right into my

00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:02.560
 next time on my list.

00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:04.610
 Oh wait, don't tell me I sagged

00:08:04.610 --> 00:08:06.400
 into something for you.

00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:07.400
 Damn.

00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:08.400
 Totally, perfectly.

00:08:08.400 --> 00:08:09.400
 It couldn't be better.

00:08:09.400 --> 00:08:10.400
 All right.

00:08:10.400 --> 00:08:11.400
 Hit me back.

00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:12.400
 It really couldn't be better.

00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:13.460
 Yeah, I was listening to your

00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:14.580
 daily source code last night as

00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:15.600
 I was staying on the plane

00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.250
 and heard you go into the story

00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:19.240
 of OPML.

00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:20.400
 But a lot of people don't know.

00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:23.850
 OPML is a very popular format

00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:26.640
 in RSS aggregators.

00:08:26.640 --> 00:08:29.320
 Because in Radio we chose to

00:08:29.320 --> 00:08:32.080
 use that as our way of listing

00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:33.760
 sets of feeds.

00:08:33.760 --> 00:08:34.880
 And Radio was pretty

00:08:34.880 --> 00:08:36.760
 influential in its early days.

00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:38.740
 So basically everybody did it

00:08:38.740 --> 00:08:39.800
 the same way.

00:08:39.800 --> 00:08:41.960
 But what people don't know is

00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.670
 that as you were so well

00:08:43.670 --> 00:08:45.720
 telling them is that OPML is

00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:47.220
 actually a very rich format

00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:48.920
 which can do more than that.

00:08:48.920 --> 00:08:50.710
 And it can do nested director

00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:52.260
ies and it can do this thing

00:08:52.260 --> 00:08:53.680
 called inclusion.

00:08:53.680 --> 00:08:55.830
 And it's also the underlying

00:08:55.830 --> 00:08:58.320
 format of the radio outliner.

00:08:58.320 --> 00:08:59.920
 And here's the deal Adam.

00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:01.920
 We open sourced that code.

00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:02.920
 Oh, okay.

00:09:02.920 --> 00:09:05.120
 That's all part of Frontier.

00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:06.120
 Uh-huh.

00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:07.740
 Yeah, Radio builds out of Front

00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:08.160
ier.

00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:09.700
 I mean that's a little secret

00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:10.400
 basically.

00:09:10.400 --> 00:09:11.400
 There's no such thing.

00:09:11.400 --> 00:09:13.240
 There's no separate code base

00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:13.920
 for Radio.

00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:15.960
 All of the C source code for

00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:18.370
 Radio was also released as open

00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:19.280
 source.

00:09:19.280 --> 00:09:20.880
 And that includes the outliner.

00:09:20.880 --> 00:09:22.920
 It includes all the OPML code.

00:09:22.920 --> 00:09:25.810
 It includes a complete TCP

00:09:25.810 --> 00:09:28.560
 stack including HTTP.

00:09:28.560 --> 00:09:30.650
 So that moving these outlines

00:09:30.650 --> 00:09:32.730
 around is something that and

00:09:32.730 --> 00:09:34.840
 providing a user interface for

00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:35.520
 editing

00:09:35.520 --> 00:09:38.410
 them is something that Radio

00:09:38.410 --> 00:09:41.530
 does so natively that it's hard

00:09:41.530 --> 00:09:44.000
 to stop it from doing it

00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:44.920
 basically.

00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:47.920
 So the same kind of thing could

00:09:47.920 --> 00:09:50.920
 be done with that that was done

00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:53.080
 with the iPodder.

00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.500
 We could get a project going to

00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:57.810
 create the easiest to use out

00:09:57.810 --> 00:09:59.760
liner out of the code base

00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:01.280
 that's there.

00:10:01.280 --> 00:10:03.280
 And it would be Windows and Mac

00:10:03.280 --> 00:10:05.190
 and could of course be ported

00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:07.000
 to any platform including

00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.960
 Linux.

00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:11.960
 And we would have the bootstrap

00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:13.810
 for something that will be so

00:10:13.810 --> 00:10:15.800
 incredible when it actually

00:10:15.800 --> 00:10:16.800
 works.

00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:18.740
 In other words, this can go in

00:10:18.740 --> 00:10:20.860
 so far beyond, I mean I don't

00:10:20.860 --> 00:10:23.160
 want to say because podcasting

00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:25.520
 is so incredible, but it can go

00:10:25.520 --> 00:10:27.700
 beyond podcasting and into a

00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:29.890
 whole sort of knowledge tree

00:10:29.890 --> 00:10:30.280
 for

00:10:30.280 --> 00:10:31.280
 the universe.

00:10:31.280 --> 00:10:33.020
 Well, it's really exciting

00:10:33.020 --> 00:10:34.490
 because when you start a

00:10:34.490 --> 00:10:36.680
 directory and I've started many

00:10:36.680 --> 00:10:37.360
 directories

00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.210
 and then people send you links,

00:10:40.210 --> 00:10:42.160
 it becomes a real drag to

00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:43.560
 maintain it.

00:10:43.560 --> 00:10:45.310
 If people send you an addition

00:10:45.310 --> 00:10:47.030
 and it's not up in the same day

00:10:47.030 --> 00:10:48.560
, people get bored, then

00:10:48.560 --> 00:10:49.720
 it's just not alive.

00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:51.920
 And by this delegation which is

00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:54.290
 also decentralization and gives

00:10:54.290 --> 00:10:55.900
 no one any real power,

00:10:55.900 --> 00:10:56.760
 certainly

00:10:56.760 --> 00:10:58.950
 not any centralized power, but

00:10:58.950 --> 00:11:01.240
 only over whatever tree they're

00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:03.520
 working on, just the offload

00:11:03.520 --> 00:11:04.380
 and you can see the

00:11:04.380 --> 00:11:05.960
 possibilities immediately.

00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:07.650
 Immediately you say, "Oh, well

00:11:07.650 --> 00:11:09.210
 duh, of course this is how this

00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:10.480
 is supposed to work."

00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:12.290
 I mean it's so simple, it

00:11:12.290 --> 00:11:13.320
 really is.

00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:15.520
 Well, it's the outline

00:11:15.520 --> 00:11:17.720
 equivalent of a link and

00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:20.470
 outlines, that's all we do is

00:11:20.470 --> 00:11:21.360
 follow the

00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.330
 grain of the outline and say, "

00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:24.750
Okay, what would a link look

00:11:24.750 --> 00:11:26.040
 like in this space?"

00:11:26.040 --> 00:11:27.470
 If you go back to the outline

00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:29.080
 as we did in the 80s, this

00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:30.600
 would be the equivalent of what

00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.230
 we call cloning so that an item

00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:35.900
 and all of its descendants can

00:11:35.900 --> 00:11:38.120
 appear in as many places

00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:39.120
 as you want to.

00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:40.770
 They also call them file ali

00:11:40.770 --> 00:11:42.460
ases in the Macintosh and they

00:11:42.460 --> 00:11:44.380
 call them shortcuts and windows

00:11:44.380 --> 00:11:44.680
.

00:11:44.680 --> 00:11:46.480
 So it's the concept of a

00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:47.480
 pointer.

00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:49.340
 It's a computer science thing

00:11:49.340 --> 00:11:51.290
 that they always seem to have

00:11:51.290 --> 00:11:53.120
 mystical powers when you use

00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.600
 them and this is no exception.

00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:56.200
 Is that like a sin link as well

00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:56.720
?

00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:57.720
 Pardon me?

00:11:57.720 --> 00:11:59.720
 Is that like a sin link?

00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.060
 I don't know what a sin link is

00:12:02.060 --> 00:12:02.360
.

00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:05.090
 Oh, okay, that's in Unix where

00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:07.950
 you can say, "Okay, this file

00:12:07.950 --> 00:12:10.920
 path, it's a symbolic link.

00:12:10.920 --> 00:12:12.460
 It's not real, but if you point

00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:13.690
 to it, it'll take you to the

00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:14.560
 real file."

00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:15.560
 Is that the same thing?

00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:17.180
 Yeah, that sounds totally like

00:12:17.180 --> 00:12:17.440
 it.

00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:18.680
 Okay, got it.

00:12:18.680 --> 00:12:21.550
 Yeah, you see them everywhere

00:12:21.550 --> 00:12:23.980
 in the user talk scripting

00:12:23.980 --> 00:12:25.280
 language.

00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:26.700
 It's the address symbol

00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:27.600
 generator.

00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.160
 So pointers are like major big

00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:30.550
 deal, but having them in an

00:12:30.550 --> 00:12:32.450
 interactive product like an out

00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:32.920
liner

00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.700
 where the outliner then can try

00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:36.190
 expanding one of these things

00:12:36.190 --> 00:12:37.360
 when you open it up in

00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:38.360
 your outliner.

00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:39.360
 Yeah, it's cool.

00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:40.340
 Try expanding one of your links

00:12:40.340 --> 00:12:41.160
 and see what happens.

00:12:41.160 --> 00:12:42.580
 Yeah, it's like the outliner

00:12:42.580 --> 00:12:43.360
 continues.

00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.360
 Yeah, it just keeps going.

00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:46.560
 You can go on as many levels

00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:47.480
 deep as you want.

00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:49.240
 Now here's something else that

00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:50.990
 people might not know is that,

00:12:50.990 --> 00:12:53.080
 "Okay, Adam, you can include

00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.510
 their OPML in your directory

00:12:55.510 --> 00:12:57.550
 and that will have the effect

00:12:57.550 --> 00:13:00.000
 of including their directory

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.300
 in yours, but they can also

00:13:02.300 --> 00:13:04.370
 include your directory in

00:13:04.370 --> 00:13:05.320
 theirs."

00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:06.320
 Right.

00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:07.820
 So that if they think they have

00:13:07.820 --> 00:13:09.320
, you know, this is where the

00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.000
 ego starts coming in, right?

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:12.290
 And so people go, "Well, geez,

00:13:12.290 --> 00:13:13.580
 I'm not going to be subordinate

00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:14.040
 to Adam.

00:13:14.040 --> 00:13:15.460
 You know, every bit as good as

00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:16.810
 Adam and unfortunately or

00:13:16.810 --> 00:13:18.460
 fortunately or whatever, that

00:13:18.460 --> 00:13:18.880
 happens a

00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:20.560
 lot in the computer business."

00:13:20.560 --> 00:13:21.560
 That's also true.

00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:23.470
 Yeah, well, it's true, but

00:13:23.470 --> 00:13:25.460
 sometimes spalling your pride

00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:27.440
 is a good thing to do so that

00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.440
 it's

00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:29.600
 for the greater good.

00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:31.270
 But okay, so even if that isn't

00:13:31.270 --> 00:13:32.840
 going to happen, then what can

00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:34.360
 happen is if you've got the

00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:36.520
 master directory for the pod

00:13:36.520 --> 00:13:39.290
 space, then include, they can

00:13:39.290 --> 00:13:40.960
 include your directory in

00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.190
 theirs because you have an OPML

00:13:43.190 --> 00:13:44.800
 rendition of yours.

00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:46.220
 And when they do that, when

00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:47.720
 they do that, they will also be

00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:49.120
 including everything that

00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:50.600
 you included.

00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:52.770
 So there's nobody, it's just

00:13:52.770 --> 00:13:54.960
 like saying nobody has the top

00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:57.360
 homepage on the web, right?

00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:58.890
 Nobody has the top homepage

00:13:58.890 --> 00:14:00.600
 directory and this is a major,

00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.200
 major thing because if this

00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.500
 thing really catches on, then

00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:07.140
 we can get directories on every

00:14:07.140 --> 00:14:09.440
 subject and we can also get two

00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:10.690
 or three directories on every

00:14:10.690 --> 00:14:11.200
 subject.

00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:12.820
 Yeah, it's amazing this really

00:14:12.820 --> 00:14:14.380
 hasn't happened for web logs,

00:14:14.380 --> 00:14:15.920
 you know, that people who have

00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:19.520
 web logs should have director

00:14:19.520 --> 00:14:20.240
ies.

00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:21.620
 You know what, it was the order

00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:22.700
 in which things happened

00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:24.100
 actually was what made it not

00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:24.560
 happen

00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:27.670
 for web logs because before we

00:14:27.670 --> 00:14:31.090
 had any idea, this idea post-st

00:14:31.090 --> 00:14:34.080
ates web logs, this outline

00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.910
 directory stuff came after web

00:14:35.910 --> 00:14:36.440
 logs.

00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:37.440
 Right.

00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:38.760
 And then at the time it came

00:14:38.760 --> 00:14:40.440
 online, there were already tens

00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:41.760
 of thousands of blogs and

00:14:41.760 --> 00:14:43.730
 so people had learned to accept

00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:45.630
 complete chaos, okay, then

00:14:45.630 --> 00:14:47.660
 Google had come along and had

00:14:47.660 --> 00:14:47.720
 been

00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:48.980
 doing a pretty good job of

00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:49.880
 indexing them.

00:14:49.880 --> 00:14:51.550
 And there were directories like

00:14:51.550 --> 00:14:52.650
 Yahoo and Google has a

00:14:52.650 --> 00:14:54.060
 directory and all kinds of

00:14:54.060 --> 00:14:54.800
 directories

00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:55.800
 with them.

00:14:55.800 --> 00:14:56.380
 I presume lots of paid

00:14:56.380 --> 00:14:56.800
 employees.

00:14:56.800 --> 00:14:57.800
 Yeah, and lots of politics.

00:14:57.800 --> 00:14:58.800
 And politics, yeah.

00:14:58.800 --> 00:15:03.640
 Yeah, lots of politics in there

00:15:03.640 --> 00:15:03.760
.

00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:05.840
 But what was I going to say?

00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.450
 Yeah, it could go a lot further

00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:09.140
 than simply just for podcasting

00:15:09.140 --> 00:15:11.640
, it could be for everything.

00:15:11.640 --> 00:15:13.580
 Because you have three versions

00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:13.680
.

00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:15.300
 You being the daddy of the

00:15:15.300 --> 00:15:17.080
 outline, I heard you say it

00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:18.940
 about ten minutes ago, this

00:15:18.940 --> 00:15:19.400
 must

00:15:19.400 --> 00:15:21.800
 be like the ultimate dream to

00:15:21.800 --> 00:15:24.500
 have one big outline traversing

00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:26.520
 the entire universe.

00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:27.520
 Yeah.

00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:28.840
 Well, we called it the world

00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:29.440
 outline.

00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.090
 I mean that was when we first

00:15:31.090 --> 00:15:33.160
 put all this together, right?

00:15:33.160 --> 00:15:34.290
 It was like the worldwide web

00:15:34.290 --> 00:15:35.230
 and then there's a world

00:15:35.230 --> 00:15:35.760
 outline.

00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:37.240
 So in a sense there's one

00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:38.670
 outline but there are an

00:15:38.670 --> 00:15:40.160
 infinite number of ways of

00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:40.760
 picking

00:15:40.760 --> 00:15:41.760
 it up.

00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:43.920
 And yeah, you know, to talk

00:15:43.920 --> 00:15:46.260
 about Frontier being my life's

00:15:46.260 --> 00:15:48.400
 work, that's actually not

00:15:48.400 --> 00:15:49.400
 true.

00:15:49.400 --> 00:15:51.020
 If this thing happens, then I'm

00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:52.560
 going to hang them up, boy.

00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:54.370
 I haven't got another idea in

00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:55.640
 me like this one.

00:15:55.640 --> 00:15:58.220
 Well, it's funny because if you

00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:00.550
 look at podcasting, which of

00:16:00.550 --> 00:16:02.570
 course is built on RSS, which

00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:02.840
 is

00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.810
 at least a corner of your life

00:16:05.810 --> 00:16:09.280
's work and what's happening

00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:12.280
 with the directory now, it

00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:13.750
 seems like it's exploding and I

00:16:13.750 --> 00:16:15.300
'm just sitting here waiting and

00:16:15.300 --> 00:16:16.600
 I've even seen people write

00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:17.600
 about it.

00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:19.070
 Okay, the hype will be over in

00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:20.550
 three weeks and I'm just going

00:16:20.550 --> 00:16:22.080
 by bandwidth consumption.

00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.690
 Let's just make that an easy

00:16:25.690 --> 00:16:26.680
 one.

00:16:26.680 --> 00:16:28.000
 I know what you're going to say

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:28.200
.

00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:29.940
 So I'll just tell you how much

00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:31.600
 I'm pushing out per day.

00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.740
 It is now up to 37 gigabits a

00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:36.800
 day and I'm still doing the

00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:39.080
 same amount of shows.

00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.350
 So of course you're supposed to

00:16:41.350 --> 00:16:44.120
 say, "Hey, we need BitTorrent."

00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.000
 I hope Stu's right.

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.960
 You can catch my gear.

00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.240
 Hey, Dave, I got some listener

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:52.560
 feedback here.

00:16:52.560 --> 00:16:54.080
 A message for you actually.

00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:55.080
 Oh yeah?

00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:56.080
 Yeah, hold on.

00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:57.080
 I'll play it for you.

00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:58.080
 Okay.

00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.080
 Hi Dave.

