(upbeat music)
♪ Throw em up, throw em up
♪
♪ It's trade secrets ♪
♪ Throw em up, it's trade
secrets ♪
- Hey everybody, good morning.
Good afternoon, our good
evening.
It's trade secrets for Friday,
October 1st, 2004.
I'm Adam Curry in Belgium.
- Dave Wider here at Seattle.
- And then we got our stuff
worked out.
This is working now finally.
You're sounding pretty good for
the first time, Dave.
- Think so.
- Well, no, but it makes you
feel better.
(laughing)
Not really.
(laughing)
- Oops, oops.
What the fuck, oops, I, oh,
actually I can say words
like that.
- Of course you can say words
like that.
That's what it's all about.
- What the fuck, what the fuck?
- So let me just tell our
listeners that,
who of course were all ready to
listen to
a trade secrets this morning
that we did
during the presidential debate.
It did, we did do a show.
- We did it, we did.
- And we did, we--
- It really sucked.
- Yeah, we did it in the
business of what we call a burn
.
We burned the show.
It's not like burning it to a
CD.
It's like taking the physical
tape if it resisted
and burning it.
Yeah, it sucked.
It was fun to sit there and
watch the debate with you,
but I don't think anyone else
would get a rat's ass.
- Nah.
- About what we had to say.
- No, no.
You know what's funny, I'm
watching the network news show
this morning and God if they
aren't spinning
the whole thing in favor of
Bush, it's really unreal.
- I read something that said,
since Kerry didn't score
a clear win, he therefore lost.
That seems to be kind of the
analysis
of the spin that I'm reading.
- And they've been bitching at
Kerry for months
because he doesn't present a
plan for what he's gonna do.
So this morning it was a
laundry list.
- Oh really?
- What's the guy gotta do?
Who does he have to blow?
The thing to remember is that
these are the same guys
who decided that Howard Dean
shouldn't be the Democratic
candidate. - Shouldn't be the
candidate.
Yeah, right.
- Yeah, and they sort of feel
like that this whole thing
we do called voting is kind of
just like a little formality.
Rat's like their position.
- Well, let's get your analysis
on the debate, Dave.
What did you think of the
debate last night?
- Kerry fucking kicked, but I
mean, George Bush,
I don't know what they told him
in the prep for this thing,
but I went around.
The best I heard, the best
analysis was in Time Magazine,
where the guy said that Bush
came, showed up with 30 minutes
of material for a 90 minute
debate.
- Yeah, I read that one too,
yeah.
I believe, I agree with that
because he repeated
certain things 10, 11 times,
and he even said,
I can't say it enough, I keep
repeating myself.
Yeah, well, yeah.
- And Scott Rosenberg pointed
out that the whole bit
with the lights, which was
supposed to be Kerry's
nightmare,
turned out to be Bush's because
the light would just
stay on and Bush had nothing to
say.
(laughing)
- He wasn't being confused now
and then wasn't he?
- And Kerry, Kerry, they gave
him nice lessons
and he genuinely came across as
a thoughtful, nice,
intelligent, I love the point
where Larry said,
and you say that the president
has been lying,
and Kerry goes, well, I've been
really careful
not to actually use that word.
- Use that word, yeah.
- Right, and at that moment you
go, wow.
And then I thought about the,
there was a thing on TV the day
before with Lynn Cheney
and what's the vice president's
first name?
I can't think of it for some
reason.
Richard Cheney, Dick Cheney.
- Dick Cheney, yeah.
- Yeah, I remember his wife's
name.
So they were on some sort of
Oprah-like show,
Ray's stage in the middle of a
big room,
and Cheney, and they clearly
had rehearsed this beforehand.
He feeds her a fat, straight
man line,
and she says, oh yeah, he's got
orange skin.
What is this orange thing we're
behind you of?
And she says, I don't know,
should I say it?
And he goes, well, what the
hell?
You know, she goes, oh, you're
right,
Kerry's orange skin.
And I go, wow, I mean, this is
like,
I don't think they're running
for president
of the United States.
- That's like grade school
stuff, man.
- Yeah, not class president of
the six.
- Really, really.
- Yeah, it's like, oh, okay,
so that's how you want to run
this election.
- I gotta tell you though,
I thought John Kerry certainly
came across much better,
much more confident when he
disagreed
with something Bush said.
His facial expressions were
much more,
and we're just like, hey, you
know,
I don't know, the president's
all wrong.
I'm gonna set him straight in a
second.
And when Bush was disagreeing
with stuff,
he was making the most God-aw
ful faces.
In fact, Yahoo, I posted a link
to it,
that one of the most popular
pictures,
they have a page, which picture
's been viewed.
- Oh yeah?
- The most, emailed the most.
Oh, it's hilarious.
It's exactly one of those faces
that the president was making.
- Yeah.
- Well, you could do something
with that.
- That's ready for a photo fuck
, isn't it?
- But they had a little snippet
of John Stewart
on these this morning.
Just sort of, for whatever
reason,
see, man, did some kind of deal
with him,
'cause they now run little
snippets.
And when Kerry does his opening
intro,
where he says, "But first I'd
like to thank my mother
"and you and God."
- Which I thought was kind of
lame, quite honestly.
- The dorky, and then Stewart
does it,
I can't imitate this, since
this is radio.
He has that lurch-like look
where he tilts his head back.
(laughing)
And he goes, and then he says,
"Oh, this is going to be a long
, long thing."
(laughing)
I go, "Right."
- Oh shit.
- You gotta poke fun at that
guy.
The thing about Kerry is, is
that he doesn't seem to mind it
if you poke fun at him.
He is, his ego seems to be
intact,
whereas God forbid anybody
should ever,
can you imagine somebody, you
know, like Edwards saying that,
well gee, Elizabeth, right,
that's his wife, Elizabeth.
