Hey, good afternoon, good
morning, or good evening,
depending on where you are.
Welcome to Trade Secrets.
I'm Adam Curry in Belgium at
the Castle.
Dave Weiner at 5 a.m. in
Seattle.
You're such a trooper, Dave.
You're such a man.
I hardly even get a chance to
open my eyes and Adam from the
line.
Hey, Dave, let's do a trade
secrets.
Yeah, well, it's so cool
because...
Alright, let's do it.
Let's do it.
You gotta do it.
The thing is, we talk and then
we jabber a little bit and then
we're done.
And then it's like, "Wanna do a
show?"
No, I got nothing left to say.
So I got to catch up early.
Yeah, I told you, you know,
yeah.
Well, it's good to do one.
We haven't done a trade secrets
since podcasting became all the
rage.
Right, which was last week.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
It's been amazing.
How was your trip?
You got back from San Francisco
yesterday?
Yeah, it was really an easy
trip.
I found a hotel in just the
perfect location.
It's easy into San Francisco,
easy down to the peninsula so I
can get to Palo Alto.
And I spent a lot of time at
Stanford working out the
details.
I got a whole bunch of things
settled for BloggerCon 3, which
is on, as you know, November
6th.
Yeah.
We found room for everybody who
was on the waitlist.
Really?
That's cool.
Yeah, it juggled a lot of
things.
Well, I kind of figured at some
point that when the
registration slowed down, that,
you
know, when they were really
raging, I had to put the wait
list on because I didn't know
how high it was going to go.
And we had to leave room for
Stanford people because one of
their goals was that they be
participating in BloggerCon.
So all things put together, it
was said, "Okay, let's cut it
off at 250 because we know we
can do that."
That was a lot bigger than 250
to me.
We're officially at 421 right
now.
And that's pushing it because
at the same time we're 421, we
're not that high in terms
of dollars.
And we're going to need to feed
people and provide them refresh
ments and mundane stuff
like we have to pay Stanford to
clean the rooms and we have to
get Wi-Fi, right?
Yeah, we've got to get Wi-Fi.
And we have a live conference
without Wi-Fi.
And the webcast, which you'll
be very interested to know, we
probably talk about that
actually.
Well, we haven't talked about
the fact that Doug Kaye has
generously offered to take care
of most of it.
Well, it turns out that I don't
think that's the way it's
actually going to work.
Oh, well, this is news.
You better tell me what's
happening then.
Well, it's interesting.
I mean, I talked with Doug
before we went.
Basically Doug was on the
speakerphone at the meeting at
Stanford.
So I was there with John
Harrison, who is the AV guy at
Stanford, and Lauren Gelman,
who is with their institute for
the Internet and Society, which
is the Stanford counterpart
to Berkman Center.
And there, Lauren is like the
Stanford person who I'm working
with on this conference.
And so Doug has a stick that
really works.
Doug's IT conversations, coming
out the other end of Doug's
work is going to be like one
beautiful, in every regard, a
beautiful product, podcast,
audio, whatever you want to
call
it.
Singin' a Bob.
And MP3 in lots of different
formats, and it's going to
stream and whatever.
However, only one of his, he's
only going to livestream one of
the three concurrent sessions.
So that's problem number one,
or opportunity number one.
But all the sessions would be
recorded, right?
Pardon me?
All the sessions would be
recorded though.
All the sessions would be
recorded, but I don't see, you
know, if we can do it, I don't
see why not webcast all the
sessions too.
If we can do that.
And I want to try to do that.
Okay.
Last time we had a deal with
AdvanceNet with Jeff Jarvis,
and they had huge capacity for
webcasting.
And, you know, at the very last
minute we thought, okay, let's
ask Jeff Jarvis.
And Jeff said, yeah, and they
helped us out.
And we were doing, like, you
know, huge amounts of web
casting through his network.
So that was good.
And they also, it was really
interesting, because I had been
trying to explain to Doug
about how the hobbyist side of
this is so important, you know,
that here we are, we're
doing podcasting.
And, you know, what is podcast
ing?
But amateur radio, right?
And it's very much like blog
ging is amateur journalism,
right?
Right on.
And so, but, but Doug thinks in
terms of professional and he
thinks that, that what he's
doing
is enough and some sense it is
enough, but it's not for me.
I want to get this thing wide
open for anybody, for any, for
you and for any of your podcast
ing.
We're going to have a lot of AV
geeks there.
No shit.
Because of your podcast.
No shit.
Right.
And I'm going to tell them that
, hey, you know, well Doug's
doing a professional job
and you know, therefore, blah,
blah, blah, you know, because
that's, you know, they're
going to go, well, Dave, what
happened to the blogging
religion here?
And I'm going to go, hmm, good
point.
So, and what really convinced
me of this was that, that the
Stanford people asked me about
that after the meeting was over
.
It says, well, what about the
random people who want to, you
know, record this or whatever?
And I said, right on.
Exactly.
And that's the, that's where,
why holding these conferences
at universities is such
a good thing to do because
universities think that way.
They, they're not looking
necessarily for the maximum
polish.
And especially at a place like,
you know, Stanford Law School
and at Berkman Center.
It's a, you know, it's, it's,
it's the internet for the
people, basically.
So we're going to, we're going
to try to come up with
something where, where not only
does
Doug record and do his usual
very great job, but then it's
also going to be wide open.
There'll be a way for anybody
to tap into the audio out in
all three rooms.
Really?
They'll just have to, yeah,
well, that's what we want to do
.
And they just have to work with
us in advance.
That's going to be the
requirement.
Okay.
So how do people get in touch
with you?
If they want to, if they want
to help out and get in touch in
advance?
I'd like them to get in touch
with you.
And then you tell me what your
people, then you tell me what
they need.
I need more email.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
I was thinking about you, right
?
I think Adam is getting enough
email.
I don't get enough, the new
podcast, please add me to the
directory emails.
Adam, if you keep, if you start
whining, they're going to stop
sending it to you.
That's a little secret.
You have to say you love it.
I do.
I love it.
I fucking love it.
Now I got four other people
already working on the
directory with me.
They're making their OPML
branches and it's working.
So I'm offloading quickly.
That's on my list totally.
I was listening to that on the
plane from San Francisco to
Seattle last night.
And I was so proud of you Adam
that you totally understand and
can explain the whole concept
of these included directories.
Well that's my dream.
Now that I'm actually doing it,
I understand it and it's so
simple.
It's still a little, unless you
're using Radio User Land, I
haven't really come across
a tool that does it exactly
right that really exports OPML
perfectly.
That leads me right into my
next time on my list.
Oh wait, don't tell me I sagged
into something for you.
Damn.
Totally, perfectly.
It couldn't be better.
All right.
Hit me back.
It really couldn't be better.
Yeah, I was listening to your
daily source code last night as
I was staying on the plane
and heard you go into the story
of OPML.
But a lot of people don't know.
OPML is a very popular format
in RSS aggregators.
Because in Radio we chose to
use that as our way of listing
sets of feeds.
And Radio was pretty
influential in its early days.
So basically everybody did it
the same way.
But what people don't know is
that as you were so well
telling them is that OPML is
actually a very rich format
which can do more than that.
