WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.000 [Music] 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.000 I got it! 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:13.000 [Music] 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:15.000 Good afternoon everybody! 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.000 Oh yeah! 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:19.000 Adam Curry in Palo Alto. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:21.000 And Dave Weiner in Palo Alto. 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:22.000 Yeah! 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000 Ain't that something, man? 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.000 Is this the first time, Dave, 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:25.000 that we're doing this together? 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:26.480 Oh yeah, this is the first time 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:27.000 , man. 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.970 It's like the one, the zero 00:00:28.970 --> 00:00:31.000 time zone trade secrets. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.060 Yowzo, I'm trying to think, 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:33.810 should I look at you or should 00:00:33.810 --> 00:00:34.000 I? 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.000 Oh, shit. 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.000 I wouldn't blame you. 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:37.000 Clearly not. 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:37.680 I wouldn't blame you if you 00:00:37.680 --> 00:00:38.000 didn't. 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.000 It's alright, I mean, you know. 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.260 So let me just explain the 00:00:41.260 --> 00:00:42.000 setup here. 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.140 We're in my room at the Ricky 00:00:45.140 --> 00:00:47.000 Lee Jones Hyatt. 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.000 Hickey's Riot, actually. 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.000 Ricky's Riot. 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.000 Ricky's Riot. 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.000 The Riot Hyatt. 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:56.000 And, yeah. 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.000 Palo Alto, California. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.000 Yeah, Sunday afternoon. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.000 It is November 7th, 2004. 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.470 Let's see, time is, what are we 00:01:04.470 --> 00:01:05.000 at here? 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.000 4.30. 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.010 And so we got two microphones, 00:01:09.010 --> 00:01:10.000 which is cool. 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.310 Because Dave is wearing my love 00:01:14.310 --> 00:01:16.000 microphone. 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.000 And I've got this new USB thing 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:18.690 , which I'm still trying to 00:01:18.690 --> 00:01:21.000 figure out if I like it. 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:22.000 It sounds okay, though. 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.000 So how you feeling? 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.000 Day after a blogger call. 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:27.150 I'm wearing the lav mic, so I 00:01:27.150 --> 00:01:28.280 wonder if that means I can 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:29.800 speak Dutch and let the dog out 00:01:29.800 --> 00:01:30.000 . 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.890 Yeah, but only if you roll up 00:01:32.890 --> 00:01:35.000 my spliff as well. 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:36.730 Well, they don't let me do that 00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:37.000 . 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.250 Unfortunately, I can't join you 00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:40.000 in that. 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:41.000 I'm sorry. 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:42.000 Yeah, I'm tired. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:44.000 It's been, you know, whatever. 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:45.750 For everybody else, blogger 00:01:45.750 --> 00:01:47.220 cons a one day or two day or 00:01:47.220 --> 00:01:48.000 three day. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.670 In your case, I guess, what, 00:01:49.670 --> 00:01:51.000 four or five day thing? 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:53.000 Yeah, in total. 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:54.000 For me, it was... 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.000 It was a couple months. 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:56.260 It started in the summer, 00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:57.000 basically. 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.100 It was after the Democratic 00:01:59.100 --> 00:02:00.000 Convention. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.000 That's when you got started. 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:02.470 And they saw me on The Daily 00:02:02.470 --> 00:02:04.000 Show with John Stewart. 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.310 They were talking about me on 00:02:05.310 --> 00:02:06.400 The Daily Show with John 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:07.000 Stewart. 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:08.000 And apparently... 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:09.000 About you? 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:10.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:11.000 Oh, yeah. 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:12.000 And apparently... 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:13.000 What do you think? 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.000 Right, and this was the deal. 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.020 Because going to Harvard didn't 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:16.000 get Stanford interested. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:17.000 Seeing you on Stewart. 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:18.790 Going to the Silicon Valley 00:02:18.790 --> 00:02:21.040 icon for 20 years didn't get me 00:02:21.040 --> 00:02:22.000 an invite. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.160 Being on The Daily Show, or 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:26.110 mentioned on The Daily Show, 00:02:26.110 --> 00:02:27.000 has been proven. 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:28.000 It's a real draw. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.560 What happened was they were 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:31.560 covering the blogger, what they 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:33.200 called blogger boulevard at the 00:02:33.200 --> 00:02:34.000 DNC. 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:35.000 Right. 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:36.000 They were there as well, right? 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:37.000 The Daily Show? 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.000 I actually didn't see them. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:38.840 Samantha Bee, I think, was 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:39.620 running around talking to 00:02:39.620 --> 00:02:40.000 people. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:41.250 Yeah, they were doing sort of 00:02:41.250 --> 00:02:42.000 weird things. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:43.250 So they walked up to a blogger 00:02:43.250 --> 00:02:44.580 and they said, you know, what's 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:45.000 the deal? 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.000 Any real bloggers here? 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:48.680 And whoever it was said, yeah, 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:50.380 Dave Weiner from Scripting News 00:02:50.380 --> 00:02:51.000 is here. 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:52.000 Yeah. 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.320 And so then they saw that at 00:02:53.320 --> 00:02:54.000 Stanford. 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:55.370 And apparently, this is like a 00:02:55.370 --> 00:02:56.880 big academic credential getting 00:02:56.880 --> 00:02:58.000 mentioned on The Daily 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.000 Show with... 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:00.000 It's an academic credential? 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:01.000 Apparently. 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:02.000 Apparently. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:03.000 I love it. 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:04.410 I mean, you know, with all due 00:03:04.410 --> 00:03:05.000 respect. 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.000 I mean, they were very nice. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.580 Stanford was very good and the 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:10.000 facilities were great. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:10.690 Stanford, I thought, was 00:03:10.690 --> 00:03:11.000 awesome. 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:12.000 Really? 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:13.430 Yeah, they don't really have 00:03:13.430 --> 00:03:14.640 campuses like that in the 00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:16.000 Netherlands, do they? 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:17.000 No. 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.000 I mean, there's... 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:18.630 I don't think there's anything 00:03:18.630 --> 00:03:19.000 even... 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:20.000 It is exactly... 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:21.000 Well, Harvard was like that. 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:21.590 Well, it made a little bit 00:03:21.590 --> 00:03:22.000 different. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:23.820 I think Stanford is pretty much 00:03:23.820 --> 00:03:25.640 the picture-perfect image of a 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:27.000 university campus. 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:28.000 It's pretty good. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:29.000 You know what I mean? 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.000 Yeah. 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:30.450 And people are doing 00:03:30.450 --> 00:03:31.000 interesting stuff. 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:32.360 There was a dance marathon 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:33.820 against age yesterday or the 00:03:33.820 --> 00:03:35.000 day before Friday. 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.000 Right, that's right. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.490 Or they were soliciting people 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:38.000 for it. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.000 I don't know. 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:41.000 It's just... 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:42.490 And you see people walking 00:03:42.490 --> 00:03:44.020 around with disregard for 00:03:44.020 --> 00:03:46.000 traffic because there is none. 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.700 But totally in this elevated 00:03:48.700 --> 00:03:51.100 state of I'm learning, I'm 00:03:51.100 --> 00:03:52.280 intelligent, I'm having a good 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:53.000 time, 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:54.000 I'm floating on air. 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.000 You know what I mean? 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:56.000 Does that make any sense? 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:56.580 No, that sounds really dreamy 00:03:56.580 --> 00:03:57.000 and ridiculous. 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:57.770 Maybe I need to roll up another 00:03:57.770 --> 00:03:58.000 one. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:59.000 Hold on. 00:03:59.000 --> 00:03:59.530 I think you need to get your 00:03:59.530 --> 00:04:00.000 daughter... 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.450 I think your secret success of 00:04:01.450 --> 00:04:02.870 your podcast is that you have 00:04:02.870 --> 00:04:04.000 your daughter around to keep 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:05.000 your bullshit in. 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:06.000 That's right, Dad. 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.000 Shep a fuck up. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:08.000 Stop that. 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.000 Stop lying. 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.250 I guess I sort of have to play 00:04:10.250 --> 00:04:11.000 that role here. 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:13.000 No, that's not what's going on. 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:15.260 First of all, we got very, very 00:04:15.260 --> 00:04:17.000 lucky on the weather. 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:18.000 Right on. 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.360 The weather doesn't have to be 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:20.000 this nice. 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:21.000 Praise the gods. 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:22.000 And early... 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:23.280 Yeah, I mean that's a thank god 00:04:23.280 --> 00:04:24.000 sort of thing. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:25.640 And Stanford is kind of in an 00:04:25.640 --> 00:04:27.000 idyllic location. 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.110 I mean it's from weather and 00:04:29.110 --> 00:04:30.870 landscape and it's very 00:04:30.870 --> 00:04:32.000 beautiful. 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.510 And yeah, I mean we had, I 00:04:35.510 --> 00:04:38.350 thought, well there's something 00:04:38.350 --> 00:04:40.000 incredible that happens. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.930 We play sort of a bit of rou 00:04:42.930 --> 00:04:46.300 lette with how many people we 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:49.000 open the roles up to. 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.010 We don't know what the no show 00:04:50.010 --> 00:04:50.890 rate is going to be, who's 00:04:50.890 --> 00:04:53.000 going to be there and what not. 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.540 But somehow it just ends up 00:04:54.540 --> 00:04:56.350 that the right number of people 00:04:56.350 --> 00:04:57.000 show up. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.750 And it was consistent every 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:00.000 single session. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.000 Yeah, it was 90% full. 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.930 Because I was walking from room 00:05:03.930 --> 00:05:05.000 to room. 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:07.620 And after lunch, I actually don 00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:09.840 't think I could sit in any of 00:05:09.840 --> 00:05:11.000 the rooms. 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.000 Really? 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:13.740 I was standing room only for 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:15.000 like two people. 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.000 Oh, right. 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.000 So it was perfect. 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:18.200 It's alright because I kept 00:05:18.200 --> 00:05:19.000 leaving anyway. 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:20.350 Yeah, I was so afraid that 00:05:20.350 --> 00:05:22.000 during the podcasting session 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:23.000 that the other two sessions 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:23.000 wouldn't 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:24.000 have any traffic. 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.760 Yeah, it was really interesting 00:05:25.760 --> 00:05:26.000 . 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.030 There was a woman from BBC who 00:05:28.030 --> 00:05:30.110 came and she came all the way 00:05:30.110 --> 00:05:32.000 from the UK, I thought, to 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:33.840 be part of the podcasting 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:35.000 discussion. 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.300 And when I poked my head into 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:37.860 the newbie session that Rebecca 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:40.000 McKinnon was leading, she was 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.000 there. 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.000 She was there. 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:43.000 So that was where -- 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:43.860 Which is where she belonged 00:05:43.860 --> 00:05:44.830 probably if she wanted to learn 00:05:44.830 --> 00:05:45.000 . 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:47.040 Rebecca, it was really funny 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.060 because I talked with Rebecca 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:51.000 as we were planning this. 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.670 And she had been at Blagercon 2 00:05:53.670 --> 00:05:56.000 but not at Blagercon 1. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:57.130 And she had done the 00:05:57.130 --> 00:05:59.140 international discussion at the 00:05:59.140 --> 00:06:00.000 first one. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.680 And she was a good choice for 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.600 that because she spent so many 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.000 years in China and Japan. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.540 And I think she was even in 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:11.000 Korea for some time. 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000 Really? 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.490 And in the closing session at 00:06:14.490 --> 00:06:16.900 these Blagercons, we always 00:06:16.900 --> 00:06:19.480 sort of ask, what could we do 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:20.000 better 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.000 next time? 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.940 What should we do differently 00:06:22.940 --> 00:06:24.000 and so forth? 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.750 And one of the things that came 00:06:25.750 --> 00:06:27.300 up that I had forgotten was 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:29.000 that at the first Blagercon 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:31.250 we had a whole track for new 00:06:31.250 --> 00:06:32.000 bies. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.430 And just the whole idea at that 00:06:34.430 --> 00:06:36.860 time was trying to sort of indo 00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:39.320 ctrinate and evangelize the 00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:41.500 Harvard community on web blogs. 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:42.800 And then somehow we lost that 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:43.500 in number two. 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:45.100 And we didn't have anything for 00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:45.760 newbies. 00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:47.790 And so we brought it back and 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:50.160 it was wonderful to see this. 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:51.570 And not only was it for blog 00:06:51.570 --> 00:06:53.240 ging newbies but it was also for 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:55.000 Blagercon newbies, for people 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:56.610 who weren't familiar with the 00:06:56.610 --> 00:06:58.000 unconference format. 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.620 And so there were 14 sessions 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:02.640 so it's impossible to even 00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:04.240 review them all. 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:06.550 There was only two that I didn 00:07:06.550 --> 00:07:08.980 't actually participate in in 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:10.400 some fashion. 00:07:10.400 --> 00:07:13.260 There was a quality, there was 00:07:13.260 --> 00:07:15.840 a variance in qualities. 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:17.660 Sometimes people were up and 00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:19.340 there was really exciting 00:07:19.340 --> 00:07:20.440 discussions. 00:07:20.440 --> 00:07:21.860 I thought the podcasting 00:07:21.860 --> 00:07:23.020 session went beyond 00:07:23.020 --> 00:07:24.080 expectations. 00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:25.340 And the only expectation we 00:07:25.340 --> 00:07:26.700 really had was as long as we're 00:07:26.700 --> 00:07:27.840 all in the same room and 00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:28.930 meet each other, we already 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:29.780 have, that was what we 00:07:29.780 --> 00:07:30.870 discussed because we really 00:07:30.870 --> 00:07:31.240 wanted 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:32.240 to get out of it. 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:33.760 It's so hard to do anything 00:07:33.760 --> 00:07:35.380 like that in an hour and 15 00:07:35.380 --> 00:07:36.160 minutes. 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:37.550 Complicated ideas don't really 00:07:37.550 --> 00:07:38.740 come out in situations like 00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:39.160 this. 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:40.160 They do not. 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:41.160 They totally don't. 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.050 I mean that's what you do I 00:07:43.050 --> 00:07:44.940 guess in your sort of solo 00:07:44.940 --> 00:07:47.160 podcast and the writing that 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:48.350 we do on the blogs and stuff 00:07:48.350 --> 00:07:49.000 like that. 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:51.240 No, it was important. 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.170 First of all, what was really 00:07:53.170 --> 00:07:54.950 cool about this was that the 00:07:54.950 --> 00:07:57.240 podcasters were just like, 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:58.760 God, they were just such 00:07:58.760 --> 00:08:00.690 positive, smiling, happy people 00:08:00.690 --> 00:08:00.960 . 00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:01.960 Yeah, weren't they though? 00:08:01.960 --> 00:08:02.960 Dave Slusser. 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.870 I mean, you know, I had no idea 00:08:03.870 --> 00:08:04.820 what Dave Slusser looked like, 00:08:04.820 --> 00:08:05.200 right? 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:06.200 I didn't either. 00:08:06.200 --> 00:08:07.200 I never met him. 00:08:07.200 --> 00:08:08.200 Dave's long hair. 00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:09.200 He's got long hair. 00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:10.210 Well, I'd seen a picture but 00:08:10.210 --> 00:08:11.200 you couldn't really see how 00:08:11.200 --> 00:08:12.010 long the hair was in the 00:08:12.010 --> 00:08:12.560 picture. 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:14.360 That wasn't my image at all. 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:15.360 Really? 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:16.360 No. 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:17.030 What did you think he would 00:08:17.030 --> 00:08:17.360 look like? 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:18.360 Oh my gosh. 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:20.630 I can't think of, you know, I 00:08:20.630 --> 00:08:22.950 don't want to like, I want to 00:08:22.950 --> 00:08:24.800 give you a name of an actor 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:25.800 or something like that. 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:26.800 Yeah, right. 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:27.800 Actors are always good. 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:29.880 Right, but it's like, I'm not 00:08:29.880 --> 00:08:30.800 thinking. 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:31.800 It's no big deal. 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:32.800 Don't worry about it. 00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:34.630 I thought straighter and not 00:08:34.630 --> 00:08:36.600 smiling so much, you know what 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:37.280 I mean? 00:08:37.280 --> 00:08:38.280 Oh really? 00:08:38.280 --> 00:08:39.280 No, I told you. 00:08:39.280 --> 00:08:40.320 I think about Dave Slusser is 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:41.400 the guy smiling all the time. 00:08:41.400 --> 00:08:42.520 Same thing with Dawn and Drew. 00:08:42.520 --> 00:08:43.790 They have this, you know, sort 00:08:43.790 --> 00:08:44.920 of twinkle in their eye. 00:08:44.920 --> 00:08:45.920 They do. 00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:46.910 She's a lot cuter than I 00:08:46.910 --> 00:08:47.840 thought she'd be. 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:48.840 Let me tell you that. 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:49.820 So I hung out with them last 00:08:49.820 --> 00:08:50.200 night. 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:51.200 Yeah, I know. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:51.980 Oh, you went to the movies with 00:08:51.980 --> 00:08:52.200 them. 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:53.160 Yeah, well, before I get to 00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:54.200 that part, before I get to that 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:55.280 part, we came up with one thing 00:08:55.280 --> 00:08:56.760 about that was needed at Blog 00:08:56.760 --> 00:08:57.360 gerCon. 00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:58.360 What's that? 00:08:58.360 --> 00:08:59.780 And this is, you know, this is 00:08:59.780 --> 00:09:00.970 totally a Dawn and Drew and 00:09:00.970 --> 00:09:01.960 Adam discussion. 