What were we talking about,
about Bush the other day?
She says, "I don't know, should
I say it?"
- Alcoholism.
(laughing)
- Or can you say brain damage?
Or, remember, was the brightest
light bulb anyway?
(laughing)
- No, I can't imagine that.
No, I can't imagine that.
- No, but of course these
things actually kind of matter.
Just the slightest little bit.
- It's not even the slightest
bit.
These things totally matter.
The way you come across in the
media is so important.
It's--
- I think it also, when you're,
it matters how you come across
in the room
where you decide whether or not
you're gonna fire off the nukes
.
- Oh yeah, sure, sure.
- I look at you and say, "Well,
I think this guy
"kind of knows what he's doing
."
'Cause that's how you prevent
the coup d'etat, actually.
(laughing)
At that moment, well whatever.
So, I don't know, it's
depressing in a way
because they're gonna pave this
thing over and--
- Well there's more debates.
Is there another one coming up
in a week from now?
- Yeah, but it'll be
interesting to see,
I'm sure that this got Bush's
attention
in the early polls on this
thing.
We're 53 to 37, Kerry to Bush.
So everybody watching it, well
not everybody.
Some people, 37% of the people
thought
that W. Cleen, Kerry's clock,
but--
- I disagree with that, but if
I were for Bush,
I would think that it wasn't
all that bad.
I can certainly see someone
from a Bush perspective
saying, "Oh well, he held up
okay."
And of course, he had just been
in Florida,
he was really tired, he really
didn't have
enough sleep for the, I'm
reading that all over the place
.
- And he had too much to drink
that before.
(laughing)
He had too much to drink.
(laughing)
- Damn.
(laughing)
- Oh Dave.
Now you have no proof of that,
mister, you don't know that.
(laughing)
- I know, it's true, but I don
't know, what the hell.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Do whatever we can.
- So something good that came
out of last night
is we fixed the X-10 phone
sound,
that sounds much better.
And it works a hell of a lot
better.
- Yeah, I like it a lot.
Although today you're a little
more,
sometimes you do a little more
Robocopping, Digi thing,
but that's just probably
network latency or whatever.
God knows.
- You're a bit choppy over what
I'm saying.
- Yeah, so we're probably both.
It is a bit choppy, but it's
better than,
I like it a lot better than
opening up iChat
and covering up my webcam, I
hate that.
That doesn't seem very
efficient.
Or it doesn't look cool also.
What are you doing with that
rag over your webcam?
Today I'm podcasting.
- Well, no, I said your wife
and daughters say that we--
- Hold on, there's a guy that's
got a book there.
So there's only one more thing
I need for my setup
and then it's complete.
I need to have a wireless
transmitter
so that I can walk around with
a wireless mic
and wireless headphones.
Then I'm completely set.
- Yeah.
- Then I have everything I want
.
- Yeah, when you get one of
those, get me one too.
Right now I need the same thing
.
You know, the song for today
might be,
there's this great song by Dan
Hicks and the Hot Licks.
Do you know those guys?
- I was already going to my
iTunes,
but I doubt I have Dan Hicks.
- I have it.
- Really?
- Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks.
And the song--
- Can you email it to me?
- The name of the song.
- Can you email it?
- Of course, I will.
- Yeah, we'll get it out.
- Yeah, I will.
- Okay.
- All right, hold on, let me
just, oh, yeah, oh.
I was gonna go get it off my iP
od,
but then, oh, it's on my hard
drive.
- It should be on your hard
drive, yeah.
- Yeah.
- Oh, it is.
That would be cool, by the way,
if iTunes had a command for
email this song.
Oh, that's right, record
companies wouldn't like that.
- I don't think so.
I think, cool idea, Dave.
But then again, it's really
easy
to make a plugin for iTunes.
You could make that, and
someone could make that
in two seconds if they were
doing,
I mean, iTunes and iPod hacking
is cult now,
as everyone is, that's what I
do like about it.
- Oh, I got this great book.
I got this great book, you
gotta hear about this.
- What's this?
- It's called Hacking iPod and
iTunes by Scott Knaster.
- Oh, cool.
- And it just came in the mail
today,
and I've known Scott for ages.
Scott wrote the original
programmers' Bible
for the Macintosh OS.
- Oh, really?
- Yeah, it was the one you kept
around, basically.
It had all the sort of little
secrets
that we were all sharing
amongst each other.
And he also went on to General
Magic.
He went truly general.
- General Magic, I remember
that, that was cool.
The Magic Cap OS or whatever it
was.
- Yeah, yeah.
Well, they were pretty cool.
- I still have one of those
handhelds.
I have one of those with Magic
Cap on it.
- Oh, you bought one, did you?
- No, no, they gave me one.
I think I was at the launch for
some reason,
or a launch, I can't remember.
- Yeah, yeah.
They wouldn't let me develop
before it.
They said we already have
enough developers, so.
- Yeah, you're a threat.
And look where they are.
They really did did well, didn
't they?
- It worked great for them,
buddy.
- It sure did.
- But Scott was not one of
those guys.
Scott is a genuinely great guy,
and the book looks wonderful.
I really want, you know what I
want?
I want to set verbs in frontier
that allow me
to talk to iTunes.
- Do whatever I want.
No, I don't care about iTunes.
I want the iPod.
I want to make my own iTunes.
I don't like the way that works
.
- Oh, okay, yeah.
Well, that's gonna be real easy
.
It's gonna be real easy because
it's all,
that's the thing that Apple did
is
they left all of that open.
If you want to put songs on,
take songs off,
rearrange them, you can do that
all with,
of course it's an Apple script
API.
- Really?
- Or Apple, I guess it is.
Yeah, yeah, you can.
And with the iTunes version,
there's a Comm-up.