And it can do nested director
ies and it can do this thing
called inclusion.
And it's also the underlying
format of the radio outliner.
And here's the deal Adam.
We open sourced that code.
Oh, okay.
That's all part of Frontier.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, Radio builds out of Front
ier.
I mean that's a little secret
basically.
There's no such thing.
There's no separate code base
for Radio.
All of the C source code for
Radio was also released as open
source.
And that includes the outliner.
It includes all the OPML code.
It includes a complete TCP
stack including HTTP.
So that moving these outlines
around is something that and
providing a user interface for
editing
them is something that Radio
does so natively that it's hard
to stop it from doing it
basically.
So the same kind of thing could
be done with that that was done
with the iPodder.
We could get a project going to
create the easiest to use out
liner out of the code base
that's there.
And it would be Windows and Mac
and could of course be ported
to any platform including
Linux.
And we would have the bootstrap
for something that will be so
incredible when it actually
works.
In other words, this can go in
so far beyond, I mean I don't
want to say because podcasting
is so incredible, but it can go
beyond podcasting and into a
whole sort of knowledge tree
for
the universe.
Well, it's really exciting
because when you start a
directory and I've started many
directories
and then people send you links,
it becomes a real drag to
maintain it.
If people send you an addition
and it's not up in the same day
, people get bored, then
it's just not alive.
And by this delegation which is
also decentralization and gives
no one any real power,
certainly
not any centralized power, but
only over whatever tree they're
working on, just the offload
and you can see the
possibilities immediately.
Immediately you say, "Oh, well
duh, of course this is how this
is supposed to work."
I mean it's so simple, it
really is.
Well, it's the outline
equivalent of a link and
outlines, that's all we do is
follow the
grain of the outline and say, "
Okay, what would a link look
like in this space?"
If you go back to the outline
as we did in the 80s, this
would be the equivalent of what
we call cloning so that an item
and all of its descendants can
appear in as many places
as you want to.
They also call them file ali
ases in the Macintosh and they
call them shortcuts and windows
.
So it's the concept of a
pointer.
It's a computer science thing
that they always seem to have
mystical powers when you use
them and this is no exception.
Is that like a sin link as well
?
Pardon me?
Is that like a sin link?
I don't know what a sin link is
.
Oh, okay, that's in Unix where
you can say, "Okay, this file
path, it's a symbolic link.
It's not real, but if you point
to it, it'll take you to the
real file."
Is that the same thing?
Yeah, that sounds totally like
it.
Okay, got it.
Yeah, you see them everywhere
in the user talk scripting
language.
It's the address symbol
generator.
So pointers are like major big
deal, but having them in an
interactive product like an out
liner
where the outliner then can try
expanding one of these things
when you open it up in
your outliner.
Yeah, it's cool.
Try expanding one of your links
and see what happens.
Yeah, it's like the outliner
continues.
Yeah, it just keeps going.
You can go on as many levels
deep as you want.
Now here's something else that
people might not know is that,
"Okay, Adam, you can include
their OPML in your directory
and that will have the effect
of including their directory
in yours, but they can also
include your directory in
theirs."
Right.
So that if they think they have
, you know, this is where the
ego starts coming in, right?
And so people go, "Well, geez,
I'm not going to be subordinate
to Adam.
You know, every bit as good as
Adam and unfortunately or
fortunately or whatever, that
happens a
lot in the computer business."
That's also true.
Yeah, well, it's true, but
sometimes spalling your pride
is a good thing to do so that
it's
for the greater good.
But okay, so even if that isn't
going to happen, then what can
happen is if you've got the
master directory for the pod
space, then include, they can
include your directory in
theirs because you have an OPML
rendition of yours.
And when they do that, when
they do that, they will also be
including everything that
you included.
So there's nobody, it's just
like saying nobody has the top
homepage on the web, right?
Nobody has the top homepage
directory and this is a major,
major thing because if this
thing really catches on, then
we can get directories on every
subject and we can also get two
or three directories on every
subject.
Yeah, it's amazing this really
hasn't happened for web logs,
you know, that people who have
web logs should have director
ies.
You know what, it was the order
in which things happened
actually was what made it not
happen
for web logs because before we
had any idea, this idea post-st
ates web logs, this outline
directory stuff came after web
logs.
Right.
And then at the time it came
online, there were already tens
of thousands of blogs and
so people had learned to accept
complete chaos, okay, then
Google had come along and had
been
doing a pretty good job of
indexing them.
And there were directories like
Yahoo and Google has a
directory and all kinds of
directories
with them.
I presume lots of paid
employees.
Yeah, and lots of politics.
And politics, yeah.
Yeah, lots of politics in there
.
But what was I going to say?
Yeah, it could go a lot further
than simply just for podcasting
, it could be for everything.
Because you have three versions
.
You being the daddy of the
outline, I heard you say it
about ten minutes ago, this
must
be like the ultimate dream to
have one big outline traversing
the entire universe.
Yeah.
Well, we called it the world
outline.
I mean that was when we first
put all this together, right?
It was like the worldwide web
and then there's a world
outline.
So in a sense there's one
outline but there are an
infinite number of ways of
picking
it up.
And yeah, you know, to talk
about Frontier being my life's
work, that's actually not
true.
If this thing happens, then I'm
going to hang them up, boy.
I haven't got another idea in
me like this one.
Well, it's funny because if you
look at podcasting, which of
course is built on RSS, which
is
at least a corner of your life
's work and what's happening
with the directory now, it
seems like it's exploding and I
'm just sitting here waiting and
I've even seen people write
about it.
Okay, the hype will be over in
three weeks and I'm just going
by bandwidth consumption.
Let's just make that an easy
one.
I know what you're going to say
.
So I'll just tell you how much
I'm pushing out per day.
It is now up to 37 gigabits a
day and I'm still doing the
same amount of shows.
So of course you're supposed to
say, "Hey, we need BitTorrent."
I hope Stu's right.
You can catch my gear.
Hey, Dave, I got some listener
feedback here.
A message for you actually.
Oh yeah?
Yeah, hold on.
I'll play it for you.
Okay.
Hi Dave.
This is Aldo Costaneda from Med
field, Massachusetts and I'm
sending this because I wanted
to reply
in a way to Dave Weiner's
comments that you had on your
show the other day about a link
being one of the fundamental
components of the web.
It got me thinking and I guess
I've been thinking about this
before.
I heard that really one of the
kind of defining
characteristics that perhaps we
don't think
about.
Perhaps this is something that
the community out there that's
particularly the open source
community thinks about a lot,
but is that the web provides an
incredibly efficient way
to measure ideas, to measure
the value of ideas very early
before without requiring huge
capital investment.
I think this notion really, if
it hasn't been discussed much,
is one that's really worthy
of focus and discussion because
I think it has huge
implications particularly for
those
people that are developing just
for the love of it, the iPod
community in essence, in that
if the community can harness
the value of an idea or can
measure the value of an idea
really early on and can measure
that throughout the life of an
idea, then I think that that
can give those people that
devote themselves to it a lot
of freedom in terms of finding
interesting ways to get
financing basically, to get
paid for what they do without
at the
same time having to give up the
freedom in which they do it.
They don't have to work for a
corporation.
Things like that.
That's the core concept.