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:02.770 Let me just make sure we're 00:09:02.770 --> 00:09:03.480 still recording. 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:05.280 We're doing good. 00:09:05.280 --> 00:09:06.450 So at the end, someone 00:09:06.450 --> 00:09:07.970 suggested in a rather brutal 00:09:07.970 --> 00:09:09.710 way, but you know, it was like, 00:09:09.710 --> 00:09:10.200 well, 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:11.160 I'm sort of just drinks that 00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:12.180 rot our teeth out, can we have 00:09:12.180 --> 00:09:12.760 some water? 00:09:12.760 --> 00:09:13.760 Yeah, no kidding. 00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:14.760 Totally. 00:09:14.760 --> 00:09:16.400 So Dawn and Drew and I say, you 00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:18.030 know, and we also think a bowl 00:09:18.030 --> 00:09:18.960 of tic-tacs. 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:19.960 Yeah. 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:21.680 That would be good. 00:09:21.680 --> 00:09:22.780 Because you know, you sit in 00:09:22.780 --> 00:09:23.940 there all day and you don't eat 00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:25.480 and you're drinking coffee. 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:26.220 And you get the shitty breath 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:26.880 after it's all over. 00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:27.640 That's what the tic-tacs are 00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:27.880 for. 00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:28.880 Believe me. 00:09:28.880 --> 00:09:30.080 I was walking around the same 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:30.880 place you were. 00:09:30.880 --> 00:09:32.190 Yeah, that place kind of had a 00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:33.560 little thing going there. 00:09:33.560 --> 00:09:34.560 We got kind of stanky. 00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:36.310 Well, you know, the water, we 00:09:36.310 --> 00:09:37.320 ordered water. 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:38.320 The water, I did just in show. 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:39.830 Oh man, I just, you know, I don 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:40.400 't know. 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:41.870 Well, you don't see me all that 00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:43.550 often, but like I always was a 00:09:43.550 --> 00:09:44.720 bottle of water. 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:45.720 Yeah, sure. 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.020 And so I said, we need to have, 00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:48.270 that was the first thing I said 00:09:48.270 --> 00:09:48.520 . 00:09:48.520 --> 00:09:49.900 We got to have bottled water 00:09:49.900 --> 00:09:51.460 during the breaks, but I don't 00:09:51.460 --> 00:09:51.920 know. 00:09:51.920 --> 00:09:52.920 What happened? 00:09:52.920 --> 00:09:53.920 Yeah, well. 00:09:53.920 --> 00:09:54.920 That's all that went wrong. 00:09:54.920 --> 00:09:55.920 Right. 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:56.920 That's what I'm going to say. 00:09:56.920 --> 00:09:57.940 I was just basically thanking 00:09:57.940 --> 00:09:58.860 the good Lord and Murphy and 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:00.840 whoever else that, you know, 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:02.580 yeah, the other thing is, and 00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:04.190 this is always a problem, is 00:10:04.190 --> 00:10:06.160 that the air conditioning never 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:07.610 supports the number of bodies 00:10:07.610 --> 00:10:08.640 we put in the room. 00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:09.640 That didn't bother me. 00:10:09.640 --> 00:10:10.640 I had no problem with the air. 00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:11.640 No, I'm usually so. 00:10:11.640 --> 00:10:12.640 It got a little stuffy. 00:10:12.640 --> 00:10:13.640 It got a little stuffy there. 00:10:13.640 --> 00:10:14.680 Yeah, near the end of the pot, 00:10:14.680 --> 00:10:15.840 but I was also just, you know. 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:16.950 Yeah, you were the one that was 00:10:16.950 --> 00:10:18.160 eating the room up basically. 00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:19.720 Yeah, adrenaline was flowing 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:21.100 and I was getting warm, so I 00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:22.640 totally felt that at a certain 00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:24.850 point, but it was not bad at 00:10:24.850 --> 00:10:25.480 all. 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:27.780 And I just wanted to say that 00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:30.580 the, what'd you call them, your 00:10:30.580 --> 00:10:32.440 monitors, that what you 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:33.440 call them? 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:34.440 Yeah, we call them monitors. 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:35.440 Yeah, monitors. 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.020 They were, I mean, you couldn't 00:10:37.020 --> 00:10:37.880 tire them out. 00:10:37.880 --> 00:10:38.880 No, they were great. 00:10:38.880 --> 00:10:40.400 Jerry Springer would give his 00:10:40.400 --> 00:10:41.860 left nut to have these people 00:10:41.860 --> 00:10:43.240 holding the mic in his audience 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:43.440 . 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:44.440 Yeah. 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:45.490 Or Oprah or whoever, and they 00:10:45.490 --> 00:10:46.280 were really good. 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:47.720 And Mike the AV, Mike was the 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:48.600 name, right? 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.010 Yeah, every guy liked Mike, 00:10:50.010 --> 00:10:50.440 yeah. 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:52.520 He was like a gargoyle. 00:10:52.520 --> 00:10:54.300 He had this pack and he had all 00:10:54.300 --> 00:10:55.780 this stuff on him and he had 00:10:55.780 --> 00:10:56.990 all kinds of bags and 00:10:56.990 --> 00:10:58.000 everything, 00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:58.810 which he didn't have to, oh, 00:10:58.810 --> 00:10:59.600 because everything worked. 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:00.600 Yeah, pretty much. 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:02.360 He could split the screens, the 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.110 audio was there, you know, the 00:11:04.110 --> 00:11:05.440 wireless mic's always 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:06.700 crap out once in a while, but 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:08.160 you know, it's whatever, and it 00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:08.960 just worked. 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.340 It was high quality shit, I 00:11:10.340 --> 00:11:10.960 thought. 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:11.960 Well, it wasn't just him. 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:13.160 It was also John Harrison who 00:11:13.160 --> 00:11:13.800 does the AV. 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:14.560 John Harrison, John Harrison, 00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:14.800 yeah. 00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:16.760 For a standard, he wasn't there 00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:18.800 , but all the setup and stuff. 00:11:18.800 --> 00:11:20.460 And that's his system, 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:21.520 basically. 00:11:21.520 --> 00:11:23.280 Right, that was cool. 00:11:23.280 --> 00:11:25.720 And it's a good school. 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:26.920 I mean, they basically have 00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:27.840 great facilities. 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.280 And yeah, that worked. 00:11:30.280 --> 00:11:32.500 The major problem was actually 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:34.520 the registration system and 00:11:34.520 --> 00:11:35.360 badges. 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:36.600 That was pretty funny because I 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:37.560 wasn't registered. 00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:38.560 Right, yeah. 00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:39.690 And my friend Ron was 00:11:39.690 --> 00:11:41.480 registered as number eight. 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:42.480 Yeah, I registered. 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:44.480 And then he became me. 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:45.480 He stole my identity. 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.310 Yeah, well, you're lucky we let 00:11:47.310 --> 00:11:48.480 you in, you know. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.020 Well, they weren't going to let 00:11:50.020 --> 00:11:50.480 me in. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:51.480 I'm really sorry. 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:52.100 Well, like they were told not 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:52.480 to let you in. 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:54.000 Jennifer, who was the, yeah, 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:54.920 Jennifer Sander. 00:11:54.920 --> 00:11:56.170 Jennifer happens to be the 00:11:56.170 --> 00:11:57.450 executive director of their 00:11:57.450 --> 00:11:59.000 Internet and Society Center. 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:00.000 Yeah, okay, well. 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.300 She's kind of like, you know, 00:12:01.300 --> 00:12:02.500 she's like the boss's boss's 00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:03.560 boss of everybody, except 00:12:03.560 --> 00:12:04.560 for Larry. 00:12:04.560 --> 00:12:05.560 Right. 00:12:05.560 --> 00:12:06.560 She was Larry's boss. 00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:07.110 Yeah, she recognized that I 00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:07.800 should probably get a badge. 00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:08.800 Yeah. 00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:10.270 And we basically had a policy 00:12:10.270 --> 00:12:11.800 that, you know, we were going 00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:13.160 to basically try to have a 00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:14.800 streamlined for the people that 00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:16.360 , you know, we knew that there 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:17.800 were people who would show 00:12:17.800 --> 00:12:19.440 that hadn't registered. 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:20.800 In fact, they had emailed me to 00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:21.240 that. 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:22.240 There must have been. 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:23.700 How many do you think crashed 00:12:23.700 --> 00:12:24.800 just last minute? 00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:25.800 Probably 20? 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:26.800 Who cares? 00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:27.800 I don't really know. 00:12:27.800 --> 00:12:28.800 It doesn't matter. 00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:29.400 I'm just interested as a 00:12:29.400 --> 00:12:29.800 percentage. 00:12:29.800 --> 00:12:30.540 It's really, really impossible 00:12:30.540 --> 00:12:30.800 to say. 00:12:30.800 --> 00:12:32.280 I mean, that's the funny thing. 00:12:32.280 --> 00:12:33.420 You would think that we would 00:12:33.420 --> 00:12:34.530 have a way of knowing even, I 00:12:34.530 --> 00:12:35.560 don't even know how many 00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:36.800 people were there at them. 00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:37.800 I mean, you know. 00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:39.390 I mean, because there were lots 00:12:39.390 --> 00:12:40.670 of no shows and there were lots 00:12:40.670 --> 00:12:41.760 of people who weren't 00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:44.450 registered that ended up coming 00:12:44.450 --> 00:12:44.760 . 00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:46.010 So yeah, I mean, we're going to 00:12:46.010 --> 00:12:47.350 estimate that because basically 00:12:47.350 --> 00:12:49.840 I'm going to go by 90%. 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.460 Basically say 90% of our 00:12:51.460 --> 00:12:53.440 capacity was full at all times. 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.860 And not that you really sort of 00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:58.280 get any, you know, data from 00:12:58.280 --> 00:13:00.440 that for the next time. 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:01.990 Because you know, every time we 00:13:01.990 --> 00:13:03.460 do it, the show is bigger, you 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:04.000 know. 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:05.000 Yeah. 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:05.920 And so by extrapolation, when 00:13:05.920 --> 00:13:06.790 we think they, you know, the 00:13:06.790 --> 00:13:07.000 next. 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.840 That was a good point that 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:09.040 someone brought up, you know. 00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:10.360 What do we do next year? 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:11.360 Well. 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:12.360 Shea Stadium? 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:13.360 No. 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:14.360 No. 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:15.800 And I think the format is kind 00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:17.060 of, it's kind of already 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:18.760 getting a little old actually. 00:13:18.760 --> 00:13:20.080 A little tired? 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.080 I think so. 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:22.080 Yeah. 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.040 I mean, I, you know, I kind of, 00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:23.880 it's like an, almost like an 00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:24.600 engineering thing. 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.570 I kind of want to figure out if 00:13:26.570 --> 00:13:28.200 there isn't a way to. 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:29.200 Turbocharge it. 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.590 Or, well, you know, because 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:33.720 yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.290 I mean, I did in a couple of 00:13:35.290 --> 00:13:36.640 sessions that I was in. 00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:39.310 I tried in a, like in the, in 00:13:39.310 --> 00:13:42.120 the core values of the web that 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.800 Mary Hodder was leading. 00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:45.800 Yeah, I saw some of that. 00:13:45.800 --> 00:13:47.290 They kind of, I thought, had 00:13:47.290 --> 00:13:49.040 gotten, and I want to be clear. 00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:50.150 This was just my opinion 00:13:50.150 --> 00:13:51.660 because there were other people 00:13:51.660 --> 00:13:53.080 that felt it was going really 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:54.080 good. 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:55.120 I walked into it and I thought, 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:56.210 well, these, it's bogged down 00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:56.520 here. 00:13:56.520 --> 00:13:58.600 It's not getting anywhere. 00:13:58.600 --> 00:13:59.960 And so I said, why don't we 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:01.340 just put the mics down for a 00:14:01.340 --> 00:14:02.960 while and like just shout out 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:03.080 what 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:04.080 you want to say. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:05.080 Let's see what's formal. 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:06.080 They do want to do it. 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:07.080 Oh, really? 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:08.080 Yeah. 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.080 And I, and I respect it. 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:10.080 It was funny. 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.660 Well, I mean, Stacey Kramer, 00:14:13.660 --> 00:14:16.080 she was there from. 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:17.080 She's in the hotel. 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:18.080 Yeah. 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.080 She wants to talk about. 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.080 Big content. 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:21.080 She also had written. 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:21.780 She's an online journalism 00:14:21.780 --> 00:14:22.080 review. 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:22.950 She has written for an online 00:14:22.950 --> 00:14:23.920 journalism review and for Wired 00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:24.080 . 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:25.420 She writes for Wired News and 00:14:25.420 --> 00:14:26.080 stuff too. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.080 And she, she was funny. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.360 You know, when I suggested, she 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.400 turned around and she says, we 00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:34.080 can't do that, Dave. 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.080 Don't hold the mic. 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:37.020 And it was like, and then she 00:14:37.020 --> 00:14:38.080 caught herself. 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.140 She says, uh, you know, this is 00:14:40.140 --> 00:14:41.080 how I fight. 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:42.080 That's just how I feel. 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:44.080 It was like, cool. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:45.080 All right. 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:46.130 And later on she came, she said 00:14:46.130 --> 00:14:47.210 , you know, I got, I hope I didn 00:14:47.210 --> 00:14:48.080 't hurt your feelings. 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:50.480 And I said, no, I mean, real 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.080 emotion is good. 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:53.080 That's what we want. 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:54.080 Yeah. 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:55.220 Well, I said, all we, all we 00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:56.390 caught you doing, Stacey was 00:14:56.390 --> 00:14:57.080 being human. 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:58.080 Yeah. 00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.080 Stop that. 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.190 Which is really in a way, it's 00:15:01.190 --> 00:15:03.310 sort of like, if we get people 00:15:03.310 --> 00:15:05.080 to behave human in these 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:07.080 conferences, we win, you know? 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:08.870 Cause so much of it is, you 00:15:08.870 --> 00:15:11.240 know, conference going is like, 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.580 you know, here's my space and 00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:16.080 my play and my strategy and my, 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.080 You know what play is in Dutch? 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:20.080 Toilet. 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:21.080 Yeah. 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:22.330 So you say in the podcast, in 00:15:22.330 --> 00:15:24.080 the podcast play. 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.080 If what you leave behind, 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.080 before you play. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.080 Before we send our packets. 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:31.390 It's my little packet switch 00:15:31.390 --> 00:15:33.880 network down there, wherever 00:15:33.880 --> 00:15:35.080 that may be. 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:36.080 It's true though. 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:37.080 So, so yeah. 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.160 So I mean, I would think that, 00:15:39.160 --> 00:15:40.540 you know, where this is all 00:15:40.540 --> 00:15:42.880 sort of, this all leads to, you 00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:45.260 know, the extreme example of 00:15:45.260 --> 00:15:47.150 this is, I don't know how 00:15:47.150 --> 00:15:49.360 people are going to take this, 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:50.560 but 00:15:50.560 --> 00:15:53.080 it's like massage class. 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.850 You know, I used to go to these 00:15:55.850 --> 00:15:59.350 11 day massage class, you know, 00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:01.580 and like, I like to say, 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:02.620 like, doesn't matter what you 00:16:02.620 --> 00:16:03.940 talk about, basically, we all 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:05.080 talk about the same thing 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:07.080 always under all circumstances. 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:09.080 Whenever you have a discussion, 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:10.890 you're talking about this is 00:16:10.890 --> 00:16:12.080 basically saying, I exist, I 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:13.080 exist, I exist. 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.080 This is what I see. 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:15.080 Listen to me. 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:16.080 Listen to my opinion. 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:17.840 I want your approval and I'm 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.690 willing to give some approval, 00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:21.080 but mostly I want your approval 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:21.080 . 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:22.080 I'm here. 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.080 For what I'm saying. 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:24.080 Yeah. 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:25.080 That's human nature though. 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:26.080 It's what we do. 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:28.120 It's 99% of communication is 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:30.170 basically the, you know, and so 00:16:30.170 --> 00:16:31.230 the purest form of 00:16:31.230 --> 00:16:32.360 communication 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:33.840 is touch, you know. 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.120 I mean, if you want to 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:36.970 establish that you're here and 00:16:36.970 --> 00:16:38.650 that, or make contact with 00:16:38.650 --> 00:16:39.240 someone 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.590 else, the quickest way to do it 00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:42.720 is to touch. 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:44.380 And that reaches in a very, 00:16:44.380 --> 00:16:46.180 very deep level and it's scary 00:16:46.180 --> 00:16:48.080 and, you know, whatever. 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:49.500 But we can't do that in this 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:50.200 context. 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:51.630 This isn't what blogging is 00:16:51.630 --> 00:16:52.200 about. 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:53.880 It isn't what you know. 00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:55.380 So you have to sort of like 00:16:55.380 --> 00:16:56.810 choose how far down that 00:16:56.810 --> 00:16:58.480 spectrum you want to go. 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.430 The more real human emotion and 00:17:00.430 --> 00:17:02.370 trust, you see, that was, we 00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:04.560 talked about this at breakfast, 00:17:04.560 --> 00:17:05.560 right? 00:17:05.560 --> 00:17:06.560 Yeah. 00:17:06.560 --> 00:17:07.760 The more you get to the point 00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:09.180 where, you know, you meet a guy 00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:10.480 like Dave Slusher and you find 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.480 out, man, he's friendly. 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:13.880 Well, what does that mean? 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.140 Does that mean he's a good 00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:15.720 person? 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:16.720 You can't really tell. 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:17.720 You don't really know yet. 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:19.960 What I mean is that you're 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.220 experiencing some of his 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:25.420 humanity and you're building a 00:17:25.420 --> 00:17:25.680 little 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.870 bit of trust, you know, which 00:17:27.870 --> 00:17:29.600 is good and it's rare. 00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:31.590 Most conferences don't even 00:17:31.590 --> 00:17:33.650 have that much of that going on 00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:34.000 . 