Yeah, there's a Comm-up.
Whatever the hell that is.
But there's a Comm-up.
- Well, that's just like Apple
then.
There's nothing more to it than
that.
It's the same damn idea.
- Are you mailing this song of
the day yet?
Or is it--
- Well, I have to take a second
.
Why don't you tell them a story
or something?
- I just did my source code for
three quarters of an hour.
I'm all soliloquy'd out.
- Why don't you soliloquy your
way
into one of the, like just
repeat something from there.
Or I haven't listened to it yet
.
So do it again.
- Well, I'll do a little promo
for the source code then
while you're sifting through
your hard drive.
- Yeah.
- I played a, actually I played
a bit for you.
'Cause it was, I got up at 2.30
this morning
to be on time for the debate
and I went to bed around
quarter to six
or something like that.
And so in the meantime, as we
were joking around
with doing the show,
I played you a bit of the
history of MP3
that Bumper Morgan sent me.
And I had this whole thing.
This is a German invention.
Did you know that?
This is a great story.
- I did.
- The guy who invented MP3,
and he's in this bit.
It's a German.
He talks like, I went to the
patent office
and they refused my patent for
MP3
because they said it is
impossible.
It cannot be done.
So check this out.
If the guy at the patent office
had not refused the MP3 patent,
we might not have MP3 today.
It's a fantastic piece.
- You're not a kid.
I wanna hear that.
- If it is impossible to do
that,
(speaking in German)
- Wow.
- That was good.
- Wow.
(speaking in German)
- You can't make those jokes.
- I don't think I have this
song.
I don't have this song.
- You're kidding me.
- I have another one which is
even better.
- Okay, don't say the title.
Just send it over.
Don't say the title.
- Why can't I?
Okay, alright.
- Because it'll be a surprise.
Well, because then we'll have
four more minutes
to talk about is that thing is
transferring
from your house to my house.
- Oh, I have a much better
connection these days.
It won't take four minutes.
I have a, I have, you know, I
moved by the way.
Did you know that?
- Well, what, you're no longer
in the place you were in?
Or you mean you're--
- Well, no, but--
- You're out of the hotel.
- I'm not in Boston anymore.
- Dude.
- I'm not in Boston anymore.
- You're telling me this?
- Wait, well, Boston, I had
this shitty neck connection
here.
This one rocks.
- Yeah, it's pretty good.
- I mean, this won't take--
- It's pretty good.
- I mean, relative to what I
had in Boston,
which is a piece of shit, it's
sending it right now.
- So if Mount St. Helens erupts
, Dave,
will you witness any of that?
Would it come with earth trem
ors or--
- Well, yeah, probably.
And a lot of ash, that was the
thing about Mount St. Helens
when it blew last time.
- The ash, yeah.
- I wasn't here for that, of
course.
I was down in California.
Maybe I wasn't even in
California.
I don't, here was it.
When you're in Mount St. Helens
.
- It was at the beginning of
the '80s.
I think it was 1980.
It was like 25 years ago.
But I can remember it, but I
can't really remember it.
Was it really that bad?
I don't recall.
You don't know either.
- It was pretty bad if you were
here.
If you were in Seattle, it was
pretty bad.
If you were in Amsterdam, it
wouldn't have bothered you
very much.
- No, that's correct.
- Or you were in the US.
- No, I was in Amsterdam.
No, I was living in Holland in
the beginning of the '80s.
I was making my career
elsewhere.
I was paying too much attention
to myself.
I didn't give a shit about some
goddamn volcano.
Okay, comparing this with--
- Server.
- I could hear it left your
machine
because your sound went crappy
for a few minutes.
- No, it's still leaving my
machine.
- Oh, it's still leaving it?
Okay.
- I'll tell you what, why don't
you pause the recording
for just a minute so I can go
get some coffee, all right?
- Boy, that's really breaking
the imaginary third wall.
- All right, so leave it on.
- Leave it on and leave your
mic open
so we can hear you get your
coffee, meanwhile.
- Yeah.
- Go ahead.
- Exactly, you got it.
- People can always skip ahead,
you know?
What the hell difference does
it make
if you're bored of this?
Okay, so what we did yesterday
on the X-10 phone,
you'll recall we've tried this
a couple times
and then whenever-- - In the
coffee.
- And then whenever Dave would
laugh loudly
or any type of emotion,
basically,
it would completely over mod
ulate and crap out
and it would screw up the
entire sound,
just sound like shit.
So we found that in the X-10
phone,
which has the worst interface,
bar none that I'm using at the
moment,
because they try to make it
look like a phone,
just give me an application.
But anyway, we're figuring it
out.
There's a way to set an AGC,
and of course I know that means
automatic gain control,
which means that it tries to
keep--
- You're trying to gain?
- Yeah, I'm explaining your
automatic gain control.
It tries to keep the level at
one setting,
so now we're limiting all that
over modulation Dave had,
but also it kind of sucks up
the room noise
when he's not talking,
so we heard you getting your
coffee, big Dave.
That worked very well.
- Did we?
Then narrating it too?
Did you hear the narrating?
- Yeah, I heard the narration.
- I especially like the part
where I got the cream,
that was good.
- Oh, I'm sorry, I was telling
our audience
much more important things
while you were creaning.
(laughing)
Okay.
- I was doing a soliloquy,
what do you want?
- Hey, I haven't gotten this in
yet.
Dude, it's gone, it's left here
machine?
- Yeah, yeah, it's now
completely gone, yeah.
- Right.
- It's going out through the
router.
(laughing)
I still don't have it in.
- It's somewhere around New
foundland right now.
- In millions of bits,
traveling the globe.
So we're leaving in about,
what is it, in about an hour
and a half,
we're leaving for England.
- Really?
- Yeah, we're going to do it in
England.