I guess what I want to do is
put that concept forward and
see if there's interest in
really
trying to understand it or to
find out if it's already
something that's been thought
about and dismissed and just
put it out there.
My email address is AldoALDO@
theworld.com.
If this ever gets out to your
community and there's an
interest in researching it more
,
it's something that I'd
actually really like to
dedicate some time to research
because
I think it could have really
fundamental impact on the way
we view open source and
distributed
development and all those
things.
Thanks a lot.
Could you hear that, Dave?
Yeah, I heard the whole thing.
I think that I think it's right
.
I'm not sure that it can
generate financing, but there's
a reason why the web attracted
all the hippies.
As he's lighting up one guy at
a time, this is what we don't
talk about, but let's talk
about it anyway.
Engadget was reviewing trade
secrets.
I thought they're doing a great
job and support what they're
doing.
I'm a big fan of Engadget.
They said that basically this
is the best form of radio
because Adam's always doing
bomb hits on the radio.
So are you, I heard.
They kind of said, "I'm doing
it too, but I want to get that
really clear.
I'm not."
You wish.
When I live in a country where
you go to jail for that shit,
the next thing I don't want
to hear is the DEA knocking
down my door going, "Dave, what
are you doing?"
Dave's not here, man.
Dave's not here.
Anyway, to go back with what
was his name?
Aldo.
Castaneda.
Aldo Castaneda.
Yeah.
I mean, the web was about dis
intermediation or the internet
is about disintermediation,
which means getting rid of the
intermediaries.
Not that we didn't need
intermediaries because we did.
In the era of centralization,
it was all about intermediaries
.
The big TV networks and radio
networks.
Where do you get your news from
?
The big airlines.
Everything had to be big in
order for everybody to have it.
The internet says the
information doesn't have to be
like that.
I don't have to be big in order
for anybody to have the
information that I produce.
So as a result, for the first
10 years, which is really about
where we're at now, first
10 years of the web, we were
focusing on text because the
pipes were pretty narrow.
And then the tools, the content
development tools, the editing
tools, all the stuff that
we're using now, while it isn't
new, it got really affordable.
I tell people this all the time
, Dave.
I invented the $40,000 website.
That was peanuts.
Yeah.
Why?
Because it was people power.
People were doing it by hand
and writing it in Notepad and
VI.
Now the $40 tool literally can
do the same, if not better.
Right.
And so money now is, while it
is still an object, it's less
of an object.
And that means that we can now
try to do radio.
And Adam, we've been waiting,
trying to get this to bootstrap
.
I did a project last year with
Chris Leiden, who was one of my
colleagues at Berkman Center.
And Chris did a series of
interviews with bloggers and
luminaries.
There's great stuff.
And we produced an RSS 2.0 feed
with enclosures.
And some people listen to it,
but it wasn't like daily source
code.
And it didn't take off like
Dave Schlescher's stuff or any
of the things that we're seeing
.
It may be that it wasn't a
critical master, or maybe the
time wasn't right.
No, it didn't.
There was no iPodder.
And I think Chris Leiden could
do a great job now if he would
continue to release stuff
on his RSS feed.
I think that's the only thing
that didn't happen, Dave.
Is that right?
I think it was more than that.
I think the iPodder was
instrumental, but I think you
doing one every day made a very
big difference.
Are you there?
Yeah, hold on.
My battery just died.
Talk amongst yourselves for a
second.
I just got to--
Hold on a second.
Let me grab my mic.
I want to move.
I got it.
Yeah, I should have replaced it
before I-- Okay, maybe I should
play some music while
Adam is out farting around.
I happen to have something-- I
think I have something queued
up here.
This one podcasting is all
about.
Don't tell Adam that I did this
.
What did you do?
I did it.
Don't tell Adam.
I never got it.
I'm not--
I just become my favorite song.
I love that one so much.
Are you back?
I think Adam may have turned
this thing off.
Anyone there?
No, hold on.
I'm here.
Were we recording?
Yeah, it was funny.
I thought you must have turned
us off.
Hold on.
I just got to replace the
battery in my transmitter.
Hold on.
How cool was that?
I just got to hold on while he
used the battery in his
transmitter.
I'm back.
Yeah, Doug Kay is going to
interview me at 4 o'clock my
time, so I had bought new
batteries.
Well, ask him not to listen to
trade secrets anymore.
Oh, shit.
Just hit my head on the lamp.
All right.
Now, wait a minute.
Oops.
I was going to say-- Oh, no.
I was-- You know what happened,
Dave?
This morning, I was up early
because I was interviewed by
the Australian Broadcast
Corporation.
Or is it company?
You're such a media whore, Adam
.
How do you do that, Adam?
I am.
I'm bending over and saying,
come on, are you Aussie?
I pot me here, baby.
So I was looking over the iPot
ter.org site.
I did something really cool.
I actually rewrote history.
There's a section there that is
called the History Page.
And it was kind of like just a
running ramble of thoughts.
And I've been telling the story
so often for the past week in
interviews that I decided,
let me just write down that
story because that's the story.
And I could embellish a little
bit more.
But you should look at it
because I went back and I
traced the web logs.
I traced the web log postings.
I traced everything that
happened.
And it was-- And I actually--
And I wrote about this.
I said, there's a couple things
I did because I knew that I
really wanted this thing, this
iPotter.
And I wasn't doing daily source
code until I built iPotter.
And in fact, the name daily
source code at the time was
chosen specifically to appeal
to developers.
That makes sense, right?
And so I released the iPotter
script.
And then I actually blogged
this.
I said, hey, I'm just going to
produce this every single day
so you all have something--
y'all-- so y'all have something
to work with.
They talk like that in the
Netherlands.
They try-- No, that's how
developers talk.
They all talk y'all.
Y'all.
So that's how it happened, Dave
.
And that was the difference,
really.
I mean, that's what it was.
It was just the people who
looked at the script and said,
oh, that's interesting.
I can do that better.
That's what it was.
And I-- I'll put a link to that
.
Yeah, did you see the history
page?
I do.
I think I represented your
contributions correctly, if not
let me know.
Yeah, I'm literally trying to
take the backseat here because,
you know, it's-- you're doing
-- I mean, I don't want to
stroke you too much, but you're
doing such a good job here.
And every technology, it would
be good to have somebody who's
sort of like, you know,
doing the art of it, the
content.
And then somebody else who's
sort of thinking about, OK,
well, what's the next step in
the
infrastructure?
That's why we're a great team.
And that's why we're-- that's
why we're good.
Yeah, no.
We're good.
We're ugly, but we're good.
We're good.
We should wear buttons to say
that.
We should have buttons to say,
we're good.
And BloggerCon, we should hand
them out to--
Hi, we're good.
I'm a blogger.
I'm good.
You can go love that.
No, I'm a pod-- actually, Doug
Kay had a really cool thing.
He was trying to figure out the
verbiage of podcasting.
Oh, man.
Please.
And so he asked the question,
well, what-- OK, podcasting
must be the creation of this,
right?
What we're doing right now, or
we're getting ready to do a
podcast, because the podcast
is when you wind up and you
throw it, right?
Yeah, you get this, the pod
pull.
We're pod pulling.
Right.
And so just what he came-- yeah
, right.