00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.430
 This is Aldo Costaneda from Med

00:17:02.430 --> 00:17:05.770
field, Massachusetts and I'm

00:17:05.770 --> 00:17:09.010
 sending this because I wanted

00:17:09.010 --> 00:17:09.600
 to reply

00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:11.120
 in a way to Dave Weiner's

00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:12.970
 comments that you had on your

00:17:12.970 --> 00:17:15.000
 show the other day about a link

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.680
 being one of the fundamental

00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.080
 components of the web.

00:17:20.080 --> 00:17:21.060
 It got me thinking and I guess

00:17:21.060 --> 00:17:22.080
 I've been thinking about this

00:17:22.080 --> 00:17:22.520
 before.

00:17:22.520 --> 00:17:24.780
 I heard that really one of the

00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:26.120
 kind of defining

00:17:26.120 --> 00:17:28.800
 characteristics that perhaps we

00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:29.840
 don't think

00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:30.840
 about.

00:17:30.840 --> 00:17:31.780
 Perhaps this is something that

00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:32.720
 the community out there that's

00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:33.720
 particularly the open source

00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.980
 community thinks about a lot,

00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:38.150
 but is that the web provides an

00:17:38.150 --> 00:17:40.480
 incredibly efficient way

00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:43.390
 to measure ideas, to measure

00:17:43.390 --> 00:17:46.180
 the value of ideas very early

00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:49.200
 before without requiring huge

00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.680
 capital investment.

00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.560
 I think this notion really, if

00:17:53.560 --> 00:17:55.520
 it hasn't been discussed much,

00:17:55.520 --> 00:17:57.240
 is one that's really worthy

00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:58.930
 of focus and discussion because

00:17:58.930 --> 00:17:59.860
 I think it has huge

00:17:59.860 --> 00:18:01.550
 implications particularly for

00:18:01.550 --> 00:18:01.920
 those

00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.160
 people that are developing just

00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.040
 for the love of it, the iPod

00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:08.280
 community in essence, in that

00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:10.890
 if the community can harness

00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:13.190
 the value of an idea or can

00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:15.760
 measure the value of an idea

00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:17.880
 really early on and can measure

00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.930
 that throughout the life of an

00:18:19.930 --> 00:18:22.000
 idea, then I think that that

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:23.490
 can give those people that

00:18:23.490 --> 00:18:25.100
 devote themselves to it a lot

00:18:25.100 --> 00:18:26.880
 of freedom in terms of finding

00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:28.380
 interesting ways to get

00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:30.260
 financing basically, to get

00:18:30.260 --> 00:18:32.050
 paid for what they do without

00:18:32.050 --> 00:18:32.480
 at the

00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:34.770
 same time having to give up the

00:18:34.770 --> 00:18:37.120
 freedom in which they do it.

00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:39.580
 They don't have to work for a

00:18:39.580 --> 00:18:41.160
 corporation.

00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.160
 Things like that.

00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:43.680
 That's the core concept.

00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:45.070
 I guess what I want to do is

00:18:45.070 --> 00:18:46.790
 put that concept forward and

00:18:46.790 --> 00:18:48.170
 see if there's interest in

00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:48.680
 really

00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.310
 trying to understand it or to

00:18:50.310 --> 00:18:51.640
 find out if it's already

00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:53.560
 something that's been thought

00:18:53.560 --> 00:18:56.600
 about and dismissed and just

00:18:56.600 --> 00:18:58.680
 put it out there.

00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.820
 My email address is AldoALDO@

00:18:59.820 --> 00:19:00.680
theworld.com.

00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:01.940
 If this ever gets out to your

00:19:01.940 --> 00:19:03.080
 community and there's an

00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:04.600
 interest in researching it more

00:19:04.600 --> 00:19:04.680
,

00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:05.720
 it's something that I'd

00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:06.770
 actually really like to

00:19:06.770 --> 00:19:08.130
 dedicate some time to research

00:19:08.130 --> 00:19:08.600
 because

00:19:08.600 --> 00:19:10.790
 I think it could have really

00:19:10.790 --> 00:19:13.200
 fundamental impact on the way

00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.130
 we view open source and

00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:15.600
 distributed

00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:17.000
 development and all those

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:17.600
 things.

00:19:17.600 --> 00:19:18.760
 Thanks a lot.

00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:19.760
 Could you hear that, Dave?

00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:22.160
 Yeah, I heard the whole thing.

00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.590
 I think that I think it's right

00:19:25.590 --> 00:19:26.000
.

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.920
 I'm not sure that it can

00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.800
 generate financing, but there's

00:19:30.800 --> 00:19:33.320
 a reason why the web attracted

00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:34.320
 all the hippies.

00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:39.470
 As he's lighting up one guy at

00:19:39.470 --> 00:19:44.620
 a time, this is what we don't

00:19:44.620 --> 00:19:49.000
 talk about, but let's talk

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.440
 about it anyway.

00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:55.100
 Engadget was reviewing trade

00:19:55.100 --> 00:19:56.600
 secrets.

00:19:56.600 --> 00:19:59.960
 I thought they're doing a great

00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:02.490
 job and support what they're

00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:03.480
 doing.

00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.480
 I'm a big fan of Engadget.

00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:07.120
 They said that basically this

00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:08.420
 is the best form of radio

00:20:08.420 --> 00:20:10.080
 because Adam's always doing

00:20:10.080 --> 00:20:12.080
 bomb hits on the radio.

00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:14.960
 So are you, I heard.

00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:16.470
 They kind of said, "I'm doing

00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:17.910
 it too, but I want to get that

00:20:17.910 --> 00:20:18.880
 really clear.

00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:19.880
 I'm not."

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:20.880
 You wish.

00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.700
 When I live in a country where

00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:24.240
 you go to jail for that shit,

00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.760
 the next thing I don't want

00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:27.340
 to hear is the DEA knocking

00:20:27.340 --> 00:20:29.260
 down my door going, "Dave, what

00:20:29.260 --> 00:20:30.360
 are you doing?"

00:20:30.360 --> 00:20:31.840
 Dave's not here, man.

00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:33.360
 Dave's not here.

00:20:33.360 --> 00:20:36.230
 Anyway, to go back with what

00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:37.840
 was his name?

00:20:37.840 --> 00:20:38.840
 Aldo.

00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:39.840
 Castaneda.

00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:40.840
 Aldo Castaneda.

00:20:40.840 --> 00:20:41.840
 Yeah.

00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:43.620
 I mean, the web was about dis

00:20:43.620 --> 00:20:45.650
intermediation or the internet

00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:47.680
 is about disintermediation,

00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.060
 which means getting rid of the

00:20:52.060 --> 00:20:55.080
 intermediaries.

00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:56.260
 Not that we didn't need

00:20:56.260 --> 00:20:58.120
 intermediaries because we did.

00:20:58.120 --> 00:21:00.370
 In the era of centralization,

00:21:00.370 --> 00:21:02.570
 it was all about intermediaries

00:21:02.570 --> 00:21:02.880
.

00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.210
 The big TV networks and radio

00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:07.720
 networks.

00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:08.600
 Where do you get your news from

00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:08.720
?

00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.840
 The big airlines.

00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:12.460
 Everything had to be big in

00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:14.560
 order for everybody to have it.

00:21:14.560 --> 00:21:15.520
 The internet says the

00:21:15.520 --> 00:21:16.880
 information doesn't have to be

00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:17.520
 like that.

00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:19.170
 I don't have to be big in order

00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:20.390
 for anybody to have the

00:21:20.390 --> 00:21:22.280
 information that I produce.

00:21:22.280 --> 00:21:23.890
 So as a result, for the first

00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:25.990
 10 years, which is really about

00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:27.640
 where we're at now, first

00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.880
 10 years of the web, we were

00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.760
 focusing on text because the

00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:36.680
 pipes were pretty narrow.

00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:38.380
 And then the tools, the content

00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:40.210
 development tools, the editing

00:21:40.210 --> 00:21:41.680
 tools, all the stuff that

00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.630
 we're using now, while it isn't

00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:45.840
 new, it got really affordable.

00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:47.600
 I tell people this all the time

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:48.280
, Dave.

00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:51.920
 I invented the $40,000 website.

00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:52.920
 That was peanuts.

00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:53.920
 Yeah.

00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:54.920
 Why?

00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:55.920
 Because it was people power.

00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.590
 People were doing it by hand

00:21:57.590 --> 00:21:59.330
 and writing it in Notepad and

00:21:59.330 --> 00:21:59.800
 VI.

00:21:59.800 --> 00:22:02.640
 Now the $40 tool literally can

00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.160
 do the same, if not better.

00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:06.320
 Right.

00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:08.670
 And so money now is, while it

00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:10.950
 is still an object, it's less

00:22:10.950 --> 00:22:12.240
 of an object.

00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:13.840
 And that means that we can now

00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:14.880
 try to do radio.

00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.100
 And Adam, we've been waiting,

00:22:17.100 --> 00:22:19.240
 trying to get this to bootstrap

00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:19.600
.

00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:21.530
 I did a project last year with

00:22:21.530 --> 00:22:23.750
 Chris Leiden, who was one of my

00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:25.880
 colleagues at Berkman Center.

00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:27.400
 And Chris did a series of

00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.400
 interviews with bloggers and

00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:30.400
 luminaries.

00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:32.320
 There's great stuff.

00:22:32.320 --> 00:22:34.650
 And we produced an RSS 2.0 feed

00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:36.000
 with enclosures.

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.250
 And some people listen to it,

00:22:38.250 --> 00:22:40.590
 but it wasn't like daily source

00:22:40.590 --> 00:22:41.240
 code.

00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.210
 And it didn't take off like

00:22:43.210 --> 00:22:45.560
 Dave Schlescher's stuff or any

00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:47.900
 of the things that we're seeing

00:22:47.900 --> 00:22:48.200
.

00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:49.290
 It may be that it wasn't a

00:22:49.290 --> 00:22:50.680
 critical master, or maybe the

00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:51.720
 time wasn't right.

00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.720
 No, it didn't.

00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:53.720
 There was no iPodder.

00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:54.720
 There was no iPodder.

00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:56.100
 And I think Chris Leiden could

00:22:56.100 --> 00:22:57.660
 do a great job now if he would

00:22:57.660 --> 00:22:58.680
 continue to release stuff

00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.160
 on his RSS feed.

00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:01.760
 I think that's the only thing

00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:03.560
 that didn't happen, Dave.

00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:04.560
 Is that right?

00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:05.840
 I think it was more than that.

00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:07.230
 I think the iPodder was

00:23:07.230 --> 00:23:09.140
 instrumental, but I think you

00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:11.080
 doing one every day made a very

00:23:11.080 --> 00:23:12.080
 big difference.

00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:13.080
 Are you there?

00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:15.080
 Yeah, hold on.

00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:16.640
 My battery just died.

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:17.580
 Talk amongst yourselves for a

00:23:17.580 --> 00:23:17.960
 second.

00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:18.960
 I just got to--

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:19.960
 Hold on a second.

00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:20.960
 Let me grab my mic.

00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:21.960
 I want to move.

00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:22.960
 I got it.

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:23.960
 I got it.

00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:25.900
 Yeah, I should have replaced it

00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:27.470
 before I-- Okay, maybe I should

00:23:27.470 --> 00:23:28.280
 play some music while

00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:30.520
 Adam is out farting around.

00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:31.880
 I happen to have something-- I

00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:33.230
 think I have something queued

00:23:33.230 --> 00:23:33.800
 up here.

00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:35.780
 This one podcasting is all

00:23:35.780 --> 00:23:36.520
 about.

00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:37.650
 Don't tell Adam that I did this

00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:37.840
.

00:23:37.840 --> 00:23:39.360
 What did you do?

00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:40.360
 I did it.

00:23:40.360 --> 00:23:41.360
 Don't tell Adam.

00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:42.360
 I never got it.

00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:43.360
 I'm not--

00:23:43.360 --> 00:24:03.600
 I just become my favorite song.

00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:06.480
 I love that one so much.

00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.480
 Are you back?

00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:11.920
 I think Adam may have turned

00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:14.880
 this thing off.

00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:15.880
 Anyone there?

00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:16.880
 No, hold on.

00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:17.880
 I'm here.

00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:18.880
 I'm here.

00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:19.880
 Were we recording?

00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:20.880
 Yeah, it was funny.

00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:23.130
 I thought you must have turned

00:24:23.130 --> 00:24:23.880
 us off.

00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:24.880
 Hold on.

00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.530
 I just got to replace the

00:24:27.530 --> 00:24:30.880
 battery in my transmitter.

00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:35.720
 Hold on.

00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:36.720
 How cool was that?

00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:38.150
 I just got to hold on while he

00:24:38.150 --> 00:24:39.340
 used the battery in his

00:24:39.340 --> 00:24:40.320
 transmitter.

00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:41.320
 I'm back.

00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:42.850
 Yeah, Doug Kay is going to

00:24:42.850 --> 00:24:44.580
 interview me at 4 o'clock my

00:24:44.580 --> 00:24:46.040
 time, so I had bought new

00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:46.720
 batteries.

00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:48.280
 Well, ask him not to listen to

00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:49.720
 trade secrets anymore.

00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:50.720
 Oh, shit.

00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:54.720
 Just hit my head on the lamp.

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:55.720
 All right.

00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:56.720
 Now, wait a minute.

00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:57.720
 Oops.

00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:58.720
 I was going to say-- Oh, no.

00:24:58.720 --> 00:24:59.450
 I was-- You know what happened,

00:24:59.450 --> 00:24:59.720
 Dave?

00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:01.160
 This morning, I was up early

00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:02.680
 because I was interviewed by

00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:03.920
 the Australian Broadcast

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:04.720
 Corporation.

00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:05.720
 Or is it company?

00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:06.570
 You're such a media whore, Adam

00:25:06.570 --> 00:25:06.720
.

00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:07.720
 How do you do that, Adam?

00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:08.720
 I am.

00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:10.250
 I'm bending over and saying,

00:25:10.250 --> 00:25:11.720
 come on, are you Aussie?

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:17.120
 I pot me here, baby.

00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:19.310
 So I was looking over the iPot

00:25:19.310 --> 00:25:20.840
ter.org site.

00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:23.000
 I did something really cool.

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.020
 I actually rewrote history.

00:25:25.020 --> 00:25:26.800
 There's a section there that is

00:25:26.800 --> 00:25:28.360
 called the History Page.

00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:30.540
 And it was kind of like just a

00:25:30.540 --> 00:25:33.040
 running ramble of thoughts.

00:25:33.040 --> 00:25:35.220
 And I've been telling the story

00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:37.160
 so often for the past week in

00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.120
 interviews that I decided,

00:25:39.120 --> 00:25:40.280
 let me just write down that

00:25:40.280 --> 00:25:41.880
 story because that's the story.

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.270
 And I could embellish a little

00:25:43.270 --> 00:25:43.880
 bit more.

00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:44.980
 But you should look at it

00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:45.980
 because I went back and I

00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:47.040
 traced the web logs.

00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:49.080
 I traced the web log postings.

00:25:49.080 --> 00:25:50.610
 I traced everything that

00:25:50.610 --> 00:25:51.440
 happened.

00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:53.040
 And it was-- And I actually--

00:25:53.040 --> 00:25:54.240
 And I wrote about this.

00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:55.780
 I said, there's a couple things

00:25:55.780 --> 00:25:56.970
 I did because I knew that I

00:25:56.970 --> 00:25:58.640
 really wanted this thing, this

00:25:58.640 --> 00:25:59.640
 iPotter.

00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:01.780
 And I wasn't doing daily source

00:26:01.780 --> 00:26:03.680
 code until I built iPotter.

00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:05.580
 And in fact, the name daily

00:26:05.580 --> 00:26:07.440
 source code at the time was

00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:08.760
 chosen specifically to appeal

00:26:08.760 --> 00:26:11.440
 to developers.

00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:13.760
 That makes sense, right?

00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:16.370
 And so I released the iPotter

00:26:16.370 --> 00:26:17.240
 script.

00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:18.440
 And then I actually blogged

00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:18.840
 this.

00:26:18.840 --> 00:26:20.290
 I said, hey, I'm just going to

00:26:20.290 --> 00:26:21.800
 produce this every single day

00:26:21.800 --> 00:26:23.000
 so you all have something--

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:25.460
 y'all-- so y'all have something

00:26:25.460 --> 00:26:26.440
 to work with.

00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:27.420
 They talk like that in the

00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:28.160
 Netherlands.

00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:29.140
 They try-- No, that's how

00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:29.920
 developers talk.

00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:31.280
 They all talk y'all.

00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:32.280
 Y'all.

00:26:32.280 --> 00:26:35.700
 So that's how it happened, Dave

00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:36.120
.

00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:37.940
 And that was the difference,

00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:38.600
 really.

00:26:38.600 --> 00:26:39.840
 I mean, that's what it was.

00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:41.490
 It was just the people who

00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:43.160
 looked at the script and said,

00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:44.960
 oh, that's interesting.

00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.840
 I can do that better.

00:26:46.840 --> 00:26:48.960
 That's what it was.

00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.540
 And I-- I'll put a link to that

00:26:50.540 --> 00:26:50.680
.

00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:53.480
 Yeah, did you see the history

00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:54.320
 page?

00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:55.560
 I do.

00:26:55.560 --> 00:26:58.390
 I think I represented your

00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:01.780
 contributions correctly, if not

00:27:01.780 --> 00:27:02.440
 let me know.