- Well, Patricia and I are
going to
measure stuff in the new house.
We're gonna go there for a
weekend.
- Wow.
- Yeah, as I told everyone--
- Have you already got the new
house?
- Yeah, yeah, we already have
it.
We, well, we don't actually
move in
until third week of November, I
think,
it's when we start, when we get
the keys.
But tomorrow we're gonna go in,
we need to see where we're
gonna put our stuff.
And so I told the daily source
code listeners
there would be no podcast,
except for the podcast we're
planning in the hotel room.
- Uh-oh.
(laughing)
Is that sort of like what John
and Yoko did?
- I'm sorry, it's a podcast, I
'm sorry.
I messed up there.
- Oh, well, can I get the
warning next time
you're gonna do that?
I can put the coffee cup down.
(laughing)
- I still haven't gotten this
MP3 from you.
How big is it?
Is it really big?
Oh, it shouldn't make any
difference.
- No, it's like two, two and a
half megabits.
It's tiny, two and a half.
- It still has an address.
- So maybe I sent it to the
wrong address.
- It doesn't matter, I have
everything linked together.
- Adam Curry, that's your name,
right?
Adam Curry?
- Let me check, yeah.
- Is that you?
- Yeah, what email address?
- Yeah, what email address did
you associate with me?
- Adam@curry.com?
- Yeah, when you fling me, it
always seems to work.
- Fuck you.
(laughing)
- That's interesting.
- Email is funny that way, isn
't it?
- Yeah.
(laughing)
Hey, I'm CNN, they're playing
that same number,
53 to 37, which we kinda like.
That would be a good final
number for the popular vote,
don't you think?
- 53, 47, what, for Curry?
- Yeah, yeah.
He then got a figure of 53%
that said he won.
How can they do that?
And I think more likely to vote
for him then,
I mean, doesn't that mean, hey,
I kinda thought the guy was
pretty good?
- Well, you wanna spin this?
I mean, depends.
Which side you wanna choose?
- Well, I wanna believe that
Curry's gonna win,
I really do, 'cause I wanna
stay in this country.
I wanna actually, I'd like,
yeah, I mean,
I can't imagine.
He'll go to war with Korea,
that's what's gonna happen with
Bush.
- We do not wanna do that.
We do not wanna go to war with
Korea.
That is a bad idea.
It really is.
It really, really is.
I don't know what's going on,
man, but you're--
- I like Korean.
- Do you like Korean food?
- Maybe I should just upload it
somewhere
so you could download it.
- That's probably a better idea
, yeah.
That's weird, though, because--
- Should've done that in the
first place.
- That's weird, 'cause I put a
swan
that shouldn't take that long.
- No.
- No, there's no reason.
- All right, I'm gonna upload
it while we're doing it.
- Okay, okay.
- Hold on, let's see, where the
hell would this be?
- Something slash gems.
- Yeah, but that's on the other
end,
I have to figure out where it
came from.
I just did a drag and drop on
the desktop here,
but I can't do that when I'm
uploading to the web.
If the web sucks, right?
- Of course. - All right, hold
on.
- Of course it sucks. - Don't
go away.
Yeah, please.
Yeah.
So--
- I wanna talk about something.
Can I talk about something?
Can I set the agenda?
- I don't know, all right, go
ahead.
- Well, since it's my toy that
we're recording on.
(laughing)
- Thought about it, all right,
go ahead.
- No, I wanted to talk about
what I wanna know.
- Let me ask you a few
questions.
How do we, how do I, let's say
how do I,
'cause I think that the Pied P
iper approach works.
How do I get started with
building something
in the open source frontier for
publishing podcasts?
I mean, and I hope the answer
is not going to be
download the source and start
looking at it.
- Well, sure, that's what the
edge is gonna be.
I mean, that's everything,
everything relating
to the open source release
frontier
involves downloading the source
of frontier
and tinkering with it.
Or there's another possibility,
actually, sorry,
not everything, only those
sorts of things.
Which could do is you could
like very,
you could like write up a blog
post about what you want.
- Yeah. - Okay, and then post
it
somewhere and then post a
pointer to that list.
And then at least some of the
people who are trying
to learn how to do that would
know that this is something
that somebody wants, you know.
- Right.
- Or something that you want,
particularly.
- Well, it's what I want, so
that's why I wanna
start building it.
I think that makes the most
sense.
- Well, what is it, tell me
what it is you want.
Let's start right now.
- Okay, so what I've learned
from scripting,
and that's just the act of
scripting,
is that I've gotten to a point
in my life
where I come across these
little things,
these repetitive tasks, that I
find myself doing
over and over and over again.
It's as simple as sending my
calendar file
to my assistant once a week or
whatever.
And so I've scripted my machine
to do all kinds of things
automatically, and that's kind
of how iPod came about,
although there was more
philosophy behind it.
And so now, when we're done
with this show,
which I have to record in AIFF
for security reasons,
meaning if the computer crashes
,
I'm more likely to have a file
sitting there
instead of MP3.
Also, just for workload,
compressing while recording
and running a million apps
makes it skip sometimes.
So then I have to compress it
to MP3.
I have to add the MP3 tags.
I have to upload it to a server
.
I sometimes even have to make a
choice between servers,
whereas really what I want it
to do
is I want to make a bit torrent
,
so that would mean generating a
bit torrent,
uploading the file somewhere,
and the torrent,
adding that to the tracker,
then publishing my RSS 2.0 feed
.
That's just screening for
automation,
and I think it should be either
,
no, here's how I want it.
- I'm not something that you--
- I'll tell you, here's how I
want it.
I want-- - That's not something
--
- Huh?
- What?
- Well, that isn't something
you need.
Are you talking to me?
- I'm listening, yeah, I'm
listening to you.
Hello, I hear you.
- Hello.