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.460 But yeah, so I mean, so how can 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:36.950 you get people to exchange more 00:17:36.950 --> 00:17:38.440 and, you know, build those 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:40.070 kind of relationships in a more 00:17:40.070 --> 00:17:41.640 direct way and at the same time 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.440 accommodate more people? 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:44.440 Yeah. 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:45.440 Yeah, that's a challenge. 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:46.780 More people who haven't been 00:17:46.780 --> 00:17:48.400 through one, two, and three. 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:49.400 And some newbies. 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:50.400 That's what I'm saying. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.400 Yeah, right. 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:52.250 The ones that sort of come in 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:53.410 with their, you know, a precon 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:54.560 ceived notion of how this is 00:17:54.560 --> 00:17:56.060 going to work, right? 00:17:56.060 --> 00:17:57.540 And we saw them try to impose 00:17:57.540 --> 00:17:59.160 those, you know, some of the 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.840 new people try to impose their 00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:03.020 expectations on the structure 00:18:03.020 --> 00:18:05.260 of the conference and, you know 00:18:05.260 --> 00:18:07.440 , maybe at some point we won't 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.160 be able to, maybe it won't work 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:09.880 anymore. 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.030 Maybe FlyerCon will just become 00:18:12.030 --> 00:18:14.120 like, you know, Mac World X or 00:18:14.120 --> 00:18:15.640 Comdex, but it will at 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:17.080 least be large at that point. 00:18:17.080 --> 00:18:18.080 Yeah. 00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:19.790 Isn't everything that grows big 00:18:19.790 --> 00:18:21.560 eventually destined to suck? 00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:22.560 Yeah. 00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:23.560 Well, I don't know. 00:18:23.560 --> 00:18:24.960 I mean, do you think maybe... 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.240 Well, what, name it something 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:27.430 that became big and that doesn 00:18:27.430 --> 00:18:28.640 't necessarily mean, well, 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:29.750 maybe it is only when there's a 00:18:29.750 --> 00:18:30.820 lot of people, maybe that's 00:18:30.820 --> 00:18:31.940 when it just becomes unmanage 00:18:31.940 --> 00:18:32.360 able. 00:18:32.360 --> 00:18:33.720 Well, I've never really been 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:35.130 all the way with something that 00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:35.680 got big. 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:37.030 No, but just like, yeah, well 00:18:37.030 --> 00:18:37.520 ... 00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:38.780 I tend to be there at the 00:18:38.780 --> 00:18:39.640 beginning. 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:41.180 And I'm lucky when I get there 00:18:41.180 --> 00:18:42.770 at the beginning and the thing 00:18:42.770 --> 00:18:44.280 has legs and all the people 00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:46.120 that are there are really good. 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:47.450 And, you know, like I've been 00:18:47.450 --> 00:18:48.590 there, that was personal 00:18:48.590 --> 00:18:50.120 software, that was wired, that 00:18:50.120 --> 00:18:51.120 was the web. 00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:52.000 These were, I mean, I was 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:52.600 really lucky. 00:18:52.600 --> 00:18:54.050 I think we're there again now, 00:18:54.050 --> 00:18:55.560 you know, it's like... 00:18:55.560 --> 00:18:56.560 I agree. 00:18:56.560 --> 00:18:57.830 We were there at the Blogmoral, 00:18:57.830 --> 00:18:58.630 we're there again at the 00:18:58.630 --> 00:18:59.960 podcasting thing, you know. 00:18:59.960 --> 00:19:00.940 Five years from now, we're 00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:01.970 going to look back and you're 00:19:01.970 --> 00:19:03.040 going to look at the people 00:19:03.040 --> 00:19:03.200 that 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.640 were at this conference and 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.000 each one of them is going to 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.430 have gone on to do something 00:19:07.430 --> 00:19:07.800 that 00:19:07.800 --> 00:19:08.950 you're going to say isn't it 00:19:08.950 --> 00:19:10.210 amazing that all those people 00:19:10.210 --> 00:19:11.480 were in the room at the same 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:12.480 time? 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.480 At the same time, yeah. 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:14.480 Right. 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:15.480 And it just has that feel. 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:17.070 I've seen enough now, you know, 00:19:17.070 --> 00:19:18.410 I don't tend to be around like 00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:19.760 when it becomes something 00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:20.760 big. 00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:21.680 I generally have moved on to 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:22.760 the next thing at that point. 00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:23.760 Right, right. 00:19:23.760 --> 00:19:24.880 But I saw it with Think New Ide 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:25.940 as and we started as on-ramp 00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:27.500 with, you know, like 12 guys 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:27.640 and 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.350 girls with pizza boxes on the 00:19:29.350 --> 00:19:31.070 servers, which of course is 00:19:31.070 --> 00:19:32.760 always the romance of it. 00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:34.440 And then we grew really quickly 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:36.310 and we wound up at like 400 or 00:19:36.310 --> 00:19:38.040 500 people across seven 00:19:38.040 --> 00:19:40.670 states and even though it was 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:41.720 ... 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:43.030 What saved us, of course, was 00:19:43.030 --> 00:19:44.340 we were divided, you know, in 00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:46.120 chunks of 80 to 100 people in 00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:48.000 offices. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.260 So it didn't suck tremendously. 00:19:50.260 --> 00:19:52.290 But as a whole, yeah, I think 00:19:52.290 --> 00:19:53.000 it did. 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:54.500 And MTV sucks and, you know, 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:56.040 all this stuff that... 00:19:56.040 --> 00:19:57.610 Anything that's cool and small 00:19:57.610 --> 00:19:59.050 once you get more and more and 00:19:59.050 --> 00:20:00.520 more people, you know what 00:20:00.520 --> 00:20:01.520 you forget? 00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:02.480 You forget a lot of the newbie 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.430 stuff along the way and then 00:20:03.430 --> 00:20:04.640 people who jump on, jump in 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.380 with, as you say, with their 00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:07.980 thoughts of what it is and what 00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:09.640 it ought to be and you change 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:11.640 and morph and... 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.140 Yeah, and I think that I agree 00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:16.550 totally and I think there's a 00:20:16.550 --> 00:20:18.280 way to put it is that it 00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:19.520 will get taken away from you. 00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:21.270 In other words, you create it 00:20:21.270 --> 00:20:23.230 and, you know, the first couple 00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:24.920 of times you do it, you sort 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:25.920 of think, well, what I want to 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:26.400 do... 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.470 Well, the first time I did it, 00:20:28.470 --> 00:20:30.600 I didn't want to hold on to it. 00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:32.240 That was living video text. 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:33.940 After a certain point in time, 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:35.440 it became really clear to me 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.170 that in order to get the reward 00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:37.200 , 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.380 I was going to have to give it 00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:38.680 up. 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.760 I was going to have to let it 00:20:40.760 --> 00:20:41.280 go. 00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:43.100 Second time, user land, I was 00:20:43.100 --> 00:20:44.910 insisting that I didn't want to 00:20:44.910 --> 00:20:46.280 give it up and it didn't 00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:47.280 ever... 00:20:47.280 --> 00:20:48.280 It never grew up. 00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:49.280 It sort of was... 00:20:49.280 --> 00:20:50.280 What does that tell you? 00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:51.480 Well, it tells you that 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.110 entrepreneurs' second efforts 00:20:53.110 --> 00:20:54.400 generally don't work. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.060 Okay, and there's a good reason 00:20:56.060 --> 00:20:57.400 for it because... 00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:58.400 Mine didn't. 00:20:58.400 --> 00:20:59.400 Right. 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:00.400 You know what? 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:01.400 Right, that's right. 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:02.180 That's when we started hanging 00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:02.400 out. 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.260 We were just talking about that 00:21:03.260 --> 00:21:03.400 . 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:05.400 And then my theory on that is 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:07.490 that it's at that moment that 00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:09.480 you try to negotiate with 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:10.850 the world what you want is you 00:21:10.850 --> 00:21:12.220 want to have your cake and eat 00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:12.800 it too. 00:21:12.800 --> 00:21:13.830 You want to have the success 00:21:13.830 --> 00:21:14.910 that you had in the first one, 00:21:14.910 --> 00:21:15.920 but you don't want to work 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:17.280 your ass off. 00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:18.830 You want to do it in a rational 00:21:18.830 --> 00:21:20.440 way that only, you know, you 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:22.040 can only do if you have money 00:21:22.040 --> 00:21:23.040 and you have experience. 00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:24.780 Well, here's the problem is you 00:21:24.780 --> 00:21:25.520 do... 00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:26.520 I disagree. 00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:27.850 You worked your ass off for 00:21:27.850 --> 00:21:29.490 user land, but there's a hunger 00:21:29.490 --> 00:21:30.950 factor that you can't determine 00:21:30.950 --> 00:21:31.040 . 00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:32.190 Yeah, I wrote about this today 00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:33.040 on Scripting News. 00:21:33.040 --> 00:21:34.520 In other words, when I... 00:21:34.520 --> 00:21:35.520 I've noticed this... 00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:36.520 Paul Fried helped me see this. 00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:38.220 John Paul Fried at Harvard, who 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:39.660 I worked for, helped me see 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:41.480 this, that basically he said, 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:43.240 "Well, Dave, isn't everything 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:44.400 you do a success?" 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.000 And I said, "No, it's not. 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:48.360 But when I want... 00:21:48.360 --> 00:21:50.560 When I will it to work, when I 00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:52.760 want it to work, it will. 00:21:52.760 --> 00:21:54.120 Because I'm that kind of person 00:21:54.120 --> 00:21:54.320 . 00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:55.320 I'm stubborn. 00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:56.320 I can't. 00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:57.320 You don't say. 00:21:57.320 --> 00:21:58.320 I am stubborn. 00:21:58.320 --> 00:21:59.320 And I can't. 00:21:59.320 --> 00:22:00.320 Yes, I am. 00:22:00.320 --> 00:22:01.320 It doesn't matter. 00:22:01.320 --> 00:22:03.620 And the key thing is that I can 00:22:03.620 --> 00:22:04.920 't conceive. 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.400 When I'm going to succeed, I 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.040 can't conceive of failure. 00:22:08.040 --> 00:22:09.400 On the other hand, with user 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:10.950 land, I could totally conceive 00:22:10.950 --> 00:22:12.200 of it and I was... 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:13.200 I accepted it. 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:14.200 Yeah. 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:15.200 I didn't... 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.030 Like you said, I didn't have 00:22:16.030 --> 00:22:16.480 the... 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.480 It was negotiable. 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:18.480 Yeah, right? 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.730 It wasn't work or death or star 00:22:20.730 --> 00:22:21.600 vation. 00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:22.600 And the first time it was 00:22:22.600 --> 00:22:23.640 totally non-negotiable. 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.250 I mean, basically I got to a 00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:27.170 place where if I didn't, it was 00:22:27.170 --> 00:22:27.760 ... 00:22:27.760 --> 00:22:30.320 It came really close to tubing 00:22:30.320 --> 00:22:31.760 several times. 00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:33.760 So on this one... 00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:34.760 And I think... 00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:36.690 Okay, so the lesson is, let it 00:22:36.690 --> 00:22:38.200 be taken away from you. 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:39.490 Know that it's going to be 00:22:39.490 --> 00:22:41.000 taken away from you one way or 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.640 another and find a way to enjoy 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:44.360 the success even if it does. 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:45.760 Yeah, well, of course, yeah. 00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:47.640 So like, for example, in the 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:49.560 case of user land, it would be 00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:50.960 unfair to say that it got 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.640 taken away from me, but it's 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:54.460 also true that I'm not involved 00:22:54.460 --> 00:22:55.600 with it anymore. 00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:57.220 But the satisfaction is that 00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:59.030 there's blogger and there's mov 00:22:59.030 --> 00:23:01.160 able type and there's WordPress. 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:03.890 And there's a fucking newsgator 00:23:03.890 --> 00:23:06.330 and blog lines and feed demon 00:23:06.330 --> 00:23:08.040 and feed server. 00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:09.040 Net news wire. 00:23:09.040 --> 00:23:10.040 Net news wire, right. 00:23:10.040 --> 00:23:11.570 All these things came along to 00:23:11.570 --> 00:23:12.950 sort of fill the gap that was 00:23:12.950 --> 00:23:14.400 created by these products. 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:15.850 And so, you know, that says 00:23:15.850 --> 00:23:17.720 basically you can go ahead... 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:19.000 We could have even sold out 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.360 user land if I wanted to. 00:23:20.360 --> 00:23:21.990 If the opportunity presented 00:23:21.990 --> 00:23:23.560 itself to make millions of 00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:24.920 dollars selling it out. 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:26.580 Once there was a standard 00:23:26.580 --> 00:23:28.320 format and protocol and it 00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:30.360 could be replaced, then there 00:23:30.360 --> 00:23:31.080 was absolutely 00:23:31.080 --> 00:23:33.180 nothing ethically wrong with, 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:34.960 you know, with... 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.580 You know, the whole thing would 00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:38.360 have an independent existence. 00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:39.830 The problem with more and 00:23:39.830 --> 00:23:41.650 living video text was that wasn 00:23:41.650 --> 00:23:42.360 't true. 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:44.370 And the category dried up and 00:23:44.370 --> 00:23:46.560 died after we sold that out. 00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:47.880 So that's kind of... 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:49.240 That was my negotiation on user 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:49.640 land. 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:51.600 I didn't want that to happen. 00:23:51.600 --> 00:23:53.180 I didn't want to get to a place 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:54.900 where the things succeeded to a 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:56.280 certain point and then 00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:57.770 it came time to sell it out and 00:23:57.770 --> 00:23:59.340 then as a result there would be 00:23:59.340 --> 00:24:00.480 nothing left in the 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.480 scripting industry. 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:02.810 I'd be curious to see if based 00:24:02.810 --> 00:24:03.600 upon... 00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:05.670 I showed the outliner at the 00:24:05.670 --> 00:24:07.400 podcast recession. 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:09.920 If people downloaded radio user 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:10.600 land. 00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:11.600 I don't think so. 00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:12.600 No? 00:24:12.600 --> 00:24:13.600 No. 00:24:13.600 --> 00:24:14.600 We're going to... 00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:17.560 We're going to need to do... 00:24:17.560 --> 00:24:19.050 I don't know what it's going to 00:24:19.050 --> 00:24:20.440 take but first of all I don't 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:21.560 think it's radio user 00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:22.560 land. 00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:25.080 I think that we need to do a 00:24:25.080 --> 00:24:27.610 package based on the open 00:24:27.610 --> 00:24:29.920 source base... 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.920 A frontier. 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:31.920 Right. 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:32.920 And it needs... 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:33.920 Well to me that's the same... 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:34.920 Right. 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.390 Well but it needs to boot up in 00:24:36.390 --> 00:24:38.320 exactly the mode you want... 00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:39.320 Right. 00:24:39.320 --> 00:24:40.340 Not in the weblog creation mode 00:24:40.340 --> 00:24:40.920 but in... 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:41.920 More even more directed. 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:44.130 On a window opening up with an 00:24:44.130 --> 00:24:45.120 outline. 00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:46.500 And then an instruction window 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:47.880 somewhere immediately next to 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:48.200 it. 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:49.530 And then when you save it goes 00:24:49.530 --> 00:24:50.770 right up to the server you want 00:24:50.770 --> 00:24:51.640 it to be on and it's 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.560 linked in and content managed. 00:24:55.560 --> 00:24:57.290 They get that sort of instant 00:24:57.290 --> 00:24:59.230 result and they can immediately 00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:01.800 see what's going on there. 00:25:01.800 --> 00:25:02.640 That's when you're going to 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:03.360 start getting... 00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:05.280 Now I think kind of an outliner 00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:06.800 or a wave of it but you'll 00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:08.640 start getting a trickle of 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.040 adoption when you do that 00:25:10.040 --> 00:25:11.570 because the people that get 00:25:11.570 --> 00:25:13.180 interested in it will have an 00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:13.840 immediate 00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:16.000 good sort of experience. 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.120 And yeah exactly. 00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:19.560 And I think it's a great use. 00:25:19.560 --> 00:25:21.200 Yeah we'll get there. 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.200 I mean... 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:23.460 I still have to comment on this 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:24.680 microphone for a second. 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:25.680 Oh okay. 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.000 So it's a USB microphone. 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.240 Yeah it's kind of cool looking. 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:30.530 Well yeah but hold on there's a 00:25:30.530 --> 00:25:31.080 problem. 00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:34.280 It's made by MacMice. 00:25:34.280 --> 00:25:36.560 It was given to me for free. 00:25:36.560 --> 00:25:39.370 But USB audio interface has a 00:25:39.370 --> 00:25:40.320 delay. 00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:42.860 So you're direct on the line in 00:25:42.860 --> 00:25:44.560 with the lav mic. 00:25:44.560 --> 00:25:45.560 So I'm hearing you... 00:25:45.560 --> 00:25:47.560 This is like the GSM delay. 00:25:47.560 --> 00:25:49.700 So when I'm talking there's a 00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:51.950 half second delay because the 00:25:51.950 --> 00:25:53.880 USB can't process the signal 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:54.880 fast enough. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:55.980 So that's why you can see me 00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:57.130 sticking the thing in my ear 00:25:57.130 --> 00:25:58.360 every other five minutes. 00:25:58.360 --> 00:26:00.360 Why are you sticking your ear? 00:26:00.360 --> 00:26:02.020 So that I can monitor and make 00:26:02.020 --> 00:26:03.440 sure that it's working. 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.160 It'll be sad if like it won't. 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.100 Just flip the transmitter 00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:11.560 around so I can see the lights. 00:26:11.560 --> 00:26:12.560 Thank you. 00:26:12.560 --> 00:26:13.560 Do you have any lights? 00:26:13.560 --> 00:26:15.400 I have a red light and a green 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:16.080 light. 00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:17.080 The green light's flashing. 00:26:17.080 --> 00:26:18.080 Okay yeah that's good. 00:26:18.080 --> 00:26:19.320 Once the red light starts to 00:26:19.320 --> 00:26:20.410 flash then you're low on 00:26:20.410 --> 00:26:21.000 battery. 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:22.000 Oh it's not flashing. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.000 Okay then you're good. 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.000 Solid. 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:25.000 Oh okay. 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.000 You understand what I'm saying? 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:26.790 I mean that would really suck 00:26:26.790 --> 00:26:27.000 it. 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:28.740 Yeah you're talking and I'm not 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:29.000 . 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.220 Because I'm talking a lot right 00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:31.520 . 00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:32.570 As long as I don't have to 00:26:32.570 --> 00:26:33.810 listen to you though it's great 00:26:33.810 --> 00:26:34.000 . 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:35.670 Just the light and make sure 00:26:35.670 --> 00:26:37.080 that when the red light, if it 00:26:37.080 --> 00:26:37.080 's flashing. 00:26:37.080 --> 00:26:38.020 If the red light starts to 00:26:38.020 --> 00:26:39.130 flash then we have an hour left 00:26:39.130 --> 00:26:39.800 so we're good. 00:26:39.800 --> 00:26:40.570 You don't even have to look at 00:26:40.570 --> 00:26:40.800 it. 00:26:40.800 --> 00:26:41.890 Oh well then we don't have a 00:26:41.890 --> 00:26:43.400 problem because we don't have 00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:44.400 an hour in us. 