00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.060
 Yeah, I'm literally trying to

00:27:04.060 --> 00:27:05.810
 take the backseat here because,

00:27:05.810 --> 00:27:07.200
 you know, it's-- you're doing

00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:08.250
-- I mean, I don't want to

00:27:08.250 --> 00:27:09.610
 stroke you too much, but you're

00:27:09.610 --> 00:27:11.200
 doing such a good job here.

00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.320
 And every technology, it would

00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:15.300
 be good to have somebody who's

00:27:15.300 --> 00:27:17.040
 sort of like, you know,

00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:18.760
 doing the art of it, the

00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:19.680
 content.

00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:20.950
 And then somebody else who's

00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:22.260
 sort of thinking about, OK,

00:27:22.260 --> 00:27:23.630
 well, what's the next step in

00:27:23.630 --> 00:27:23.680
 the

00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:24.680
 infrastructure?

00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:25.680
 That's why we're a great team.

00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:26.690
 And that's why we're-- that's

00:27:26.690 --> 00:27:27.280
 why we're good.

00:27:27.280 --> 00:27:28.280
 Yeah, no.

00:27:28.280 --> 00:27:29.280
 We're good.

00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:31.800
 We're ugly, but we're good.

00:27:31.800 --> 00:27:32.800
 We're good.

00:27:32.800 --> 00:27:34.440
 We should wear buttons to say

00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:34.800
 that.

00:27:34.800 --> 00:27:36.550
 We should have buttons to say,

00:27:36.550 --> 00:27:37.440
 we're good.

00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.400
 And BloggerCon, we should hand

00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:40.240
 them out to--

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:41.240
 Hi, we're good.

00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:42.240
 I'm a blogger.

00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.240
 I'm good.

00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:44.240
 You can go love that.

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.750
 No, I'm a pod-- actually, Doug

00:27:47.750 --> 00:27:51.040
 Kay had a really cool thing.

00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:53.020
 He was trying to figure out the

00:27:53.020 --> 00:27:54.880
 verbiage of podcasting.

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:55.880
 Oh, man.

00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:56.880
 Please.

00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:58.740
 And so he asked the question,

00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:00.690
 well, what-- OK, podcasting

00:28:00.690 --> 00:28:02.640
 must be the creation of this,

00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:03.640
 right?

00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:05.120
 What we're doing right now, or

00:28:05.120 --> 00:28:06.370
 we're getting ready to do a

00:28:06.370 --> 00:28:07.960
 podcast, because the podcast

00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:09.220
 is when you wind up and you

00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:10.320
 throw it, right?

00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:12.160
 Yeah, you get this, the pod

00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:12.760
 pull.

00:28:12.760 --> 00:28:13.760
 We're pod pulling.

00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:14.760
 Right.

00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:15.750
 And so just what he came-- yeah

00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:16.160
, right.

00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:17.160
 Thanks.

00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:18.440
 I'm going to go there with-- so

00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:20.570
 he said, then what is listening

00:28:20.570 --> 00:28:20.840
?

00:28:20.840 --> 00:28:23.080
 He's listening also podcasting?

00:28:23.080 --> 00:28:24.080
 Or is it pod catching?

00:28:24.080 --> 00:28:25.080
 No.

00:28:25.080 --> 00:28:27.400
 It's a pod catching, exactly.

00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.360
 And so-- and the funny thing

00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:31.000
 was is that I had bought that.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:31.860
 You had bought that domain name

00:28:31.860 --> 00:28:32.000
.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.000
 It's pod catch.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000
 Yeah, I remember that.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.410
 Pod catch, and then I still

00:28:35.410 --> 00:28:36.000
 have it.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.600
 I have an interesting one.

00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:38.600
 So--

00:28:38.600 --> 00:28:40.190
 Hey, I have a really, really

00:28:40.190 --> 00:28:40.880
 good one.

00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:42.590
 We could always use-- I kept

00:28:42.590 --> 00:28:44.290
 this domain for many, many

00:28:44.290 --> 00:28:44.960
 years.

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.480
 It's clambumping.org.

00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:50.140
 It's not that the fuck does

00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:51.360
 that mean?

00:28:51.360 --> 00:28:52.360
 Never mind.

00:28:52.360 --> 00:28:53.360
 Clambumping.

00:28:53.360 --> 00:28:55.420
 So somebody asked me-- you must

00:28:55.420 --> 00:28:57.360
 have got this interview, too.

00:28:57.360 --> 00:28:58.360
 I bet you did.

00:28:58.360 --> 00:28:59.360
 Which one?

00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:01.160
 Somebody asked me yesterday.

00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:04.160
 Eric at-- oh god, OJR.

00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.760
 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:06.760 --> 00:29:07.760
 Written in--

00:29:07.760 --> 00:29:08.760
 In an interview.

00:29:08.760 --> 00:29:11.000
 No, I actually do those voice.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:12.000
 I never do written interviews.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.280
 Oh, he sent me a whole bunch of

00:29:13.280 --> 00:29:13.960
 questions.

00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:15.320
 That was the only written one I

00:29:15.320 --> 00:29:16.280
 did, I figured.

00:29:16.280 --> 00:29:17.280
 And that's actually based on

00:29:17.280 --> 00:29:17.600
 that.

00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:18.900
 Should be like a bunch of

00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:19.600
 holiday.

00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:20.600
 What?

00:29:20.600 --> 00:29:21.920
 That's a bussiness holiday.

00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:23.140
 I write all day anyway, so I

00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:24.030
 figured if I'm going to do an

00:29:24.030 --> 00:29:24.360
 interview--

00:29:24.360 --> 00:29:25.800
 Right, so yeah, I spoke to him.

00:29:25.800 --> 00:29:26.800
 Yeah.

00:29:26.800 --> 00:29:27.400
 He had some good questions

00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:27.800
 about making--

00:29:27.800 --> 00:29:30.030
 So, yeah, well, you asked if

00:29:30.030 --> 00:29:31.470
 there was a connection between

00:29:31.470 --> 00:29:32.680
 Howard Stern and podcasting.

00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.280
 It's all sort of happening at

00:29:35.280 --> 00:29:36.520
 the same time.

00:29:36.520 --> 00:29:38.040
 And I said, you know, well, it

00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:38.640
's good.

00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.060
 Basically, we're all spreading

00:29:40.060 --> 00:29:41.210
 out and we're trying out new

00:29:41.210 --> 00:29:41.680
 ideas.

00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:43.310
 I honestly think that the

00:29:43.310 --> 00:29:45.090
 satellite radio is going to

00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:47.120
 catch on to podcasting and use

00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:48.710
 it effectively before they get

00:29:48.710 --> 00:29:49.600
 Howard Stern.

00:29:49.600 --> 00:29:50.600
 Oh, really?

00:29:50.600 --> 00:29:51.960
 I think it'll happen before

00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:52.880
 2006.

00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:53.880
 Why not?

00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.260
 They have a distribution system

00:29:55.260 --> 00:29:55.440
.

00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:56.440
 Yeah.

00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:57.440
 Right?

00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:58.960
 I mean, can you imagine having

00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.100
 XM radio for your home and

00:30:00.100 --> 00:30:01.240
 connecting it up to your

00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:01.800
 computer

00:30:01.800 --> 00:30:03.900
 and, you know, doing the Tivo

00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:06.040
 thing from your computer to--

00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:07.040
 Or conversely.

00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:08.040
 Why not?

00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:09.510
 Because they should have a

00:30:09.510 --> 00:30:11.260
 channel that does nothing more

00:30:11.260 --> 00:30:12.600
 than subscribes to five

00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:13.240
 different

00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:14.450
 feeds and just broadcast

00:30:14.450 --> 00:30:16.040
 whatever it comes up against.

00:30:16.040 --> 00:30:17.520
 That would be cool, too.

00:30:17.520 --> 00:30:19.680
 That's exactly right.

00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:20.680
 Why not?

00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:21.970
 Or, you know, give you a guy

00:30:21.970 --> 00:30:23.200
 like Adam Curry, right?

00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:24.300
 I mean, do you have a track

00:30:24.300 --> 00:30:25.680
 record for doing this stuff?

00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.190
 Yeah, give me a goddamn channel

00:30:27.190 --> 00:30:27.400
.

00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:29.280
 Put me on the bird, baby!

00:30:29.280 --> 00:30:30.760
 Well, actually, I was going to

00:30:30.760 --> 00:30:32.480
 say give you $100 million.

00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.110
 Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait,

00:30:34.110 --> 00:30:35.640
 wait, whoa, let me retry that

00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:36.440
 statement.

00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:38.800
 Channel on the bird, $100

00:30:38.800 --> 00:30:39.680
 million.

00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:40.680
 I'm calling NASA!

00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.050
 We're blasting off our own damn

00:30:43.050 --> 00:30:44.200
 spaceship!

00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:47.920
 Hey, don't get it started.

00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.580
 I like the way you say it, Dave

00:30:50.580 --> 00:30:50.960
.

00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:52.480
 Would you settle for $75

00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:53.080
 million?

00:30:53.080 --> 00:30:55.480
 I could barely do it.

00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:56.930
 I could probably work that out

00:30:56.930 --> 00:30:58.160
 with them, you know?

00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.520
 And they'll be willing to pay

00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:01.050
 cash for like $65 million if

00:31:01.050 --> 00:31:02.480
 you want to go for that, you

00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:03.480
 get cash.

00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:04.480
 Yeah, right.

00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:05.480
 If you want to tax free.

00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:06.860
 If you want to get it for $50

00:31:06.860 --> 00:31:07.400
 million.

00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.870
 I want to blow the doors off of

00:31:08.870 --> 00:31:09.840
 broadcasting.

00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:10.840
 That's what I want to do.

00:31:10.840 --> 00:31:12.140
 This is, I think I'm finally

00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:13.560
 finding my life's mission.

00:31:13.560 --> 00:31:15.240
 I mean, I was listening.

00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:17.400
 Did you hear the Steve Wozniak

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.000
 speech at Nondex?

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:20.160
 No, I haven't.

00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:22.160
 No, you keep talking about it.

00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.680
 Yeah, well, it was podcast.

00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:25.920
 IT Conversations put it up.

00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:27.540
 And I sat there listening as Wo

00:31:27.540 --> 00:31:29.220
zniak, who can't be much older

00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:29.960
 than I am.

00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:30.840
 What is he, is he about your

00:31:30.840 --> 00:31:31.120
 age?

00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:32.680
 So about 49, 50?

00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:33.680
 No, he's old.

00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:34.680
 Oh, no, no.

00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:35.680
 He's older than that?

00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:36.680
 Probably, yeah.

00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.160
 But he's got a young heart.

00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:40.560
 He was doing the same things as

00:31:40.560 --> 00:31:41.720
 a kid that I was doing.

00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:43.510
 I was reading Tom Swift Jr. by

00:31:43.510 --> 00:31:45.440
 the way, it's been, I've been

00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.000
 keeping this secret, but

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:48.000
 hey, this is trade secrets.

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.140
 I've been keeping this secret

00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:49.840
 for a long time.

00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:53.360
 I've secretly been doing an

00:31:53.360 --> 00:31:56.360
 audio book of Tom Swift because

00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:59.640
 they're all on the Gutenberg

00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:00.640
 project.

00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.300
 These books are more than 100

00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:02.960
 years old.

00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.680
 So of course, that would mean

00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:06.260
 that Wozniak could be that old

00:32:06.260 --> 00:32:06.880
 too.

00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:09.030
 But he also used the radio

00:32:09.030 --> 00:32:12.310
 shack 101 projects in one, all

00:32:12.310 --> 00:32:13.520
 that shit.

00:32:13.520 --> 00:32:15.200
 I was like, my God.

00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.860
 But I had, at a certain point,

00:32:16.860 --> 00:32:18.420
 it switched to broadcasting

00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:19.920
 when I was about 15.

00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.280
 I built my first transmitter.

00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:22.820
 He was also a ham radio

00:32:22.820 --> 00:32:24.920
 operator and built stuff.

00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:26.430
 And just about when it got to

00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:27.830
 the end and the ore and the

00:32:27.830 --> 00:32:29.320
 logic gates is where I went

00:32:29.320 --> 00:32:31.440
 off into broadcasting.

00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.500
 And I think I made a mark, may

00:32:33.500 --> 00:32:34.960
 it be a hairy one.

00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:36.970
 I made a mark in broadcasting,

00:32:36.970 --> 00:32:38.780
 certainly on MTV and on radio

00:32:38.780 --> 00:32:40.640
 stations around the world.

00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.700
 And then it was the internet

00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:44.390
 where I was right at the

00:32:44.390 --> 00:32:46.760
 beginning of, I was certainly

00:32:46.760 --> 00:32:47.240
 one of

00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:48.200
 those responsible for

00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:49.360
 commercializing the net,

00:32:49.360 --> 00:32:50.560
 whether that's a good or a bad

00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:50.880
 thing

00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:51.880
 is up in the air.

00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.520
 I think it's good personally.

00:32:55.520 --> 00:32:57.530
 And I just had like five years

00:32:57.530 --> 00:32:59.870
 of dicking around and nothing

00:32:59.870 --> 00:33:01.520
 really, learn how to fly

00:33:01.520 --> 00:33:02.520
 helicopters.

00:33:02.520 --> 00:33:03.520
 That's nice.

00:33:03.520 --> 00:33:05.070
 And did some, tried to start a

00:33:05.070 --> 00:33:06.640
 couple of things and lost some

00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:08.280
 money here and there and made

00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:10.400
 a little bit.

00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.760
 But just became a user, which

00:33:11.760 --> 00:33:13.120
 is what I promised myself.

00:33:13.120 --> 00:33:14.740
 And then all of a sudden, boom,

00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:16.060
 here's, oh, wait a minute,

00:33:16.060 --> 00:33:17.840
 there's something else.

00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:19.320
 And I'm kind of leading the

00:33:19.320 --> 00:33:20.000
 charge.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.560
 It's really exciting.

00:33:21.560 --> 00:33:22.680
 This may be what I'm supposed

00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:23.040
 to do.

00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:24.960
 What you did in the last, that

00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.930
's what you did in the last five

00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:28.600
 years you learned, you

00:33:28.600 --> 00:33:31.700
 assimilated and learned how to

00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:32.320
 do.

00:33:32.320 --> 00:33:33.320
 We all did.

00:33:33.320 --> 00:33:36.360
 I mean, five years ago, five

00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:39.630
 years ago, I had never, I never

00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:42.160
 launched a standard.

00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:43.890
 I mean, I had launched things

00:33:43.890 --> 00:33:45.590
 that would become standards,

00:33:45.590 --> 00:33:46.200
 right?

00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.520
 But I didn't know how to, you

00:33:48.520 --> 00:33:50.780
 know, how to get other people

00:33:50.780 --> 00:33:53.560
 to do what I was doing and

00:33:53.560 --> 00:33:55.360
 just sort of tripped over that,

00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:57.170
 you know, that basically, if

00:33:57.170 --> 00:33:58.520
 you want somebody to do

00:33:58.520 --> 00:34:00.090
 something, then you need to do

00:34:00.090 --> 00:34:00.760
 it first.

00:34:00.760 --> 00:34:02.060
 And that's, that's the big

00:34:02.060 --> 00:34:02.640
 secret.

00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:03.940
 You know, you can't stand back

00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:05.350
 and say, well, I'll do this and

00:34:05.350 --> 00:34:06.440
 everybody else, would you

00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:07.440
 all just do that?

00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:08.440
 No, it doesn't work that way.

00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:09.440
 They simply won't do it.

00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:10.440
 No, they won't do it.

00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:11.440
 They won't.

00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:12.130
 They'll just do what you're

00:34:12.130 --> 00:34:12.440
 doing.

00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:13.040
 And they'll say, okay, well,

00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:13.440
 who needs you?

00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:14.750
 We'll just like copy you and

00:34:14.750 --> 00:34:15.440
 whatever.

00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.740
 And, you know, that was at

00:34:16.740 --> 00:34:18.380
 first quite frustrating because

00:34:18.380 --> 00:34:20.200
 I said, well, geez, I'm already

00:34:20.200 --> 00:34:20.560
 doing

00:34:20.560 --> 00:34:21.560
 that.

00:34:21.560 --> 00:34:22.560
 Let me do that.

00:34:22.560 --> 00:34:23.560
 You do something else.

00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:25.440
 And then I realized that, that,

00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.170
 that, okay, I just learned to

00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:28.160
 accept that.

00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:29.160
 Okay.

00:34:29.160 --> 00:34:30.160
 Number one.

00:34:30.160 --> 00:34:31.790
 And then I started when I, when

00:34:31.790 --> 00:34:33.360
 I, when the thought popped in

00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.840
 my head is I wish everyone

00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:36.580
 would do X than all I did was

00:34:36.580 --> 00:34:38.410
 start doing X and saying how

00:34:38.410 --> 00:34:40.240
 great it was, you know, oh,

00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:41.680
 I can't believe this.

00:34:41.680 --> 00:34:42.680
 I always meant it.

00:34:42.680 --> 00:34:43.680
 You know what I mean?

00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:44.680
 It wasn't like I was saying.

00:34:44.680 --> 00:34:45.680
 Purposely did that.

00:34:45.680 --> 00:34:47.360
 I wanted everybody to do it.