Thanks.
I'm going to go there with-- so
he said, then what is listening
?
He's listening also podcasting?
Or is it pod catching?
No.
It's a pod catching, exactly.
And so-- and the funny thing
was is that I had bought that.
You had bought that domain name
.
It's pod catch.
Yeah, I remember that.
Pod catch, and then I still
have it.
I have an interesting one.
So--
Hey, I have a really, really
good one.
We could always use-- I kept
this domain for many, many
years.
It's clambumping.org.
It's not that the fuck does
that mean?
Never mind.
Clambumping.
So somebody asked me-- you must
have got this interview, too.
I bet you did.
Which one?
Somebody asked me yesterday.
Eric at-- oh god, OJR.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Written in--
In an interview.
No, I actually do those voice.
I never do written interviews.
Oh, he sent me a whole bunch of
questions.
That was the only written one I
did, I figured.
And that's actually based on
that.
Should be like a bunch of
holiday.
What?
That's a bussiness holiday.
I write all day anyway, so I
figured if I'm going to do an
interview--
Right, so yeah, I spoke to him.
Yeah.
He had some good questions
about making--
So, yeah, well, you asked if
there was a connection between
Howard Stern and podcasting.
It's all sort of happening at
the same time.
And I said, you know, well, it
's good.
Basically, we're all spreading
out and we're trying out new
ideas.
I honestly think that the
satellite radio is going to
catch on to podcasting and use
it effectively before they get
Howard Stern.
Oh, really?
I think it'll happen before
2006.
Why not?
They have a distribution system
.
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, can you imagine having
XM radio for your home and
connecting it up to your
computer
and, you know, doing the Tivo
thing from your computer to--
Or conversely.
Why not?
Because they should have a
channel that does nothing more
than subscribes to five
different
feeds and just broadcast
whatever it comes up against.
That would be cool, too.
That's exactly right.
Why not?
Or, you know, give you a guy
like Adam Curry, right?
I mean, do you have a track
record for doing this stuff?
Yeah, give me a goddamn channel
.
Put me on the bird, baby!
Well, actually, I was going to
say give you $100 million.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, whoa, let me retry that
statement.
Channel on the bird, $100
million.
I'm calling NASA!
We're blasting off our own damn
spaceship!
Hey, don't get it started.
I like the way you say it, Dave
.
Would you settle for $75
million?
I could barely do it.
I could probably work that out
with them, you know?
And they'll be willing to pay
cash for like $65 million if
you want to go for that, you
get cash.
Yeah, right.
If you want to tax free.
If you want to get it for $50
million.
I want to blow the doors off of
broadcasting.
That's what I want to do.
This is, I think I'm finally
finding my life's mission.
I mean, I was listening.
Did you hear the Steve Wozniak
speech at Nondex?
No, I haven't.
No, you keep talking about it.
Yeah, well, it was podcast.
IT Conversations put it up.
And I sat there listening as Wo
zniak, who can't be much older
than I am.
What is he, is he about your
age?
So about 49, 50?
No, he's old.
Oh, no, no.
He's older than that?
Probably, yeah.
But he's got a young heart.
He was doing the same things as
a kid that I was doing.
I was reading Tom Swift Jr. by
the way, it's been, I've been
keeping this secret, but
hey, this is trade secrets.
I've been keeping this secret
for a long time.
I've secretly been doing an
audio book of Tom Swift because
they're all on the Gutenberg
project.
These books are more than 100
years old.
So of course, that would mean
that Wozniak could be that old
too.
But he also used the radio
shack 101 projects in one, all
that shit.
I was like, my God.
But I had, at a certain point,
it switched to broadcasting
when I was about 15.
I built my first transmitter.
He was also a ham radio
operator and built stuff.
And just about when it got to
the end and the ore and the
logic gates is where I went
off into broadcasting.
And I think I made a mark, may
it be a hairy one.
I made a mark in broadcasting,
certainly on MTV and on radio
stations around the world.
And then it was the internet
where I was right at the
beginning of, I was certainly
one of
those responsible for
commercializing the net,
whether that's a good or a bad
thing
is up in the air.
I think it's good personally.
And I just had like five years
of dicking around and nothing
really, learn how to fly
helicopters.
That's nice.
And did some, tried to start a
couple of things and lost some
money here and there and made
a little bit.
But just became a user, which
is what I promised myself.
And then all of a sudden, boom,
here's, oh, wait a minute,
there's something else.
And I'm kind of leading the
charge.
It's really exciting.
This may be what I'm supposed
to do.
What you did in the last, that
's what you did in the last five
years you learned, you
assimilated and learned how to
do.
We all did.
I mean, five years ago, five
years ago, I had never, I never
launched a standard.
I mean, I had launched things
that would become standards,
right?
But I didn't know how to, you
know, how to get other people
to do what I was doing and
just sort of tripped over that,
you know, that basically, if
you want somebody to do
something, then you need to do
it first.
And that's, that's the big
secret.
You know, you can't stand back
and say, well, I'll do this and
everybody else, would you
all just do that?
No, it doesn't work that way.
They simply won't do it.
No, they won't do it.
They won't.
They'll just do what you're
doing.
And they'll say, okay, well,
who needs you?
We'll just like copy you and
whatever.
And, you know, that was at
first quite frustrating because
I said, well, geez, I'm already
doing
that.
Let me do that.
You do something else.
And then I realized that, that,
that, okay, I just learned to
accept that.
Okay.
Number one.
And then I started when I, when
I, when the thought popped in
my head is I wish everyone
would do X than all I did was
start doing X and saying how
great it was, you know, oh,
I can't believe this.
I always meant it.
You know what I mean?
It wasn't like I was saying.
Purposely did that.
I wanted everybody to do it.
Right.
I was doing it saying it was
great because I was really, you
know, loving what I was doing
and so excited and trying to
get everybody else excited
about it.
And so you've now done that.
And that's, you know, that's
something to be quite proud of.
I mean, you know, you actually
got people to copy you.
And, and that is how you create
these swells of activity.
And then the question is, does
it have legs?
And I'm sure this does.
I mean, I was sure, I was sure
it had legs when we were
sitting in a hotel in New York.
That was a 99, wasn't it?
Yeah.
I think it was 2000, but you
know, it was like when the
light bulb went on for me and
I, oh, that's a good idea.
You know, so fuck, how did this
like hair dude?
Yeah.
Like celebrity.
Yeah.
Did he figure this out?
Yeah.
It's like your star had to fade
a little bit before I came.
Before it could really shine.
Well, before they're ready to
let you have another career,
you see, that's the thing.
That's true.
People don't say that about you
anymore.
They don't, I don't hear that.
You know, they don't say, okay,
well, Adam Curry, oh, he's the
guy with the hair.
You don't hear that.
But, not much.
And still around.
It's a reference.
It's like a beacon.
I have, yeah, it's a beacon,
but I have to explain to some
people who you are and what
your background is.
People who should have known,
you know, you think, well, geez
, where were they in the
80s, right?
But, you know, they obviously
weren't around what you were
doing and where they forgot.
Or, oh, that's possible.
I forgot a lot about the 80s
too.
Well, you know what they say
about the 60s is if you
remember them, you weren't
there.