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:45.400 Well another hour. 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:46.720 How big is your dick I don't 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:47.200 know. 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:48.650 Well Steve Gilmore's dropping 00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:49.200 by here. 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.790 Hey he had the length of our, 00:26:50.790 --> 00:26:52.450 it's additive right so like it 00:26:52.450 --> 00:26:53.960 's the length of your dick 00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:56.080 and the length of my life. 00:26:56.080 --> 00:26:57.600 John Holmes step back. 00:26:57.600 --> 00:26:58.970 Yeah he said old Steve is an 00:26:58.970 --> 00:27:00.240 hour and a half late. 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:01.240 He called me. 00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:01.940 You were out getting him a 00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:02.240 drink. 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:03.240 Yeah he said hey. 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:04.240 I said hey. 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.580 I'm waiting for the apology you 00:27:06.580 --> 00:27:07.240 know. 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:08.240 It ain't coming. 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:09.240 It did. 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:10.240 It came. 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:11.240 I was in a coma. 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.400 And I said you know what I said 00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:15.560 I was waiting for the apology 00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:17.200 and I'll accept it. 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:18.200 It's accepted you know. 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.000 So he was going to, he's 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:19.970 probably going to be here any 00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:20.400 minute. 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:21.720 Hey so I got a new cell phone 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:22.240 today. 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:23.240 Yeah. 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:24.240 I did. 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:25.090 And the old one it was really 00:27:25.090 --> 00:27:25.990 funny I was talking with my mom 00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:26.240 . 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:27.390 Of course I called her first 00:27:27.390 --> 00:27:28.690 because I knew she was worrying 00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:29.240 you know. 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:30.240 She sent me an email. 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:31.240 She wanted to know how it went. 00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:33.240 Well no not just that. 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.680 It's like my old cell phone 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:36.240 died like three days ago. 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.300 She couldn't get a hold of you 00:27:37.300 --> 00:27:38.240 for a couple of days. 00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:38.970 I was totally in a kind of need 00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:39.240 of it. 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.240 I wasn't updating my blog. 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:42.740 My server had gone down as you 00:27:42.740 --> 00:27:43.240 know. 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:44.330 Dude I was even worried 00:27:44.330 --> 00:27:45.240 motherfucker. 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:46.240 Right exactly. 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.240 You know I was worried. 00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:48.610 So it turns out that she, this 00:27:48.610 --> 00:27:49.240 is so cute. 00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:51.130 She left voicemail which I will 00:27:51.130 --> 00:27:53.070 never hear because the phone is 00:27:53.070 --> 00:27:55.240 completely kaput. 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.040 Saying basically she thought I 00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:58.600 had either like died or was in 00:27:58.600 --> 00:28:00.240 a hospital or something. 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.240 She just wanted the server up. 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.240 I give a shit about all that. 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.240 She left a message. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:05.870 She says if you're hearing this 00:28:05.870 --> 00:28:07.240 I'm his mother call me. 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:08.240 Oh really? 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:09.240 Oh that's so sweet. 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:10.750 Well you know at this late 00:28:10.750 --> 00:28:12.590 stage in life basically it's 00:28:12.590 --> 00:28:14.240 you know that used to really 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:15.240 bother me. 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:16.630 Being mothered that way when I 00:28:16.630 --> 00:28:17.240 was a kid. 00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:18.240 No but that's important stuff. 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:19.240 Yeah it's cool. 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:20.240 It's cool that she worries. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.240 It's like and it's. 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:23.240 And we still have moms dude. 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:24.240 Yeah that's like really cool. 00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.240 Well I have both. 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:26.240 I have both of them. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.240 Me too. 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:28.240 Me too. 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:29.240 That's gonna be cool. 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:30.240 Hello. 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:31.240 Where is here? 00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:32.240 Yep that's Steve. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.240 We're doing trade secrets. 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:34.240 Yeah. 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:34.810 Yeah Steve doesn't want to be a 00:28:34.810 --> 00:28:35.240 podcaster does he? 00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:36.240 So it's facing straight back. 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:37.240 And it says 2351. 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:38.240 Right on the back. 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:45.170 So this is like in New York on 00:28:45.170 --> 00:28:51.790 WORAM when I was growing up 00:28:51.790 --> 00:28:58.240 they had a radio show that 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.640 basically it was live and it 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:03.050 was in this couple's living 00:29:03.050 --> 00:29:05.360 room in Manhattan on Park 00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:06.240 Avenue. 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:08.240 They were like a rich couple. 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:09.240 Right. 00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:10.700 And all these people would just 00:29:10.700 --> 00:29:11.980 drop by their house and they 00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:13.240 would sit around and talk 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:14.240 around 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:15.240 talking with their. 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:16.320 We need to find a rich friend 00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:17.240 and we can dish out. 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:18.240 In New York and Park Avenue. 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.240 Well we're doing today. 00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:20.830 We've got the chair for Steve 00:29:20.830 --> 00:29:22.370 and of course you know he's 00:29:22.370 --> 00:29:23.240 like a guest. 00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.520 He's like you know it's like 00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:30.100 the Beverly Hillbillies and P 00:29:30.100 --> 00:29:33.740 etticoat Junction and oh gosh 00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:34.740 Green Acres 00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:37.740 and the Andy Griffiths. 00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:40.160 What was the pink submarine? 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.240 Pink submarine. 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:43.240 Well these were all two shows. 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:44.240 All the shows. 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:45.240 Right. 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:46.330 Only pink submarine but they 00:29:46.330 --> 00:29:47.210 were all they all knew each 00:29:47.210 --> 00:29:48.430 other and occasionally Gomer P 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:48.700 yle 00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:50.620 would show up on Petticoat Jun 00:29:50.620 --> 00:29:51.240 ction. 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:52.240 That's just like podcasting. 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:53.240 Yeah. 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:54.240 I'm with Don and Drew. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.240 Yeah. 00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:56.720 When is Don and Drew coming 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:57.240 over? 00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.950 You still haven't told us about 00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:00.240 the movie by the way. 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.240 Okay. 00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:02.240 Yeah. 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:03.240 Right. 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:04.240 So last night after Jing Jing. 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:05.240 How was Jing Jing by the way? 00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:06.240 Did you like it? 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:07.450 It was great and actually 00:30:07.450 --> 00:30:08.820 because when I came I was late 00:30:08.820 --> 00:30:10.360 and because partly because I 00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:10.740 was 00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:12.010 stuck in this elevator and 00:30:12.010 --> 00:30:13.440 partly because I didn't have a 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.800 ride but I knew it wouldn't 00:30:14.800 --> 00:30:15.800 be a problem. 00:30:15.800 --> 00:30:16.820 I knew I just went to the front 00:30:16.820 --> 00:30:17.440 of the hotel. 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:18.590 There would be someone from 00:30:18.590 --> 00:30:19.740 BloggerCon going my way and 00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:20.960 there were five people so it 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.200 worked 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:22.200 out. 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.200 Yeah. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:24.200 That's BloggerCon to the max. 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:25.200 Totally. 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.200 You know that's going to work. 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.200 You get a ride. 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:28.200 That's the easiest. 00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.200 Maybe you get more but. 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:30.260 So I was hoping you would get 00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:31.200 laid and instead of. 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:32.200 You didn't get laid. 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:33.200 You could have gotten laid. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:34.200 Yeah. 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:35.200 I guess. 00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:35.680 I don't think there's any 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:36.200 question about that. 00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:37.710 Well you got to let people like 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:39.030 hold a sign up so I know that 00:30:39.030 --> 00:30:40.200 there's a signal. 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.600 Well we should have had this 00:30:41.600 --> 00:30:43.030 session and said who wants to 00:30:43.030 --> 00:30:44.200 have sex with Adam. 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:45.200 Right. 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:46.200 It's sex for fun. 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.770 Nobody would have been at any 00:30:47.770 --> 00:30:49.200 of the other sessions. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.200 Nobody would. 00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:51.200 No. 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.200 I don't think so. 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.200 All right. 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:54.200 Hi. 00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:56.350 Nice to have you guys here 00:30:56.350 --> 00:30:57.200 today. 00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.200 Yeah. 00:30:58.200 --> 00:30:59.200 It's interesting. 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.050 So when I came in it was like 00:31:02.050 --> 00:31:05.110 there was really one table was 00:31:05.110 --> 00:31:07.440 all filled up and it was like 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.440 the cool table. 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:09.440 Yeah. 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:11.200 You mean like the one I was at. 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:12.200 Yeah. 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:13.200 Totally. 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.390 And you know it was Don and 00:31:14.390 --> 00:31:15.590 Drew and you and the other 00:31:15.590 --> 00:31:17.200 table was behind that and there 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.850 were all the rest of the people 00:31:19.850 --> 00:31:20.200 . 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:21.200 That was my initial feeling. 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:22.200 I'll be honest. 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:23.200 I was like oh okay. 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:24.200 All the rest of the people. 00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:25.200 But it was great. 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.200 Yeah. 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.300 And it filled up pretty quickly 00:31:28.300 --> 00:31:30.120 and we did an introduction 00:31:30.120 --> 00:31:32.200 round and talked and actually 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.590 there were incredibly amazing 00:31:34.590 --> 00:31:36.200 people at my table. 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.390 Including well I've got, I'm 00:31:38.390 --> 00:31:40.320 spacing out, a girl from A 00:31:40.320 --> 00:31:41.200 udible. 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:42.200 Oh right. 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:43.200 Yeah. 00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.200 And some Apple engineers. 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:46.480 You know it was funny because I 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:47.200 'm like you know. 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:48.200 Apple engineers? 00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:49.200 System engineers. 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.200 People like work at Apple. 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:51.200 Yeah. 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:52.200 Yeah. 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:53.200 I'm a system engineer. 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.200 I'm a system engineer. 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:55.200 By any chance work on iPods? 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:56.200 No. 00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:57.200 No. 00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.200 And you know hi I'm Adam Curry. 00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.180 I've spent tens and thousands 00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:00.200 of dollars on your product. 00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:01.490 Do they bring you any free 00:32:01.490 --> 00:32:02.200 products? 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:03.200 No. 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:04.200 Well how tacky is that? 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:05.570 Well I don't think these guys 00:32:05.570 --> 00:32:07.200 in the free product division. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:08.200 You know. 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:09.200 That's our friend Sam Levin. 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:10.190 There used to be a time when 00:32:10.190 --> 00:32:11.200 Apple like they would. 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:12.200 They would give stuff away. 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.200 They gave me and Mac too. 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:15.510 Yeah they would just show up 00:32:15.510 --> 00:32:16.770 and they would loan you the 00:32:16.770 --> 00:32:17.200 smaller. 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:18.200 Daniel Paul. 00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:19.200 Daniel Paul. 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.200 No. 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:21.200 Mike Boych was my guy. 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:22.200 Okay my name is Daniel. 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:23.200 And Guy Cowstock. 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:24.200 My bitch was the guy. 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:25.200 Guy Cowstock. 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.200 Yeah. 00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:27.200 I never even met him. 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.660 Basically they would just show 00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:28.020 up your place with loan or 00:32:28.020 --> 00:32:28.200 hardware and you'd sign a 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:28.200 little 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:29.250 piece of paper saying that 00:32:29.250 --> 00:32:30.440 someday you might think about 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:31.200 giving it back. 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:32.200 I did have to do that actually. 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:33.850 And they never, they never come 00:32:33.850 --> 00:32:34.200 back. 00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.200 Eventually the program ended. 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:37.200 Yeah. 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:38.200 Eventually. 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:39.320 And they asked for it back and 00:32:39.320 --> 00:32:40.200 you gave it to them? 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.200 Yeah. 00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:42.200 No. 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:43.200 Adam, Adam, time out. 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.200 You did that. 00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:44.780 Well you're fucking it up for 00:32:44.780 --> 00:32:45.200 everybody else. 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.200 I mean I said fuck you Apple. 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:48.200 Jesus. 00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:49.450 So anyway let me get back to 00:32:49.450 --> 00:32:50.200 Don Andrew. 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:51.200 You gotta be kidding. 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.200 You gave it back. 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:53.200 I'm an honest guy. 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:54.200 I signed a piece of paper. 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:55.200 God. 00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.200 Alright. 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:57.200 So hold on. 00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:58.980 Let me just make sure I'm not 00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:00.200 exploding here. 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:01.200 Yeah good. 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.230 Any minute Steve Gilmore is 00:33:02.230 --> 00:33:03.200 walking in that door. 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:04.480 So I hope I get to the Don 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:06.200 Andrew story before that. 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:07.200 Okay. 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:08.710 And so what are we going to do 00:33:08.710 --> 00:33:10.420 after dinner and you were going 00:33:10.420 --> 00:33:11.200 to go home. 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.970 I guess they'd already asked 00:33:11.970 --> 00:33:12.200 you. 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:13.200 I did. 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.200 Oh they asked me. 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:15.200 Obviously they asked. 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:17.910 And right across the street was 00:33:17.910 --> 00:33:20.720 a midnight showing of lollipop 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:22.200 girls in 3D. 00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:23.200 Cool. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:25.200 And it's a porn movie. 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.020 And I'm like you know the 00:33:27.020 --> 00:33:28.940 opportunity to, that's kind of 00:33:28.940 --> 00:33:30.200 like when Patricia said you 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:31.570 know if I didn't have sex with 00:33:31.570 --> 00:33:32.890 David Bowie my sister would 00:33:32.890 --> 00:33:34.200 never let me live it down. 00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:35.740 I figured the podcast community 00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:37.150 would never let me live it down 00:33:37.150 --> 00:33:38.200 if I didn't go to this 00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:39.200 movie with Don Andrew. 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.200 That's why you went? 00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:41.200 Well I wanted to go too. 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.260 You were being put down by the 00:33:42.260 --> 00:33:43.200 podcast community? 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.200 No I love porn. 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:45.200 Oh there you go. 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.110 So you had to twist your arm 00:33:47.110 --> 00:33:48.200 basically. 00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:49.200 Yeah really. 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.860 So they're two friends who are 00:33:50.860 --> 00:33:52.200 really fun people. 00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:53.810 Yeah they're all pierced in 00:33:53.810 --> 00:33:55.200 sort of the same way. 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.200 Yeah they made it my daughter. 00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:57.810 She's so proud of my new 00:33:57.810 --> 00:33:58.200 friends. 00:33:58.200 --> 00:33:59.200 Really? 00:33:59.200 --> 00:33:59.810 Yeah she's totally into 00:33:59.810 --> 00:34:00.200 piercing. 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:01.810 How does she know about them 00:34:01.810 --> 00:34:02.900 being pierced? 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:04.200 She saw the Don Andrew website. 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.700 Oh and their pictures are up 00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:06.200 there. 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:07.200 Yeah. 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:08.580 You know when I talk, because 00:34:08.580 --> 00:34:09.930 their friend had like the big 00:34:09.930 --> 00:34:11.200 African earlobe pierced with 00:34:11.200 --> 00:34:12.340 a huge bullet hole like a 00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:13.200 shotgun hole. 00:34:13.200 --> 00:34:14.200 Wow. 00:34:14.200 --> 00:34:15.200 Yeah that's trippy. 00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:16.230 You just want to like stick 00:34:16.230 --> 00:34:17.200 your finger in there. 00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:18.200 That was the woman or the man? 00:34:18.200 --> 00:34:19.200 The guy. 00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:20.200 The guy. 00:34:20.200 --> 00:34:21.870 And he's like a super, he's a, 00:34:21.870 --> 00:34:23.480 he was part of the human genome 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:24.200 project. 00:34:24.200 --> 00:34:25.200 Wow. 00:34:25.200 --> 00:34:26.200 The sequencing of the genome. 00:34:26.200 --> 00:34:27.200 So you must be smart. 00:34:27.200 --> 00:34:28.200 I asked him that. 00:34:28.200 --> 00:34:29.200 He said yeah. 00:34:29.200 --> 00:34:30.200 There you go. 00:34:30.200 --> 00:34:31.200 He's like a smart. 00:34:31.200 --> 00:34:32.430 Definitely like a straight 00:34:32.430 --> 00:34:33.200 answer right? 