- Yep, go ahead.
- Oh, oh, okay.
That isn't something that you
need,
that isn't something that you
need
to access the kernel for.
That's scripting, most of what
you're talking about
is just scripting.
- Oh, right, totally, totally,
totally, totally.
- Nothing changed there.
- But my understanding was,
if we put it into the kernel,
it would run much faster.
- No, there are two things, it
wouldn't,
that, I mean, there's one there
that we don't have, okay,
that would, that kind of would
be necessary
to make it easy, which is
integration of a bit torrent
server with the frontier server
.
That, that would be, and that's
something
we've already sort of been
through
on both of our respective
little podcasts,
little soliloquy things that we
do,
just the little ones.
The thing very big there.
(laughing)
But it would be cool to
basically have,
(laughing)
I know, it would be cool to
have a bit torrent setup
that was engineered for ease of
use
and key integration with the
content management system.
- Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you can have a podcast, a
podcasting system.
- I just got a,
- You're uploading your file,
right?
That's why the audio is a
little delayed.
- Which is, of course, I mean,
yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we're uploading it now
for the second time.
This was a really good idea.
- Yeah, it's all right, I'm
following along with you.
- I knew that this would be the
inspiration.
Good idea, like, yeah, well,
anyway, where was I?
- On the bit torrents
integration.
- Right, so let me just be
clear on one thing,
is that having it be open
source, access to the source
does, in some cases, make for
incredible performance gains.
Okay, but what it also does,
sometimes it makes things
possible that wouldn't be
possible otherwise.
Like, if you wanna take
something like bit torrent
and just bake it in, well, that
would be something
I don't think we could have
done before, but now we can.
- So you can have bit torrent
verbs, basically.
- Yeah, that would be nice.
- Yeah, very cool.
- And then some automated,
automatic,
automatic bit torrent
functionality,
so that basically anything that
's in a certain place
would automatically get all the
treatment.
So all the user would have to
do is just make sure
that it showed up in that place
.
And of course, there are a
billion ways to do that, right?
Upstreaming does that,
uploading a gem does that.
Basically, there are lots of
ways of getting things
to certain places that are
already,
plenty of users know how to do
them.
- Okay, so in my ideal--
- It's on the bit up.
- Okay, semi-the-year-old.
So in my ideal setup, I just
drop a file into a folder
and then something, an
interface pops up and says,
"Hey, you gotta enter some
information here."
I enter that information and
then I just forget about it
and all the rest I want to
happen by itself.
That's literally what I want.
- Oh, there you go, that's
another thing.
Okay, another thing that we
want is we want the ID3 verbs
to be integrated as well.
We want to have a basic native
capability
to set the ID3 information from
a script.
And right now, all we have is
the other way.
We can read the ID3 information
.
So I guess it's a little harder
to do the encoding.
- Say that again the last bit?
- It's probably because it's a
little harder
to do the encoding or maybe we
didn't need it
when we did it, but those verbs
are missing.
Yeah, I mean--
- Well, in a week or so, I'm
gonna jump into the,
I've been lurking on the kernel
developer list.
And I'm gonna jump in because--
- Me too, largely.
- Because I think that what I
like most about
the open source frontier, the
concept,
is that I could create
something
that would basically be one
application.
You download it, you double
click it, it runs.
And that's what I really like.
I don't like the idea of people
maybe not having Python on the
machine,
which is not hard to get,
but you know, Perl, you have to
import all these modules
and it's just, you can't ask
any user to do that.
All they want is the promise of
, oh.
- Well, those are, right.
Those are all places where they
could make a mistake
and they know it.
- Yeah.
- That's the, it's not just
that they could make a mistake,
but they've been down this road
before.
- Yeah, fuck it, they said.
I don't wanna do that, right.
- Right, I know that won't work
,
or there's a 10% chance that
that will work.
- Oh, already, since I said
that all this,
all this development and all
this hacking
had messed up my machine,
and I reinstalled my system
software,
there's three other messages
now of people saying,
well, my machine's been crappy
lately,
so I think it's all this iPod
or stuff.
And it may very well be some of
this iPod or stuff,
but it's just the thought, you
know,
hey, wait a minute, so that's,
you know,
whatever is quirky is probably
that.
- Yep.
- That's probably death.
- Yeah.
- So you wanna intro this song?
- But, oh, yeah.
It's a great song to listen to
when you just got dumped
and you wanna know how she
really feels.
(laughing)
Or the other way around.
- Okay.
- Or when you did the dumping
and somehow you can't get it
across,
now you feel about her.
(laughing)
- All right, this is Dan Hicks.
- Who's that, usually?
- What is it?
- Dan Hicks, he's from the hot
looks.
- Dan Hicks, yeah.
- Dan Hicks, actually it's Dan
Hicks and the hot looks.
- Yeah.
And the title of the song?
- Yeah.
How can I miss you when you won
't go away?
(wind blowing)
. (wind blowing)
(wind blowing)
(door opening)
(wind blowing)
- Whoa, that's what I call a
shit-kicking music.
(laughing)
- Oh, all their songs are like
that.
They have this sort of very che
ery little surface thing
going on, and in the meantime,
they're being about as cruel as
they could possibly be.
- Ah, that was great, that was
great.
I like songs like that.
- They have another song, they
have another song,
but it's not like that.
I can smell the coffee brewing.
I'll take mine black, you know,
it's good,
it's good to be back.
That's a beautiful song.
I got a little Western thing
going on too.
- I don't know.
- A little Western thing,
excuse me.
(laughing)
- Major.
- Shit-kicking music, boy.
- Major.
- You know what happens when,
you know what backmasking is,
you heard of that?
Backmasking, where you turn a
record,
you turn a vinyl record
backwards
and you hear hidden messages in
the 80s,
that was a big thing.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, I buried
Paul.