00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:48.360
 Right.

00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:49.500
 I was doing it saying it was

00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:50.910
 great because I was really, you

00:34:50.910 --> 00:34:52.560
 know, loving what I was doing

00:34:52.560 --> 00:34:54.280
 and so excited and trying to

00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:55.990
 get everybody else excited

00:34:55.990 --> 00:34:56.840
 about it.

00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:00.120
 And so you've now done that.

00:35:00.120 --> 00:35:01.740
 And that's, you know, that's

00:35:01.740 --> 00:35:03.520
 something to be quite proud of.

00:35:03.520 --> 00:35:05.400
 I mean, you know, you actually

00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:06.920
 got people to copy you.

00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:09.880
 And, and that is how you create

00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.640
 these swells of activity.

00:35:12.640 --> 00:35:14.330
 And then the question is, does

00:35:14.330 --> 00:35:15.200
 it have legs?

00:35:15.200 --> 00:35:16.520
 And I'm sure this does.

00:35:16.520 --> 00:35:18.410
 I mean, I was sure, I was sure

00:35:18.410 --> 00:35:19.880
 it had legs when we were

00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.000
 sitting in a hotel in New York.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.120
 That was a 99, wasn't it?

00:35:24.120 --> 00:35:25.120
 Yeah.

00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:26.590
 I think it was 2000, but you

00:35:26.590 --> 00:35:27.620
 know, it was like when the

00:35:27.620 --> 00:35:28.880
 light bulb went on for me and

00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.320
 I, oh, that's a good idea.

00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:34.540
 You know, so fuck, how did this

00:35:34.540 --> 00:35:36.360
 like hair dude?

00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:37.360
 Yeah.

00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:38.360
 Like celebrity.

00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:39.360
 Yeah.

00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:40.360
 Did he figure this out?

00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:41.360
 Yeah.

00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.410
 It's like your star had to fade

00:35:43.410 --> 00:35:45.320
 a little bit before I came.

00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:46.440
 Before it could really shine.

00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:47.670
 Well, before they're ready to

00:35:47.670 --> 00:35:48.860
 let you have another career,

00:35:48.860 --> 00:35:49.880
 you see, that's the thing.

00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:50.880
 That's true.

00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:51.570
 People don't say that about you

00:35:51.570 --> 00:35:51.880
 anymore.

00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:53.280
 They don't, I don't hear that.

00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.440
 You know, they don't say, okay,

00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:55.590
 well, Adam Curry, oh, he's the

00:35:55.590 --> 00:35:56.280
 guy with the hair.

00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:57.280
 You don't hear that.

00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:58.280
 But, not much.

00:35:58.280 --> 00:35:59.280
 And still around.

00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:00.280
 It's a reference.

00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:01.280
 It's like a beacon.

00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:02.400
 I have, yeah, it's a beacon,

00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.420
 but I have to explain to some

00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:04.480
 people who you are and what

00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:05.480
 your background is.

00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:06.820
 People who should have known,

00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:08.310
 you know, you think, well, geez

00:36:08.310 --> 00:36:09.440
, where were they in the

00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:10.440
 80s, right?

00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.700
 But, you know, they obviously

00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:14.660
 weren't around what you were

00:36:14.660 --> 00:36:16.920
 doing and where they forgot.

00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:18.720
 Or, oh, that's possible.

00:36:18.720 --> 00:36:20.350
 I forgot a lot about the 80s

00:36:20.350 --> 00:36:20.760
 too.

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:21.980
 Well, you know what they say

00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:23.140
 about the 60s is if you

00:36:23.140 --> 00:36:24.260
 remember them, you weren't

00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:26.560
 there.

00:36:26.560 --> 00:36:27.940
 So I've been listening and I've

00:36:27.940 --> 00:36:29.210
 been subscribing to the KOMA

00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:30.560
 1000 news feed.

00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:32.200
 Oh, that's so awesome.

00:36:32.200 --> 00:36:33.200
 Yeah.

00:36:33.200 --> 00:36:34.200
 I got one that I want to play.

00:36:34.200 --> 00:36:35.200
 Here's a short news story.

00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:36.350
 These are great because about

00:36:36.350 --> 00:36:37.530
 45 minutes and they come in

00:36:37.530 --> 00:36:38.720
 neatly bundled packages.

00:36:38.720 --> 00:36:39.720
 45 seconds.

00:36:39.720 --> 00:36:40.720
 45 seconds.

00:36:40.720 --> 00:36:41.720
 Sorry.

00:36:41.720 --> 00:36:43.350
 Yeah, this is from Herb who

00:36:43.350 --> 00:36:45.060
 gives us tips on how to use our

00:36:45.060 --> 00:36:46.040
 computers.

00:36:46.040 --> 00:36:47.970
 And it made me laugh, but I,

00:36:47.970 --> 00:36:49.890
 you know, this is also a good

00:36:49.890 --> 00:36:52.120
 way to, you know, well, I'll

00:36:52.120 --> 00:36:53.680
 talk about content routing in a

00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:55.360
 second, but here's Herb with

00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:56.280
 his computer tip.

00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:57.850
 Ah, ah, ah, don't click that

00:36:57.850 --> 00:36:58.320
 link.

00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.370
 The opt-out link on spam email

00:37:00.370 --> 00:37:01.320
 messages.

00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:02.960
 Clicking it won't do any good.

00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:04.590
 And according to Message Labs,

00:37:04.590 --> 00:37:05.840
 a leading email security

00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:07.330
 service, it may let a hacker

00:37:07.330 --> 00:37:07.720
 take

00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:08.720
 over your computer.

00:37:08.720 --> 00:37:09.920
 Some spammers are putting

00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:11.260
 special code in those click

00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:12.360
 here to opt-out links.

00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:13.390
 The moment you click on it,

00:37:13.390 --> 00:37:14.500
 they turn your computer into a

00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:14.960
 zombie.

00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:16.630
 Bob Sullivan, technology

00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:18.580
 correspondent for MSNBC, says

00:37:18.580 --> 00:37:20.480
 they do that by hiding a Trojan

00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.480
 horse program on your system.

00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:23.610
 Once this Trojan is installed

00:37:23.610 --> 00:37:24.750
 on your computer, they can do

00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:25.850
 anything with your computer

00:37:25.850 --> 00:37:26.120
 that

00:37:26.120 --> 00:37:27.120
 you could do.

00:37:27.120 --> 00:37:27.950
 They can send out as much spam

00:37:27.950 --> 00:37:28.830
 as they want for your computer

00:37:28.830 --> 00:37:29.640
 and that's probably why

00:37:29.640 --> 00:37:30.640
 they're doing it.

00:37:30.640 --> 00:37:31.600
 But they could also move around

00:37:31.600 --> 00:37:32.340
 the internet using your

00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:32.800
 computer.

00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:34.040
 They could use your computer to

00:37:34.040 --> 00:37:35.280
 attack another computer.

00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.180
 And of course they could feel

00:37:36.180 --> 00:37:37.200
 all your personal information

00:37:37.200 --> 00:37:37.560
 from it.

00:37:37.560 --> 00:37:39.280
 So how do you protect yourself?

00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:41.090
 MSNBC's Bob Sullivan says the

00:37:41.090 --> 00:37:42.760
 safest thing you can do is to

00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:44.320
 read your email in plain

00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.880
 text and not HTML format.

00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:48.320
 You should also have your web

00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:49.650
 browser in a high security

00:37:49.650 --> 00:37:50.320
 setting.

00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:51.870
 Keep your antivirus software up

00:37:51.870 --> 00:37:52.440
 to date.

00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.270
 As you put a ginormous condom

00:37:54.270 --> 00:37:55.880
 all over yourself in your

00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:56.560
 computer.

00:37:56.560 --> 00:37:58.660
 And never click the unsubscribe

00:37:58.660 --> 00:38:00.360
 link in a spam message.

00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:01.440
 And that's today's tip.

00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:02.990
 I'm Herb Weissbaum, the

00:38:02.990 --> 00:38:04.930
 consumer man, looking out for

00:38:04.930 --> 00:38:07.160
 you on Como 1000 News.

00:38:07.160 --> 00:38:08.320
 I love that.

00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:09.760
 I feel so much safer than Herb

00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:11.040
 is looking out for us.

00:38:11.040 --> 00:38:12.040
 Herb's a good guy.

00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:13.040
 He's great.

00:38:13.040 --> 00:38:14.040
 He's great.

00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:15.390
 But he's saying all the right

00:38:15.390 --> 00:38:15.960
 things.

00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.360
 I gotta go see those guys.

00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:18.360
 They're local.

00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.360
 I'm here in Seattle.

00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:20.360
 They're in Seattle.

00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:21.360
 We've got to find out.

00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:22.110
 We've got some soul brothers

00:38:22.110 --> 00:38:22.360
 here.

00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:23.360
 Very cool.

00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:24.260
 What they're doing is so

00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:25.080
 incredibly cool.

00:38:25.080 --> 00:38:27.280
 Can I tell you a little story?

00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:28.280
 Yeah, go for it.

00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.880
 It's a real little bit of a

00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:31.320
 time.

00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:32.640
 We had the Thursday evening

00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:33.840
 meetings at Berkman.

00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:35.890
 We would do them every Thursday

00:38:35.890 --> 00:38:36.160
.

00:38:36.160 --> 00:38:37.600
 It was an open meeting for all

00:38:37.600 --> 00:38:39.100
 bloggers, not just people at

00:38:39.100 --> 00:38:40.560
 Harvard, but just anybody

00:38:40.560 --> 00:38:41.980
 in the area and people that

00:38:41.980 --> 00:38:43.530
 would come in town and they'd

00:38:43.530 --> 00:38:44.720
 come by and see us.

00:38:44.720 --> 00:38:45.890
 One of the regulars of those

00:38:45.890 --> 00:38:47.280
 meetings was Lisa Williams.

00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:48.540
 And we were talking about, I

00:38:48.540 --> 00:38:49.770
 forget exactly what we were

00:38:49.770 --> 00:38:51.280
 talking about, but the nature

00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:52.940
 of the web came up, or blogs or

00:38:52.940 --> 00:38:53.760
 whatever.

00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:56.250
 And she said that blogs are

00:38:56.250 --> 00:38:58.800
 like food that you can eat.

00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:01.690
 Like, okay, food you can eat

00:39:01.690 --> 00:39:03.720
 with chopsticks.

00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:04.720
 I asked her an explanation.

00:39:04.720 --> 00:39:07.360
 She said, well, you know, if

00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.820
 you look at what Chinese food

00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:12.200
 is, is that they design their

00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:13.350
 food so that it can be eaten

00:39:13.350 --> 00:39:14.320
 with chopsticks.

00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:15.820
 And you stop and think about it

00:39:15.820 --> 00:39:16.800
, and it's true.

00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.120
 There are these little chunks.

00:39:18.120 --> 00:39:19.880
 They're already pre-sliced.

00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:21.180
 Everything's already for you to

00:39:21.180 --> 00:39:22.100
 just pick it up and put it in

00:39:22.100 --> 00:39:23.120
 your mouth, which isn't

00:39:23.120 --> 00:39:24.630
 like Western food, which is

00:39:24.630 --> 00:39:25.920
 designed to be eaten with a

00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.800
 fork and knife.

00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:29.180
 So you eat like a steak if you

00:39:29.180 --> 00:39:30.920
 like that, right?

00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.360
 And then she was saying that

00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.910
 blogs are like Chinese food

00:39:35.910 --> 00:39:36.920
 that way.

00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:40.550
 They're these little morsels,

00:39:40.550 --> 00:39:43.960
 little standalone things.

00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.420
 And that's what struck me about

00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:48.210
 the Como podcast feed is that

00:39:48.210 --> 00:39:50.040
 what they're doing, like you

00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:51.930
 said in your daily source code,

00:39:51.930 --> 00:39:54.000
 is that, okay, they're now

00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.360
 giving me the daily news in a

00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:56.520
 form where, okay, if I'm not

00:39:56.520 --> 00:39:57.750
 interested, just hit the fast

00:39:57.750 --> 00:39:59.000
 forward button and I'm on to

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.000
 the next one.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.000
 Right.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:02.000
 Now that's a revolution.

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:03.970
 And the next step, of course,

00:40:03.970 --> 00:40:05.720
 is subscribe to the general

00:40:05.720 --> 00:40:07.400
 interest feed here or the

00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:07.840
 sports

00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:11.240
 feed or that's the next step.

00:40:11.240 --> 00:40:12.240
 Yeah.

00:40:12.240 --> 00:40:14.200
 It's putting a lot more, the

00:40:14.200 --> 00:40:16.400
 user is a lot more in control.

00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:18.310
 And yet there's nothing about

00:40:18.310 --> 00:40:19.870
 it that says you can't make

00:40:19.870 --> 00:40:21.200
 money doing this.

00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:22.510
 None of their business models

00:40:22.510 --> 00:40:23.240
 are negated.

00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:25.000
 However, they will have to deal

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:26.740
 with more competition because

00:40:26.740 --> 00:40:28.160
 there's not this scarce

00:40:28.160 --> 00:40:29.160
 resource called Bandlif.

00:40:29.160 --> 00:40:30.160
 I mean, or frequency.

00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:31.160
 Frequency, spectrum.

00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:32.160
 Spectrum, spectrum, right.

00:40:32.160 --> 00:40:33.160
 Spectrum is the right word.

00:40:33.160 --> 00:40:34.160
 Sorry.

00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:35.480
 I'm not a geek in that area.

00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:38.000
 But yeah, so it's wonderful.

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:39.500
 They took the lead in what you

00:40:39.500 --> 00:40:41.160
're doing with WGBH Boston.

00:40:41.160 --> 00:40:42.160
 That's fantastic.

00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:43.160
 Yeah, isn't that great?

00:40:43.160 --> 00:40:44.360
 The stories are a lot of fun.

00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:46.100
 And there's going to be a lot

00:40:46.100 --> 00:40:47.160
 more of that.

00:40:47.160 --> 00:40:49.160
 And that's so exciting.

00:40:49.160 --> 00:40:51.780
 I got another audio comment

00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:54.880
 from, have you ever listened to

00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:57.920
 the "Dawnton Drew" show?

00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:00.200
 I've only heard clips on your

00:41:00.200 --> 00:41:00.920
 show.

00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:02.160
 I have not listened to it yet.

00:41:02.160 --> 00:41:03.160
 They're funny, man.

00:41:03.160 --> 00:41:04.160
 You really should listen.

00:41:04.160 --> 00:41:05.920
 Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.150
 They wind up talking about how

00:41:08.150 --> 00:41:10.190
 Dawn is saying, "Okay, so when

00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:12.200
 you sit down to pee, does your

00:41:12.200 --> 00:41:13.200
 wiener get wet?"

00:41:13.200 --> 00:41:14.200
 And they're really honest.

00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:14.800
 These are really honest

00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:15.200
 questions.

00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:15.650
 These are the questions on

00:41:15.650 --> 00:41:16.200
 everybody's mind, right?

00:41:16.200 --> 00:41:17.200
 Yeah, I guess so.

00:41:17.200 --> 00:41:17.600
 It wouldn't have been a war in

00:41:17.600 --> 00:41:17.970
 Iraq if we knew the answer to

00:41:17.970 --> 00:41:18.200
 that one.

00:41:18.200 --> 00:41:19.200
 Hold on.

00:41:19.200 --> 00:41:20.200
 Here's a question.

00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:24.830
 Actually, it was probably for

00:41:24.830 --> 00:41:29.620
 the source code, but since this

00:41:29.620 --> 00:41:33.840
 is my recording, "Venture

00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:35.840
 for Today," we'll use it here.

00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:37.430
 Hey, Adam, it's Drew from the "

00:41:37.430 --> 00:41:38.600
Dawnton Drew" show.

00:41:38.600 --> 00:41:40.730
 I just thought I'd try out this

00:41:40.730 --> 00:41:43.040
 audio comment type of thing.

00:41:43.040 --> 00:41:44.630
 It just seems like the cool

00:41:44.630 --> 00:41:46.200
 thing to do these days.

00:41:46.200 --> 00:41:47.890
 But I was checking out your

00:41:47.890 --> 00:41:49.590
 podcast today and you were

00:41:49.590 --> 00:41:52.440
 referencing, what's his name?

00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:53.440
 Go Higan.

00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.480
 He does it for us.

00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:56.830
 Hey, Adam, it's Michael Gohagan

00:41:56.830 --> 00:41:57.040
.

00:41:57.040 --> 00:41:58.040
 Michael.

00:41:58.040 --> 00:41:59.040
 There we go.

00:41:59.040 --> 00:42:00.040
 Go Higan.

00:42:00.040 --> 00:42:01.040
 Okay, here's some feedback.

00:42:01.040 --> 00:42:02.560
 Michael Gohagan, he was

00:42:02.560 --> 00:42:04.140
 mentioning the whole genre

00:42:04.140 --> 00:42:04.760
 thing.

00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:06.140
 And I just thought that was

00:42:06.140 --> 00:42:07.720
 really interesting because I

00:42:07.720 --> 00:42:09.440
 hadn't really realized that it

00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:09.520
 was

00:42:09.520 --> 00:42:10.520
 even an issue.

00:42:10.520 --> 00:42:12.470
 I had been doing it since the

00:42:12.470 --> 00:42:13.280
...