00:34:33.200 --> 00:34:35.310 We came back to the riot hide 00:34:35.310 --> 00:34:37.490 first to get prepared for the 00:34:37.490 --> 00:34:38.200 show. 00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:39.200 What? 00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:40.700 The riot hide here, Ricky's 00:34:40.700 --> 00:34:41.200 hide. 00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:42.520 You know to get prepared and 00:34:42.520 --> 00:34:44.010 Dave Slusser showed up because 00:34:44.010 --> 00:34:45.200 he was in the hotel. 00:34:45.200 --> 00:34:47.010 I see on iTunes they use rendez 00:34:47.010 --> 00:34:48.560 vous and I was looking at his 00:34:48.560 --> 00:34:50.200 playlist on iTunes and playing 00:34:50.200 --> 00:34:51.950 his music for the past two days 00:34:51.950 --> 00:34:52.200 . 00:34:52.200 --> 00:34:54.200 You know a couple of years ago. 00:34:54.200 --> 00:34:55.200 Oh he's here at the show today. 00:34:55.200 --> 00:34:56.200 Yeah he's gone. 00:34:56.200 --> 00:34:57.200 I had to leave early this 00:34:57.200 --> 00:34:58.460 morning so he didn't go with us 00:34:58.460 --> 00:34:59.200 to the movie. 00:34:59.200 --> 00:35:01.580 So we go to the movies, we go 00:35:01.580 --> 00:35:04.090 back and you get, you know you 00:35:04.090 --> 00:35:06.200 're in the, it's like an 00:35:06.200 --> 00:35:07.200 old movie house. 00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:09.140 My screen at home, you know the 00:35:09.140 --> 00:35:10.710 flat screens that have an 00:35:10.710 --> 00:35:12.700 investment in the company that 00:35:12.700 --> 00:35:13.700 makes these flat screens. 00:35:13.700 --> 00:35:14.810 It was, my screen at home is 00:35:14.810 --> 00:35:16.200 almost the size of the screen. 00:35:16.200 --> 00:35:17.200 I mean so it was not big. 00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:18.640 I know the Z-Querys theater 00:35:18.640 --> 00:35:19.200 right? 00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:20.200 Yeah. 00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:21.200 Yeah. 00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:22.320 It's on Emerson street in case 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:23.200 you want to go there. 00:35:23.200 --> 00:35:24.200 Right. 00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:25.200 Across from Jing Jing. 00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:26.200 Correct. 00:35:26.200 --> 00:35:27.200 And hey man. 00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:28.200 Steve Gilmore. 00:35:28.200 --> 00:35:29.310 He's on his iPod and he's 00:35:29.310 --> 00:35:30.720 listening to the daily source 00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:31.200 code. 00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:35.200 Just to bring a, bring a child. 00:35:35.200 --> 00:35:36.300 How are we going to get a 00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:37.200 microphone on? 00:35:37.200 --> 00:35:38.020 Well I'm going to, what I'm 00:35:38.020 --> 00:35:38.870 going to do is I'm going to put 00:35:38.870 --> 00:35:40.200 this, I'm going to do like 00:35:40.200 --> 00:35:41.200 a monitor thing. 00:35:41.200 --> 00:35:43.200 Hey Steve, how are you doing? 00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:44.200 Great. 00:35:44.200 --> 00:35:45.200 Hey I see you have a map. 00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:46.200 Did you enjoy it? 00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:47.640 Oh you'll get a chance to like 00:35:47.640 --> 00:35:49.780 stroke me about 18,000 times 00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:50.200 now. 00:35:50.200 --> 00:35:51.200 Boy. 00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:55.200 That was the real one. 00:35:55.200 --> 00:35:57.840 The rest of it is the fake ones 00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.200 . 00:35:58.200 --> 00:36:00.200 Come on over Steve. 00:36:00.200 --> 00:36:03.200 I'm on a wireless mic. 00:36:03.200 --> 00:36:04.200 How's that? 00:36:04.200 --> 00:36:05.740 You don't even have to close 00:36:05.740 --> 00:36:06.200 mic. 00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:07.200 Okay. 00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:08.200 Yeah. 00:36:08.200 --> 00:36:09.930 So yeah I just caught up to you 00:36:09.930 --> 00:36:10.200 . 00:36:10.200 --> 00:36:11.770 I'm listening to you and Doug 00:36:11.770 --> 00:36:12.200 Kay. 00:36:12.200 --> 00:36:13.200 Oh the, yeah. 00:36:13.200 --> 00:36:15.200 They've hated that. 00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:16.200 I hated it? 00:36:16.200 --> 00:36:17.200 What? 00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:18.200 What? 00:36:18.200 --> 00:36:19.200 They hated you and Doug Kay. 00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:20.200 They didn't hate it? 00:36:20.200 --> 00:36:21.380 You said you said you hated the 00:36:21.380 --> 00:36:22.200 way I sounded it. 00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:23.440 Oh I didn't hate the way you 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:24.200 sounded it. 00:36:24.200 --> 00:36:26.200 I didn't say I hated it. 00:36:26.200 --> 00:36:27.200 I did. 00:36:27.200 --> 00:36:28.200 I wouldn't regret it. 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:29.200 I don't have any deal. 00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:30.200 You said you hated it. 00:36:30.200 --> 00:36:32.200 Well guys I'll see you later. 00:36:32.200 --> 00:36:33.200 Yeah. 00:36:33.200 --> 00:36:34.540 You said you hated the way I 00:36:34.540 --> 00:36:35.200 sounded. 00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:36.200 Not what I said you sounded. 00:36:36.200 --> 00:36:37.790 You said you didn't like to 00:36:37.790 --> 00:36:39.200 sound like you had the same 00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:40.200 energy as the traits. 00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:42.200 They did source code. 00:36:42.200 --> 00:36:43.200 Well that's true. 00:36:43.200 --> 00:36:44.760 I didn't think, I mean, I 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:45.200 hardly. 00:36:45.200 --> 00:36:47.040 You told me a story a number of 00:36:47.040 --> 00:36:48.200 times I think. 00:36:48.200 --> 00:36:49.600 It sounded like you were, well 00:36:49.600 --> 00:36:51.080 look, I don't want to, you know 00:36:51.080 --> 00:36:52.200 , I mean, the first it was 00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:53.200 I don't get it. 00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:54.200 It's hard. 00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:55.200 Do you see what you did? 00:36:55.200 --> 00:36:56.200 No the problem. 00:36:56.200 --> 00:36:57.200 All right. 00:36:57.200 --> 00:36:58.200 Let me just try to do this. 00:36:58.200 --> 00:37:00.860 I mean the first one was a long 00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:03.530 time ago and so the feeling is 00:37:03.530 --> 00:37:05.200 gone, right? 00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:06.200 Okay. 00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:08.510 And basically I wanted to, I 00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:10.940 didn't hate it because it made 00:37:10.940 --> 00:37:13.200 me want to do the interview 00:37:13.200 --> 00:37:14.740 with Doug so I can give him the 00:37:14.740 --> 00:37:16.340 other side of the story and why 00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:18.200 what you're doing is so 00:37:18.200 --> 00:37:19.200 important, okay? 00:37:19.200 --> 00:37:20.200 Right. 00:37:20.200 --> 00:37:21.200 And from without. 00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:22.580 This is all the stuff I haven't 00:37:22.580 --> 00:37:23.200 heard yet so. 00:37:23.200 --> 00:37:24.200 You haven't heard yet. 00:37:24.200 --> 00:37:25.830 I just heard the first half 00:37:25.830 --> 00:37:27.690 where, you know, it's MTV to 00:37:27.690 --> 00:37:28.200 MTV. 00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:29.200 Right. 00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:30.200 Right. 00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:31.200 All of that. 00:37:31.200 --> 00:37:32.300 I tried to get him to tell me 00:37:32.300 --> 00:37:33.550 this last night and he was like 00:37:33.550 --> 00:37:35.200 , you know, belligerent about 00:37:35.200 --> 00:37:36.980 this, you know, that I had to 00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:38.690 go listen to the tape so I just 00:37:38.690 --> 00:37:39.200 did. 00:37:39.200 --> 00:37:40.200 Right. 00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:41.130 You wanted to know the MTV 00:37:41.130 --> 00:37:42.200 story or something else? 00:37:42.200 --> 00:37:43.680 I was right at the point where, 00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:45.160 you know, okay so then you went 00:37:45.160 --> 00:37:46.200 into it and you said, 00:37:46.200 --> 00:37:47.200 you know. 00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:48.430 Yeah, at a certain point Donna 00:37:48.430 --> 00:37:49.640 Drew invited me to go to the 3D 00:37:49.640 --> 00:37:50.200 portal. 00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:51.200 Yeah, how was that? 00:37:51.200 --> 00:37:52.200 He's told the story of it. 00:37:52.200 --> 00:37:53.510 Why don't you let him finish 00:37:53.510 --> 00:37:54.200 the story. 00:37:54.200 --> 00:37:55.200 So how was it? 00:37:55.200 --> 00:37:56.200 What's the name of the theater? 00:37:56.200 --> 00:37:57.200 The Aquarius Theater. 00:37:57.200 --> 00:37:58.200 The Aquarius. 00:37:58.200 --> 00:37:58.940 It's on Emerson Street in Palo 00:37:58.940 --> 00:37:59.200 Alto. 00:37:59.200 --> 00:38:01.020 So we're seeing the lights are 00:38:01.020 --> 00:38:02.890 kind of happening and it's full 00:38:02.890 --> 00:38:03.200 . 00:38:03.200 --> 00:38:04.580 I mean, it's all kinds of 00:38:04.580 --> 00:38:06.170 couples and people and it's a 00:38:06.170 --> 00:38:07.840 total rocking or picture show 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:08.200 vibe. 00:38:08.200 --> 00:38:10.200 Like, what's it be interesting? 00:38:10.200 --> 00:38:12.330 As Guy gets up, he looks like a 00:38:12.330 --> 00:38:14.200 UNIX system engineer. 00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:16.480 He said that, you know what I 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:17.200 mean? 00:38:17.200 --> 00:38:20.490 He compiles a red hat colonel 00:38:20.490 --> 00:38:22.200 breakfast. 00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:23.200 Cool. 00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:24.200 Yeah. 00:38:24.200 --> 00:38:24.960 And then he stands up and he's 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.360 like, hi everybody, you know, I 00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:27.200 'm sorry that we're a little 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:27.200 late, 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:28.960 but I had a scheduling conflict 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:29.200 . 00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:30.200 Okay. 00:38:30.200 --> 00:38:33.070 And then he goes to this porn 00:38:33.070 --> 00:38:34.200 trivia. 00:38:34.200 --> 00:38:35.750 How long was John Holmes the 00:38:35.750 --> 00:38:36.200 big? 00:38:36.200 --> 00:38:38.200 I don't know how long. 00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:39.760 Whoa, these people know they're 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:40.200 porn. 00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:41.200 How long was it? 00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:42.200 Eleven? 00:38:42.200 --> 00:38:43.200 At twelve and a half. 00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:44.200 Yeah. 00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:46.190 And then we have some other 00:38:46.190 --> 00:38:48.460 questions like who portrayed 00:38:48.460 --> 00:38:50.840 John Holmes in the movie nights 00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:51.200 ? 00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:53.200 Mark to Mark. 00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:54.200 Oh, okay. 00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:55.200 Mark Warburg. 00:38:55.200 --> 00:38:56.200 Okay. 00:38:56.200 --> 00:38:57.200 Stuff like that. 00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:58.740 And then you see the pass out 00:38:58.740 --> 00:39:00.200 these mints for free. 00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:01.200 A little tins of mints. 00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:02.200 I left it in the theater. 00:39:02.200 --> 00:39:03.720 I said, we're giving these away 00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:05.200 for free because they suck. 00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:06.200 You can't get them open. 00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:06.930 That's why we're giving them 00:39:06.930 --> 00:39:07.200 away. 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:08.780 And literally, the lights go 00:39:08.780 --> 00:39:11.200 down, you hear people like, and 00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:13.200 like, and like that. 00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:15.200 And I'll do the ping-pong. 00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:17.200 Thousands of mints. 00:39:17.200 --> 00:39:19.370 And so they don't get like a 00:39:19.370 --> 00:39:21.460 Tom and Jerry thing, and you 00:39:21.460 --> 00:39:23.200 have your glasses, you have 00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:24.200 my glasses. 00:39:24.200 --> 00:39:26.030 You get a Tom and Jerry cartoon 00:39:26.030 --> 00:39:28.200 , and then it starts. 00:39:28.200 --> 00:39:30.380 And it was, the movie was 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:33.090 intended to make fun of the 3D 00:39:33.090 --> 00:39:34.200 effects. 00:39:34.200 --> 00:39:35.650 So every opportunity people 00:39:35.650 --> 00:39:37.200 like to stick their head out, 00:39:37.200 --> 00:39:39.200 and you know, the leg is coming 00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:40.270 in, and the arms are going like 00:39:40.270 --> 00:39:41.440 that, and they're pouring water 00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:42.200 into the camera. 00:39:42.200 --> 00:39:43.200 And it was totally cheesy. 00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:45.270 And Don was right at a certain 00:39:45.270 --> 00:39:47.340 point we should have had a squ 00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:48.200 irt gun. 00:39:48.200 --> 00:39:49.390 Just to kind of squirt the 00:39:49.390 --> 00:39:50.730 audience because there was 00:39:50.730 --> 00:39:52.200 definitely a money shot. 00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:54.200 It was just so fucking weird. 00:39:54.200 --> 00:39:57.200 Oh, god, I don't know why. 00:39:57.200 --> 00:39:59.040 And you can see all the actors 00:39:59.040 --> 00:40:00.560 trying to like shoot the 00:40:00.560 --> 00:40:02.200 audience, and they're like, oh, 00:40:02.200 --> 00:40:04.200 who's this authority? 00:40:04.200 --> 00:40:05.420 I'm just thinking, I'm going to 00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:06.200 pass the screen. 00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:07.200 Oh, now I'm getting it. 00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:08.200 I'm going to get the mirror. 00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:11.590 I'm just going to try to lean, 00:40:11.590 --> 00:40:15.200 and Don goes, that's my mom! 00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:18.200 It was a fucking trip, man. 00:40:18.200 --> 00:40:20.200 Oh, god. 00:40:20.200 --> 00:40:21.970 That's like having a soundtrack 00:40:21.970 --> 00:40:22.200 . 00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:24.020 I want to Doug Cate, like walk 00:40:24.020 --> 00:40:25.960 behind me everywhere, and like 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:28.200 be my soundtrack, like 00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:28.200 announcing 00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:29.560 everything that I was doing, 00:40:29.560 --> 00:40:31.200 sort of narrating my existence. 00:40:31.200 --> 00:40:32.620 Now I just realize Don would be 00:40:32.620 --> 00:40:34.200 even better for that, you know? 00:40:34.200 --> 00:40:35.690 She could be explaining what 00:40:35.690 --> 00:40:37.340 everything, you know, what's 00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:38.200 going on around, and what kind 00:40:38.200 --> 00:40:39.750 of underwear they're wearing, 00:40:39.750 --> 00:40:41.400 and what they're thinking, and 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.200 whatever else they're going on 00:40:44.200 --> 00:40:45.200 in there. 00:40:45.200 --> 00:40:46.520 It was something else sitting 00:40:46.520 --> 00:40:47.680 across from Don and drew at 00:40:47.680 --> 00:40:48.200 dinner. 00:40:48.200 --> 00:40:49.200 That's nice. 00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:50.200 They were really nice people. 00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:52.200 So what are they like? 00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:53.200 Sweet. 00:40:53.200 --> 00:40:55.200 I told them Ole and Lena jokes. 00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:58.200 You know Ole and Lena jokes? 00:40:58.200 --> 00:40:59.200 From my scripting. 00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:00.200 Yeah, exactly. 00:41:00.200 --> 00:41:02.360 They were from Wisconsin, and 00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:04.190 they never heard of Ole and 00:41:04.190 --> 00:41:06.200 Lena jokes, so they were all 00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:06.200 new 00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:07.200 for them. 00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:09.200 And, you know, that was nice. 00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:10.550 Their friends who were from 00:41:10.550 --> 00:41:12.200 Minnesota, they knew about it. 00:41:12.200 --> 00:41:13.830 From Minnesota, they knew all 00:41:13.830 --> 00:41:15.460 about Ole and Lena jokes, so it 00:41:15.460 --> 00:41:16.200 was nice. 00:41:16.200 --> 00:41:18.470 And, I don't know, it was all 00:41:18.470 --> 00:41:20.200 about vibe, I think. 00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:21.230 It was just all about, like, 00:41:21.230 --> 00:41:22.200 hey, how are you doing? 00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:23.200 It's nice to see you. 00:41:23.200 --> 00:41:24.980 We're mimicking each other's 00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:26.910 accents, singing each other's 00:41:26.910 --> 00:41:28.200 songs, you know? 00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:30.970 So it's drew the sunny or, you 00:41:30.970 --> 00:41:34.200 know, the eye-turner of that? 00:41:34.200 --> 00:41:35.200 No. 00:41:35.200 --> 00:41:38.060 Oh, he's the flamboyant one, 00:41:38.060 --> 00:41:39.200 for sure. 00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:40.350 Yeah, but he knows exactly how 00:41:40.350 --> 00:41:41.200 to push the button. 00:41:41.200 --> 00:41:42.980 He's the straight man, for sure 00:41:42.980 --> 00:41:43.200 . 00:41:43.200 --> 00:41:44.570 Yeah, but we were in line 00:41:44.570 --> 00:41:46.200 waiting for George Burns. 00:41:46.200 --> 00:41:47.320 Yeah, George is great, so he's 00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:48.200 more like it, yeah. 00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:49.200 We're waiting in line, and... 00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:50.200 We're waiting in line. 00:41:50.200 --> 00:41:51.200 We're waiting in line. 00:41:51.200 --> 00:41:53.200 It's the way they talk. 00:41:53.200 --> 00:41:54.200 It is exactly the way... 00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:55.200 There's nothing... 00:41:55.200 --> 00:41:56.200 Right. 00:41:56.200 --> 00:41:57.460 They didn't learn a new way of 00:41:57.460 --> 00:41:58.930 communicating, they didn't see 00:41:58.930 --> 00:41:59.200 it. 00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:00.900 No, they just learned to turn 00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:02.200 on the microphone. 00:42:02.200 --> 00:42:04.020 And, she really liked the whole 00:42:04.020 --> 00:42:05.420 user thing, too, she was 00:42:05.420 --> 00:42:06.200 telling me about that. 00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:07.820 They didn't know nothing about 00:42:07.820 --> 00:42:09.420 the software industry, so none 00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:10.200 of the sort of... 00:42:10.200 --> 00:42:11.330 That was the thing I kept 00:42:11.330 --> 00:42:12.750 hearing from people, what's 00:42:12.750 --> 00:42:13.200 that? 00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:14.200 None of the... 00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:15.200 I say you think. 00:42:15.200 --> 00:42:17.200 I think, yeah, I think. 00:42:17.200 --> 00:42:18.210 The funny thing was, I heard 00:42:18.210 --> 00:42:19.620 that from a lot of people, was 00:42:19.620 --> 00:42:21.200 that they didn't understand 00:42:21.200 --> 00:42:23.200 what the whole shtick was. 00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:24.700 I really appreciated what you 00:42:24.700 --> 00:42:26.100 said there, that there's a 00:42:26.100 --> 00:42:27.830 whole history of this, and it 00:42:27.830 --> 00:42:30.200 goes back long, long ways. 00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:32.510 Bringing Bargher Khan to 00:42:32.510 --> 00:42:34.860 Silicon Valley, I think it was 00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:36.230 inevitable that we would go 00:42:36.230 --> 00:42:37.200 through... 00:42:37.200 --> 00:42:39.400 Well, you waited a long time to 00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:40.200 do this. 00:42:40.200 --> 00:42:41.200 Long enough, yeah. 00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:43.200 I guess three... 00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:45.090 No, this is the third Bargher 00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:46.200 Khan, right? 00:42:46.200 --> 00:42:49.200 What else was the long time? 00:42:49.200 --> 00:42:51.840 I just, you know, I think it 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:53.200 was... 00:42:53.200 --> 00:42:55.320 You were taking it slowly 00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:57.640 because you were concerned 00:42:57.640 --> 00:42:58.880 about the impact of the kinds 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.200 of things that actually went... 00:43:01.200 --> 00:43:03.200 There was a little flare. 00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:04.420 We never would have gotten the 00:43:04.420 --> 00:43:05.490 thing off the ground if the 00:43:05.490 --> 00:43:06.680 first one had been in Silicon 00:43:06.680 --> 00:43:07.200 Valley. 00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:08.770 It wouldn't have launched at 00:43:08.770 --> 00:43:09.200 all. 00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:11.200 You needed to have... 00:43:11.200 --> 00:43:12.830 First, we needed to get the 00:43:12.830 --> 00:43:15.110 sort of format down, this idea 00:43:15.110 --> 00:43:17.200 that users... 00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:19.200 We saw it, the users didn't... 00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:20.750 Some of the users didn't even 00:43:20.750 --> 00:43:22.200 want to be independent. 00:43:22.200 --> 00:43:23.730 They wanted the vendors to tell 00:43:23.730 --> 00:43:25.200 them what to do, you know? 00:43:25.200 --> 00:43:27.280 Yes, you know, people like to 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:28.200 be... 00:43:28.200 --> 00:43:29.760 They sort of split between 00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.530 wanting to be free and wanting 00:43:31.530 --> 00:43:33.170 to be controlled because it 00:43:33.170 --> 00:43:34.200 feels safer. 00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:36.030 Yeah, well, I think eventually 00:43:36.030 --> 00:43:37.660 they can have what they want if 00:43:37.660 --> 00:43:39.380 they want to be controlled, or 00:43:39.380 --> 00:43:40.610 maybe not controlled isn't the 00:43:40.610 --> 00:43:42.200 right word, but... 00:43:42.200 --> 00:43:43.900 We still have a ways to go 00:43:43.900 --> 00:43:45.200 before... 00:43:45.200 --> 00:43:46.670 I mean, if this is going to be 00:43:46.670 --> 00:43:48.030 a commercial market where 00:43:48.030 --> 00:43:49.890 people sell products and, you 00:43:49.890 --> 00:43:52.200 know, users get what they want, 00:43:52.200 --> 00:43:55.590 we can't have a trade show, a 00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:57.200 floor show, or... 00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:58.650 Because, you know, what's going 00:43:58.650 --> 00:43:59.890 to happen, and the vendors are 00:43:59.890 --> 00:44:00.900 going to want to put people on 00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:03.200 panels and, you know, whatever. 00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:05.920 You know, as I said, in my 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:08.220 comments, I've been involved in 00:44:08.220 --> 00:44:09.610 a bunch of these kinds of shows 00:44:09.610 --> 00:44:10.200 in the past, 00:44:10.200 --> 00:44:12.020 and, you know, there are good 00:44:12.020 --> 00:44:13.630 reasons to do those kinds of 00:44:13.630 --> 00:44:14.200 shows. 00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:15.690 The only thing that really kind 00:44:15.690 --> 00:44:17.040 of turned the corner for me is 00:44:17.040 --> 00:44:18.700 that there are about 30 of them 00:44:18.700 --> 00:44:19.200 a year, as you said. 00:44:19.200 --> 00:44:20.950 And, you know, can't we just 00:44:20.950 --> 00:44:22.490 have one that doesn't do it 00:44:22.490 --> 00:44:23.200 that way? 00:44:23.200 --> 00:44:24.200 Right. 00:44:24.200 --> 00:44:25.200 Yeah, so... 00:44:25.200 --> 00:44:26.990 The answer is yes. I mean, 90% 00:44:26.990 --> 00:44:28.200 of the people in the room 00:44:28.200 --> 00:44:30.420 either didn't understand what 00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:31.200 the big thing was, 00:44:31.200 --> 00:44:33.580 or felt that, you know, they 00:44:33.580 --> 00:44:35.980 were being heard for the first 00:44:35.980 --> 00:44:38.200 time and that felt good. 00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:39.830 You know, so, yeah, I mean, the 00:44:39.830 --> 00:44:41.200 answer is yes, you can. 00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:43.200 And that kind of corresponds, 00:44:43.200 --> 00:44:45.000 not kind of, it corresponds 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:46.340 directly to the feeling of 00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:47.760 doing a podcast where you can 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:48.200 suddenly just, 00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:49.730 I mean, I can say anything I 00:44:49.730 --> 00:44:51.530 want, I mean, I can do anything 00:44:51.530 --> 00:44:52.200 I want. 00:44:52.200 --> 00:44:53.400 It's just like a blog, too, in 00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:54.520 the name of the conference's 00:44:54.520 --> 00:44:55.200 blogger con. 00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:56.940 So it would be ridiculous to 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.600 have gone through all this 00:44:58.600 --> 00:45:01.210 trouble to be independent 00:45:01.210 --> 00:45:02.200 through our web blogs, 00:45:02.200 --> 00:45:03.720 only to turn the whole thing 00:45:03.720 --> 00:45:05.320 over to a bunch of technology 00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:06.200 companies. 