I buried Paul.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What happens when you play a
country song backwards?
- Punk.
- No, no, no, no, no.
You get your dog back, you get
your house back,
you get your wife back.
(laughing)
(clapping)
- Everybody, everybody.
(laughing)
- Yeah, I thought you'd like
that.
- Ouch.
- I thought you'd like that.
- Oh, God.
So what's your weather like
there?
- Today's nice, actually.
Yeah, it's all right.
Sun was shining a little bit.
- Let's talk with a Western tw
ang.
- Let's talk--
- Pretty nice, Davey.
Pretty nice, boy.
We have some, we have some
sunshine.
- How y'all do it?
(laughing)
- Sunshine.
- How y'all do it there?
- You build, how?
- You build a--
- Well, we all have a here,
a hornier than a cow pissing on
a flat rock.
(laughing)
- Now, I wanna tell you
something.
Davey caught George W. Bush
saying in the debate last night
that he called Uncle Osama and
his gang of tourists,
called them those folks.
- Those folks.
(laughing)
Remember, three September 10th,
those folks.
(laughing)
- Yeah, those folks.
John Stuart had a great line
for that.
Now I forgot what folks were.
- We should have downloaded
John's show.
I should have, I didn't get the
latest show yet.
- Fuck, we should get rid of,
just skip trade secrets
and just go ahead and download
his thing.
- And just play that.
(laughing)
Just play that.
Well, you know what, we need to
get some guests on the show.
I'm gonna get John Stuart on
trade secrets.
That I can make happen, I think
.
- Wow.
- Sure, sure, I can get John
Stuart on.
- Really?
- Wow.
- And we need to get Prince.
- Wow.
- We need to get Prince on
trade secrets.
Yeah, well, why not?
- Sure.
- I'm sure we sold at least
three audiobooks
for John Stuart.
Why should, why, you know.
He'll do it.
- Yeah, maybe we can sell three
more.
- I gotta call, I gotta call JB
.
JB in New York, he'll hook me
up with John, no problem.
I'm gonna get him on the show.
- Really?
- What do you wanna talk to him
about?
- I'd be very nervous.
I'm not sure I could do that.
- Oh, come on.
- John Stuart.
Eow.
- We just wanna have him on.
Just have him rag about the
bush and just be funny
and then we'll plug his book,
right?
- Yeah.
- Is not the way to talk to his
work.
And, well actually I was blown
away by that article
in NBC4 that you pointed to.
- Hey, isn't that beautiful,
huh?
- You know, put that, that was
something.
He said, here's the quote that
I pulled from that.
Podcasting is a term that is
probably unfamiliar
to most people, like everyone.
- Like everybody in the world.
(laughing)
- Podcasting is a term that is
probably
unfamiliar to most people, but
it represents
a real potential change in the
radio landscape.
- Fuckin' it.
- Now, that--
- That's a big statement from
NBC.
- Yeah, no shit.
So maybe you're expecting that
call from the NAB,
like maybe today or tomorrow,
or,
do they work on Saturday?
(laughing)
- No, no, no, no.
You can bomb 'em, you can bomb
'em on the weekends.
That's no problem.
(laughing)
They're closed, they're closed
for business.
- They don't work on Saturday.
- But no, but I mean--
- Well, but you'll get that
call on Monday morning for--
Never listen to your voicemail
when you come back
from a weekend away on Monday,
that's a bad idea.
(laughing)
- It could be the NAB shutting
you down.
- Yeah, but listen, but listen
--
- They have all their lawyers.
All their lawyers are Italian,
by the way.
I just thought I ought to
mention that.
- Well, I know several of the N
AB lawyers.
But you know what?
I think that, I think there's,
the problem is big
organizations like this
make knee-jerk reactions and
they'll freak out,
whereas really, all the radio
guys
that are checking this out,
and we've got everyone from Doc
Searles,
who's definitely a radio guy,
to Dr. Dave in Vegas, to Bumper
Morgan in Connecticut.
These are real radio guys in
heart and soul.
You go to their websites, they
've got air checks
and jingles and they all see
the opportunity.
They're all saying, fuck, this
is just another way
for us to broadcast, because
there really is no threat
other than that, the Clear
Channel,
which owns most stations in
America
with four other big, big
companies,
is that the only thing they can
be jealous of
is that we're not regulated,
so that's where they're gonna
start.
It's like we can say, fuck,
fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,
Al-Qaeda as much as you want.
- Yeah, fuck, fuck, fuck.
(laughing)
- Hold on a second, my money
transferred to Al-Qaeda
is slowing down my net
connection.
You can say whatever you want.
(laughing)
You can say whatever the hell
you want to say.
- Oh my God.
- So they're gonna hate that.
- Oh lord, oh lord, oh lord.
- But I'm also seeing, I'll
give you a great example
in a second, I'm also seeing,
you know, guys saying, well,
wait a minute,
this is just an extension of
the transmitter
and all the business models
will work, which I agree with.
But for instance, WGBH, the
morning stories
that I've been posting from a
guy who works there.
- Yeah, those are great.
- Yeah, hold on, let me just
see what his name is again.
- The last one with the
candidate,
that was really cool.
- The way you, the different
reads on the commercials.
- Yeah, they could sound like
we like him.
- Yeah, right, so Tony Khan, I
've been working with him
and he said, oh, this is so
cool, you know,
I'm gonna get GBH to set up an
RSS 2.0 feed.
So he comes back at me and I
haven't finished up
the email conversation with him
yet.
And he says, no, we've got the
feed.
And what they did is they,
indeed,
they created a feed of the
transcript
of the morning stories.
So not of the audio itself,
there's no enclosures.
And he said, well, you know,
there's still some political
problems with that.
And I'm like, oh man, we're so
fucking close.
And I know he can't help it.