00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:14.730
 I think I did it from the third

00:42:14.730 --> 00:42:15.200
 show.

00:42:15.200 --> 00:42:16.530
 I started adding all the

00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:18.140
 metadata and then I went back

00:42:18.140 --> 00:42:19.840
 in and redid all the metadata

00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:21.290
 even back to the very first

00:42:21.290 --> 00:42:22.710
 show so anybody who grabs all

00:42:22.710 --> 00:42:24.440
 of them, as I was going through

00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:26.340
 the metadata, the ID3 tags

00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:28.380
 inside iTunes, I realized that

00:42:28.380 --> 00:42:30.120
 you could type in the genre

00:42:30.120 --> 00:42:31.120
 tag.

00:42:31.120 --> 00:42:32.500
 So I just went ahead and put

00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:34.130
 podcast and I've been doing it

00:42:34.130 --> 00:42:34.920
 ever since.

00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:36.760
 And I just think it's pretty

00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:38.590
 cool that I was just forcing

00:42:38.590 --> 00:42:40.400
 that genre upon anybody and

00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:40.800
 everybody's

00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:41.800
 iTunes.

00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:43.360
 So interesting that that was

00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:44.800
 what you guys were talking

00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.440
 about and I'd been doing that

00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:47.860
 and not that I'm the pioneer of

00:42:47.860 --> 00:42:48.880
 that or anything.

00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:50.640
 I just think it's cool.

00:42:50.640 --> 00:42:52.140
 I think it's totally

00:42:52.140 --> 00:42:54.090
 appropriate and we should

00:42:54.090 --> 00:42:56.380
 definitely force our agenda on

00:42:56.380 --> 00:42:57.560
 the masses.

00:42:57.560 --> 00:43:00.080
 So yeah, hey, awesome show.

00:43:00.080 --> 00:43:01.080
 Thanks again for...

00:43:01.080 --> 00:43:02.790
 I mean, you inadvertently

00:43:02.790 --> 00:43:04.360
 plugged our show again by

00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:05.990
 playing that podcast from

00:43:05.990 --> 00:43:06.720
 Canada.

00:43:06.720 --> 00:43:07.720
 All right.

00:43:07.720 --> 00:43:09.670
 So then he goes on to thank me

00:43:09.670 --> 00:43:10.720
 profusely.

00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:12.640
 But these are just users, man.

00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:14.260
 These are just people who are

00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:16.120
 just digging and doing this.

00:43:16.120 --> 00:43:17.890
 You gotta be careful I found

00:43:17.890 --> 00:43:20.200
 out about calling people users.

00:43:20.200 --> 00:43:24.350
 They don't necessarily see

00:43:24.350 --> 00:43:28.000
 themselves that way.

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:28.900
 The other thing I was thinking

00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:29.640
 about is listening.

00:43:29.640 --> 00:43:31.310
 I didn't hear most of what he

00:43:31.310 --> 00:43:33.160
 said because the convictions

00:43:33.160 --> 00:43:34.360
 get pretty bad.

00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:35.500
 You must be doing an iPod or

00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:36.360
 scan right now.

00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:37.360
 No, I have everything off.

00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.040
 I have all my shared drives are

00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:40.120
 disconnected.

00:43:40.120 --> 00:43:41.680
 I'm standing on my left foot.

00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:43.080
 I'm probably doing one.

00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:44.630
 Yeah, you're probably your

00:43:44.630 --> 00:43:46.560
 aggregators sucking shit down.

00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:48.220
 I think Adam, it's getting

00:43:48.220 --> 00:43:49.950
 pretty close to time for some

00:43:49.950 --> 00:43:50.680
 awards.

00:43:50.680 --> 00:43:52.980
 Yeah, I think it's getting

00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:53.800
 there.

00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:55.800
 And a button on your homepage.

00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:56.800
 That's the thing.

00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:57.800
 Well, no, I'm not kidding.

00:43:57.800 --> 00:43:58.800
 This is a joke.

00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.050
 The thing is, is that people

00:44:01.050 --> 00:44:02.320
 mostly...

00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:03.410
 We talk about this with

00:44:03.410 --> 00:44:04.600
 developers, right?

00:44:04.600 --> 00:44:06.120
 What do developers want?

00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:08.290
 90% of what a developer wants

00:44:08.290 --> 00:44:10.050
 is to be appreciated, to be

00:44:10.050 --> 00:44:12.050
 acknowledged, to be seen, to

00:44:12.050 --> 00:44:12.760
 achieve

00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:14.670
 visibility through their

00:44:14.670 --> 00:44:16.920
 creativity, which is the best

00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:19.440
 way for somebody to be visible.

00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:20.720
 You don't want somebody to be

00:44:20.720 --> 00:44:21.040
...

00:44:21.040 --> 00:44:22.610
 Then to have to create

00:44:22.610 --> 00:44:24.790
 visibility by flaming you on a

00:44:24.790 --> 00:44:25.840
 mail list.

00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.840
 Right, right.

00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:29.180
 So, we're still in good vibe

00:44:29.180 --> 00:44:30.320
 land here.

00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.740
 And maybe we could figure out a

00:44:32.740 --> 00:44:33.960
 way...

00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:34.960
 It can't just be...

00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.150
 I don't know how we do it, but

00:44:37.150 --> 00:44:39.190
 it'd be great to sort of give

00:44:39.190 --> 00:44:41.680
 everybody who's done a podcast

00:44:41.680 --> 00:44:43.660
 right now some way of being

00:44:43.660 --> 00:44:45.720
 part of something, like an

00:44:45.720 --> 00:44:47.720
 association or...

00:44:47.720 --> 00:44:48.680
 Because these are the good

00:44:48.680 --> 00:44:49.360
 energy people.

00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:51.050
 These are people who are going

00:44:51.050 --> 00:44:52.720
 to remember when it was

00:44:52.720 --> 00:44:53.080
 wonderful.

00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:54.860
 National association of podcas

00:44:54.860 --> 00:44:55.360
ters.

00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:56.360
 N-A-P-G.

00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:57.360
 MAPC.

00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.360
 MAPC.

00:44:58.360 --> 00:44:59.360
 MAPC.

00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:00.360
 MAPC.

00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:01.360
 I'm going to the MAPC.

00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:02.360
 I don't think so.

00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:03.360
 No.

00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.360
 We'll have to work on that one.

00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:05.360
 Yeah.

00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:08.250
 Well, either we do it at or

00:45:08.250 --> 00:45:11.700
 around BloggerCon or how it has

00:45:11.700 --> 00:45:14.880
 to happen after BloggerCon,

00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:15.880
 because that's...

00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:16.880
 Okay, okay.

00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:17.880
 You got it.

00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:18.880
 We're going to have a pod...

00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:19.880
 I got it.

00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:20.880
 This is what Doug K asked for.

00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:21.880
 We got to do it.

00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:23.150
 We're going to have a podcaster

00:45:23.150 --> 00:45:24.220
's dinner on Saturday Night at

00:45:24.220 --> 00:45:24.880
 BloggerCon.

00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:25.880
 There you go.

00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:26.880
 There you go.

00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:27.880
 Okay.

00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:28.880
 Oh, man.

00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:29.880
 It'll be a good guest.

00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:30.880
 It's going to be fun.

00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:31.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:31.570 --> 00:45:31.880
 dinner.

00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:32.600
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:32.600 --> 00:45:32.880
 dinner.

00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:33.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:33.570 --> 00:45:33.880
 dinner.

00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:34.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:34.570 --> 00:45:34.880
 dinner.

00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:35.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:35.570 --> 00:45:35.880
 dinner.

00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:36.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:36.570 --> 00:45:36.880
 dinner.

00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:37.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:37.570 --> 00:45:37.880
 dinner.

00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:38.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:38.570 --> 00:45:38.880
 dinner.

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:39.560
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:39.560 --> 00:45:39.880
 dinner.

00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:40.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:40.570 --> 00:45:40.880
 dinner.

00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:41.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:41.570 --> 00:45:41.880
 dinner.

00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:42.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:42.570 --> 00:45:42.880
 dinner.

00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:43.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:43.880
 dinner.

00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:44.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:44.570 --> 00:45:44.880
 dinner.

00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:45.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:45.880
 dinner.

00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:46.570
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:45:46.570 --> 00:45:46.880
 dinner.

00:45:46.880 --> 00:46:00.190
 I'm going to have a podcaster's

00:46:00.190 --> 00:46:04.880
 dinner.

00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:06.900
 That is a take off of a take

00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:09.180
 off of a take off on the way

00:46:09.180 --> 00:46:11.880
 old fashioned announcers talk.

00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.110
 What you notice in the radio

00:46:14.110 --> 00:46:15.830
 business, guys on the real

00:46:15.830 --> 00:46:17.840
 radio, not podcasting but

00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:19.120
 broadcasting,

00:46:19.120 --> 00:46:20.480
 they're always, you know, you

00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:21.480
 stand next to them in the

00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:22.480
 studio and listen.

00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:23.970
 They're screaming most of them

00:46:23.970 --> 00:46:25.510
 like, "Everybody, it's a WCZZZ

00:46:25.510 --> 00:46:26.360
 100.

00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:27.110
 We'll take all of them right

00:46:27.110 --> 00:46:27.360
 now.

00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:27.820
 One, two, three, four, two,

00:46:27.820 --> 00:46:28.360
 three, zero, one hundred.

00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:29.360
 Do that from Z100."

00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:30.360
 Right?

00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:31.360
 So, I've had some practice.

00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.680
 Wait a whole lot of it while I

00:46:34.680 --> 00:46:37.360
 regain my composer.

00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:38.360
 Right.

00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:40.390
 Well, you know, so then the

00:46:40.390 --> 00:46:43.160
 other one is 107.5, WLTW,

00:46:43.160 --> 00:46:45.680
 playing the best of the 70s,

00:46:45.680 --> 00:46:46.680
 the 80s,

00:46:46.680 --> 00:46:47.680
 and the 90s.

00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:48.680
 We're the mix in time.

00:46:48.680 --> 00:46:49.680
 Yeah, I can do that one.

00:46:49.680 --> 00:46:50.520
 I don't think it works on WNEDW

00:46:50.520 --> 00:46:50.680
.

00:46:50.680 --> 00:46:51.680
 WNEDW.

00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:53.610
 Well, yeah, no, that had to be

00:46:53.610 --> 00:46:55.060
 kind of like the muffled

00:46:55.060 --> 00:46:56.160
 microphone.

00:46:56.160 --> 00:46:58.860
 It was like, "Jonathan Schwartz

00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.080
 on WNEW FM."

00:47:00.080 --> 00:47:01.760
 No, you know, you're overdoing

00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:02.080
 it.

00:47:02.080 --> 00:47:03.600
 He was the foe sincere.

00:47:03.600 --> 00:47:04.910
 He was sort of like your best

00:47:04.910 --> 00:47:06.400
 friend, but the best friend of

00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:07.520
 your girlfriend.

00:47:07.520 --> 00:47:08.520
 Right.

00:47:08.520 --> 00:47:09.520
 Right.

00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:10.660
 And so he could do the trade

00:47:10.660 --> 00:47:11.240
 secrets.

00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:12.600
 I mean, you know, you always

00:47:12.600 --> 00:47:13.800
 sort of get the idea that he

00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:15.040
 knew how to get the chicks.

00:47:15.040 --> 00:47:16.300
 So, you wanted to sort of

00:47:16.300 --> 00:47:17.800
 listen to figure out how he was

00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:19.120
 doing it so that you could

00:47:19.120 --> 00:47:20.120
 get some too.

00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:22.110
 Well, so, I think it all

00:47:22.110 --> 00:47:23.200
 happened.

00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:26.150
 Howard Stern really brought

00:47:26.150 --> 00:47:28.720
 that into the front of the

00:47:28.720 --> 00:47:31.840
 media when Hank Kingsley from

00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:33.360
 Larry Sander's show.

00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.530
 "Hey now, Hank Kingsley, and

00:47:36.530 --> 00:47:39.520
 now it's time for Larry Sander

00:47:39.520 --> 00:47:40.000
."

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.410
 And so Howard Stern started

00:47:41.410 --> 00:47:42.560
 doing a lot of that.

00:47:42.560 --> 00:47:44.300
 But in the meantime, at radio

00:47:44.300 --> 00:47:46.060
 station, this has been this way

00:47:46.060 --> 00:47:47.720
 forever since, I guess,

00:47:47.720 --> 00:47:49.950
 you know, Rock and Roll radio

00:47:49.950 --> 00:47:50.240
 started.

00:47:50.240 --> 00:47:52.400
 Those who weren't on the radio,

00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:54.320
 so like the program director

00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.200
 and the managing or the general

00:47:56.200 --> 00:47:57.850
 manager or the music director,

00:47:57.850 --> 00:47:59.640
 they all, you know, have this

00:47:59.640 --> 00:48:01.360
 like special little language

00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:02.870
 that they speak with the air

00:48:02.870 --> 00:48:04.460
 talent who are often like the

00:48:04.460 --> 00:48:06.280
 morning show guy who might also

00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:08.040
 be the program director.

00:48:08.040 --> 00:48:08.900
 And they all talk about, "Hey

00:48:08.900 --> 00:48:09.570
 man, I know what I'm doing,

00:48:09.570 --> 00:48:10.040
 everybody.

00:48:10.040 --> 00:48:11.510
 Hey man, yeah man, we got good

00:48:11.510 --> 00:48:12.400
 radio news man.

00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:14.080
 Yeah, hey man, yeah man, I'll

00:48:14.080 --> 00:48:14.920
 talk later.

00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:15.920
 Bye, bye."

00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:16.990
 Because, you know, we're all

00:48:16.990 --> 00:48:18.240
 such incredible communicators.

00:48:18.240 --> 00:48:19.750
 We have our own little special

00:48:19.750 --> 00:48:20.520
 shorthand.

00:48:20.520 --> 00:48:22.020
 And ask anyone in radio, they

00:48:22.020 --> 00:48:23.080
'll confirm this.

00:48:23.080 --> 00:48:24.880
 It's horrible.

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:26.690
 So you know, you just get into

00:48:26.690 --> 00:48:28.590
 the habit of just slipping into

00:48:28.590 --> 00:48:30.280
 it and you know, the automatic

00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:31.910
 thing is, "Hey now everybody,

00:48:31.910 --> 00:48:32.800
 how you doing?

00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:34.800
 Good morning!"

00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:35.800
 So.

00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:37.800
 That was great.

00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:39.280
 But listen to the radio and

00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:41.080
 that's the difference between

00:48:41.080 --> 00:48:43.120
 radio broadcasts and podcasts.

00:48:43.120 --> 00:48:44.470
 That's the first thing you hear

00:48:44.470 --> 00:48:44.560
.

00:48:44.560 --> 00:48:45.700
 That's why I say it's like

00:48:45.700 --> 00:48:46.890
 college radio, which was

00:48:46.890 --> 00:48:48.440
 incredibly cool man, you gotta

00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:48.600
 listen

00:48:48.600 --> 00:48:50.500
 to college radio back in the 80

00:48:50.500 --> 00:48:50.800
s.

00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:51.800
 That's where it was happening.

00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:53.430
 That's where that's where the R

00:48:53.430 --> 00:48:54.680
.E.M came from.

00:48:54.680 --> 00:48:55.680
 You know.

00:48:55.680 --> 00:48:57.760
 Well I did actually listen to

00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.470
 FM radio when I was in San

00:48:59.470 --> 00:49:01.720
 Francisco and it was actually

00:49:01.720 --> 00:49:02.720
 kind of nice.

00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:04.790
 There's a station called KFRC

00:49:04.790 --> 00:49:06.430
 which is an oldies format and

00:49:06.430 --> 00:49:08.080
 they played some songs I

00:49:08.080 --> 00:49:10.120
 hadn't heard in a long time.

00:49:10.120 --> 00:49:11.120
 Right.

00:49:11.120 --> 00:49:12.120
 And I like that.

00:49:12.120 --> 00:49:13.120
 It's nice, you know.

00:49:13.120 --> 00:49:14.910
 They played a song called "

00:49:14.910 --> 00:49:16.650
Those were the days, those were

00:49:16.650 --> 00:49:18.000
 the days my friend."

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.020
 "Days my friend, I know they

00:49:20.020 --> 00:49:20.600
 never"

00:49:20.600 --> 00:49:22.540
 We thought it turned out, an

00:49:22.540 --> 00:49:24.610
 answer came on and explained

00:49:24.610 --> 00:49:27.160
 that it was a Russian song.

00:49:27.160 --> 00:49:28.840
 I think her name was Hopkins,

00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:29.840
 Mary Hopkins.

00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.000
 And it was a wonderful song.

00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.380
 So you know, I was like, I sat

00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:35.720
 there in the parking lot.

00:49:35.720 --> 00:49:37.920
 I got into the hotel.

00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:39.250
 And I just listened and I tears

00:49:39.250 --> 00:49:40.680
, you know, it's sad because it

00:49:40.680 --> 00:49:41.760
's true those were the

00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.360
 days we thought they'd never

00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:43.800
 end.

00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.560
 We were young and we didn't

00:49:45.560 --> 00:49:46.640
 know better.

00:49:46.640 --> 00:49:47.640
 We're getting close.