00:45:06.200 --> 00:45:08.370 I mean, that would be... it 00:45:08.370 --> 00:45:09.650 wouldn't work, it wouldn't 00:45:09.650 --> 00:45:10.200 happen. 00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:12.730 Well, it was, you know, 00:45:12.730 --> 00:45:15.270 uncomfortable and worth every 00:45:15.270 --> 00:45:16.200 moment. 00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:17.710 Yeah, I like the way you put 00:45:17.710 --> 00:45:18.200 that. 00:45:18.200 --> 00:45:19.200 Yeah. 00:45:19.200 --> 00:45:22.040 So, overall, were you pleased 00:45:22.040 --> 00:45:24.200 with the conference? 00:45:24.200 --> 00:45:27.200 Yeah, I mean, it was too short. 00:45:27.200 --> 00:45:29.200 And at the same time, I had... 00:45:29.200 --> 00:45:31.720 Well, I put my head down this 00:45:31.720 --> 00:45:33.180 afternoon just to relax for a 00:45:33.180 --> 00:45:34.200 couple of minutes. 00:45:34.200 --> 00:45:36.200 Yeah, and... 00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:37.190 Well, what my point is, is that 00:45:37.190 --> 00:45:38.200 I'm saying it was too short, 00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:39.420 yet at the same time I was 00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:40.200 exhausted. 00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:41.820 I mean, I heard a lot of people 00:45:41.820 --> 00:45:43.850 say, "Well, that was, you know, 00:45:43.850 --> 00:45:45.200 it felt like a week." 00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:47.540 But, you know, that was a good 00:45:47.540 --> 00:45:48.200 week. 00:45:48.200 --> 00:45:49.940 It was very intense on an 00:45:49.940 --> 00:45:51.930 emotional level, which I don't 00:45:51.930 --> 00:45:53.640 think people really picked up 00:45:53.640 --> 00:45:55.200 on until after the fact. 00:45:55.200 --> 00:45:56.200 You know, people like... 00:45:56.200 --> 00:45:57.280 It's so interesting, he wasn't 00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:58.200 here for the first part. 00:45:58.200 --> 00:45:59.780 That's exactly the only thing 00:45:59.780 --> 00:46:01.560 that matters at the conference, 00:46:01.560 --> 00:46:02.920 is that's because it had an 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:04.200 emotional dimension. 00:46:04.200 --> 00:46:05.700 And most conferences try to st 00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:06.790 ifle it, so the emotions go out 00:46:06.790 --> 00:46:08.200 of the room, you know, 00:46:08.200 --> 00:46:10.100 and they become one-on-one 00:46:10.100 --> 00:46:12.340 conversations usually about 00:46:12.340 --> 00:46:13.200 frustration, 00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:14.320 is what people talk about when 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:15.530 they're in the hallway, when 00:46:15.530 --> 00:46:16.710 they can't, like, be heard in 00:46:16.710 --> 00:46:18.200 the main room, you know. 00:46:18.200 --> 00:46:20.320 So that it was emotional, to me 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:22.200 , means that it worked. 00:46:22.200 --> 00:46:23.350 Well, you know, I was sitting 00:46:23.350 --> 00:46:24.200 next to Ross Rader. 00:46:24.200 --> 00:46:26.200 Is that his name, last night? 00:46:26.200 --> 00:46:27.200 Yeah, from Cadetson. 00:46:27.200 --> 00:46:29.950 The guy just, to my right, to 00:46:29.950 --> 00:46:31.200 your left. 00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:32.200 Oh, okay, yes. 00:46:32.200 --> 00:46:33.200 Yeah. 00:46:33.200 --> 00:46:35.510 And he was talking about the 00:46:35.510 --> 00:46:38.200 first source code that he heard 00:46:38.200 --> 00:46:39.550 was the one where you talked 00:46:39.550 --> 00:46:40.200 about your mother. 00:46:40.200 --> 00:46:41.200 Yeah. 00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:44.060 And all of a sudden, he was, 00:46:44.060 --> 00:46:46.470 you know, he, this, he was 00:46:46.470 --> 00:46:47.600 transported, the way I 00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:49.200 described to him was, 00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:50.640 "Yeah, this is not a toy. This 00:46:50.640 --> 00:46:52.200 is real life." 00:46:52.200 --> 00:46:53.200 Yeah. 00:46:53.200 --> 00:46:55.090 And there was just this 00:46:55.090 --> 00:46:57.460 enormous amount of power and 00:46:57.460 --> 00:46:59.200 emotion and, you know, 00:46:59.200 --> 00:47:01.610 suddenly entering this new 00:47:01.610 --> 00:47:03.200 dimension for him. 00:47:03.200 --> 00:47:04.730 And he just realized that this 00:47:04.730 --> 00:47:06.200 is a whole lot more powerful 00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:08.730 than just some sort of Wayne's 00:47:08.730 --> 00:47:10.200 World or whatever. 00:47:10.200 --> 00:47:11.300 Not to put Wayne's World down, 00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:12.200 but, yeah. 00:47:12.200 --> 00:47:13.200 Wayne's World is great. 00:47:13.200 --> 00:47:16.510 Yes, I think that that, I think 00:47:16.510 --> 00:47:18.070 that that was, that came across 00:47:18.070 --> 00:47:19.200 in the conference. 00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:21.540 It came in waves, it would, you 00:47:21.540 --> 00:47:24.200 know, ebb and flow, of course. 00:47:24.200 --> 00:47:26.040 But, you know, I can't wait to 00:47:26.040 --> 00:47:27.500 hear some of the, of the 00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:28.200 podcasts. 00:47:28.200 --> 00:47:29.200 Podcasts, yeah. 00:47:29.200 --> 00:47:31.200 Like the Larry Lessig session. 00:47:31.200 --> 00:47:32.200 I really want to hear that. 00:47:32.200 --> 00:47:33.200 Did you, did you, did you, 00:47:33.200 --> 00:47:35.200 No, I was in the, you know, the 00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:37.200 quote making money session. 00:47:37.200 --> 00:47:40.200 And so I looked at the, 00:47:40.200 --> 00:47:41.450 That was a good one. I thought 00:47:41.450 --> 00:47:42.200 that worked pretty well. 00:47:42.200 --> 00:47:43.200 Yeah. 00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:44.510 Well, you know, I was amazed 00:47:44.510 --> 00:47:45.890 that you allowed Dr. Hughes a 00:47:45.890 --> 00:47:47.200 powerful heart attack. 00:47:47.200 --> 00:47:48.200 He asked about it. 00:47:48.200 --> 00:47:49.600 He asked, you know, to his 00:47:49.600 --> 00:47:50.200 credit. 00:47:50.200 --> 00:47:52.450 And that just says that there's 00:47:52.450 --> 00:47:54.110 no rule that is without 00:47:54.110 --> 00:47:55.200 exception. 00:47:55.200 --> 00:47:57.170 I mean, basically the reason 00:47:57.170 --> 00:47:59.210 why I don't allow power points 00:47:59.210 --> 00:48:00.570 is because most people use 00:48:00.570 --> 00:48:02.200 power points as crutches 00:48:02.200 --> 00:48:03.810 because they're terrified to 00:48:03.810 --> 00:48:05.200 stand up in front of a room and 00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:05.200 be. 00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:05.850 He's using a board like a 00:48:05.850 --> 00:48:06.200 banner. 00:48:06.200 --> 00:48:07.860 Right. But he's not like that 00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:08.200 at all. 00:48:08.200 --> 00:48:10.310 I mean, Doc is a professional 00:48:10.310 --> 00:48:11.840 speaker and, and, you know, he 00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:12.200 's not good. 00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:13.350 He's a professional stand-up 00:48:13.350 --> 00:48:14.200 comedian as well. 00:48:14.200 --> 00:48:15.200 Exactly. 00:48:15.200 --> 00:48:16.720 I mean, so the thing is, is 00:48:16.720 --> 00:48:18.200 that, you know, the reason I 00:48:18.200 --> 00:48:19.520 don't let people do it is 00:48:19.520 --> 00:48:21.240 because it's just, it's 00:48:21.240 --> 00:48:22.200 ridiculous. 00:48:22.200 --> 00:48:23.920 Go through your fear. Be scared 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:25.200 . That's fine. 00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:26.200 You're going to survive this. 00:48:26.200 --> 00:48:28.200 It's not going to be terrible. 00:48:28.200 --> 00:48:29.200 And you'll, 00:48:29.200 --> 00:48:30.030 We were all wondering there 00:48:30.030 --> 00:48:30.200 when. 00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:31.350 You'll be a billion percent 00:48:31.350 --> 00:48:33.520 better if you're, what, you're 00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:34.200 wondering why. 00:48:34.200 --> 00:48:35.200 When, you know, the, 00:48:35.200 --> 00:48:36.410 Why the PowerPoint was 00:48:36.410 --> 00:48:37.200 permitted. Is that what you're 00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:37.200 doing? 00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:39.460 No, no, no. I'm just teasing 00:48:39.460 --> 00:48:41.180 you about whether we were all 00:48:41.180 --> 00:48:42.540 going to survive it when you 00:48:42.540 --> 00:48:44.200 put the mic down and we're, 00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:45.200 Oh yeah. 00:48:45.200 --> 00:48:46.200 That was pretty intense. 00:48:46.200 --> 00:48:46.800 Proudling around the back of 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:47.760 the room there. That was pretty 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.200 intense. 00:48:48.200 --> 00:48:49.200 Oh wait, I'm sorry. 00:48:49.200 --> 00:48:50.200 I don't think you were there. 00:48:50.200 --> 00:48:51.750 No, I wasn't. I've only heard 00:48:51.750 --> 00:48:52.200 about it. 00:48:52.200 --> 00:48:53.200 Yeah. 00:48:53.200 --> 00:48:54.590 Well, you want to know 00:48:54.590 --> 00:48:55.200 something, Steve? 00:48:55.200 --> 00:48:56.500 I'll owe you personal debt of 00:48:56.500 --> 00:48:57.200 gratitude. 00:48:57.200 --> 00:48:58.560 Well, for many reasons, but 00:48:58.560 --> 00:49:00.250 another one yesterday was I 00:49:00.250 --> 00:49:01.690 couldn't leave the room until 00:49:01.690 --> 00:49:03.200 somebody said what you said, 00:49:03.200 --> 00:49:04.700 which is that you support where 00:49:04.700 --> 00:49:05.200 I was at. 00:49:05.200 --> 00:49:06.200 Okay. 00:49:06.200 --> 00:49:08.210 At that moment, right, I could 00:49:08.210 --> 00:49:09.620 pick up and go to the next 00:49:09.620 --> 00:49:11.860 session and let the best happen 00:49:11.860 --> 00:49:12.200 . 00:49:12.200 --> 00:49:13.370 You know, let, you know, I 00:49:13.370 --> 00:49:14.910 understand people were confused 00:49:14.910 --> 00:49:16.200 about what had happened there 00:49:16.200 --> 00:49:18.200 and what were the ground rules, 00:49:18.200 --> 00:49:20.160 you know, you know, that was a 00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:21.200 lot of confusion. 00:49:21.200 --> 00:49:22.250 We knew that this was the 00:49:22.250 --> 00:49:23.450 session that was going to be 00:49:23.450 --> 00:49:24.200 the problem. 00:49:24.200 --> 00:49:25.200 We knew it. 00:49:25.200 --> 00:49:27.420 I mean, I spent, you know, days 00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:28.830 talking with Scoble about this 00:49:28.830 --> 00:49:29.200 one. 00:49:29.200 --> 00:49:29.910 He wanted to wear an Apple t- 00:49:29.910 --> 00:49:30.200 shirt. 00:49:30.200 --> 00:49:32.730 I said, no, Scoble, you don't 00:49:32.730 --> 00:49:34.200 wear an Apple t-shirt. 00:49:34.200 --> 00:49:35.200 Why? 00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:36.660 You know, because we don't 00:49:36.660 --> 00:49:38.200 really want to get fired. 00:49:38.200 --> 00:49:39.390 Yeah, the guy works at 00:49:39.390 --> 00:49:40.920 Microsoft. He thinks it's cool 00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:41.910 to be in Silicon Valley wearing 00:49:41.910 --> 00:49:42.200 it. 00:49:42.200 --> 00:49:45.020 Hey, I'm taking pictures of the 00:49:45.020 --> 00:49:47.510 Apple's Macs coming into the 00:49:47.510 --> 00:49:48.200 bag. 00:49:48.200 --> 00:49:51.200 But it was supposed to happen. 00:49:51.200 --> 00:49:52.500 What happened there was 00:49:52.500 --> 00:49:54.200 supposed to happen, Steve. 00:49:54.200 --> 00:49:55.200 In other words, 00:49:55.200 --> 00:49:57.490 Is that what this, I planned it 00:49:57.490 --> 00:49:58.200 all. 00:49:58.200 --> 00:50:00.080 Well, I knew that that tension 00:50:00.080 --> 00:50:01.900 was going to be in the building 00:50:01.900 --> 00:50:02.200 . 00:50:02.200 --> 00:50:03.620 It's like the making money 00:50:03.620 --> 00:50:05.200 session had to be there too, 00:50:05.200 --> 00:50:06.200 okay? 00:50:06.200 --> 00:50:08.580 Because otherwise, like I said 00:50:08.580 --> 00:50:09.200 in the opening, it's like, 00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:10.200 if you don't have it there, 00:50:10.200 --> 00:50:11.580 every session is going to be 00:50:11.580 --> 00:50:12.200 about it. 00:50:12.200 --> 00:50:15.220 If you didn't have the vendors 00:50:15.220 --> 00:50:17.130 in the room without calling it 00:50:17.130 --> 00:50:19.200 the vendor's session, right? 00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:20.930 Then that tension would have 00:50:20.930 --> 00:50:22.650 been in every session more or 00:50:22.650 --> 00:50:23.200 less. 00:50:23.200 --> 00:50:24.760 They would have been spread 00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:25.810 around and it never would have 00:50:25.810 --> 00:50:26.200 happened. 00:50:26.200 --> 00:50:28.170 And then it did happen in Scott 00:50:28.170 --> 00:50:30.200 Rosenberg's session as well. 00:50:30.200 --> 00:50:31.910 Really? See, I wasn't there for 00:50:31.910 --> 00:50:32.200 that. 00:50:32.200 --> 00:50:34.200 But it was a non-bent. 00:50:34.200 --> 00:50:36.200 Scott called on me. 00:50:36.200 --> 00:50:38.440 The guy was starting to talk 00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:40.200 about a side of his. 00:50:40.200 --> 00:50:41.570 I was sitting in the back and 00:50:41.570 --> 00:50:45.260 Scott said, Dave, what should I 00:50:45.260 --> 00:50:46.200 do? 00:50:46.200 --> 00:50:47.640 And literally what I said to 00:50:47.640 --> 00:50:50.200 him was, I trust you, Scott. 00:50:50.200 --> 00:50:51.470 And then Scott said, please, 00:50:51.470 --> 00:50:52.200 let's move on. 00:50:52.200 --> 00:50:54.200 I'll go to the next guy. 00:50:54.200 --> 00:50:55.200 No problem. 00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:57.200 I was talked about later. 00:50:57.200 --> 00:50:58.500 I was explained to the guy that 00:50:58.500 --> 00:51:00.120 basically this was just a 00:51:00.120 --> 00:51:01.200 judgment call. 00:51:01.200 --> 00:51:02.560 We don't know if we were right 00:51:02.560 --> 00:51:03.200 or wrong. 00:51:03.200 --> 00:51:05.200 But, you know-- 00:51:05.200 --> 00:51:06.620 I mean, it means that we 00:51:06.620 --> 00:51:08.280 learned how to be handled on 00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.200 the part of all parties. 00:51:09.200 --> 00:51:10.200 Correct. 00:51:10.200 --> 00:51:11.940 And now the thing is that 00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:14.230 journalists deal with this all 00:51:14.230 --> 00:51:15.200 the time. 00:51:15.200 --> 00:51:16.400 This is no big deal for 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:18.530 journalists to figure out where 00:51:18.530 --> 00:51:20.010 somebody's conflict of interest 00:51:20.010 --> 00:51:20.200 lies 00:51:20.200 --> 00:51:22.360 and ask them not to walk right 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:23.200 into it. 00:51:23.200 --> 00:51:24.950 For journalists, journalists 00:51:24.950 --> 00:51:26.200 have to be conspicuous. 00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:27.710 There's nothing wrong with 00:51:27.710 --> 00:51:29.420 technologists doing the same 00:51:29.420 --> 00:51:30.200 damn thing. 00:51:30.200 --> 00:51:31.070 There's nothing wrong with that 00:51:31.070 --> 00:51:31.200 . 00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:33.650 The blogosphere has permanently 00:51:33.650 --> 00:51:35.580 erased the boundaries between 00:51:35.580 --> 00:51:38.470 journalists and developers and 00:51:38.470 --> 00:51:39.200 users. 00:51:39.200 --> 00:51:41.200 That's my opinion. 00:51:41.200 --> 00:51:45.110 So, you know, everybody has to 00:51:45.110 --> 00:51:47.200 examine those-- 00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:49.200 We all have to be aware-- 00:51:49.200 --> 00:51:50.200 Right. 00:51:50.200 --> 00:51:50.910 We have to disclose our 00:51:50.910 --> 00:51:51.900 interests that are relevant to 00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:52.730 the discussion that we're 00:51:52.730 --> 00:51:53.200 having. 00:51:53.200 --> 00:51:55.060 And, yeah, I mean, and even 00:51:55.060 --> 00:51:56.790 that's not always black and 00:51:56.790 --> 00:51:57.200 white, 00:51:57.200 --> 00:51:58.330 it's whether you can even 00:51:58.330 --> 00:51:59.540 disclose the conflicts of 00:51:59.540 --> 00:52:00.200 interest. 00:52:00.200 --> 00:52:02.200 Sometimes you can't, right? 00:52:02.200 --> 00:52:03.710 And then you have to exercise 00:52:03.710 --> 00:52:05.480 judgment on whether or not you 00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:07.200 should even have an opinion 00:52:07.200 --> 00:52:08.280 or state an opinion about this 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:09.200 particular subject. 00:52:09.200 --> 00:52:10.250 If you can't disclose the 00:52:10.250 --> 00:52:11.830 conflict of interest, then you 00:52:11.830 --> 00:52:12.840 maybe want to just recuse 00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:13.200 yourself 00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:15.560 and not say anything, which is 00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:16.200 kind of what-- 00:52:16.200 --> 00:52:18.650 You know, or on the side of 00:52:18.650 --> 00:52:20.200 just listening is not-- 00:52:20.200 --> 00:52:21.200 was not a bad approach. 00:52:21.200 --> 00:52:22.590 It was what the six-apart 00:52:22.590 --> 00:52:23.200 people-- 00:52:23.200 --> 00:52:24.880 I talked with Ben and Mina 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.200 before the session and said, 00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:27.200 you know, 00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:28.680 "There is a rule I just want to 00:52:28.680 --> 00:52:30.200 make sure you're aware of it, 00:52:30.200 --> 00:52:31.040 that, you know, vendors aren't 00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:31.830 allowed to talk about their own 00:52:31.830 --> 00:52:32.200 products." 00:52:32.200 --> 00:52:34.100 And they said, basically, we're 00:52:34.100 --> 00:52:35.530 quiet people anyway, so it's 00:52:35.530 --> 00:52:36.200 not a problem for us. 00:52:36.200 --> 00:52:38.500 I talked with Scott Johnson at 00:52:38.500 --> 00:52:40.100 Feester and Scott actually 00:52:40.100 --> 00:52:41.200 thanked me for doing it. 00:52:41.200 --> 00:52:42.880 He said, "I'm not the kind of 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:43.810 person who promotes my own 00:52:43.810 --> 00:52:45.200 products in public like that, 00:52:45.200 --> 00:52:46.940 and it always disturbs me when 00:52:46.940 --> 00:52:48.660 my competitors do it, because 00:52:48.660 --> 00:52:49.920 it's a line that I won't cross 00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.200 ." 00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:52.200 So, you know, it's a-- 00:52:52.200 --> 00:52:54.540 I love the idea that we could 00:52:54.540 --> 00:52:57.200 bring, you know, the same-- 00:52:57.200 --> 00:52:58.300 like you said, the same kind of 00:52:58.300 --> 00:52:59.360 integrity that you see in 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.200 journalism, 00:53:00.200 --> 00:53:02.600 the same sensitivity to, you 00:53:02.600 --> 00:53:04.650 know, not disclose conflicts of 00:53:04.650 --> 00:53:05.200 interest 00:53:05.200 --> 00:53:07.200 and making room for the people 00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:08.200 who are really-- 00:53:08.200 --> 00:53:10.340 have the most stake, which are 00:53:10.340 --> 00:53:11.770 the users, to drive the process 00:53:11.770 --> 00:53:12.200 , you know. 00:53:12.200 --> 00:53:14.460 And on the other side, there's 00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:15.950 something that came up in the 00:53:15.950 --> 00:53:18.200 politics session. 00:53:18.200 --> 00:53:20.890 Basically, you know, the 00:53:20.890 --> 00:53:23.200 conflicts of interest on the-- 00:53:23.200 --> 00:53:25.620 - Yeah. - on the journalist's 00:53:25.620 --> 00:53:26.200 side. 00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:29.200 There's been a-- there's slowly 00:53:29.200 --> 00:53:31.380 creeping into the ecosystem, if 00:53:31.380 --> 00:53:32.200 you will, 00:53:32.200 --> 00:53:35.180 the understanding that nobody 00:53:35.180 --> 00:53:37.800 is free of an opinion, least of 00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:39.200 all the journalists. 00:53:39.200 --> 00:53:40.420 The journalists are allowed to 00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:41.200 have an opinion. 00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:43.200 Well, I always thought so, but 00:53:43.200 --> 00:53:43.200 -- 00:53:43.200 --> 00:53:44.200 No, there is no. 00:53:44.200 --> 00:53:47.200 20 years ago, that would-- 00:53:47.200 --> 00:53:49.260 If you look at the rules, if 00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:49.920 you go to-- I should look on 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:50.200 Google, 00:53:50.200 --> 00:53:52.560 I guarantee you that the-- what 00:53:52.560 --> 00:53:55.520 's the-- what's the journalist's 00:53:55.520 --> 00:53:57.200 organization? 00:53:57.200 --> 00:53:58.510 Where can I look at their 00:53:58.510 --> 00:54:00.200 charter? What a journalist is? 00:54:00.200 --> 00:54:01.200 And it's-- I guarantee you-- 00:54:01.200 --> 00:54:02.690 Adam, that's one interesting 00:54:02.690 --> 00:54:04.200 thing. There really isn't one. 00:54:04.200 --> 00:54:05.200 Oh, and Holland, there is. 00:54:05.200 --> 00:54:06.200 Not here. 00:54:06.200 --> 00:54:07.200 Oh, really? 00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:08.250 They have like a medical review 00:54:08.250 --> 00:54:09.200 board for journalists. 00:54:09.200 --> 00:54:09.790 No, there's no professional 00:54:09.790 --> 00:54:10.200 organization. 00:54:10.200 --> 00:54:11.200 Really? 00:54:11.200 --> 00:54:11.830 - Yes. - Oh, that exists in 00:54:11.830 --> 00:54:12.200 Holland. 00:54:12.200 --> 00:54:13.200 Oh, no, not here. 00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:14.770 Yeah, and if you can hardly sue 00:54:14.770 --> 00:54:15.200 anyone-- 00:54:15.200 --> 00:54:16.630 That came up at the journalism 00:54:16.630 --> 00:54:17.200 session, that there's no-- 00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:18.200 Look at those ads. 00:54:18.200 --> 00:54:18.890 There's no certification 00:54:18.890 --> 00:54:20.200 process, there's no-- 00:54:20.200 --> 00:54:21.200 Really? 00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:23.090 --report of ethics, there's no 00:54:23.090 --> 00:54:24.540 form of redress, there's no 00:54:24.540 --> 00:54:25.200 place to take it. 00:54:25.200 --> 00:54:26.640 I suggested this at the 00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:28.200 journalism session. 00:54:28.200 --> 00:54:29.600 I said, "Let's do a blind study 00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:30.200 , okay?" 00:54:30.200 --> 00:54:33.130 And, you know, take 20 news 00:54:33.130 --> 00:54:35.200 articles, okay? 00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:36.820 And before the journalist 00:54:36.820 --> 00:54:38.530 writes the article, he puts in 00:54:38.530 --> 00:54:39.200 a sealed envelope 00:54:39.200 --> 00:54:40.390 what his opinion is about that 00:54:40.390 --> 00:54:41.200 subject, okay? 00:54:41.200 --> 00:54:42.200 Oh, yeah. 00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:42.780 And it goes in a sealed 00:54:42.780 --> 00:54:43.200 envelope. 00:54:43.200 --> 00:54:44.560 Then he writes a story, and he 00:54:44.560 --> 00:54:46.200 publishes it, and then you get 00:54:46.200 --> 00:54:48.200 20 readers to read it. 00:54:48.200 --> 00:54:49.690 Read the article, tell me what 00:54:49.690 --> 00:54:50.200 you think-- 00:54:50.200 --> 00:54:51.200 [static] 00:54:51.200 --> 00:54:51.820 --the opinion is on this 00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:52.200 subject. 00:54:52.200 --> 00:54:53.200 I guarantee you-- 00:54:53.200 --> 00:54:55.200 Yeah, I'm sorry. 00:54:55.200 --> 00:54:56.730 I just moved the mic and it 00:54:56.730 --> 00:54:57.200 went-- 00:54:57.200 --> 00:54:59.200 Well, in that case-- 00:54:59.200 --> 00:55:00.200 I'm sorry. 00:55:00.200 --> 00:55:01.560 Anyway, I guarantee you that we 00:55:01.560 --> 00:55:03.070 could tell you exactly what the 00:55:03.070 --> 00:55:03.200 guy believes 00:55:03.200 --> 00:55:04.200 just by reading the article. 00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:05.200 Sure. 00:55:05.200 --> 00:55:06.530 You know, so it might as well 00:55:06.530 --> 00:55:07.200 be disclosed. 00:55:07.200 --> 00:55:09.040 That contents of that envelope 00:55:09.040 --> 00:55:09.200 -- 00:55:09.200 --> 00:55:10.200 Is there a-- 00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:11.060 Is there a school of journalism 00:55:11.060 --> 00:55:11.200 ? 00:55:11.200 --> 00:55:12.450 There are lots of schools of 00:55:12.450 --> 00:55:13.200 journalism. 00:55:13.200 --> 00:55:14.200 Absolutely. 00:55:14.200 --> 00:55:14.840 There's a school of journalism 00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:15.200 at Stanford. 00:55:15.200 --> 00:55:16.200 Right. 00:55:16.200 --> 00:55:16.830 But, you know, the good 00:55:16.830 --> 00:55:18.240 journalists don't go to schools 00:55:18.240 --> 00:55:19.200 with journalists. 00:55:19.200 --> 00:55:20.560 I'm just saying that I have 00:55:20.560 --> 00:55:22.030 always read that a journalist's 00:55:22.030 --> 00:55:24.200 job is to get the facts, 00:55:24.200 --> 00:55:26.520 check the facts, and that your 00:55:26.520 --> 00:55:29.200 own opinion is allowed. 00:55:29.200 --> 00:55:30.200 No. 00:55:30.200 --> 00:55:32.060 In the United States, you said 00:55:32.060 --> 00:55:32.200 -- 00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:33.200 The old-- 00:55:33.200 --> 00:55:34.090 The only thing I agree with it 00:55:34.090 --> 00:55:34.200 -- 00:55:34.200 --> 00:55:35.200 Right. 00:55:35.200 --> 00:55:36.200 --is saying that's-- 00:55:36.200 --> 00:55:37.200 Right. 00:55:37.200 --> 00:55:38.350 The old school-- we had this 00:55:38.350 --> 00:55:38.740 came up at the DMC, Walter Me 00:55:38.740 --> 00:55:39.200 ars, who was an old-time 00:55:39.200 --> 00:55:40.720 reporter for the Associated 00:55:40.720 --> 00:55:42.460 Press, was presented to us at 00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:43.880 the blogger's breakfast as 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:44.200 being 00:55:44.200 --> 00:55:45.200 the AP blogger, okay? 00:55:45.200 --> 00:55:46.200 Right. 00:55:46.200 --> 00:55:47.200 And so he-- 00:55:47.200 --> 00:55:49.060 Well, you know, but he's a 00:55:49.060 --> 00:55:51.200 respectable, respectful people. 00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:52.600 You know, I mean, it's clear 00:55:52.600 --> 00:55:54.200 that people respect this guy. 00:55:54.200 --> 00:55:56.200 He's an institution. 00:55:56.200 --> 00:56:00.200 So David Weinberger asked him-- 00:56:00.200 --> 00:56:01.640 David was one of the Clutrain 00:56:01.640 --> 00:56:03.200 authors, a blogger. 