So I've been listening and I've
been subscribing to the KOMA
1000 news feed.
Oh, that's so awesome.
Yeah.
I got one that I want to play.
Here's a short news story.
These are great because about
45 minutes and they come in
neatly bundled packages.
45 seconds.
Sorry.
Yeah, this is from Herb who
gives us tips on how to use our
computers.
And it made me laugh, but I,
you know, this is also a good
way to, you know, well, I'll
talk about content routing in a
second, but here's Herb with
his computer tip.
Ah, ah, ah, don't click that
link.
The opt-out link on spam email
messages.
Clicking it won't do any good.
And according to Message Labs,
a leading email security
service, it may let a hacker
take
over your computer.
Some spammers are putting
special code in those click
here to opt-out links.
The moment you click on it,
they turn your computer into a
zombie.
Bob Sullivan, technology
correspondent for MSNBC, says
they do that by hiding a Trojan
horse program on your system.
Once this Trojan is installed
on your computer, they can do
anything with your computer
that
you could do.
They can send out as much spam
as they want for your computer
and that's probably why
they're doing it.
But they could also move around
the internet using your
computer.
They could use your computer to
attack another computer.
And of course they could feel
all your personal information
from it.
So how do you protect yourself?
MSNBC's Bob Sullivan says the
safest thing you can do is to
read your email in plain
text and not HTML format.
You should also have your web
browser in a high security
setting.
Keep your antivirus software up
to date.
As you put a ginormous condom
all over yourself in your
computer.
And never click the unsubscribe
link in a spam message.
And that's today's tip.
I'm Herb Weissbaum, the
consumer man, looking out for
you on Como 1000 News.
I love that.
I feel so much safer than Herb
is looking out for us.
Herb's a good guy.
He's great.
But he's saying all the right
things.
I gotta go see those guys.
They're local.
I'm here in Seattle.
They're in Seattle.
We've got to find out.
We've got some soul brothers
here.
Very cool.
What they're doing is so
incredibly cool.
Can I tell you a little story?
Yeah, go for it.
It's a real little bit of a
time.
We had the Thursday evening
meetings at Berkman.
We would do them every Thursday
.
It was an open meeting for all
bloggers, not just people at
Harvard, but just anybody
in the area and people that
would come in town and they'd
come by and see us.
One of the regulars of those
meetings was Lisa Williams.
And we were talking about, I
forget exactly what we were
talking about, but the nature
of the web came up, or blogs or
whatever.
And she said that blogs are
like food that you can eat.
Like, okay, food you can eat
with chopsticks.
I asked her an explanation.
She said, well, you know, if
you look at what Chinese food
is, is that they design their
food so that it can be eaten
with chopsticks.
And you stop and think about it
, and it's true.
There are these little chunks.
They're already pre-sliced.
Everything's already for you to
just pick it up and put it in
your mouth, which isn't
like Western food, which is
designed to be eaten with a
fork and knife.
So you eat like a steak if you
like that, right?
And then she was saying that
blogs are like Chinese food
that way.
They're these little morsels,
little standalone things.
And that's what struck me about
the Como podcast feed is that
what they're doing, like you
said in your daily source code,
is that, okay, they're now
giving me the daily news in a
form where, okay, if I'm not
interested, just hit the fast
forward button and I'm on to
the next one.
Right.
Now that's a revolution.
And the next step, of course,
is subscribe to the general
interest feed here or the
sports
feed or that's the next step.
Yeah.
It's putting a lot more, the
user is a lot more in control.
And yet there's nothing about
it that says you can't make
money doing this.
None of their business models
are negated.
However, they will have to deal
with more competition because
there's not this scarce
resource called Bandlif.
I mean, or frequency.
Frequency, spectrum.
Spectrum, spectrum, right.
Spectrum is the right word.
Sorry.
I'm not a geek in that area.
But yeah, so it's wonderful.
They took the lead in what you
're doing with WGBH Boston.
That's fantastic.
Yeah, isn't that great?
The stories are a lot of fun.
And there's going to be a lot
more of that.
And that's so exciting.
I got another audio comment
from, have you ever listened to
the "Dawnton Drew" show?
I've only heard clips on your
show.
I have not listened to it yet.
They're funny, man.
You really should listen.
Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
They wind up talking about how
Dawn is saying, "Okay, so when
you sit down to pee, does your
wiener get wet?"
And they're really honest.
These are really honest
questions.
These are the questions on
everybody's mind, right?
Yeah, I guess so.
It wouldn't have been a war in
Iraq if we knew the answer to
that one.
Hold on.
Here's a question.
Actually, it was probably for
the source code, but since this
is my recording, "Venture
for Today," we'll use it here.
Hey, Adam, it's Drew from the "
Dawnton Drew" show.
I just thought I'd try out this
audio comment type of thing.
It just seems like the cool
thing to do these days.
But I was checking out your
podcast today and you were
referencing, what's his name?
Go Higan.
He does it for us.
Hey, Adam, it's Michael Gohagan
.
Michael.
There we go.
Go Higan.
Okay, here's some feedback.
Michael Gohagan, he was
mentioning the whole genre
thing.
And I just thought that was
really interesting because I
hadn't really realized that it
was
even an issue.
I had been doing it since the
...
I think I did it from the third
show.
I started adding all the
metadata and then I went back
in and redid all the metadata
even back to the very first
show so anybody who grabs all
of them, as I was going through
the metadata, the ID3 tags
inside iTunes, I realized that
you could type in the genre
tag.
So I just went ahead and put
podcast and I've been doing it
ever since.
And I just think it's pretty
cool that I was just forcing
that genre upon anybody and
everybody's
iTunes.
So interesting that that was
what you guys were talking
about and I'd been doing that
and not that I'm the pioneer of
that or anything.
I just think it's cool.
I think it's totally
appropriate and we should
definitely force our agenda on
the masses.
So yeah, hey, awesome show.
Thanks again for...
I mean, you inadvertently
plugged our show again by
playing that podcast from
Canada.
All right.
So then he goes on to thank me
profusely.
But these are just users, man.
These are just people who are
just digging and doing this.
You gotta be careful I found
out about calling people users.
They don't necessarily see
themselves that way.
The other thing I was thinking
about is listening.
I didn't hear most of what he
said because the convictions
get pretty bad.
You must be doing an iPod or
scan right now.
No, I have everything off.
I have all my shared drives are
disconnected.
I'm standing on my left foot.
I'm probably doing one.
Yeah, you're probably your
aggregators sucking shit down.
I think Adam, it's getting
pretty close to time for some
awards.
Yeah, I think it's getting
there.
And a button on your homepage.
That's the thing.
Well, no, I'm not kidding.
This is a joke.
The thing is, is that people
mostly...
We talk about this with
developers, right?
What do developers want?
90% of what a developer wants
is to be appreciated, to be
acknowledged, to be seen, to
achieve
visibility through their
creativity, which is the best
way for somebody to be visible.
You don't want somebody to be
...
Then to have to create
visibility by flaming you on a
mail list.
Right, right.
So, we're still in good vibe
land here.
And maybe we could figure out a
way...
It can't just be...
I don't know how we do it, but
it'd be great to sort of give
everybody who's done a podcast
right now some way of being
part of something, like an
association or...