00:49:47.640 --> 00:49:48.510
 We're getting damn close, right

00:49:48.510 --> 00:49:48.640
?

00:49:48.640 --> 00:49:49.640
 Oh man.

00:49:49.640 --> 00:49:50.640
 Damn it.

00:49:50.640 --> 00:49:51.640
 You mentioned that.

00:49:51.640 --> 00:49:52.640
 I wish I had known.

00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:53.640
 What?

00:49:53.640 --> 00:49:54.640
 Now go ahead.

00:49:54.640 --> 00:49:55.640
 You wish you'd known what?

00:49:55.640 --> 00:49:56.330
 I wish I had known then what I

00:49:56.330 --> 00:49:56.640
 know now.

00:49:56.640 --> 00:49:57.640
 You know.

00:49:57.640 --> 00:49:58.640
 Oh, stupid cliche.

00:49:58.640 --> 00:49:59.640
 Right.

00:49:59.640 --> 00:50:00.640
 Sure.

00:50:00.640 --> 00:50:01.640
 Anyway.

00:50:01.640 --> 00:50:02.760
 Yesterday on the source code I

00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:04.010
 played Frank Sinatra, "Come Fly

00:50:04.010 --> 00:50:04.560
 With Me."

00:50:04.560 --> 00:50:05.560
 Yeah.

00:50:05.560 --> 00:50:06.560
 Yeah, I know.

00:50:06.560 --> 00:50:07.280
 So here's something really

00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:07.560
 weird.

00:50:07.560 --> 00:50:10.570
 Today in slips my into my iPod

00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:11.360
der.

00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:13.880
 So I actually checked it on

00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:14.360
 iTunes.

00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:16.540
 The latest GeekSpeak, which is

00:50:16.540 --> 00:50:18.240
 the gamer Geeks who have a

00:50:18.240 --> 00:50:19.160
 podcast.

00:50:19.160 --> 00:50:20.160
 Yeah.

00:50:20.160 --> 00:50:20.900
 Check them out what they

00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:21.440
 started with.

00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:22.440
 This is this.

00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:23.730
 It freaked me out and it took

00:50:23.730 --> 00:50:25.100
 me a second and I won't let you

00:50:25.100 --> 00:50:26.320
 hear the whole thing, but

00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:28.160
 you'll understand.

00:50:28.160 --> 00:50:30.760
 Fly me to the moon.

00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:31.760
 Yeah.

00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.760
 Let me.

00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:33.760
 That's how they started.

00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:35.040
 Listen, I can tell you didn't

00:50:35.040 --> 00:50:36.390
 read scripting news yesterday

00:50:36.390 --> 00:50:38.280
 because number one I went to

00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:39.280
 --

00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:40.280
 Yeah, I did.

00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:41.280
 I did.

00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:42.280
 I did.

00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:43.280
 You did.

00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:44.280
 Yeah.

00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.280
 You did.

00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:46.030
 I'm waiting for you to tell the

00:50:46.030 --> 00:50:46.280
 story.

00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:47.030
 I'm waiting for you to tell the

00:50:47.030 --> 00:50:47.280
 story.

00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:48.280
 Oh, yeah.

00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:49.790
 I was getting off the tram at F

00:50:49.790 --> 00:50:51.640
FO listening to the Daily Source

00:50:51.640 --> 00:50:52.040
 Code.

00:50:52.040 --> 00:50:53.970
 I had just returned my rental

00:50:53.970 --> 00:50:55.490
 car and was going to the

00:50:55.490 --> 00:50:57.840
 terminal and Adam says, "Well,

00:50:57.840 --> 00:50:59.040
 I'm going to play you a song."

00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:00.500
 And the song comes on as I'm

00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:02.240
 going down and says, "Welcome

00:51:02.240 --> 00:51:04.160
 to San Francisco International

00:51:04.160 --> 00:51:04.400
."

00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:06.400
 And it's come fly with me.

00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:07.400
 Da, da, da, da.

00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:08.780
 And I go, "Fuck, I'm going

00:51:08.780 --> 00:51:09.400
 flying."

00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.400
 Adam, all right.

00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:12.400
 Not bad.

00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:13.400
 Everybody.

00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:14.400
 Everybody.

00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:15.400
 Everybody.

00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:16.400
 Yeah.

00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:17.400
 Big, big, big.

00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:18.400
 Everybody.

00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:19.400
 Everybody.

00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:20.400
 He's from Seattle, Washington.

00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:21.120
 How's it going up there, Big

00:51:21.120 --> 00:51:21.400
 Davey?

00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.330
 Listen to the radio and you're

00:51:24.330 --> 00:51:26.170
 going to -- is it going to

00:51:26.170 --> 00:51:27.560
 start noticing this?

00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:29.240
 You will start noticing how

00:51:29.240 --> 00:51:30.440
 these guys talk.

00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:31.440
 Oh, yeah.

00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:32.440
 And they're so cookie cutter.

00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:34.520
 In the middle of the day, there

00:51:34.520 --> 00:51:36.480
's always the midday girl.

00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:37.110
 That's when the women are

00:51:37.110 --> 00:51:37.480
 always on.

00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:38.990
 It has to be midday, after the

00:51:38.990 --> 00:51:40.230
 morning show and before

00:51:40.230 --> 00:51:41.400
 afternoon drive.

00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:43.840
 So it kind of carries you over.

00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:46.120
 And it's for housewives.

00:51:46.120 --> 00:51:47.050
 That's why they always put

00:51:47.050 --> 00:51:47.640
 women there.

00:51:47.640 --> 00:51:49.800
 Actually, when I was a kid, N-E

00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.200
-W-F-M, which was my station,

00:51:52.200 --> 00:51:53.520
 had Allison Steele.

00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:54.520
 Allison Steele, yeah.

00:51:54.520 --> 00:51:55.520
 Allison Steele, the nighter.

00:51:55.520 --> 00:51:56.520
 Right.

00:51:56.520 --> 00:51:57.520
 Yeah.

00:51:57.520 --> 00:51:58.520
 The nightbird, exactly.

00:51:58.520 --> 00:51:59.520
 The nightbird, yeah.

00:51:59.520 --> 00:52:01.770
 And she would be on at 2 a.m.

00:52:01.770 --> 00:52:03.470
 and he'd go, "Oh my God, she

00:52:03.470 --> 00:52:05.440
 must be a mysterious woman.

00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:06.440
 She's on at 2 a.m."

00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:07.990
 She had the perfect face for

00:52:07.990 --> 00:52:09.280
 radio, my friend.

00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:10.280
 Yeah.

00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:12.260
 And then she used to play --

00:52:12.260 --> 00:52:14.500
 there was a song, I forget who

00:52:14.500 --> 00:52:16.880
's saying it, it was called, "I

00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:18.380
 Usually Like It Much Better in

00:52:18.380 --> 00:52:19.240
 the Morning."

00:52:19.240 --> 00:52:20.240
 Yeah.

00:52:20.240 --> 00:52:21.990
 And it was a woman singing that

00:52:21.990 --> 00:52:22.240
.

00:52:22.240 --> 00:52:23.360
 Maybe you could find that

00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:24.040
 somewhere.

00:52:24.040 --> 00:52:25.040
 It was really something.

00:52:25.040 --> 00:52:26.030
 I like it so much, but I'll

00:52:26.030 --> 00:52:27.120
 have to look at it for it later

00:52:27.120 --> 00:52:27.360
.

00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:28.600
 I like it much better in the

00:52:28.600 --> 00:52:30.080
 morning, which was an unusual

00:52:30.080 --> 00:52:30.960
 thought to me.

00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.330
 Because whatever, I was fashion

00:52:32.330 --> 00:52:32.920
, obviously.

00:52:32.920 --> 00:52:33.920
 I was 16 years old.

00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:34.460
 What else do you think I was

00:52:34.460 --> 00:52:34.920
 thinking about?

00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:35.920
 Yeah.

00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:36.670
 You would listen to the night

00:52:36.670 --> 00:52:36.920
bird.

00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:38.550
 And see, here's the generation

00:52:38.550 --> 00:52:39.320
 gap, Dave.

00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:41.690
 When I moved to New York in '87

00:52:41.690 --> 00:52:43.680
, I was 20-something.

00:52:43.680 --> 00:52:46.280
 We had Robin Bird on Channel J.

00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:47.280
 Oh, God.

00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:48.280
 Have you ever seen her?

00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:49.280
 Oh, God.

00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:51.720
 Yeah, that's a faint echo of

00:52:51.720 --> 00:52:54.120
 what Allison Steele was.

00:52:54.120 --> 00:52:56.520
 "Come on, baby, bang my box.

00:52:56.520 --> 00:52:58.120
 Come on, baby, bang my box.

00:52:58.120 --> 00:52:59.120
 You can bang my box."

00:52:59.120 --> 00:53:00.120
 That was a great show.

00:53:00.120 --> 00:53:01.120
 I love that show.

00:53:01.120 --> 00:53:03.120
 Listen, when all this shit was

00:53:03.120 --> 00:53:05.210
 going on with Jonathan Schwartz

00:53:05.210 --> 00:53:06.800
 and Scott Muney was another

00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:07.800
 one.

00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:08.800
 Yeah, Scott Muney, W-N-E-W-S-N.

00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:10.190
 There were hippies in the East

00:53:10.190 --> 00:53:10.800
 Village.

00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:11.800
 You know?

00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:12.800
 There were long-haired hippies.

00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:14.360
 Just like there were in Haydn,

00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:14.960
 Asbury.

00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:16.140
 K-Fog was, I don't know, from

00:53:16.140 --> 00:53:16.960
 the first place.

00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:18.270
 I don't know anything about San

00:53:18.270 --> 00:53:19.320
 Francisco Radio Zero.

00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:20.620
 Doc Searles knows everything

00:53:20.620 --> 00:53:22.000
 about San Francisco Radio.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:23.400
 Well, yeah, he does.

00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:24.570
 There's two stations in San

00:53:24.570 --> 00:53:25.790
 Francisco Bay Area that were

00:53:25.790 --> 00:53:27.280
 seminal, made a big difference,

00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.680
 at least as far as I know,

00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:30.120
 where K-Fog, which is still

00:53:30.120 --> 00:53:30.720
 there.

00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:32.680
 That was a progressive rock.

00:53:32.680 --> 00:53:33.680
 Right.

00:53:33.680 --> 00:53:34.400
 You know, the equivalent of W-N

00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:34.680
-E-W.

00:53:34.680 --> 00:53:35.680
 Then it was K-Pig.

00:53:35.680 --> 00:53:36.680
 K-Pig, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:36.680 --> 00:53:37.680
 In Gilroy, I think they were.

00:53:37.680 --> 00:53:40.590
 They had a stream going for a

00:53:40.590 --> 00:53:42.040
 long time.

00:53:42.040 --> 00:53:43.040
 But they still streamed.

00:53:43.040 --> 00:53:43.890
 They were like one of the big

00:53:43.890 --> 00:53:44.760
 pioneering streamers.

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:45.900
 I don't know, but they were

00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:46.640
 still there.

00:53:46.640 --> 00:53:48.120
 When I moved to the Bay Area in

00:53:48.120 --> 00:53:49.880
 '79, and I lived in Los Gatos,

00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:51.080
 that was the first place

00:53:51.080 --> 00:53:52.840
 I lived.

00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:53.840
 They were close.

00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:55.310
 I was close enough to Gilroy to

00:53:55.310 --> 00:53:56.820
 actually pick up K-Pig, and it

00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:57.560
 was great.

00:53:57.560 --> 00:53:58.560
 I couldn't believe it.

00:53:58.560 --> 00:53:59.220
 They were playing things like

00:53:59.220 --> 00:53:59.560
 Little Feet.

00:53:59.560 --> 00:54:00.670
 Little Feet was one of my

00:54:00.670 --> 00:54:01.600
 favorite bands.

00:54:01.600 --> 00:54:02.920
 Right, right, right.

00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:07.000
 They played The Dead.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:08.320
 They played all the sort of

00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:09.640
 stuff you never heard on FM

00:54:09.640 --> 00:54:10.200
 Radio.

00:54:10.200 --> 00:54:11.780
 Of course, they were too good,

00:54:11.780 --> 00:54:12.760
 I guess, to last.

00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:14.240
 Doc, we'll talk about that.

00:54:14.240 --> 00:54:16.400
 I'm sure Doc will be there at

00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:17.280
 Barcon.

00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:18.820
 We got to do so many podcasts

00:54:18.820 --> 00:54:20.440
 when we're at BloggerCon.

00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:21.430
 I'm just looking forward to

00:54:21.430 --> 00:54:22.680
 putting cool stuff together.

00:54:22.680 --> 00:54:24.230
 I think Sliden did that at the

00:54:24.230 --> 00:54:25.200
 first Barcon.

00:54:25.200 --> 00:54:26.200
 He did.

00:54:26.200 --> 00:54:27.200
 It was really good.

00:54:27.200 --> 00:54:28.200
 It was very good.

00:54:28.200 --> 00:54:29.200
 In fact, he interviewed you.

00:54:29.200 --> 00:54:30.200
 We should dig that one up.

00:54:30.200 --> 00:54:31.200
 We should dig that one up.

00:54:31.200 --> 00:54:32.850
 It was you, and who else did he

00:54:32.850 --> 00:54:34.840
 interview that was really good?

00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:35.840
 It was Jay Rosen.

00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:36.840
 Yeah, you're right.

00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:38.620
 Jay Rosen was at Jay Rosen's

00:54:38.620 --> 00:54:40.330
 podcast, or really we can call

00:54:40.330 --> 00:54:41.920
 him podcast then, but I

00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:42.200
 remember

00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:43.200
 going, "Okay."

00:54:43.200 --> 00:54:44.670
 Webcast, we called him for some

00:54:44.670 --> 00:54:45.200
 reason.

00:54:45.200 --> 00:54:47.200
 Something like that.

00:54:47.200 --> 00:54:47.990
 Well, they were cast from the

00:54:47.990 --> 00:54:48.200
 web.

00:54:48.200 --> 00:54:49.200
 I don't remember.

00:54:49.200 --> 00:54:49.930
 We'll have to go back and

00:54:49.930 --> 00:54:50.770
 listen to see what we called

00:54:50.770 --> 00:54:51.080
 them.

00:54:51.080 --> 00:54:53.360
 I mean, that was the first time

00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:55.450
 I heard Daily Costs, and he

00:54:55.450 --> 00:54:57.640
 interviewed Daily Costs.

00:54:57.640 --> 00:54:58.640
 Right.

00:54:58.640 --> 00:55:00.540
 He interviewed Julie Powell

00:55:00.540 --> 00:55:01.520
 from...

00:55:01.520 --> 00:55:02.520
 Hold on a second, Dave.

00:55:02.520 --> 00:55:03.520
 My cat is freaking out.

00:55:03.520 --> 00:55:04.520
 Hold on.

00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:05.520
 I got to go.

00:55:05.520 --> 00:55:06.520
 Let the cat in.

00:55:06.520 --> 00:55:07.520
 Come here.

00:55:07.520 --> 00:55:08.520
 Come here, baby.

00:55:08.520 --> 00:55:09.520
 Come here.

00:55:09.520 --> 00:55:11.610
 Everybody wait while Adam goes

00:55:11.610 --> 00:55:13.520
 and takes care of the cat.

00:55:13.520 --> 00:55:14.520
 Come here.

00:55:14.520 --> 00:55:15.520
 Go.

00:55:15.520 --> 00:55:16.520
 Damn.

00:55:16.520 --> 00:55:18.590
 Maybe someday we should do a

00:55:18.590 --> 00:55:21.280
 trade secrets that's like 100%

00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:22.240
 domestic.

00:55:22.240 --> 00:55:23.240
 Oh, I can't hear you.

00:55:23.240 --> 00:55:24.240
 We have wireless microphones.

00:55:24.240 --> 00:55:26.060
 Yeah, I'm back, but no wireless

00:55:26.060 --> 00:55:27.040
 speakers yet.

00:55:27.040 --> 00:55:28.790
 Okay, so I was just telling the

00:55:28.790 --> 00:55:30.350
 people about how someday we

00:55:30.350 --> 00:55:32.200
 ought to do the domestic trade

00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:35.000
 secrets where basically all we

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:37.530
 do is just clean the house and

00:55:37.530 --> 00:55:39.280
 flush the floor.

00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:40.280
 Reality radio.

00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.210
 Maybe you can leave it running

00:55:42.210 --> 00:55:43.720
 while I go shopping.

00:55:43.720 --> 00:55:46.520
 How incredibly exciting.

00:55:46.520 --> 00:55:48.720
 Oh my God.

00:55:48.720 --> 00:55:50.400
 It's the boner cast.

00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:51.400
 Lovely.

00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:53.330
 So, yeah, I had dinner with

00:55:53.330 --> 00:55:54.600
 Steve Gilmore.

00:55:54.600 --> 00:55:55.210
 That's one thing I wanted to

00:55:55.210 --> 00:55:55.600
 tell you about.

00:55:55.600 --> 00:55:56.600
 Last night.

00:55:56.600 --> 00:55:57.600
 Or the night before.

00:55:57.600 --> 00:55:58.600
 No, the night before.

00:55:58.600 --> 00:55:59.600
 It was the night before.

00:55:59.600 --> 00:56:00.880
 It was the night before, yeah.