00:56:03.200 --> 00:56:04.590 Now he's a fellow at Berkman 00:56:04.590 --> 00:56:05.200 Center. 00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:07.040 Asked him, who do you support 00:56:07.040 --> 00:56:08.200 for president? 00:56:08.200 --> 00:56:10.270 And Mears said, I can't tell 00:56:10.270 --> 00:56:11.200 you that. 00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:12.760 If I did, then I would be, you 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:14.900 know, revealing some lack of 00:56:14.900 --> 00:56:16.200 objectivity. 00:56:16.200 --> 00:56:17.200 And-- 00:56:17.200 --> 00:56:18.200 Well, that's-- 00:56:18.200 --> 00:56:19.200 You should disclose that. 00:56:19.200 --> 00:56:20.200 You should or you shouldn't? 00:56:20.200 --> 00:56:21.200 You should. 00:56:21.200 --> 00:56:21.890 Yeah, well, because you're a 00:56:21.890 --> 00:56:22.200 blogger. 00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:23.200 Yeah. 00:56:23.200 --> 00:56:24.200 You see it that way. 00:56:24.200 --> 00:56:25.200 Yeah. 00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:25.830 Now a journalist sees it the 00:56:25.830 --> 00:56:26.200 other way. 00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:27.200 You can't disclose it. 00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:28.200 You have to report, you know, 00:56:28.200 --> 00:56:29.660 you have to report as if you 00:56:29.660 --> 00:56:31.200 didn't have an opinion. 00:56:31.200 --> 00:56:32.950 But I say, and you say, and 00:56:32.950 --> 00:56:35.030 Weinberger says, and bloggers 00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:36.200 in general say, you need to 00:56:36.200 --> 00:56:36.200 tell 00:56:36.200 --> 00:56:37.050 me who you're going to vote for 00:56:37.050 --> 00:56:37.200 . 00:56:37.200 --> 00:56:38.850 So I know that I can subtract 00:56:38.850 --> 00:56:40.200 that from what you've written. 00:56:40.200 --> 00:56:41.650 It's almost a mathematical 00:56:41.650 --> 00:56:42.200 thing. 00:56:42.200 --> 00:56:44.360 Well, I got a comment today on 00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:45.200 my blog. 00:56:45.200 --> 00:56:47.200 What is your blog? 00:56:47.200 --> 00:56:49.540 I mean, I'm like, I don't know 00:56:49.540 --> 00:56:51.200 what you're doing. 00:56:51.200 --> 00:56:52.200 This is-- 00:56:52.200 --> 00:56:53.200 You have a blog? 00:56:53.200 --> 00:56:54.200 Yeah. 00:56:54.200 --> 00:56:55.200 And what's the URL? 00:56:55.200 --> 00:56:56.200 It's the URL. 00:56:56.200 --> 00:56:57.200 Come on, plug it in. 00:56:57.200 --> 00:56:59.200 I have no idea what the URL is. 00:56:59.200 --> 00:57:00.200 What? 00:57:00.200 --> 00:57:01.740 The base camp, if you will, is 00:57:01.740 --> 00:57:03.200 blogs.zdinets.com. 00:57:03.200 --> 00:57:04.200 Okay. 00:57:04.200 --> 00:57:07.300 And it's probably slash Gilmore 00:57:07.300 --> 00:57:09.200 with a capital G. 00:57:09.200 --> 00:57:10.910 Don't you think you should know 00:57:10.910 --> 00:57:12.200 the URL of your blog? 00:57:12.200 --> 00:57:13.470 You know, I'm new to this 00:57:13.470 --> 00:57:14.200 business. 00:57:14.200 --> 00:57:15.200 That was the thing. 00:57:15.200 --> 00:57:16.200 Mears did too. 00:57:16.200 --> 00:57:17.380 People asked him, what's the 00:57:17.380 --> 00:57:18.200 URL of your blog? 00:57:18.200 --> 00:57:19.090 I ain't to tell you this, Steve 00:57:19.090 --> 00:57:19.200 . 00:57:19.200 --> 00:57:20.200 He didn't know either. 00:57:20.200 --> 00:57:22.840 No, I know, but I don't know to 00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.200 be able to spell it out on-- 00:57:25.200 --> 00:57:26.960 This is a trade secrets or a 00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:28.200 trade secrets. 00:57:28.200 --> 00:57:29.910 So I want to know, what is 00:57:29.910 --> 00:57:31.200 trade secrets? 00:57:31.200 --> 00:57:32.690 You promised on the first 00:57:32.690 --> 00:57:34.200 broadcast of trade secrets that 00:57:34.200 --> 00:57:34.200 you were going to-- 00:57:34.200 --> 00:57:35.200 Tell us the story. 00:57:35.200 --> 00:57:36.510 On some future date, you were 00:57:36.510 --> 00:57:37.870 going to explain what it really 00:57:37.870 --> 00:57:38.200 means. 00:57:38.200 --> 00:57:39.200 Oh. 00:57:39.200 --> 00:57:40.200 And all of that stuff. 00:57:40.200 --> 00:57:41.200 That's what I want to hear. 00:57:41.200 --> 00:57:42.200 All right. 00:57:42.200 --> 00:57:43.040 It was a bar I was going to 00:57:43.040 --> 00:57:44.200 start in Palo Alto, actually. 00:57:44.200 --> 00:57:45.200 It's true. 00:57:45.200 --> 00:57:46.200 It's true. 00:57:46.200 --> 00:57:47.550 And the idea was this, is that, 00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:48.890 first of all, when I first came 00:57:48.890 --> 00:57:51.200 here, and I can say here, 00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:53.430 because we're here, right, in 00:57:53.430 --> 00:57:56.100 1979, I kept looking for the 00:57:56.100 --> 00:57:58.200 center of Silicon Valley. 00:57:58.200 --> 00:57:59.940 I'd go all over the place and 00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:01.200 go, where is it? 00:58:01.200 --> 00:58:03.200 And couldn't ever find it. 00:58:03.200 --> 00:58:04.200 There was no-- 00:58:04.200 --> 00:58:07.200 In New York, it's Times Square. 00:58:07.200 --> 00:58:09.450 In San Francisco, it's Union 00:58:09.450 --> 00:58:13.200 Square, or the Fisherman's War, 00:58:13.200 --> 00:58:15.200 or whatever. 00:58:15.200 --> 00:58:17.200 Here, there was no place. 00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:19.310 So I thought there needed to be 00:58:19.310 --> 00:58:20.200 a center. 00:58:20.200 --> 00:58:23.400 And so I thought, let's open a 00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:24.200 bar. 00:58:24.200 --> 00:58:25.880 And the benchmark would be, 00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:27.770 this is where programmers would 00:58:27.770 --> 00:58:29.200 go to get laid, which is 00:58:29.200 --> 00:58:30.200 a little clue. 00:58:30.200 --> 00:58:32.750 I was a programmer, and I was 00:58:32.750 --> 00:58:35.200 trying to get laid, OK? 00:58:35.200 --> 00:58:36.200 And I hope-- 00:58:36.200 --> 00:58:38.490 Like something has changed over 00:58:38.490 --> 00:58:39.200 there. 00:58:39.200 --> 00:58:40.200 Really? 00:58:40.200 --> 00:58:41.200 My model-- 00:58:41.200 --> 00:58:42.600 He's doing old conferences to 00:58:42.600 --> 00:58:43.200 get laid. 00:58:43.200 --> 00:58:44.200 He used to do that. 00:58:44.200 --> 00:58:46.200 It doesn't work anymore. 00:58:46.200 --> 00:58:47.960 But my benchmark, I hope he 00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:49.880 doesn't hate me for this, was 00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:52.200 that Andy Hertzfeld would be, 00:58:52.200 --> 00:58:54.070 like Andy Hertzfeld could go to 00:58:54.070 --> 00:58:55.200 trade secrets. 00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:58.580 And the image was a beautiful 00:58:58.580 --> 00:59:02.180 woman's hand in a back pocket 00:59:02.180 --> 00:59:04.920 of blue jeans, of Andy Hertz 00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:05.200 feld's 00:59:05.200 --> 00:59:06.200 blue jeans, basically. 00:59:06.200 --> 00:59:08.170 And that's where developers and 00:59:08.170 --> 00:59:09.560 users would go to party 00:59:09.560 --> 00:59:12.200 together in a whole different 00:59:12.200 --> 00:59:13.200 way. 00:59:13.200 --> 00:59:14.970 And since everybody in Silicon 00:59:14.970 --> 00:59:16.650 Valley was so secretive, and 00:59:16.650 --> 00:59:18.200 basically you had to sign 00:59:18.200 --> 00:59:19.760 the disclosures about, you know 00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:21.170 , a cute name for the bar would 00:59:21.170 --> 00:59:22.200 be trade secrets. 00:59:22.200 --> 00:59:23.200 It's a double entendre. 00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:24.200 OK, blogs. 00:59:24.200 --> 00:59:25.200 Trade secrets. 00:59:25.200 --> 00:59:28.200 It's about trade secrets. 00:59:28.200 --> 00:59:29.200 blogs.zdnet.com/gilmore. 00:59:29.200 --> 00:59:30.200 Scroll up. 00:59:30.200 --> 00:59:35.200 I'm clicking to go to it. 00:59:35.200 --> 00:59:37.410 So how do you edit your blog, 00:59:37.410 --> 00:59:38.200 Steve? 00:59:38.200 --> 00:59:40.200 He has to call his secretary. 00:59:40.200 --> 00:59:42.200 Well, I can't edit mine. 00:59:42.200 --> 00:59:43.200 The Potosphere. 00:59:43.200 --> 00:59:44.200 He's claiming the Potosphere. 00:59:44.200 --> 00:59:45.200 He's coining it. 00:59:45.200 --> 00:59:47.200 No, I had to regrow my beard. 00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:48.200 We've heard about that. 00:59:48.200 --> 00:59:49.200 And then I have to-- 00:59:49.200 --> 00:59:50.130 So he has to grow the beard 00:59:50.130 --> 00:59:51.200 back because the picture-- 00:59:51.200 --> 00:59:53.200 Here's an updated picture. 00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:55.100 But they stretched it, like Ann 00:59:55.100 --> 00:59:56.200 Wilson in Heart. 00:59:56.200 --> 00:59:58.200 And look, I've got hair here. 00:59:58.200 --> 00:59:59.200 Yeah. 00:59:59.200 --> 01:00:00.200 Oh, damn. 01:00:00.200 --> 01:00:01.200 Not here. 01:00:01.200 --> 01:00:02.200 Yeah. 01:00:02.200 --> 01:00:03.200 And I see it. 01:00:03.200 --> 01:00:04.200 Over here. 01:00:04.200 --> 01:00:05.200 I was doing a comparison. 01:00:05.200 --> 01:00:06.200 And you look kind of weak here. 01:00:06.200 --> 01:00:07.200 Yeah, that was-- 01:00:07.200 --> 01:00:08.200 You look much stronger. 01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:09.670 I think that was about two 01:00:09.670 --> 01:00:11.350 months after I got fired from 01:00:11.350 --> 01:00:12.200 Info World. 01:00:12.200 --> 01:00:13.200 OK. 01:00:13.200 --> 01:00:14.200 So I was like-- 01:00:14.200 --> 01:00:15.200 Cool. 01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:16.420 I was fired from some of the 01:00:16.420 --> 01:00:17.200 best places. 01:00:17.200 --> 01:00:18.200 Where's your RSS feed? 01:00:18.200 --> 01:00:19.200 All of them. 01:00:19.200 --> 01:00:20.370 I'm running out of places to 01:00:20.370 --> 01:00:21.200 get fired from. 01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:22.200 Where's your RSS feed? 01:00:22.200 --> 01:00:23.200 No, that's a good question. 01:00:23.200 --> 01:00:24.200 He doesn't have one, Adam. 01:00:24.200 --> 01:00:25.200 Of course I do. 01:00:25.200 --> 01:00:27.200 It just doesn't work. 01:00:27.200 --> 01:00:28.660 What's the difference between 01:00:28.660 --> 01:00:30.560 having one that doesn't work 01:00:30.560 --> 01:00:31.200 and not having one? 01:00:31.200 --> 01:00:32.200 All RSS feeds. 01:00:32.200 --> 01:00:33.200 RSS Months. 01:00:33.200 --> 01:00:35.200 Hey, it's a 2.0 feed. 01:00:35.200 --> 01:00:36.200 So you can do enclosures? 01:00:36.200 --> 01:00:37.200 Of course it is. 01:00:37.200 --> 01:00:38.200 Can you do enclosures? 01:00:38.200 --> 01:00:39.200 Well, I thought so. 01:00:39.200 --> 01:00:40.750 What is the guy's name that we 01:00:40.750 --> 01:00:42.770 were talking to last night from 01:00:42.770 --> 01:00:43.200 who just-- 01:00:43.200 --> 01:00:44.820 the guy who wrote WordPress is 01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:45.200 now a-- 01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:46.200 Matthew Molenway. 01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:47.200 He's a CNET guy. 01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:49.200 This is a CNET publication. 01:00:49.200 --> 01:00:50.200 Cool. 01:00:50.200 --> 01:00:52.200 Oh, he can help you with that. 01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:53.200 So like being yet? 01:00:53.200 --> 01:00:55.200 No, they're not using Vignette. 01:00:55.200 --> 01:00:57.290 No, this is WordPress that they 01:00:57.290 --> 01:00:58.200 're using. 01:00:58.200 --> 01:00:59.200 Is that what it is? 01:00:59.200 --> 01:01:00.200 OK. 01:01:00.200 --> 01:01:01.200 They're using-- 01:01:01.200 --> 01:01:02.980 The WordPress developer was 01:01:02.980 --> 01:01:05.200 there at BloggerCon yesterday. 01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:06.200 The guy who made it. 01:01:06.200 --> 01:01:07.200 Matthew Molenway. 01:01:07.200 --> 01:01:08.200 Right. 01:01:08.200 --> 01:01:09.200 I talked with him. 01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:11.210 And I said, I just want you to 01:01:11.210 --> 01:01:13.300 know that I got the chairman of 01:01:13.300 --> 01:01:14.200 the Socialist Party in 01:01:14.200 --> 01:01:15.200 Holland to blog. 01:01:15.200 --> 01:01:16.530 And he says, yeah, he's using 01:01:16.530 --> 01:01:17.200 WordPress. 01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:18.450 And the whole Socialist Party 01:01:18.450 --> 01:01:19.200 is on WordPress. 01:01:19.200 --> 01:01:20.200 That makes sense. 01:01:20.200 --> 01:01:21.200 Why would they use-- 01:01:21.200 --> 01:01:22.580 How many parties are there in 01:01:22.580 --> 01:01:23.200 Holland? 01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:24.200 Oh, God. 01:01:24.200 --> 01:01:26.270 I mean, is this a big party in 01:01:26.270 --> 01:01:27.200 Holland? 01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:28.200 It's gaining a lot of traction. 01:01:28.200 --> 01:01:29.620 It's the fastest growing party, 01:01:29.620 --> 01:01:30.200 for sure. 01:01:30.200 --> 01:01:32.200 And what's the reigning party? 01:01:32.200 --> 01:01:34.530 It's-- well, we don't-- this is 01:01:34.530 --> 01:01:36.190 the problem, I think, in 01:01:36.190 --> 01:01:37.200 Holland. 01:01:37.200 --> 01:01:39.290 We have-- you have to build a 01:01:39.290 --> 01:01:40.200 coalition. 01:01:40.200 --> 01:01:42.090 So most people voted for the 01:01:42.090 --> 01:01:43.200 labor party. 01:01:43.200 --> 01:01:46.660 However, the coalition, which 01:01:46.660 --> 01:01:49.200 is-- is the Christian Democrats 01:01:49.200 --> 01:01:51.200 and the kind of right-of-center 01:01:51.200 --> 01:01:52.200 Democrats. 01:01:52.200 --> 01:01:55.060 And they together have more 01:01:55.060 --> 01:01:58.200 voters than labor parties. 01:01:58.200 --> 01:01:59.670 So they are coalition and labor 01:01:59.670 --> 01:02:01.200 party is now the opposition. 01:02:01.200 --> 01:02:03.200 And this doesn't work. 01:02:03.200 --> 01:02:04.200 Right. 01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:05.200 And so they call it purple. 01:02:05.200 --> 01:02:06.770 That's-- our governments are 01:02:06.770 --> 01:02:07.200 purple. 01:02:07.200 --> 01:02:08.270 Because it's kind of like, you 01:02:08.270 --> 01:02:09.200 know, red and blue and-- 01:02:09.200 --> 01:02:10.870 Those of us who can't see my 01:02:10.870 --> 01:02:11.720 eyes, they've rolled into the 01:02:11.720 --> 01:02:12.200 back of their head. 01:02:12.200 --> 01:02:13.730 Yeah, well, that's-- it's 01:02:13.730 --> 01:02:15.200 fucked up. 01:02:15.200 --> 01:02:16.200 It's fucked up. 01:02:16.200 --> 01:02:17.170 And so Socialist Party are also 01:02:17.170 --> 01:02:18.200 , of course, opposition. 01:02:18.200 --> 01:02:19.330 But now they've got the 01:02:19.330 --> 01:02:20.960 internet and the blogging thing 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:21.200 . 01:02:21.200 --> 01:02:22.200 And it's making-- 01:02:22.200 --> 01:02:24.450 Are they going to jump into the 01:02:24.450 --> 01:02:26.200 pot-a-sphere next? 01:02:26.200 --> 01:02:27.200 I don't know about that. 01:02:27.200 --> 01:02:28.290 I mean, I'm not doing anything 01:02:28.290 --> 01:02:29.200 for Holland anymore. 01:02:29.200 --> 01:02:30.200 Fuck 'em. 01:02:30.200 --> 01:02:31.200 I'm tired. 01:02:31.200 --> 01:02:32.400 Now, I can't contribute to that 01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:33.200 country anymore. 01:02:33.200 --> 01:02:35.200 We went to that last night. 01:02:35.200 --> 01:02:37.010 Yeah, we had a couple of those 01:02:37.010 --> 01:02:37.200 -- 01:02:37.200 --> 01:02:38.200 Proverbs. 01:02:38.200 --> 01:02:40.200 That's Proverbs, which is-- 01:02:40.200 --> 01:02:41.310 The second one in particular, I 01:02:41.310 --> 01:02:42.200 thought, was really-- 01:02:42.200 --> 01:02:43.380 Yeah, which is both with my 01:02:43.380 --> 01:02:44.200 field out here. 01:02:44.200 --> 01:02:45.790 So that means any blade of 01:02:45.790 --> 01:02:47.200 grass that grows above the rest 01:02:47.200 --> 01:02:48.200 gets chopped off immediately. 01:02:48.200 --> 01:02:50.440 And, you know, since you're six 01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:51.200 , what? 01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:52.200 And I'm smoking grass. 01:02:52.200 --> 01:02:53.200 You know, that's really bad. 01:02:53.200 --> 01:02:54.320 Well, there are lots of tall 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:55.200 people in Holland. 01:02:55.200 --> 01:02:56.820 Holland is one of those weird 01:02:56.820 --> 01:02:58.200 countries, right? 01:02:58.200 --> 01:02:59.200 Yeah. 01:02:59.200 --> 01:03:01.200 They grow pretty tall there. 01:03:01.200 --> 01:03:03.060 So he's not-- I mean, he's not 01:03:03.060 --> 01:03:04.200 exceptionally tall in Holland. 01:03:04.200 --> 01:03:05.200 He's really tall for here. 01:03:05.200 --> 01:03:06.840 But it's clear what is meant by 01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:07.200 the-- 01:03:07.200 --> 01:03:08.200 Yeah, no. 01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:09.350 I first time I heard that one, 01:03:09.350 --> 01:03:10.200 it gave me chills. 01:03:10.200 --> 01:03:12.260 You told that story at the blog 01:03:12.260 --> 01:03:13.200 ger's dinner we had in Amsterdam 01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:13.200 . 01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:14.310 Yes, and Pendinga was there, 01:03:14.310 --> 01:03:15.200 and he was agreeing. 01:03:15.200 --> 01:03:17.200 They all agreed with it, yeah. 01:03:17.200 --> 01:03:18.680 They also explained to me that, 01:03:18.680 --> 01:03:19.200 you know, there's no big deal. 01:03:19.200 --> 01:03:20.320 People don't stop for 01:03:20.320 --> 01:03:21.200 celebrities. 01:03:21.200 --> 01:03:23.200 That basically it's-- 01:03:23.200 --> 01:03:24.200 It's the same thing. 01:03:24.200 --> 01:03:24.880 If you're not acting normal, 01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:25.200 fuck you. 01:03:25.200 --> 01:03:26.200 Yeah. 01:03:26.200 --> 01:03:27.200 Celebrities are hated. 01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:28.620 I hate it, because you're a 01:03:28.620 --> 01:03:29.200 celebrity. 01:03:29.200 --> 01:03:30.470 And therefore, you're acting 01:03:30.470 --> 01:03:31.200 differently. 01:03:31.200 --> 01:03:32.700 It's gotten better over the 01:03:32.700 --> 01:03:34.200 years, but not much. 01:03:34.200 --> 01:03:35.200 Interesting. 01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:36.700 But Holland was a very 01:03:36.700 --> 01:03:39.200 successful commercial country. 01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:40.200 It still is. 01:03:40.200 --> 01:03:41.200 It was. 01:03:41.200 --> 01:03:42.200 No. 01:03:42.200 --> 01:03:43.200 It's not anymore? 01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:43.930 Well, it used to be the Gateway 01:03:43.930 --> 01:03:45.460 to Europe with the Rotterdam 01:03:45.460 --> 01:03:46.200 Harbor. 01:03:46.200 --> 01:03:48.200 That's the number one thing. 01:03:48.200 --> 01:03:50.200 They built Skippel Airport, 01:03:50.200 --> 01:03:51.450 which was also intended to be a 01:03:51.450 --> 01:03:52.200 gateway to Europe. 01:03:52.200 --> 01:03:54.600 And because, hey, look, you 01:03:54.600 --> 01:03:56.290 know, either you choose for 01:03:56.290 --> 01:03:57.200 your environment, 01:03:57.200 --> 01:03:59.460 and Skippel Airport is three 01:03:59.460 --> 01:04:01.200 yards below sea level, 01:04:01.200 --> 01:04:02.800 reclaimed land, or you're going 01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:05.430 to choose for commerce and 01:04:05.430 --> 01:04:06.200 economy. 01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:07.470 And so they've limited 01:04:07.470 --> 01:04:09.200 everything on the airport. 01:04:09.200 --> 01:04:10.200 The airport can't expand. 01:04:10.200 --> 01:04:11.510 The airport, you know, okay, 01:04:11.510 --> 01:04:12.200 that's fine. 01:04:12.200 --> 01:04:13.280 But then realize that that's 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:14.200 going to Frankfurt. 01:04:14.200 --> 01:04:15.200 And it's going, you know, it's 01:04:15.200 --> 01:04:15.200 going-- 01:04:15.200 --> 01:04:16.200 Frankfurt is the-- 01:04:16.200 --> 01:04:17.280 Yeah, it's going, you know, so 01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:18.200 that traffic is going away, 01:04:18.200 --> 01:04:19.280 and you're no longer the 01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:20.200 connecting hub. 01:04:20.200 --> 01:04:22.200 And, you know, air traffic is, 01:04:22.200 --> 01:04:23.200 you know, 01:04:23.200 --> 01:04:24.090 that's very interesting 01:04:24.090 --> 01:04:25.200 business and all that shit. 01:04:25.200 --> 01:04:26.200 Uh-huh. 01:04:26.200 --> 01:04:27.640 They can't expand the harbor 01:04:27.640 --> 01:04:28.200 either. 01:04:28.200 --> 01:04:30.250 Now Antwerp Harbor is kicking 01:04:30.250 --> 01:04:31.200 their ass. 01:04:31.200 --> 01:04:34.250 They built this $15 billion 01:04:34.250 --> 01:04:35.830 railroad, which is still not 01:04:35.830 --> 01:04:36.200 completed, 01:04:36.200 --> 01:04:38.200 which was supposed to extend-- 01:04:38.200 --> 01:04:39.320 you come into the harbor and 01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:40.200 then you ship everything 01:04:40.200 --> 01:04:41.900 through Germany with trains and 01:04:41.900 --> 01:04:43.200 water and all that. 01:04:43.200 --> 01:04:44.200 Every way you can. 01:04:44.200 --> 01:04:45.900 And, you know, the builders 01:04:45.900 --> 01:04:47.540 have ripped off the government 01:04:47.540 --> 01:04:48.200 to no end. 01:04:48.200 --> 01:04:49.820 You know, this is all coming up 01:04:49.820 --> 01:04:51.200 as now we have whistleblowers 01:04:51.200 --> 01:04:52.200 and, you know, 01:04:52.200 --> 01:04:54.630 shadow accounting showing up in 01:04:54.630 --> 01:04:56.200 big garbage bags. 01:04:56.200 --> 01:04:57.900 And it's, you know, what's 01:04:57.900 --> 01:04:59.200 happening is-- 01:04:59.200 --> 01:05:01.950 and this is partly due to blogs 01:05:01.950 --> 01:05:02.200 , 01:05:02.200 --> 01:05:03.730 provably so, is the ships 01:05:03.730 --> 01:05:05.200 starting to float to the top. 01:05:05.200 --> 01:05:06.230 You know, we're finding out 01:05:06.230 --> 01:05:07.200 that everyone's corrupt. 01:05:07.200 --> 01:05:08.310 It's a very small country, so 01:05:08.310 --> 01:05:10.240 it's a lot easier to see it all 01:05:10.240 --> 01:05:11.200 happen. 01:05:11.200 --> 01:05:12.770 So the only thing they really 01:05:12.770 --> 01:05:13.200 have-- 01:05:13.200 --> 01:05:13.810 there's no more defense 01:05:13.810 --> 01:05:14.200 industry. 01:05:14.200 --> 01:05:15.280 They're barely a part of the 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:16.200 Joint Strike Fighter. 01:05:16.200 --> 01:05:18.200 Not that I'm condoning that, 01:05:18.200 --> 01:05:18.950 but, you know, it's money, 01:05:18.950 --> 01:05:19.200 right? 01:05:19.200 --> 01:05:20.640 That's how a country makes 01:05:20.640 --> 01:05:21.200 money. 01:05:21.200 --> 01:05:22.200 They're not a part of that. 01:05:22.200 --> 01:05:23.970 They've kicked out the final 01:05:23.970 --> 01:05:25.940 guy who actually, you know, 01:05:25.940 --> 01:05:27.200 built submarines. 01:05:27.200 --> 01:05:30.970 And so the only-- the sugar 01:05:30.970 --> 01:05:33.400 industry is kept high artific 01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:34.200 ially. 01:05:34.200 --> 01:05:35.450 What sugar industry were they 01:05:35.450 --> 01:05:36.200 growing there? 01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:37.200 Sugarbeets. 01:05:37.200 --> 01:05:38.200 Oh, okay. 01:05:38.200 --> 01:05:40.190 So one ton of sugar in Europe-- 01:05:40.190 --> 01:05:41.200 that's not just Holland-- 01:05:41.200 --> 01:05:43.200 in Europe cost $600. 01:05:43.200 --> 01:05:44.660 The world price-- the world 01:05:44.660 --> 01:05:46.200 market price is $200. 01:05:46.200 --> 01:05:47.720 So, you know, they're in a 01:05:47.720 --> 01:05:49.200 closed little loop there. 01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:50.430 And the only thing that I 01:05:50.430 --> 01:05:52.650 guarantee you, Holland, is the 01:05:52.650 --> 01:05:54.200 number one supplier of 01:05:54.200 --> 01:05:57.200 is marijuana and ecstasy. 01:05:57.200 --> 01:05:59.530 And every day in the paper, you 01:05:59.530 --> 01:06:02.200 know, someone is, you know, 01:06:02.200 --> 01:06:03.440 300 plants are being taken out 01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:04.200 of some apartment. 01:06:04.200 --> 01:06:05.200 That's what everyone's doing. 01:06:05.200 --> 01:06:06.200 Everyone's growing weed. 01:06:06.200 --> 01:06:07.780 Why are they taking the plants 01:06:07.780 --> 01:06:08.200 out? 01:06:08.200 --> 01:06:09.200 Well, because it's illegal. 01:06:09.200 --> 01:06:11.130 You're not allowed to grow weed 01:06:11.130 --> 01:06:12.200 in your house. 01:06:12.200 --> 01:06:12.920 You're allowed to smoke it, 01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:13.200 though. 01:06:13.200 --> 01:06:14.200 Yeah. 01:06:14.200 --> 01:06:15.200 I mean, this is-- 01:06:15.200 --> 01:06:16.200 It's not illegal, actually. 01:06:16.200 --> 01:06:17.200 It is illegal. 01:06:17.200 --> 01:06:18.200 Yes. 01:06:18.200 --> 01:06:19.520 But this is what they call ged 01:06:19.520 --> 01:06:21.200 ogh beleidt, which means 01:06:21.200 --> 01:06:23.200 permission policy. 01:06:23.200 --> 01:06:24.970 Of course, that's not the only 01:06:24.970 --> 01:06:26.700 thing that there's permission 01:06:26.700 --> 01:06:27.200 policy in, which is, 01:06:27.200 --> 01:06:29.410 you know, so eventually, laws 01:06:29.410 --> 01:06:31.200 aren't being enforced. 01:06:31.200 --> 01:06:33.200 I want to ask Steve a question. 01:06:33.200 --> 01:06:34.700 What's it like watching Adam 01:06:34.700 --> 01:06:36.400 talk after having listened to 01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:37.200 him on the podcast so much? 01:06:37.200 --> 01:06:38.990 I mean, you're sitting right 01:06:38.990 --> 01:06:40.200 across from him. 01:06:40.200 --> 01:06:41.530 Well, it was a little-- like 01:06:41.530 --> 01:06:43.860 you were telling me this at the 01:06:43.860 --> 01:06:45.200 conference yesterday, 01:06:45.200 --> 01:06:46.840 that there's this odd quality 01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:48.200 of disembodiedness. 01:06:48.200 --> 01:06:49.200 Yeah. 01:06:49.200 --> 01:06:54.200 But that was mostly last night. 01:06:54.200 --> 01:06:56.370 In this context, it's beginning 01:06:56.370 --> 01:06:57.200 to appear-- 01:06:57.200 --> 01:06:59.280 I mean, I have this weird 01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:01.350 sensation that comes from this 01:07:01.350 --> 01:07:03.200 whole space, which is that-- 01:07:03.200 --> 01:07:04.200 Excuse me. 01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:04.970 I tried to see because we can't 01:07:04.970 --> 01:07:05.200 see. 01:07:05.200 --> 01:07:06.200 I know. 01:07:06.200 --> 01:07:08.000 That's because human pissing 01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:09.200 all over me about-- 01:07:09.200 --> 01:07:10.200 That's me. 01:07:10.200 --> 01:07:12.360 Let's show it with this little, 01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:13.200 ugly guy. 01:07:13.200 --> 01:07:14.200 A little bit of play. 01:07:14.200 --> 01:07:16.200 Let's all do this together. 