- WNYC did something very
similar.
I took a quick look at their R
SS feed.
You remember when NPR came on
with all their RSS feeds?
And I noticed that WNYC,
which is the New York NPR
station, had enclosures.
So I wrote a thing, now the
scripting news is like,
oh my God, we're there.
I mean, they put the enclosures
on.
- Yeah, enclosures to what?
Real feeds or something?
- No, to a JPEG.
- Oh God.
- That's what he said.
- He's like, that's exactly
what I was waiting for.
There he goes.
So that's what was sitting
there in my folder
when I finished downloading.
Oh, and Adam, get this, get
this, get this.
They weren't even big JPEGs.
(laughing)
They were like, these are like
thumbnail footage.
- Wasn't like no animated gift
was popping up, right?
- They did a lot of bandwidth
there, I guess.
Glad we downloaded that in the
middle of the night.
- But here's where we're gonna
get the NAB.
Here's where we're gonna get
the NAB, Dave,
because you have one of these
applications.
There's also one with the Radio
Shark for Mac.
Because they love the fact
that you can time shift their
programming.
And because that just means
more goombas for them.
So the same technology that
allows you
to time shift a radio show by
subscription.
And there are a couple
companies doing this right now
that you either pay money for
it,
or you pay money for the
service,
or you pay money for the
software.
You're paying money somewhere.
But they are extending their
brand into our realm.
And why would they fight that?
I don't think, I think they're
gonna be too greedy.
They're gonna wanna have that.
And they'll leave the door.
You can't have one without the
other, right?
- Yeah, of course what you're
saying
makes perfect sense, but that
doesn't mean
that's what they're gonna do.
I mean, there were lots of
different,
I mean, when I first learned
about the web,
there were already a lot of
people in the web, right?
It wasn't like, oh wow, this is
Virgin Territory.
There were a lot of people
doing it, right?
And a lot of those people were
reporters, print reporters.
And they got linking, and they
had sort of,
I remember thinking how strange
this is,
because I don't understand what
the hell
they're talking about, but they
sure seem to believe in it.
(laughing)
And really, that came through
very clearly.
The first web project I did was
the strike paper,
San Francisco strike paper.
- Right, I remember that.
- Well, these reporters were
saying basically,
you have to preserve our links,
because that's part of the deal
, you know?
And another good example, I
mean, of course, that's great.
That's an old medium,
discovering a new medium
and going and falling in love,
right?
- Right.
- And the New York Times was
another good example.
They decided that it wasn't
automatic
that they would be number one
in the new medium.
So what they did was they bet
on the new medium,
really heavy and really early,
and it worked out great for
them.
I mean, they are, in some sense
, number one in the web.
And they were, in that same
sense,
number one in print beforehand.
But for every one of those,
you've got big media companies
that get completely trashed by
the web.
And then you ask yourself,
well, why didn't they jump on
it
like those reporters in San
Francisco
and why the New York Times?
Because they're the little
Dutch boy
with the finger in the night
thinking that,
if well, we don't even look at
it,
it's like Apple with the web.
Apple got completely rolled
over by the web.
And it was so stupid because
the early web
was more than 50% Macintosh.
- Well, Microsoft also got
rolled over by the web.
I remember their big turning of
the ship
trying to grab a hold.
- Tell me about it.
I wish I could tell you,
I know even more about that
today
than I did a couple of weeks
ago.
And it's, only they did it
differently.
They said, well, we know that
we could get rolled over
by this thing.
That was Bill Gates's logic in
1995,
is that if we don't do
something dramatic,
we will get rolled over by it.
So we'd better prevent that at
all costs.
So what they did was,
instead of putting their finger
in the deck like Apple did,
was they built the Hoover Dam
all around the world.
(all laughing)
- And then logic.
- Yeah, that's good.
- Yeah.
And I mean, it was a sheer,
like sort of,
you know, when the full
dimension of their invasion
of the web was clear, and this
was like 1996,
I was at a conference in
Phoenix
where they kind of unveiled it.
It was at an Esther Dyson
conference.
They unveiled how many
different fronts
they were attacking the web on.
And how they, it's kind of like
what we're seeing right now
with RSS and Yahoo.
You know, Yahoo comes in and,
you know,
they're quiet for a little
while
while they're getting their
shit together.
And then all of a sudden one
day,
they announced that basically
they're the new owners of RSS.
And by the way, we're all gonna
have to sign,
we're all gonna have to sign le
ases with them.
- Yeah, all your RSSs belong to
us.
(all laughing)
- Exactly.
And unfortunately for Yahoo,
you know, fuck that shit, right
?
- Yeah, really?
- I didn't say that about
Microsoft and the web
when I saw it, in fact, I read
a piece called
"Stalin' Go Home."
You know, basically, we don't
need your ass here.
Basically, you know, why don't
you just calm down a little bit
?
It's not really that serious,
you know?
And it didn't work.
And they, you know, they did
their hardcore thing
and attacked and attacked and
attacked.
And then they're sort of like
the kid
who's killed off all the other
kids in the neighborhood.
And they go, "Well, can we play
with them?"
- Yeah, we got all these toys
and we want to play.
- Maybe you should have thought
about that
before you killed them.
(all laughing)
It's like, maybe you should
have given that a little
thought
before you did all this sl
ashing and burning, you know?
But so, you'll probably see all
kinds of reactions.
And of course, talk about panic
.
You know, what happened with
Napster?
I mean, you know, basically, we
wouldn't be seeing
the Renaissance and music on
the net right now
that you're seeing, you know,
if it hadn't been for Napster.
And of course, lots of people
were saying that to them
at the time of Napster that you
guys really ought to be,
stop fighting this thing, '
cause instead, study it.
What is it that people lack
about this?