00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:03.080
 And he said...

00:56:03.080 --> 00:56:04.460
 Can't wait to meet him in the

00:56:04.460 --> 00:56:05.080
 blogger.

00:56:05.080 --> 00:56:06.080
 A comedy channel.

00:56:06.080 --> 00:56:06.660
 Yeah, I asked him if he had

00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:07.080
 ever met you.

00:56:07.080 --> 00:56:09.080
 He said he hadn't.

00:56:09.080 --> 00:56:10.700
 And he says what we're doing is

00:56:10.700 --> 00:56:11.920
 a comedy show here.

00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:13.230
 Oh, then we can get a listing

00:56:13.230 --> 00:56:14.480
 under the comedy note in the

00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:16.120
 directory, which is maintained

00:56:16.120 --> 00:56:18.040
 by someone else, so I'll have

00:56:18.040 --> 00:56:19.360
 to submit a link.

00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:20.210
 You'll have to get down on your

00:56:20.210 --> 00:56:20.560
 hands.

00:56:20.560 --> 00:56:21.560
 I will.

00:56:21.560 --> 00:56:22.850
 Please add us to your comedy

00:56:22.850 --> 00:56:23.560
 directory.

00:56:23.560 --> 00:56:24.560
 Please, please, please.

00:56:24.560 --> 00:56:25.560
 No, please.

00:56:25.560 --> 00:56:27.790
 And buy flowers and tell them

00:56:27.790 --> 00:56:29.760
 how much you love them.

00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:30.760
 The way it should be.

00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:31.760
 Or whatever.

00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:32.760
 I don't know.

00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:33.760
 Send flowers.

00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:35.760
 Tell them that you really care.

00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.850
 I love you and I love it and I

00:56:37.850 --> 00:56:39.160
 really care.

00:56:39.160 --> 00:56:40.160
 Right.

00:56:40.160 --> 00:56:41.160
 So what else does Steve's...

00:56:41.160 --> 00:56:42.630
 I can't wait to meet Steve

00:56:42.630 --> 00:56:44.280
 because he's been such a

00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:45.840
 tremendous driving force and at

00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:45.920
 the

00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:47.530
 end of every single Gilmore

00:56:47.530 --> 00:56:49.210
 gang boy, if he doesn't come

00:56:49.210 --> 00:56:50.960
 out and just plug podcasting

00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:52.240
 some more.

00:56:52.240 --> 00:56:53.550
 It was really great the way I

00:56:53.550 --> 00:56:55.040
 was listening to the interview

00:56:55.040 --> 00:56:56.560
 with Kim Kulesi and...

00:56:56.560 --> 00:56:57.560
 Kulesi.

00:56:57.560 --> 00:56:59.560
 I can say, in pronunciation.

00:56:59.560 --> 00:57:00.560
 Kulesi.

00:57:00.560 --> 00:57:02.450
 And, you know, I wanted them to

00:57:02.450 --> 00:57:04.060
 ask her a question that they

00:57:04.060 --> 00:57:05.730
 didn't ask, you know, because

00:57:05.730 --> 00:57:05.800
 she

00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:06.460
 was always talking about

00:57:06.460 --> 00:57:06.800
 walking.

00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:07.600
 I don't know if you listened to

00:57:07.600 --> 00:57:08.120
 the whole thing.

00:57:08.120 --> 00:57:08.880
 Yeah, I listened to the whole

00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:09.120
 thing.

00:57:09.120 --> 00:57:10.620
 It was extremely difficult at

00:57:10.620 --> 00:57:11.120
 times.

00:57:11.120 --> 00:57:12.120
 Yeah.

00:57:12.120 --> 00:57:14.120
 Why was it difficult?

00:57:14.120 --> 00:57:15.680
 Well, because I got the idea,

00:57:15.680 --> 00:57:17.520
 you know, and I just hear...

00:57:17.520 --> 00:57:18.800
 I hear a lot of marketing speak

00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:19.560
 after a while.

00:57:19.560 --> 00:57:20.550
 You know, I just get tired of

00:57:20.550 --> 00:57:20.800
 it.

00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:21.800
 You know, I get it.

00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:22.800
 You know, I get it.

00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:24.030
 You're providing service to

00:57:24.030 --> 00:57:25.400
 open source, you know, stacks

00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:26.360
 that you'll sell.

00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:27.360
 I get it.

00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.360
 It's great.

00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:29.010
 You know, there's companies

00:57:29.010 --> 00:57:29.360
 doing that.

00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:30.280
 There's going to be more and

00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:31.240
 this is probably going to be a

00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.960
 really good one.

00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:33.560
 Well, there's a geek fasc

00:57:33.560 --> 00:57:34.640
ination with Kim.

00:57:34.640 --> 00:57:35.640
 You've got to understand.

00:57:35.640 --> 00:57:36.680
 She can really talk about

00:57:36.680 --> 00:57:37.640
 anything she wants.

00:57:37.640 --> 00:57:38.640
 She's cute.

00:57:38.640 --> 00:57:39.640
 Yeah.

00:57:39.640 --> 00:57:40.350
 And then the guys will go, "Oh,

00:57:40.350 --> 00:57:40.640
 really?

00:57:40.640 --> 00:57:41.640
 Oh, that's fascinating."

00:57:41.640 --> 00:57:42.640
 That's what they want to hear.

00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:43.640
 They want to hear.

00:57:43.640 --> 00:57:44.640
 Kim, this is great.

00:57:44.640 --> 00:57:45.640
 You're right.

00:57:45.640 --> 00:57:46.640
 The kill one.

00:57:46.640 --> 00:57:47.350
 All those guys were sitting

00:57:47.350 --> 00:57:47.640
 there.

00:57:47.640 --> 00:57:48.000
 I thought it was phones ringing

00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:48.310
, but no, it was boing, boing,

00:57:48.310 --> 00:57:48.640
 boing, boing.

00:57:48.640 --> 00:57:49.160
 And they just wanted to know

00:57:49.160 --> 00:57:49.640
 what's on her mind.

00:57:49.640 --> 00:57:50.410
 And at the end, it was really

00:57:50.410 --> 00:57:50.640
 cool.

00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:54.010
 I thought there was a really

00:57:54.010 --> 00:57:58.000
 great moment in there where, at

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:01.640
 the end, you know, because

00:58:01.640 --> 00:58:04.130
 she apparently had given a

00:58:04.130 --> 00:58:07.130
 speech at this invitation only

00:58:07.130 --> 00:58:10.870
 $2,400 VC conference on blog

00:58:10.870 --> 00:58:11.640
ging,

00:58:11.640 --> 00:58:12.960
 which by the way is like a

00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:14.630
 Republican conference on the

00:58:14.630 --> 00:58:15.640
 environment.

00:58:15.640 --> 00:58:16.780
 Yeah, I read that quote on

00:58:16.780 --> 00:58:17.640
 scripting news.

00:58:17.640 --> 00:58:18.640
 That was funny.

00:58:18.640 --> 00:58:19.640
 It's gotten a lot of play.

00:58:19.640 --> 00:58:20.640
 Of course.

00:58:20.640 --> 00:58:22.390
 I actually got a response from

00:58:22.390 --> 00:58:24.100
 a venture capitalist on that

00:58:24.100 --> 00:58:25.640
 and a friend of mine, Hank

00:58:25.640 --> 00:58:26.640
 Barry, and

00:58:26.640 --> 00:58:28.200
 the conversation turned in very

00:58:28.200 --> 00:58:29.640
 interesting directions.

00:58:29.640 --> 00:58:31.640
 Hank's a really good guy.

00:58:31.640 --> 00:58:32.640
 He came out and visited us.

00:58:32.640 --> 00:58:34.660
 Anyway, at the end, they asked,

00:58:34.660 --> 00:58:36.770
 so Kim's speech was, apparently

00:58:36.770 --> 00:58:38.640
, was a lot about, you know,

00:58:38.640 --> 00:58:40.440
 podcasting and blogging and RSS

00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:41.850
 and all the things that we

00:58:41.850 --> 00:58:43.640
 think are so cool, you know,

00:58:43.640 --> 00:58:44.730
 which don't seem to have

00:58:44.730 --> 00:58:46.240
 anything to do with what you're

00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:46.640
 doing.

00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:47.640
 With a stack.

00:58:47.640 --> 00:58:48.640
 An open source stack.

00:58:48.640 --> 00:58:49.640
 Right.

00:58:49.640 --> 00:58:50.640
 With a stack.

00:58:50.640 --> 00:58:51.640
 Well, yeah.

00:58:51.640 --> 00:58:52.640
 Stack casting.

00:58:52.640 --> 00:58:53.270
 We have a new one, ladies and

00:58:53.270 --> 00:58:53.640
 gentlemen.

00:58:53.640 --> 00:58:54.240
 We're going to bring you to the

00:58:54.240 --> 00:58:54.640
 next episode.

00:58:54.640 --> 00:58:55.270
 We have a new one, ladies and

00:58:55.270 --> 00:58:55.640
 gentlemen.

00:58:55.640 --> 00:58:57.040
 We're going to bring you stack

00:58:57.040 --> 00:58:58.640
 casting by the end of the year.

00:58:58.640 --> 00:58:59.640
 Pretty soon.

00:58:59.640 --> 00:59:00.640
 Yeah.

00:59:00.640 --> 00:59:02.640
 It's in the queue right now.

00:59:02.640 --> 00:59:04.670
 So they asked her about that

00:59:04.670 --> 00:59:06.640
 and then she just lit up.

00:59:06.640 --> 00:59:07.510
 It's like, oh, this is all the

00:59:07.510 --> 00:59:08.330
 cool shit, blah, blah, blah,

00:59:08.330 --> 00:59:08.640
 blah.

00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:10.640
 And you go, okay, that's cool.

00:59:10.640 --> 00:59:11.640
 How did that happen?

00:59:11.640 --> 00:59:12.330
 Why isn't she doing all that

00:59:12.330 --> 00:59:12.640
 stuff?

00:59:12.640 --> 00:59:13.640
 I don't know.

00:59:13.640 --> 00:59:14.640
 She should be.

00:59:14.640 --> 00:59:15.860
 It's probably, it's a venture

00:59:15.860 --> 00:59:16.640
 capital thing.

00:59:16.640 --> 00:59:18.790
 It's another one of those where

00:59:18.790 --> 00:59:20.000
 probably they had a CEO for

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.640
 this company, the Kleiner Per

00:59:21.640 --> 00:59:21.640
kins

00:59:21.640 --> 00:59:22.640
 guys, and something happened.

00:59:22.640 --> 00:59:23.640
 He blew up.

00:59:23.640 --> 00:59:24.640
 He blew up.

00:59:24.640 --> 00:59:25.640
 He blew up.

00:59:25.640 --> 00:59:27.720
 Or the entrepreneur said he

00:59:27.720 --> 00:59:29.400
 could be the CEO and they

00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:31.640
 eventually wore him down and

00:59:31.640 --> 00:59:31.640
 convinced

00:59:31.640 --> 00:59:32.640
 him he couldn't.

00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:35.060
 And is Kim like the standby CEO

00:59:35.060 --> 00:59:37.190
 and residents of a venture

00:59:37.190 --> 00:59:38.640
 capital firm?

00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:40.520
 Yeah, it's not the best standby

00:59:40.520 --> 00:59:40.640
.

00:59:40.640 --> 00:59:42.640
 They have a stable of them.

00:59:42.640 --> 00:59:44.640
 It's the way the system works.

00:59:44.640 --> 00:59:46.400
 Basically they move you out of

00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:48.080
 one company and then you get a

00:59:48.080 --> 00:59:49.640
 hang out until, you know,

00:59:49.640 --> 00:59:50.810
 and they keep showing you

00:59:50.810 --> 00:59:52.370
 companies until you go, okay, I

00:59:52.370 --> 00:59:53.640
 like that one and they put

00:59:53.640 --> 00:59:54.640
 you in a CEO of that one.

00:59:54.640 --> 00:59:56.220
 Oh, hey Dave, hey Dave, hey

00:59:56.220 --> 00:59:57.760
 Dave, let's start a company and

00:59:57.760 --> 00:59:59.640
 then let venture capitalists

00:59:59.640 --> 01:00:00.640
 take us out.

01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:01.640
 Real quick.

01:00:01.640 --> 01:00:03.640
 Oh, I actually did that one.

01:00:03.640 --> 01:00:04.640
 Me too.

01:00:04.640 --> 01:00:05.920
 I've been living off the

01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:07.640
 proceeds ever, ever since.

01:00:07.640 --> 01:00:09.640
 Yeah, let's start something.

01:00:09.640 --> 01:00:11.580
 Yeah, I was, shh, shh, shh, don

01:00:11.580 --> 01:00:12.640
't tell anyone.

01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:13.640
 That's a secret.

01:00:13.640 --> 01:00:14.640
 That's a secret.

01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:15.640
 It's a secret.

01:00:15.640 --> 01:00:18.150
 That was funny because I heard,

01:00:18.150 --> 01:00:20.150
 I don't know if Steve was at

01:00:20.150 --> 01:00:22.640
 that dinner, but he certainly

01:00:22.640 --> 01:00:24.230
 did call on her at the end of

01:00:24.230 --> 01:00:26.160
 the Gilmore Gang about podcast

01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:26.640
ing.

01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:27.640
 Yeah.

01:00:27.640 --> 01:00:29.640
 That was kind of cool.

01:00:29.640 --> 01:00:30.550
 And he didn't really attack her

01:00:30.550 --> 01:00:30.640
.

01:00:30.640 --> 01:00:31.790
 He had lots of room there,

01:00:31.790 --> 01:00:32.640
 which was nice.

01:00:32.640 --> 01:00:33.640
 Oh, totally.

01:00:33.640 --> 01:00:35.800
 The question he should ask is

01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:37.640
 where's your lock in?

01:00:37.640 --> 01:00:38.640
 Where's your lock in?

01:00:38.640 --> 01:00:39.900
 She was talking about everybody

01:00:39.900 --> 01:00:40.640
 else's lock in.

01:00:40.640 --> 01:00:42.430
 I was like saying, okay, he has

01:00:42.430 --> 01:00:43.640
 dirty underwear.

01:00:43.640 --> 01:00:44.640
 He has dirty underwear.

01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:46.430
 Okay, what about your underwear

01:00:46.430 --> 01:00:46.640
?

01:00:46.640 --> 01:00:48.640
 She's got a dirty stack.

01:00:48.640 --> 01:00:49.640
 Yeah.

01:00:49.640 --> 01:00:50.640
 She's stacked.

01:00:50.640 --> 01:00:51.640
 I'm not going there.

01:00:51.640 --> 01:00:52.640
 I'm sorry.

01:00:52.640 --> 01:00:53.830
 Don't you have to put a

01:00:53.830 --> 01:00:55.630
 disclaimer in somewhere here,

01:00:55.630 --> 01:00:56.640
 Mr. Weiner?

01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:58.640
 No, no, no, no.

01:00:58.640 --> 01:01:01.640
 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:01:01.640 --> 01:01:02.640
 All right, on that note.

01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:04.640
 That was a long time ago.

01:01:04.640 --> 01:01:05.640
 On that note.

01:01:05.640 --> 01:01:07.920
 And I have, you know, I have,

01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:10.020
 you want to listen to something

01:01:10.020 --> 01:01:11.640
 or you want to end it?

01:01:11.640 --> 01:01:12.640
 We're about an hour into this.

01:01:12.640 --> 01:01:13.640
 What do you want to do?

01:01:13.640 --> 01:01:14.640
 What do you have?

01:01:14.640 --> 01:01:16.530
 Well, it's about, let me see

01:01:16.530 --> 01:01:17.640
 how long it is.

01:01:17.640 --> 01:01:18.260
 It's kind of long, but it's

01:01:18.260 --> 01:01:18.640
 really good.

01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.640
 It's six minutes.

01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:21.400
 It's, I plugged this yesterday

01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:23.040
 on the source code, the truth

01:01:23.040 --> 01:01:24.640
 out overview from truth out.org

01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:24.640
.

01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:26.790
 This guy has been, he was doing

01:01:26.790 --> 01:01:28.780
 his own podcast and it's just

01:01:28.780 --> 01:01:29.640
 so good.

01:01:29.640 --> 01:01:30.640
 It's just, I mean, this guy.

01:01:30.640 --> 01:01:31.380
 Well, then you have to play

01:01:31.380 --> 01:01:31.640
 this.

01:01:31.640 --> 01:01:32.640
 It's so good.

01:01:32.640 --> 01:01:33.640
 I'll just play it.

01:01:33.640 --> 01:01:34.640
 I'll play a little bit of it.

01:01:34.640 --> 01:01:35.690
 I'll play about, I want to play

01:01:35.690 --> 01:01:36.550
 the beginning and about a

01:01:36.550 --> 01:01:37.640
 minute of what he's doing.

01:01:37.640 --> 01:01:38.970
 You'll get the idea pretty

01:01:38.970 --> 01:01:39.640
 quickly.

01:01:39.640 --> 01:01:40.640
 All right.

01:01:40.640 --> 01:01:41.640
 Okay.

01:01:41.640 --> 01:02:10.640
 And you should subscribe too.

01:02:10.640 --> 01:02:11.640
 Good evening.