Because these are the good
energy people.
These are people who are going
to remember when it was
wonderful.
National association of podcas
ters.
N-A-P-G.
MAPC.
I'm going to the MAPC.
I don't think so.
No.
We'll have to work on that one.
Yeah.
Well, either we do it at or
around BloggerCon or how it has
to happen after BloggerCon,
because that's...
Okay, okay.
You got it.
We're going to have a pod...
I got it.
This is what Doug K asked for.
We got to do it.
We're going to have a podcaster
's dinner on Saturday Night at
BloggerCon.
There you go.
Okay.
Oh, man.
It'll be a good guest.
It's going to be fun.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
I'm going to have a podcaster's
dinner.
That is a take off of a take
off of a take off on the way
old fashioned announcers talk.
What you notice in the radio
business, guys on the real
radio, not podcasting but
broadcasting,
they're always, you know, you
stand next to them in the
studio and listen.
They're screaming most of them
like, "Everybody, it's a WCZZZ
100.
We'll take all of them right
now.
One, two, three, four, two,
three, zero, one hundred.
Do that from Z100."
Right?
So, I've had some practice.
Wait a whole lot of it while I
regain my composer.
Right.
Well, you know, so then the
other one is 107.5, WLTW,
playing the best of the 70s,
the 80s,
and the 90s.
We're the mix in time.
Yeah, I can do that one.
I don't think it works on WNEDW
.
WNEDW.
Well, yeah, no, that had to be
kind of like the muffled
microphone.
It was like, "Jonathan Schwartz
on WNEW FM."
No, you know, you're overdoing
it.
He was the foe sincere.
He was sort of like your best
friend, but the best friend of
your girlfriend.
Right.
And so he could do the trade
secrets.
I mean, you know, you always
sort of get the idea that he
knew how to get the chicks.
So, you wanted to sort of
listen to figure out how he was
doing it so that you could
get some too.
Well, so, I think it all
happened.
Howard Stern really brought
that into the front of the
media when Hank Kingsley from
Larry Sander's show.
"Hey now, Hank Kingsley, and
now it's time for Larry Sander
."
And so Howard Stern started
doing a lot of that.
But in the meantime, at radio
station, this has been this way
forever since, I guess,
you know, Rock and Roll radio
started.
Those who weren't on the radio,
so like the program director
and the managing or the general
manager or the music director,
they all, you know, have this
like special little language
that they speak with the air
talent who are often like the
morning show guy who might also
be the program director.
And they all talk about, "Hey
man, I know what I'm doing,
everybody.
Hey man, yeah man, we got good
radio news man.
Yeah, hey man, yeah man, I'll
talk later.
Bye, bye."
Because, you know, we're all
such incredible communicators.
We have our own little special
shorthand.
And ask anyone in radio, they
'll confirm this.
It's horrible.
So you know, you just get into
the habit of just slipping into
it and you know, the automatic
thing is, "Hey now everybody,
how you doing?
Good morning!"
So.
That was great.
But listen to the radio and
that's the difference between
radio broadcasts and podcasts.
That's the first thing you hear
.
That's why I say it's like
college radio, which was
incredibly cool man, you gotta
listen
to college radio back in the 80
s.
That's where it was happening.
That's where that's where the R
.E.M came from.
You know.
Well I did actually listen to
FM radio when I was in San
Francisco and it was actually
kind of nice.
There's a station called KFRC
which is an oldies format and
they played some songs I
hadn't heard in a long time.
Right.
And I like that.
It's nice, you know.
They played a song called "
Those were the days, those were
the days my friend."
"Days my friend, I know they
never"
We thought it turned out, an
answer came on and explained
that it was a Russian song.
I think her name was Hopkins,
Mary Hopkins.
And it was a wonderful song.
So you know, I was like, I sat
there in the parking lot.
I got into the hotel.
And I just listened and I tears
, you know, it's sad because it
's true those were the
days we thought they'd never
end.
We were young and we didn't
know better.
We're getting close.
We're getting damn close, right
?
Oh man.
Damn it.
You mentioned that.
I wish I had known.
What?
Now go ahead.
You wish you'd known what?
I wish I had known then what I
know now.
You know.
Oh, stupid cliche.
Right.
Sure.
Anyway.
Yesterday on the source code I
played Frank Sinatra, "Come Fly
With Me."
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
So here's something really
weird.
Today in slips my into my iPod
der.
So I actually checked it on
iTunes.
The latest GeekSpeak, which is
the gamer Geeks who have a
podcast.
Yeah.
Check them out what they
started with.
This is this.
It freaked me out and it took
me a second and I won't let you
hear the whole thing, but
you'll understand.
Fly me to the moon.
Yeah.
Let me.
That's how they started.
Listen, I can tell you didn't
read scripting news yesterday
because number one I went to
--
Yeah, I did.
I did.
You did.
Yeah.
You did.
I'm waiting for you to tell the
story.
I'm waiting for you to tell the
story.
Oh, yeah.
I was getting off the tram at F
FO listening to the Daily Source
Code.
I had just returned my rental
car and was going to the
terminal and Adam says, "Well,
I'm going to play you a song."
And the song comes on as I'm
going down and says, "Welcome
to San Francisco International
."
And it's come fly with me.
Da, da, da, da.
And I go, "Fuck, I'm going
flying."
Adam, all right.
Not bad.
Everybody.
Yeah.
Big, big, big.
Everybody.
He's from Seattle, Washington.
How's it going up there, Big
Davey?
Listen to the radio and you're
going to -- is it going to
start noticing this?
You will start noticing how
these guys talk.
Oh, yeah.
And they're so cookie cutter.
In the middle of the day, there
's always the midday girl.
That's when the women are
always on.
It has to be midday, after the
morning show and before
afternoon drive.
So it kind of carries you over.
And it's for housewives.
That's why they always put
women there.
Actually, when I was a kid, N-E
-W-F-M, which was my station,
had Allison Steele.
Allison Steele, yeah.
Allison Steele, the nighter.
Right.
Yeah.
The nightbird, exactly.
The nightbird, yeah.
And she would be on at 2 a.m.
and he'd go, "Oh my God, she
must be a mysterious woman.
She's on at 2 a.m."
She had the perfect face for
radio, my friend.
Yeah.
And then she used to play --
there was a song, I forget who
's saying it, it was called, "I
Usually Like It Much Better in
the Morning."
Yeah.
And it was a woman singing that
.
Maybe you could find that
somewhere.
It was really something.
I like it so much, but I'll
have to look at it for it later
.
I like it much better in the
morning, which was an unusual
thought to me.
Because whatever, I was fashion
, obviously.
I was 16 years old.
What else do you think I was
thinking about?
Yeah.
You would listen to the night
bird.
And see, here's the generation
gap, Dave.
When I moved to New York in '87
, I was 20-something.
We had Robin Bird on Channel J.
Oh, God.
Have you ever seen her?
Oh, God.
Yeah, that's a faint echo of
what Allison Steele was.
"Come on, baby, bang my box.
Come on, baby, bang my box.
You can bang my box."
That was a great show.
I love that show.
Listen, when all this shit was
going on with Jonathan Schwartz
and Scott Muney was another
one.