And then see how we can
negotiate something
where you don't have to feel
like you're being raped
for us to get what we want.
- And that's Andrew Ortauski's
point in his speeches,
where he's saying, "Look, you
guys, package music.
"You're just being lazy motherf
uckers.
"Find out different ways to
package music.
"You know, there's lots and
lots and lots."
What is it?
"Green Day" now just released
their album, their new album,
and they store with it, or they
sell you with it,
I think eight or 10 blank CDs,
but with each with a different
Green Day logo on the CD.
So he's like, "Go ahead, burn
this,
"and then you can either sell
it or give it away
"or do whatever, but at least
it's an official-looking
"Green Day thing, and it's not
some crappy-looking--
- Look, that clever.
- Of course it's clever, and
that's where it has to go.
That's personalized stuff, and
people will buy that.
I mean, people like goodies,
they like gadgets,
but you've gotta do it smarter.
- That's a renegotiation.
That's a renegotiation right
there.
- Well, that's the problem,
Dave,
is big companies like record
companies can't do that.
They can't go back and renegoti
ate everything.
- Wrong, that's incorrect.
The record company can.
- Not with their shareholders,
they can't.
Not with their shareholders.
- With their very little pen
ises and their soliloquies,
they can't get--
(laughing)
- They can't.
- I don't think their
shareholders will let them do
it.
It's a whole--
Ahmed Erdogan, who started
Atlantic Records
by selling him out of the trunk
of his car,
is not gonna fucking let it
happen.
He refuses to understand.
I know that.
This is the most stubbornest
man you've ever met.
- Really?
(laughing)
But if he sold his, he sold
those discs
out of the trunk of his car,
then he's got to understand an
opportunity
when he sees one.
- Yeah, but understanding this
opportunity, Dave,
is not the simplest thing, you
know?
Come on.
- I heard that guy interviewed
on NPR.
I thought, what was his name
again?
- Ortauski, Andrew Ortauski?
- No, no, that's Andrew Orl
owski.
- Orlowski, not Ortauski. - Orl
owski.
- Orlowski. - Right, but the
guy,
Atlantic Records guy--
- Ahmed. - Ahmed Erdogan.
- He's Turkish?
- Yes.
- Yeah, I heard him interviewed
on NPR.
I thought he was great.
- He is great, he's a legend.
He's a legend.
But so far--
- But he loves music.
He loves music, though.
- Yeah, he also loves getting
paid for music.
- Yeah, well, let's get him on
trade secrets.
I wanna talk with that guy.
- Hey, Adam, Adam, Dave, all
right,
let me tell you the fucking MP3
, download his shit.
Hey, hey, hey, it's Ahmed here,
Ahmed Erdogan.
Hey, let me tell you, when I
started
fucking Atlantic Records, I saw
this shit
out of my back of my car.
- I know him, he would be great
.
He would be great.
I guarantee you, I promise you,
when we're talking about these
people,
we're gonna get him on the show
.
There's enough people I know
who have the roads to Ahmed,
who could probably convince him
.
Shit, I think you're gonna--
- I love to get him on here.
- Yeah.
- Never mind, let's talk about,
he told this story about
Professor Longhair, okay,
that would bring tears to your
eyes.
I mean, maybe it's not true.
Maybe he didn't discover
Professor Longhair.
- He probably did.
- But it was a great story.
It was a really great story.
And Professor Longhair is one
incredible performer.
I've seen Professor Longhair
play.
And Adam, you're no Professor
Longhair.
- You know what, I'm not.
I'm not.
Ted Kennedy, however.
(laughing)
Hey Dave, listen, I've got
macaroni sitting on the table.
We gotta leave in an hour, and
I still have to
compress this fucker down to an
MP3 and upload it.
But I have a long story, I have
a long story I wanna tell you.
I wanna have a story I've gotta
tell you.
It's really long.
- But why don't we tease our
listeners
that your long, long, long sol
iloquy
will be available on the next
trade secrets?
That way people will be anxious
and awaiting it.
And they can't wait to hear it.
It's called a cliffhanger.
- I want some of that macaroni,
all right?
- Let me tell you, my in-laws
are here.
'Cause they're gonna stay here
with Christina.
And then my father-in-law is
now packing
little buds of marijuana into a
tea packet,
packets for us to take England
with us.
(laughing)
- Oh, what a great father-in-
law.
- Isn't he awesome?
Isn't he awesome?
- He does.
He really loves you.
- Yeah, I love him too,
absolutely.
This is what family's all about
, you know?
(laughing)
- Aw, aw, ain't that cute.
- Yeah, sure is, buddy.
Did he save a little bit for
your daughter
so she can get high while you
're--
- No, she has no interest.
She has no interest in smoking
whatsoever.
No interest in alcohol either.
- Me too.
Me too, I don't do any of that
shit, no way.
I used to, but I don't anymore.
- Yeah, well, 'cause it kills--
- All right, Adam, will you--
Yeah, totally.
- All right, dude.
- It's a killer.
I got some killer weed here.
Yeah, I have a great time.
- Wait a minute, you just
confused me.
You said you got some killer
weed there?
- No, no, no, no, killer weed,
literally would you--
- Oh, literally, literally,
okay.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Damn, I'm like.
I can reroute the flight from
London to Seattle,
no problem.
(laughing)
All right, let's get the fuck
out of here, Dave.
I'll talk to you soon, buddy,
have a good weekend.
- Okay, bye everybody.
I'll see you all later.
- Bye, bye.
♪ Throw 'em up, it's trade
secrets ♪
♪ Throw 'em up, it's trade
secrets now ♪
♪ The boomyest cruise gum
beats for you, boy ♪
♪ It's trade secrets, trade
secrets ♪
♪ Trade secrets ♪
♪ These heads will finally pe
ep this ♪
♪ Trade secrets ♪