01:02:11.640 --> 01:02:15.370
 This is William Rivers Piff and

01:02:15.370 --> 01:02:18.950
 this is the truth out overview

01:02:18.950 --> 01:02:22.640
 for Friday, October 8th,

01:02:22.640 --> 01:02:23.640
 2004.

01:02:23.640 --> 01:02:24.920
 Our lead for today comes from

01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:26.250
 the editorial board of the Dem

01:02:26.250 --> 01:02:27.560
orns Register and is titled

01:02:27.560 --> 01:02:29.400
 Orwell Goes to War.

01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:31.240
 The essay reads in part as

01:02:31.240 --> 01:02:32.280
 follows.

01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:33.790
 We live in Orwell in times

01:02:33.790 --> 01:02:35.590
 where obvious falsehoods are

01:02:35.590 --> 01:02:37.600
 asserted brazenly as truth.

01:02:37.600 --> 01:02:39.100
 The day after the final report

01:02:39.100 --> 01:02:40.480
 of the Iraq survey group

01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:41.620
 confirmed that Iraq had no

01:02:41.620 --> 01:02:42.080
 weapons

01:02:42.080 --> 01:02:43.400
 of mass destruction and no

01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:45.010
 active programs to produce them

01:02:45.010 --> 01:02:46.560
, Vice President Dick Cheney

01:02:46.560 --> 01:02:48.320
 blithely asserted that the

01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:50.040
 report justified the invasion

01:02:50.040 --> 01:02:51.080
 of Iraq.

01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:52.770
 No Mr. Vice President, the

01:02:52.770 --> 01:02:54.350
 report shattered the last forl

01:02:54.350 --> 01:02:55.620
orn hope that the war was

01:02:55.620 --> 01:02:56.480
 necessary.

01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:58.100
 It established that Iraq posed

01:02:58.100 --> 01:02:59.630
 no threat to the United States

01:02:59.630 --> 01:03:01.520
 before the 2003 invasion

01:03:01.520 --> 01:03:03.270
 or any time in the foreseeable

01:03:03.270 --> 01:03:03.920
 future.

01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:05.480
 You get the idea, right?

01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:06.480
 Yep.

01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:08.330
 Yeah, it's really, really good

01:03:08.330 --> 01:03:08.920
 stuff.

01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:10.610
 And he reads his own essays and

01:03:10.610 --> 01:03:12.320
 other newspaper articles you

01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:13.880
 might not come across.

01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:16.340
 It's a podcast but it's just

01:03:16.340 --> 01:03:17.920
 like a weblog.

01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:19.040
 He's routing information.

01:03:19.040 --> 01:03:19.990
 All these people are routing

01:03:19.990 --> 01:03:20.800
 information around.

01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:22.350
 I just routed information by

01:03:22.350 --> 01:03:23.320
 playing this.

01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:24.320
 This is good.

01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:25.320
 This is just good stuff.

01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:28.820
 He's a good feed to subscribe

01:03:28.820 --> 01:03:29.600
 to.

01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:30.600
 What's the feed?

01:03:30.600 --> 01:03:33.440
 Where is it?

01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:37.520
 It's in the podcast directory.

01:03:37.520 --> 01:03:38.520
 That's all you need to know.

01:03:38.520 --> 01:03:40.840
 Yeah, on iPodder.org.

01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:41.840
 It's a truth out.

01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:43.090
 A truth out overview is what it

01:03:43.090 --> 01:03:43.680
's called.

01:03:43.680 --> 01:03:44.730
 So you should be able to find

01:03:44.730 --> 01:03:45.000
 it.

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:46.000
 That's what we need.

01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:46.580
 We need to be able to search

01:03:46.580 --> 01:03:47.180
 the directory tree really

01:03:47.180 --> 01:03:47.520
 quickly.

01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:48.980
 We've got to do all kinds of

01:03:48.980 --> 01:03:50.160
 stuff like that.

01:03:50.160 --> 01:03:51.160
 Is that possible?

01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:52.160
 Is it distributed?

01:03:52.160 --> 01:03:54.160
 Does that work?

01:03:54.160 --> 01:03:56.480
 Oh, anything works.

01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:57.730
 You know, we've got to, well

01:03:57.730 --> 01:03:58.600
 here's the deal.

01:03:58.600 --> 01:04:00.210
 Then we've got to talk to the

01:04:00.210 --> 01:04:02.050
 search entities and get them to

01:04:02.050 --> 01:04:03.280
 crawl that tree.

01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:05.080
 You know, and then, okay, that

01:04:05.080 --> 01:04:06.240
's step number one.

01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:07.200
 I'm glad we got a chance to do

01:04:07.200 --> 01:04:07.560
 this.

01:04:07.560 --> 01:04:08.560
 That's step number one.

01:04:08.560 --> 01:04:10.000
 Once they've crawled it, when

01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:11.490
 they find one, they should just

01:04:11.490 --> 01:04:13.160
 display it like a directory.

01:04:13.160 --> 01:04:14.160
 Yeah, done.

01:04:14.160 --> 01:04:15.160
 You're done.

01:04:15.160 --> 01:04:16.160
 You're done.

01:04:16.160 --> 01:04:17.600
 It's so cool.

01:04:17.600 --> 01:04:20.140
 We've now completely disinter

01:04:20.140 --> 01:04:21.760
mediated Yahoo.

01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:23.020
 And God knows they need to be

01:04:23.020 --> 01:04:24.120
 disintermediated.

01:04:24.120 --> 01:04:26.980
 Even they would agree with that

01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:27.360
.

01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:28.360
 By now.

01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:29.360
 Probably not.

01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:30.720
 Well, but then who cares what

01:04:30.720 --> 01:04:31.800
 they think, right?

01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:32.800
 I don't care.

01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:34.560
 I don't care either.

01:04:34.560 --> 01:04:35.560
 I don't care.

01:04:35.560 --> 01:04:37.560
 Jeremy Zawadny takes that.

01:04:37.560 --> 01:04:41.520
 He doesn't care what I think.

01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:42.520
 Can you believe that guy?

01:04:42.520 --> 01:04:44.280
 I mean, basically he goes and

01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:45.960
 asks Tim O'Reilly whether he

01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:48.080
 has any conflicts of interest.

01:04:48.080 --> 01:04:49.430
 Like, don't you own Google

01:04:49.430 --> 01:04:50.240
 stock, Tim?

01:04:50.240 --> 01:04:52.140
 And of course, Tim did own

01:04:52.140 --> 01:04:54.210
 Google stock and it was a good

01:04:54.210 --> 01:04:55.680
 question to ask.

01:04:55.680 --> 01:04:57.180
 And so I quoted him asking the

01:04:57.180 --> 01:04:57.800
 question.

01:04:57.800 --> 01:04:59.880
 What was that about a year ago?

01:04:59.880 --> 01:05:03.400
 No, it wasn't that long ago.

01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:04.400
 I should.

01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:06.330
 It's about time somebody had

01:05:06.330 --> 01:05:08.100
 the balls to ask O'Reilly that

01:05:08.100 --> 01:05:09.000
 question.

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:10.000
 What's the question?

01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:11.120
 Explain the situation because I

01:05:11.120 --> 01:05:12.400
 know what you're talking about.

01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:13.820
 Okay, well what happened was

01:05:13.820 --> 01:05:15.270
 that Tim O'Reilly, Google was

01:05:15.270 --> 01:05:16.400
 getting a lot of heat for

01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:17.000
 something

01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:18.000
 that they did.

01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:20.000
 I don't remember what it was.

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:21.840
 They get a lot of heat.

01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:23.410
 They're a big company and they

01:05:23.410 --> 01:05:25.120
're in a leadership position and

01:05:25.120 --> 01:05:26.400
 heat is a good thing.

01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:27.400
 It was Gmail.

01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:29.600
 It was about Gmail, wasn't it?

01:05:29.600 --> 01:05:31.240
 Right, it was the privacy

01:05:31.240 --> 01:05:31.920
 issues.

01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:33.530
 And the privacy issues, and I

01:05:33.530 --> 01:05:35.150
 think I had written this, was

01:05:35.150 --> 01:05:36.560
 like there were no worse

01:05:36.560 --> 01:05:38.050
 than anybody else and come on,

01:05:38.050 --> 01:05:38.760
 get a life.

01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:40.140
 This isn't really a privacy

01:05:40.140 --> 01:05:40.640
 issue.

01:05:40.640 --> 01:05:41.640
 But people were freaking out.

01:05:41.640 --> 01:05:43.690
 In the state of California, it

01:05:43.690 --> 01:05:45.560
 was going to pass the law.

01:05:45.560 --> 01:05:46.400
 Making what they were doing

01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:46.800
 illegal.

01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:48.560
 It was just so ridiculous.

01:05:48.560 --> 01:05:50.120
 So Tim O'Reilly comes along and

01:05:50.120 --> 01:05:51.770
 writes a thing basically saying

01:05:51.770 --> 01:05:53.450
 this is all a bunch of bullshit

01:05:53.450 --> 01:05:53.920
.

01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:56.560
 And you can't hold them.

01:05:56.560 --> 01:05:58.320
 But he went way over the line.

01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:59.320
 I thought.

01:05:59.320 --> 01:06:00.320
 I don't get what he said.

01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:01.580
 But some of the things he said

01:06:01.580 --> 01:06:02.970
 were like, come on, don't go so

01:06:02.970 --> 01:06:03.440
 far.

01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:05.760
 Don't get so crazy about Google

01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:05.800
.

01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:08.070
 We've got to be realistic about

01:06:08.070 --> 01:06:08.760
 them.

01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:12.300
 And what Jeremy is a Wadney who

01:06:12.300 --> 01:06:14.280
 works at Yahoo.

01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:15.780
 His what was making him sore,

01:06:15.780 --> 01:06:17.280
 and you can see this happening

01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:19.280
 over and over, is that Yahoo,

01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:20.520
 they feel fair amount of

01:06:20.520 --> 01:06:22.150
 resentment for Google because

01:06:22.150 --> 01:06:23.670
 they get credit for doing the

01:06:23.670 --> 01:06:24.080
 things

01:06:24.080 --> 01:06:25.920
 that Yahoo did first.

01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:27.130
 They get credit for doing it

01:06:27.130 --> 01:06:27.520
 first.

01:06:27.520 --> 01:06:28.590
 Everybody says, oh Google is so

01:06:28.590 --> 01:06:29.160
 innovative.

01:06:29.160 --> 01:06:30.150
 But they're actually just

01:06:30.150 --> 01:06:30.760
 copying Yahoo.

01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:31.760
 That's the way it goes.

01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:32.760
 So he comes.

01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:33.760
 Well, it does.

01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:34.760
 It does.

01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:35.760
 I hate that.

01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:36.860
 And I support Zaladney in that

01:06:36.860 --> 01:06:37.160
 one.

01:06:37.160 --> 01:06:38.570
 I think that we ought to know

01:06:38.570 --> 01:06:39.920
 who did the innovation.

01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:41.130
 Let's get grounded in the truth

01:06:41.130 --> 01:06:41.320
.

01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.110
 So Zaladney asks the question,

01:06:43.110 --> 01:06:44.930
 hey Tim O'Reilly, don't you own

01:06:44.930 --> 01:06:46.360
 a lot of Google stock?

01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:48.220
 But you did disclose when you

01:06:48.220 --> 01:06:49.200
 wrote that.

01:06:49.200 --> 01:06:51.140
 And of course, you kind of do

01:06:51.140 --> 01:06:52.920
 need to disclose that.

01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:54.950
 Or at least when somebody asks,

01:06:54.950 --> 01:06:56.880
 you should answer, right?

01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:58.360
 Instead Tim goes blah, blah,

01:06:58.360 --> 01:06:59.830
 blah, blah, blah, and never

01:06:59.830 --> 01:07:01.280
 really answers the question

01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:02.760
 except he kind of says, yeah, I

01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:03.080
 do.

01:07:03.080 --> 01:07:04.270
 But it's sort of like that

01:07:04.270 --> 01:07:05.760
 comes in paragraph eight.

01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:07.440
 But first he has to say why the

01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:09.120
 question isn't a fair one and

01:07:09.120 --> 01:07:10.960
 how blah, blah, whatever.

01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:13.200
 Tim O'Reilly, usual, long,

01:07:13.200 --> 01:07:15.450
 windy, very sort of like, I'm

01:07:15.450 --> 01:07:17.760
 Mr. Cool and it's perfect and

01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:18.760
 clean.

01:07:18.760 --> 01:07:20.160
 Well, there goes my invitation

01:07:20.160 --> 01:07:21.200
 to food camp, Dave.

01:07:21.200 --> 01:07:22.200
 Thanks.

01:07:22.200 --> 01:07:23.300
 No, that goes my invitation to

01:07:23.300 --> 01:07:23.840
 food camp.

01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:25.220
 You can just stroke him any way

01:07:25.220 --> 01:07:25.720
 you want.

01:07:25.720 --> 01:07:27.980
 So anyway, to take a long story

01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:30.330
, very, very long, tediously

01:07:30.330 --> 01:07:31.040
 long.

01:07:31.040 --> 01:07:32.040
 I quoted Zaladney.

01:07:32.040 --> 01:07:33.600
 I said, well, thank you.

01:07:33.600 --> 01:07:34.600
 I didn't say anything.

01:07:34.600 --> 01:07:36.640
 I just did Zaladney, Colin.

01:07:36.640 --> 01:07:38.120
 How much stock does Tim own?

01:07:38.120 --> 01:07:39.120
 Google stock does Tim own.

01:07:39.120 --> 01:07:40.900
 And all of a sudden, a fucking

01:07:40.900 --> 01:07:42.750
 lame, like, I'm the bad guy,

01:07:42.750 --> 01:07:43.440
 right?

01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:45.060
 They always kill the messenger,

01:07:45.060 --> 01:07:45.520
 Dave.

01:07:45.520 --> 01:07:46.520
 They always kill the messenger.

01:07:46.520 --> 01:07:47.520
 No, I'm not the messenger.

01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:48.520
 Zaladney's the messenger.

01:07:48.520 --> 01:07:49.490
 But you want to know the

01:07:49.490 --> 01:07:50.750
 problem is Zaladney's an O'Re

01:07:50.750 --> 01:07:51.520
illy author.

01:07:51.520 --> 01:07:55.600
 Oh, the small detail.

01:07:55.600 --> 01:07:56.980
 They said, well, were you

01:07:56.980 --> 01:07:58.550
 expecting a royalty check this

01:07:58.550 --> 01:07:59.040
 week?

01:07:59.040 --> 01:08:01.890
 The tech industry is worse than

01:08:01.890 --> 01:08:04.320
 entertainment, Dave.

01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:06.100
 The tech industry is just

01:08:06.100 --> 01:08:07.240
 fucking bad.

01:08:07.240 --> 01:08:08.320
 So we got a cheater chick

01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:09.240
 entertainment.

01:08:09.240 --> 01:08:10.240
 Yeah.

01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:11.960
 Well, you don't get it.

01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:13.960
 We don't have no Kim.

01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:15.440
 We're catching up quickly.

01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:16.440
 You have plenty of Kims.

01:08:16.440 --> 01:08:17.440
 What are you talking about?

01:08:17.440 --> 01:08:18.440
 Yeah, no.

01:08:18.440 --> 01:08:22.040
 All of them.

01:08:22.040 --> 01:08:23.370
 What do you say we hit the

01:08:23.370 --> 01:08:24.980
 theme music at the fuck out of

01:08:24.980 --> 01:08:25.600
 here?

01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:26.720
 I think it's time to get the

01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:27.600
 fuck out of here.

01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:29.520
 Because we got to keep our

01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:31.690
 standing in the comedy listing

01:08:31.690 --> 01:08:32.560
 on the director.

01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:34.720
 It can't become boring.

01:08:34.720 --> 01:08:36.960
 All right, Dave, thanks, buddy.

01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:37.960
 Hey, Adam.

01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:38.960
 Have fun.

01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:39.960
 Okay.

01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:42.830
 It's davidscripting.com, adam@

01:08:42.830 --> 01:08:44.200
curry.com.

01:08:44.200 --> 01:08:48.000
 This is tradesecrets@secrets.s

01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:50.280
cripting.com.

01:08:50.280 --> 01:08:51.280
 We'll talk to y'all soon.

01:08:51.280 --> 01:08:52.280
 Bye.

01:08:52.280 --> 01:08:53.280
 Say bye, Dave.

01:08:53.280 --> 01:08:54.280
 Bye-bye.

01:08:54.280 --> 01:08:55.280
 See you later.

01:08:55.280 --> 01:08:56.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:08:56.280 --> 01:08:57.280
 See you later.

01:08:57.280 --> 01:08:58.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:08:58.280 --> 01:08:59.280
 See you later.

01:08:59.280 --> 01:09:00.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:09:00.280 --> 01:09:01.280
 See you later.

01:09:01.280 --> 01:09:02.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:09:02.280 --> 01:09:03.280
 See you later.

01:09:03.280 --> 01:09:04.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:09:04.280 --> 01:09:05.280
 See you later.

01:09:05.280 --> 01:09:06.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:09:06.280 --> 01:09:07.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:09:07.280 --> 01:09:08.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.

01:09:08.280 --> 01:09:09.280
 See you later.

01:09:09.280 --> 01:09:10.280
 Bye-bye, Dave.