Yeah, Scott Muney, W-N-E-W-S-N.
There were hippies in the East
Village.
You know?
There were long-haired hippies.
Just like there were in Haydn,
Asbury.
K-Fog was, I don't know, from
the first place.
I don't know anything about San
Francisco Radio Zero.
Doc Searles knows everything
about San Francisco Radio.
Well, yeah, he does.
There's two stations in San
Francisco Bay Area that were
seminal, made a big difference,
at least as far as I know,
where K-Fog, which is still
there.
That was a progressive rock.
Right.
You know, the equivalent of W-N
-E-W.
Then it was K-Pig.
K-Pig, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In Gilroy, I think they were.
They had a stream going for a
long time.
But they still streamed.
They were like one of the big
pioneering streamers.
I don't know, but they were
still there.
When I moved to the Bay Area in
'79, and I lived in Los Gatos,
that was the first place
I lived.
They were close.
I was close enough to Gilroy to
actually pick up K-Pig, and it
was great.
I couldn't believe it.
They were playing things like
Little Feet.
Little Feet was one of my
favorite bands.
Right, right, right.
They played The Dead.
They played all the sort of
stuff you never heard on FM
Radio.
Of course, they were too good,
I guess, to last.
Doc, we'll talk about that.
I'm sure Doc will be there at
Barcon.
We got to do so many podcasts
when we're at BloggerCon.
I'm just looking forward to
putting cool stuff together.
I think Sliden did that at the
first Barcon.
He did.
It was really good.
It was very good.
In fact, he interviewed you.
We should dig that one up.
It was you, and who else did he
interview that was really good?
It was Jay Rosen.
Yeah, you're right.
Jay Rosen was at Jay Rosen's
podcast, or really we can call
him podcast then, but I
remember
going, "Okay."
Webcast, we called him for some
reason.
Something like that.
Well, they were cast from the
web.
I don't remember.
We'll have to go back and
listen to see what we called
them.
I mean, that was the first time
I heard Daily Costs, and he
interviewed Daily Costs.
Right.
He interviewed Julie Powell
from...
Hold on a second, Dave.
My cat is freaking out.
Hold on.
I got to go.
Let the cat in.
Come here.
Come here, baby.
Come here.
Everybody wait while Adam goes
and takes care of the cat.
Come here.
Go.
Damn.
Maybe someday we should do a
trade secrets that's like 100%
domestic.
Oh, I can't hear you.
We have wireless microphones.
Yeah, I'm back, but no wireless
speakers yet.
Okay, so I was just telling the
people about how someday we
ought to do the domestic trade
secrets where basically all we
do is just clean the house and
flush the floor.
Reality radio.
Maybe you can leave it running
while I go shopping.
How incredibly exciting.
Oh my God.
It's the boner cast.
Lovely.
So, yeah, I had dinner with
Steve Gilmore.
That's one thing I wanted to
tell you about.
Last night.
Or the night before.
No, the night before.
It was the night before.
It was the night before, yeah.
And he said...
Can't wait to meet him in the
blogger.
A comedy channel.
Yeah, I asked him if he had
ever met you.
He said he hadn't.
And he says what we're doing is
a comedy show here.
Oh, then we can get a listing
under the comedy note in the
directory, which is maintained
by someone else, so I'll have
to submit a link.
You'll have to get down on your
hands.
I will.
Please add us to your comedy
directory.
Please, please, please.
No, please.
And buy flowers and tell them
how much you love them.
The way it should be.
Or whatever.
I don't know.
Send flowers.
Tell them that you really care.
I love you and I love it and I
really care.
Right.
So what else does Steve's...
I can't wait to meet Steve
because he's been such a
tremendous driving force and at
the
end of every single Gilmore
gang boy, if he doesn't come
out and just plug podcasting
some more.
It was really great the way I
was listening to the interview
with Kim Kulesi and...
Kulesi.
I can say, in pronunciation.
Kulesi.
And, you know, I wanted them to
ask her a question that they
didn't ask, you know, because
she
was always talking about
walking.
I don't know if you listened to
the whole thing.
Yeah, I listened to the whole
thing.
It was extremely difficult at
times.
Yeah.
Why was it difficult?
Well, because I got the idea,
you know, and I just hear...
I hear a lot of marketing speak
after a while.
You know, I just get tired of
it.
You know, I get it.
You're providing service to
open source, you know, stacks
that you'll sell.
I get it.
It's great.
You know, there's companies
doing that.
There's going to be more and
this is probably going to be a
really good one.
Well, there's a geek fasc
ination with Kim.
You've got to understand.
She can really talk about
anything she wants.
She's cute.
Yeah.
And then the guys will go, "Oh,
really?
Oh, that's fascinating."
That's what they want to hear.
They want to hear.
Kim, this is great.
You're right.
The kill one.
All those guys were sitting
there.
I thought it was phones ringing
, but no, it was boing, boing,
boing, boing.
And they just wanted to know
what's on her mind.
And at the end, it was really
cool.
I thought there was a really
great moment in there where, at
the end, you know, because
she apparently had given a
speech at this invitation only
$2,400 VC conference on blog
ging,
which by the way is like a
Republican conference on the
environment.
Yeah, I read that quote on
scripting news.
That was funny.
It's gotten a lot of play.
Of course.
I actually got a response from
a venture capitalist on that
and a friend of mine, Hank
Barry, and
the conversation turned in very
interesting directions.
Hank's a really good guy.
He came out and visited us.
Anyway, at the end, they asked,
so Kim's speech was, apparently
, was a lot about, you know,
podcasting and blogging and RSS
and all the things that we
think are so cool, you know,
which don't seem to have
anything to do with what you're
doing.
With a stack.
An open source stack.
Right.
With a stack.
Well, yeah.
Stack casting.
We have a new one, ladies and
gentlemen.
We're going to bring you to the
next episode.
We have a new one, ladies and
gentlemen.
We're going to bring you stack
casting by the end of the year.
Pretty soon.
Yeah.
It's in the queue right now.
So they asked her about that
and then she just lit up.
It's like, oh, this is all the
cool shit, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And you go, okay, that's cool.
How did that happen?
Why isn't she doing all that
stuff?
I don't know.
She should be.
It's probably, it's a venture
capital thing.
It's another one of those where
probably they had a CEO for
this company, the Kleiner Per
kins
guys, and something happened.
He blew up.
Or the entrepreneur said he
could be the CEO and they
eventually wore him down and
convinced
him he couldn't.
And is Kim like the standby CEO
and residents of a venture
capital firm?
Yeah, it's not the best standby
.
They have a stable of them.
It's the way the system works.
Basically they move you out of
one company and then you get a
hang out until, you know,
and they keep showing you
companies until you go, okay, I
like that one and they put
you in a CEO of that one.
Oh, hey Dave, hey Dave, hey
Dave, let's start a company and
then let venture capitalists
take us out.
Real quick.
Oh, I actually did that one.
Me too.
I've been living off the
proceeds ever, ever since.
Yeah, let's start something.
Yeah, I was, shh, shh, shh, don
't tell anyone.
That's a secret.
It's a secret.
That was funny because I heard,
I don't know if Steve was at
that dinner, but he certainly
did call on her at the end of
the Gilmore Gang about podcast
ing.
Yeah.
That was kind of cool.
And he didn't really attack her
.
He had lots of room there,
which was nice.
Oh, totally.
The question he should ask is
where's your lock in?
Where's your lock in?
She was talking about everybody
else's lock in.
I was like saying, okay, he has
dirty underwear.
He has dirty underwear.
Okay, what about your underwear
?
She's got a dirty stack.
Yeah.
She's stacked.
I'm not going there.
I'm sorry.
Don't you have to put a
disclaimer in somewhere here,
Mr. Weiner?
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
All right, on that note.
That was a long time ago.
On that note.
And I have, you know, I have,
you want to listen to something
or you want to end it?
We're about an hour into this.
What do you want to do?
What do you have?
Well, it's about, let me see
how long it is.
It's kind of long, but it's
really good.
It's six minutes.
It's, I plugged this yesterday
on the source code, the truth
out overview from truth out.org
.
This guy has been, he was doing
his own podcast and it's just
so good.
It's just, I mean, this guy.
Well, then you have to play
this.
It's so good.
I'll just play it.
I'll play a little bit of it.
I'll play about, I want to play
the beginning and about a
minute of what he's doing.
You'll get the idea pretty
quickly.
All right.
Okay.
And you should subscribe too.
Good evening.
This is William Rivers Piff and
this is the truth out overview
for Friday, October 8th,
2004.
Our lead for today comes from
the editorial board of the Dem
orns Register and is titled
Orwell Goes to War.
The essay reads in part as
follows.
We live in Orwell in times
where obvious falsehoods are
asserted brazenly as truth.
The day after the final report
of the Iraq survey group
confirmed that Iraq had no
weapons
of mass destruction and no
active programs to produce them
, Vice President Dick Cheney
blithely asserted that the
report justified the invasion
of Iraq.
No Mr. Vice President, the
report shattered the last forl
orn hope that the war was
necessary.
It established that Iraq posed
no threat to the United States
before the 2003 invasion
or any time in the foreseeable
future.
You get the idea, right?
Yep.
Yeah, it's really, really good
stuff.
And he reads his own essays and
other newspaper articles you
might not come across.
It's a podcast but it's just
like a weblog.
He's routing information.
All these people are routing
information around.
I just routed information by
playing this.
This is good.
This is just good stuff.
He's a good feed to subscribe
to.
What's the feed?
Where is it?
It's in the podcast directory.
That's all you need to know.
Yeah, on iPodder.org.
It's a truth out.
A truth out overview is what it
's called.
So you should be able to find
it.
That's what we need.
We need to be able to search
the directory tree really
quickly.
We've got to do all kinds of
stuff like that.
Is that possible?
Is it distributed?
Does that work?
Oh, anything works.
You know, we've got to, well
here's the deal.
Then we've got to talk to the
search entities and get them to
crawl that tree.
You know, and then, okay, that
's step number one.
I'm glad we got a chance to do
this.
That's step number one.
Once they've crawled it, when
they find one, they should just
display it like a directory.
Yeah, done.
You're done.
It's so cool.
We've now completely disinter
mediated Yahoo.
And God knows they need to be
disintermediated.
Even they would agree with that
.
By now.
Probably not.
Well, but then who cares what
they think, right?
I don't care.
I don't care either.
I don't care.
Jeremy Zawadny takes that.
He doesn't care what I think.
Can you believe that guy?
I mean, basically he goes and
asks Tim O'Reilly whether he
has any conflicts of interest.
Like, don't you own Google
stock, Tim?
And of course, Tim did own
Google stock and it was a good
question to ask.
And so I quoted him asking the
question.
What was that about a year ago?
No, it wasn't that long ago.
I should.
It's about time somebody had
the balls to ask O'Reilly that
question.
What's the question?
Explain the situation because I
know what you're talking about.
Okay, well what happened was
that Tim O'Reilly, Google was
getting a lot of heat for
something
that they did.
I don't remember what it was.
They get a lot of heat.
They're a big company and they
're in a leadership position and
heat is a good thing.
It was Gmail.
It was about Gmail, wasn't it?
Right, it was the privacy
issues.
And the privacy issues, and I
think I had written this, was
like there were no worse
than anybody else and come on,
get a life.
This isn't really a privacy
issue.
But people were freaking out.
In the state of California, it
was going to pass the law.
Making what they were doing
illegal.
It was just so ridiculous.
So Tim O'Reilly comes along and
writes a thing basically saying
this is all a bunch of bullshit
.
And you can't hold them.
But he went way over the line.
I thought.
I don't get what he said.
But some of the things he said
were like, come on, don't go so
far.
Don't get so crazy about Google
.
We've got to be realistic about
them.
And what Jeremy is a Wadney who
works at Yahoo.
His what was making him sore,
and you can see this happening
over and over, is that Yahoo,
they feel fair amount of
resentment for Google because
they get credit for doing the
things
that Yahoo did first.
They get credit for doing it
first.
Everybody says, oh Google is so
innovative.
But they're actually just
copying Yahoo.
That's the way it goes.
So he comes.
Well, it does.
It does.
I hate that.
And I support Zaladney in that
one.
I think that we ought to know
who did the innovation.
Let's get grounded in the truth
.
So Zaladney asks the question,
hey Tim O'Reilly, don't you own
a lot of Google stock?
But you did disclose when you
wrote that.
And of course, you kind of do
need to disclose that.
Or at least when somebody asks,
you should answer, right?
Instead Tim goes blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, and never
really answers the question
except he kind of says, yeah, I
do.
But it's sort of like that
comes in paragraph eight.
But first he has to say why the
question isn't a fair one and
how blah, blah, whatever.
Tim O'Reilly, usual, long,
windy, very sort of like, I'm
Mr. Cool and it's perfect and
clean.
Well, there goes my invitation
to food camp, Dave.
Thanks.
No, that goes my invitation to
food camp.
You can just stroke him any way
you want.
So anyway, to take a long story
, very, very long, tediously
long.
I quoted Zaladney.
I said, well, thank you.
I didn't say anything.
I just did Zaladney, Colin.
How much stock does Tim own?
Google stock does Tim own.
And all of a sudden, a fucking
lame, like, I'm the bad guy,
right?
They always kill the messenger,
Dave.
They always kill the messenger.
No, I'm not the messenger.
Zaladney's the messenger.
But you want to know the
problem is Zaladney's an O'Re
illy author.
Oh, the small detail.
They said, well, were you
expecting a royalty check this
week?
The tech industry is worse than
entertainment, Dave.
The tech industry is just
fucking bad.
So we got a cheater chick
entertainment.
Yeah.
Well, you don't get it.
We don't have no Kim.
We're catching up quickly.
You have plenty of Kims.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, no.
All of them.
What do you say we hit the
theme music at the fuck out of
here?
I think it's time to get the
fuck out of here.
Because we got to keep our
standing in the comedy listing
on the director.
It can't become boring.
All right, Dave, thanks, buddy.
Hey, Adam.
Have fun.
Okay.
It's davidscripting.com, adam@
curry.com.
This is tradesecrets@secrets.s
cripting.com.
We'll talk to y'all soon.
Bye.
Say bye, Dave.
Bye-bye.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Dave.