01:07:16.200 --> 01:07:19.200 This land is your land. 01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:20.200 This land is-- 01:07:20.200 --> 01:07:21.200 All right. 01:07:21.200 --> 01:07:22.200 I'm sorry. 01:07:22.200 --> 01:07:23.200 Yeah, you are. 01:07:23.200 --> 01:07:24.200 Yeah. 01:07:24.200 --> 01:07:25.200 I do it intentionally. 01:07:25.200 --> 01:07:26.200 Yeah. 01:07:26.200 --> 01:07:26.590 Well, you have a very 01:07:26.590 --> 01:07:27.200 distinctive voice, Steve. 01:07:27.200 --> 01:07:28.200 Yeah. 01:07:28.200 --> 01:07:29.200 You do. 01:07:29.200 --> 01:07:31.190 Is it a radio voice, or is it-- 01:07:31.190 --> 01:07:31.200 that's just your voice. 01:07:31.200 --> 01:07:32.200 I did radio once. 01:07:32.200 --> 01:07:33.200 Did you? 01:07:33.200 --> 01:07:34.200 Yeah. 01:07:34.200 --> 01:07:34.980 In Charleston when I was living 01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:36.630 there, I did an AM radio 01:07:36.630 --> 01:07:39.200 technology show. 01:07:39.200 --> 01:07:40.200 Charleston, South Carolina. 01:07:40.200 --> 01:07:41.200 South Carolina. 01:07:41.200 --> 01:07:42.200 Yeah, that's where we moved. 01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:44.830 We moved to have and bring up 01:07:44.830 --> 01:07:47.810 our children from New York City 01:07:47.810 --> 01:07:48.200 . 01:07:48.200 --> 01:07:49.200 Yeah, right off. 01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:50.200 Yeah. 01:07:50.200 --> 01:07:51.800 Sort of a similar kind of 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:53.200 sensation there. 01:07:53.200 --> 01:07:54.200 But not for the schools. 01:07:54.200 --> 01:07:56.200 That's why we moved out here. 01:07:56.200 --> 01:07:57.200 Good luck to us. 01:07:57.200 --> 01:07:59.220 The schools out here are 01:07:59.220 --> 01:08:01.200 challenged as well. 01:08:01.200 --> 01:08:02.200 Really? 01:08:02.200 --> 01:08:03.200 Yeah. 01:08:03.200 --> 01:08:04.200 Well, getting all kinds of-- 01:08:04.200 --> 01:08:04.810 Getting all kinds of kids into 01:08:04.810 --> 01:08:05.200 them as a child. 01:08:05.200 --> 01:08:06.200 It's higher educational. 01:08:06.200 --> 01:08:07.200 Well, there's that. 01:08:07.200 --> 01:08:08.200 Getting into them-- 01:08:08.200 --> 01:08:09.200 Yeah. 01:08:09.200 --> 01:08:10.200 You know. 01:08:10.200 --> 01:08:11.200 You know, I'm not a celebrity. 01:08:11.200 --> 01:08:12.830 I used to be like, "Hi, I'm 01:08:12.830 --> 01:08:13.700 Adam Cray. 01:08:13.700 --> 01:08:14.700 Sure, your kid's in." 01:08:14.700 --> 01:08:16.440 And now it's like, "Well, hello 01:08:16.440 --> 01:08:16.700 . 01:08:16.700 --> 01:08:21.700 Fuck you." 01:08:21.700 --> 01:08:25.060 So, yeah, I was on the radio 01:08:25.060 --> 01:08:26.200 there. 01:08:26.200 --> 01:08:28.840 But, you know, I once was 01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:32.200 producing a record with Proctor 01:08:32.200 --> 01:08:34.200 and Bergman, you know, two of 01:08:34.200 --> 01:08:35.200 the fireside. 01:08:35.200 --> 01:08:36.820 And I was in the studio and I 01:08:36.820 --> 01:08:38.680 was trying to get Bergman to do 01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:40.200 a line reading, which, 01:08:40.200 --> 01:08:41.070 of course, he didn't appreciate 01:08:41.070 --> 01:08:41.200 . 01:08:41.200 --> 01:08:42.200 What's a line reading? 01:08:42.200 --> 01:08:43.990 You know, I was--basically, I 01:08:43.990 --> 01:08:45.720 forget what the line was, but I 01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:47.200 said, "Well, I don't like 01:08:47.200 --> 01:08:48.200 this." 01:08:48.200 --> 01:08:49.620 And Peter says, "That's very 01:08:49.620 --> 01:08:51.260 good, Steve, but, you know, it 01:08:51.260 --> 01:08:52.200 's my record." 01:08:52.200 --> 01:08:53.200 Yeah. 01:08:53.200 --> 01:08:55.950 So, yeah, I know how to do it, 01:08:55.950 --> 01:08:58.600 but I don't think this is about 01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:00.200 radio voices. 01:09:00.200 --> 01:09:01.200 No. 01:09:01.200 --> 01:09:02.010 In fact, the thing that I 01:09:02.010 --> 01:09:03.030 noticed with almost everybody 01:09:03.030 --> 01:09:03.970 is, you know, when you hear 01:09:03.970 --> 01:09:04.200 your 01:09:04.200 --> 01:09:05.450 --when you're a kid and for the 01:09:05.450 --> 01:09:06.750 first time you heard your voice 01:09:06.750 --> 01:09:08.200 on tape, it's like, 01:09:08.200 --> 01:09:09.200 "Ooh, I sound like that." 01:09:09.200 --> 01:09:10.200 Yeah. 01:09:10.200 --> 01:09:11.350 It wasn't the "oo" thing, but I 01:09:11.350 --> 01:09:12.520 hear Steve, and of course it's 01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:14.200 different than MP3. 01:09:14.200 --> 01:09:15.200 Is it? 01:09:15.200 --> 01:09:17.200 It's a different timbre. 01:09:17.200 --> 01:09:18.200 Interesting. 01:09:18.200 --> 01:09:19.200 Well, it's certainly-- 01:09:19.200 --> 01:09:20.430 What eventually happens is your 01:09:20.430 --> 01:09:21.580 mind will recognize it and you 01:09:21.580 --> 01:09:23.200 won't hear the difference 01:09:23.200 --> 01:09:24.510 anymore because I've heard it, 01:09:24.510 --> 01:09:25.460 but I had never had that 01:09:25.460 --> 01:09:26.200 information. 01:09:26.200 --> 01:09:28.200 And everyone sounded different. 01:09:28.200 --> 01:09:29.510 But what you have, what you 01:09:29.510 --> 01:09:31.040 have as well, Dave, is you have 01:09:31.040 --> 01:09:32.200 --and I have it too. 01:09:32.200 --> 01:09:34.210 It's just there's a certain 01:09:34.210 --> 01:09:36.580 frequency range that's low that 01:09:36.580 --> 01:09:39.200 microphones like to pick 01:09:39.200 --> 01:09:40.680 up, and that is actually very 01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:42.200 comforting for listeners. 01:09:42.200 --> 01:09:44.470 You know, I think it's actually 01:09:44.470 --> 01:09:46.330 a learned characteristic 01:09:46.330 --> 01:09:49.200 because I think it goes to what 01:09:49.200 --> 01:09:49.200 you were talking 01:09:49.200 --> 01:09:50.760 about, which is when you first 01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:52.320 hear yourself on a recording, 01:09:52.320 --> 01:09:54.200 it sounds like, you know, 01:09:54.200 --> 01:09:56.130 if you do an experiment and put 01:09:56.130 --> 01:09:58.130 your finger in it, you can hear 01:09:58.130 --> 01:09:59.200 the resonance and the 01:09:59.200 --> 01:10:00.200 bunch. 01:10:00.200 --> 01:10:01.200 All that stuff is gone. 01:10:01.200 --> 01:10:02.200 Right. 01:10:02.200 --> 01:10:02.770 You don't hear that on a 01:10:02.770 --> 01:10:03.200 recording. 01:10:03.200 --> 01:10:05.110 My voice sounds a lot better 01:10:05.110 --> 01:10:07.000 when I'm talking than it does 01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:08.520 to me than when I hear it 01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:09.200 through 01:10:09.200 --> 01:10:10.200 a speaker. 01:10:10.200 --> 01:10:12.500 I mean, I am very nasal when I 01:10:12.500 --> 01:10:13.200 talk. 01:10:13.200 --> 01:10:14.600 You know, when I hear it 01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:16.560 through the speaker, then nasal 01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.200 doesn't come through for me 01:10:18.200 --> 01:10:18.200 when 01:10:18.200 --> 01:10:19.200 I'm listening to myself. 01:10:19.200 --> 01:10:20.200 I can put that in for you. 01:10:20.200 --> 01:10:21.200 No, no, no, no. 01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:23.200 The nasal is there. 01:10:23.200 --> 01:10:25.200 It's not here. 01:10:25.200 --> 01:10:26.950 I don't feel like--I feel like 01:10:26.950 --> 01:10:28.560 my voice is like not nasal at 01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:30.200 all, but then--and I hear 01:10:30.200 --> 01:10:31.200 it on the-- 01:10:31.200 --> 01:10:33.520 So, you know, the thing is, is 01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:35.640 that I think as you start to do 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:37.520 this, you start to learn 01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:38.960 how to kind of put that back in 01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:39.200 . 01:10:39.200 --> 01:10:40.200 That's something I want to say. 01:10:40.200 --> 01:10:40.990 Oh, that's something I want to 01:10:40.990 --> 01:10:41.200 say. 01:10:41.200 --> 01:10:42.200 Yeah, that makes sense. 01:10:42.200 --> 01:10:43.380 You never listen to your own 01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:44.200 show or rarely. 01:10:44.200 --> 01:10:45.200 No, that's not true. 01:10:45.200 --> 01:10:46.200 That's not even-- 01:10:46.200 --> 01:10:47.200 That's like you did. 01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:48.200 --not really. 01:10:48.200 --> 01:10:50.200 No, I very often do. 01:10:50.200 --> 01:10:53.160 You know, what I do is like I 01:10:53.160 --> 01:10:56.140 record it and I then add the ID 01:10:56.140 --> 01:10:59.840 -3 information, then I upload 01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:01.100 it and while it's uploading it, 01:11:01.100 --> 01:11:01.840 I listen to it. 01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:02.840 Okay. 01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:03.840 Right. 01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:04.570 And after it's uploaded, I tell 01:11:04.570 --> 01:11:04.840 them. 01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:06.780 When you did your show about 01:11:06.780 --> 01:11:09.070 the open sourcing of frontier, 01:11:09.070 --> 01:11:11.160 that was a real breakthrough 01:11:11.160 --> 01:11:13.900 for you because you weren't 01:11:13.900 --> 01:11:16.780 concerned about--I'm not going 01:11:16.780 --> 01:11:18.560 to psychoanalyze it. 01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.410 All I'm saying is that that was 01:11:20.410 --> 01:11:22.190 akin to Adam's show about his 01:11:22.190 --> 01:11:23.960 mother because all of a sudden 01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:24.000 -- 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:25.090 You weren't doing anything with 01:11:25.090 --> 01:11:25.840 recording at all. 01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:27.450 No, this was about your life 01:11:27.450 --> 01:11:28.840 and your life's work. 01:11:28.840 --> 01:11:29.840 Yeah. 01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:31.840 And it was compelling and-- 01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:32.840 Yeah. 01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:35.190 And once you do that kind of 01:11:35.190 --> 01:11:37.840 thing, it's part of your aura 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:39.840 from that point on. 01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:41.140 And that's what we have to keep 01:11:41.140 --> 01:11:42.520 reminding ourselves because 01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:43.840 that's where we're talking 01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:44.840 about this, 01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:45.990 the reality radio that's really 01:11:45.990 --> 01:11:46.840 what's coming from. 01:11:46.840 --> 01:11:48.290 We had a breakfast this morning 01:11:48.290 --> 01:11:49.710 where we were trying to come up 01:11:49.710 --> 01:11:52.840 with an elevator pitch for 01:11:52.840 --> 01:11:54.840 non-techy type people. 01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:56.840 So what is this stuff? 01:11:56.840 --> 01:11:58.840 The significance of podcasting. 01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:00.550 So what we're doing with 01:12:00.550 --> 01:12:02.270 podcasting is the radio 01:12:02.270 --> 01:12:04.500 equivalent of what reality did 01:12:04.500 --> 01:12:07.840 for television. 01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:08.840 Reality radio? 01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:09.840 Yeah. 01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:11.840 I mean, it's a lot more. 01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:12.990 But right now, that's what 01:12:12.990 --> 01:12:14.240 everyone is latching onto and 01:12:14.240 --> 01:12:14.840 is loving. 01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.840 Well, it's all bootstrapping. 01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:20.240 So whatever works to get to the 01:12:20.240 --> 01:12:23.840 next phase is probably okay. 01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:24.780 Better software is very 01:12:24.780 --> 01:12:25.840 important, actually. 01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:27.770 So what did you think about the 01:12:27.770 --> 01:12:28.840 conference? 01:12:28.840 --> 01:12:30.840 Well, nobody's asked me that. 01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:32.410 That's how we started an hour 01:12:32.410 --> 01:12:33.840 and eight minutes ago. 01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:34.840 You sure? 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:35.840 You asked me that? 01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:36.840 Well, you know what? 01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:39.030 No one's listening anymore, so 01:12:39.030 --> 01:12:39.840 answer it. 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:41.660 No, nobody's asked me point 01:12:41.660 --> 01:12:42.840 blank that way. 01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:44.130 Okay, I've certainly talked 01:12:44.130 --> 01:12:45.160 about what I think of the 01:12:45.160 --> 01:12:46.550 conference, but it's not come 01:12:46.550 --> 01:12:47.840 quite that way. 01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:49.930 I have mixed feelings about it, 01:12:49.930 --> 01:12:50.840 actually. 01:12:50.840 --> 01:12:53.720 Not the things that you might 01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:57.070 think that, because I expected 01:12:57.070 --> 01:12:59.390 that there would be some 01:12:59.390 --> 01:13:00.840 conflict. 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.320 I also expected there would be 01:13:03.320 --> 01:13:04.840 mixed quality. 01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:08.000 And I think I don't want to 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:11.840 rate one session or another, 01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:14.840 but there was mixed quality. 01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:16.150 And it's getting bigger, and 01:13:16.150 --> 01:13:17.360 the blogosphere is getting 01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:19.130 bigger, so the idealism is 01:13:19.130 --> 01:13:19.840 fading, I think. 01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:22.050 So it's not quite so obvious 01:13:22.050 --> 01:13:24.640 sometimes that there's an ideal 01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:27.070 istic answer to a question, and 01:13:27.070 --> 01:13:27.840 the mundane answer, 01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:29.450 and sometimes we end up stuck 01:13:29.450 --> 01:13:31.130 on the mundane answer, and I 01:13:31.130 --> 01:13:32.840 find that very frustrating. 01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:34.460 Because what I want is I want 01:13:34.460 --> 01:13:36.090 to be inspired by people who 01:13:36.090 --> 01:13:37.840 are thinking really big. 01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:38.840 Oh, it's not. 01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:39.840 Pretty much. 01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:41.210 Well, all the time on a day 01:13:41.210 --> 01:13:42.840 that you come to be inspired, 01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:42.840 you know? 01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:45.840 This is not every day, right? 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:47.860 I mean, for most people, at 01:13:47.860 --> 01:13:49.990 most you've been to three, you 01:13:49.990 --> 01:13:51.240 've said three of these days in 01:13:51.240 --> 01:13:51.840 your life. 01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:53.020 Steve, this is the first blog 01:13:53.020 --> 01:13:54.180 ger con you've been to, so you 01:13:54.180 --> 01:13:54.840 've had one. 01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:56.450 Well, that's not true, but I 01:13:56.450 --> 01:13:57.840 always pay virtually. 01:13:57.840 --> 01:13:58.460 Right, but I think it's 01:13:58.460 --> 01:13:58.840 different. 01:13:58.840 --> 01:14:00.160 I think it's very different 01:14:00.160 --> 01:14:01.520 whether you're there by the web 01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:01.840 cast. 01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:02.960 But I don't know, because I've 01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:03.930 never done the webcast for a 01:14:03.930 --> 01:14:04.840 blogger con myself. 01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:05.840 I haven't done it. 01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:08.350 I mean, I had a sort of maybe a 01:14:08.350 --> 01:14:11.620 2.5 experience out of three in 01:14:11.620 --> 01:14:13.840 absorbing the first one, 01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:17.080 because I was sort of vacill 01:14:17.080 --> 01:14:20.200 ated between the insanely 01:14:20.200 --> 01:14:22.990 variant audio feed, the 01:14:22.990 --> 01:14:23.840 official audio feed, 01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:25.810 and Kevin Marks with his little 01:14:25.810 --> 01:14:26.840 ISAC camera. 01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:28.200 I think we should mind not that 01:14:28.200 --> 01:14:28.840 this time. 01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:29.610 I think we actually had a web 01:14:29.610 --> 01:14:29.840 cast. 01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:30.840 Oh, was there a video? 01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:31.840 Yeah. 01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:32.840 No, not video. 01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:33.840 No, we don't do audio. 01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:34.840 There was also a video webcast. 01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:35.980 I think Kevin Marks' stuff was 01:14:35.980 --> 01:14:36.840 going out as well. 01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:37.840 Kevin wasn't there? 01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:39.840 Kevin Marks wasn't there. 01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:40.840 No, he was in the home. 01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:41.840 I think Jenny Vaska had a 01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:42.840 camera at one point. 01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:44.770 Well, see, that's the dimension 01:14:44.770 --> 01:14:46.430 of the blogger con that I never 01:14:46.430 --> 01:14:46.840 get, okay? 01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:48.840 I don't get the IRC dimension. 01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:49.700 Well, anyway, it's not about me 01:14:49.700 --> 01:14:49.840 . 01:14:49.840 --> 01:14:50.840 I was asking you. 01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:54.840 Right, and so let's see. 01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:56.740 Right, so, but you know, I don 01:14:56.740 --> 01:14:58.590 't think that's that different 01:14:58.590 --> 01:14:59.840 from the others. 01:14:59.840 --> 01:15:01.650 I mean, there were, there's 01:15:01.650 --> 01:15:03.540 always, it's not as inspiring 01:15:03.540 --> 01:15:04.840 as I would like it to be, but, 01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:08.050 you know, but then again, you 01:15:08.050 --> 01:15:10.250 know, you find your inspiration 01:15:10.250 --> 01:15:11.840 in whatever you are inspired 01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:12.840 by, right? 01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:14.960 The fact that all these people 01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:16.700 come together in itself is 01:15:16.700 --> 01:15:17.840 pretty cool. 01:15:17.840 --> 01:15:20.210 I think the format, I'm looking 01:15:20.210 --> 01:15:22.470 , going to look for sort of some 01:15:22.470 --> 01:15:24.840 new things we can try 01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:25.840 with format. 01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:26.840 I don't know what they are yet, 01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:27.930 but I don't like the 01:15:27.930 --> 01:15:28.840 microphones. 01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:30.440 Yeah, I'm going to push back on 01:15:30.440 --> 01:15:32.200 you about that because, you 01:15:32.200 --> 01:15:34.840 know, while we were doing 01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:36.840 it, and by that I mean, 01:15:36.840 --> 01:15:39.830 particularly when your session, 01:15:39.830 --> 01:15:41.840 and I was participating, we 01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:43.730 make the point, because you've 01:15:43.730 --> 01:15:45.130 already said this on the 01:15:45.130 --> 01:15:47.840 microphone that you didn't want 01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:48.840 the microphones again. 01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:49.840 No, I didn't say that, right? 01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:51.090 I wasn't totally happy with 01:15:51.090 --> 01:15:51.840 them, okay? 01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:53.520 Okay, all I'm saying is that, 01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:55.260 you know, that was, you called 01:15:55.260 --> 01:15:56.840 this, you know, kind of, it 01:15:56.840 --> 01:15:58.400 was a wood stock for the pod 01:15:58.400 --> 01:15:59.840 osphere, you know? 01:15:59.840 --> 01:16:01.840 Right, and that was the... 01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:04.240 And the way that that works, to 01:16:04.240 --> 01:16:06.410 give people in that room on an 01:16:06.410 --> 01:16:08.340 equal basis the ability 01:16:08.340 --> 01:16:10.170 to be able to put their voice 01:16:10.170 --> 01:16:12.100 out into the room and over the 01:16:12.100 --> 01:16:12.840 ... 01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:14.160 It was really more for the 01:16:14.160 --> 01:16:14.840 podcast. 01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:16.840 That's a really good thing. 01:16:16.840 --> 01:16:18.180 But then we can do a lot better 01:16:18.180 --> 01:16:18.840 than that. 01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:19.840 Absolutely. 01:16:19.840 --> 01:16:20.140 I think we ought to get 01:16:20.140 --> 01:16:20.600 together and talk about that, 01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:20.840 okay? 01:16:20.840 --> 01:16:21.840 Yeah. 01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:22.840 I'll give you an example. 01:16:22.840 --> 01:16:23.940 We've got a room here right now 01:16:23.940 --> 01:16:24.950 , and we're not waiting for 01:16:24.950 --> 01:16:25.840 somebody to come with a 01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:25.840 microphone, 01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:26.840 right? 01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:27.840 Right, there's no latency here. 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:28.840 Right, and so... 01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:29.840 Except on my headphone. 01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:30.710 I want to tell you another, I 01:16:30.710 --> 01:16:31.640 want to tell you a little story 01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:31.840 . 01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:33.250 I know we're going to go 01:16:33.250 --> 01:16:35.190 probably way, way over here, 01:16:35.190 --> 01:16:35.840 right? 01:16:35.840 --> 01:16:36.840 Yeah, it doesn't matter. 01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:38.070 But this doesn't have to fit on 01:16:38.070 --> 01:16:38.840 the CD, right? 01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:39.840 Anyway. 01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:40.840 Hot boys. 01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:41.840 Knock that off. 01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:42.840 Open up. 01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:43.840 Hot boys. 01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:44.840 I'll make you a dick. 01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:46.120 I really, really spent a lot of 01:16:46.120 --> 01:16:47.150 time with Doug Kay at this 01:16:47.150 --> 01:16:47.840 conference. 01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:49.520 I really, really got to like 01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:51.270 Doug, you know, and that was 01:16:51.270 --> 01:16:51.840 nice. 01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:53.120 So I can make, I feel like I 01:16:53.120 --> 01:16:54.470 can make a little fun of him 01:16:54.470 --> 01:16:54.840 now. 01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:57.600 But anyway, I went to a non-dis 01:16:57.600 --> 01:17:00.700 closed event at Microsoft, which 01:17:00.700 --> 01:17:02.840 you were aware of, you 01:17:02.840 --> 01:17:03.840 know, a few weeks ago. 01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:04.820 And I'm not going to say what 01:17:04.820 --> 01:17:05.950 the event was about or anything 01:17:05.950 --> 01:17:06.840 , but I want to tell you 01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:09.840 a little anecdote. 01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:11.520 One point during the event, 01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:13.340 there were 20 people in the 01:17:13.340 --> 01:17:15.240 room screaming at the Microsoft 01:17:15.240 --> 01:17:15.840 people, 01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:16.840 okay? 01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:18.240 And it freaked them out, of 01:17:18.240 --> 01:17:18.840 course. 01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:20.520 I mean, but the screaming wasn 01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:22.400 't like, "You stupid idiots." 01:17:22.400 --> 01:17:23.650 The screaming was, "This is 01:17:23.650 --> 01:17:24.710 what we want you to do, and 01:17:24.710 --> 01:17:25.960 this is why we want you to do 01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:26.120 it. 01:17:26.120 --> 01:17:27.040 I want you to do this, and I 01:17:27.040 --> 01:17:27.920 want you to do this." 01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:30.300 You could discern from all the 01:17:30.300 --> 01:17:32.360 different threads that were 01:17:32.360 --> 01:17:34.240 going on at the same time 01:17:34.240 --> 01:17:35.240 different ideas. 01:17:35.240 --> 01:17:37.110 In other words, it wasn't just 01:17:37.110 --> 01:17:39.120 that people were screaming. 01:17:39.120 --> 01:17:40.480 They were saying things. 01:17:40.480 --> 01:17:41.480 They were excited. 01:17:41.480 --> 01:17:42.590 They finally had figured it out 01:17:42.590 --> 01:17:42.760 . 01:17:42.760 --> 01:17:43.760 It was great. 01:17:43.760 --> 01:17:45.020 And so one of the guys from 01:17:45.020 --> 01:17:46.160 Microsoft gets up. 01:17:46.160 --> 01:17:47.160 This is not a blogger. 01:17:47.160 --> 01:17:48.320 None of the Microsoft people, 01:17:48.320 --> 01:17:49.570 except for Skilville, were blog 01:17:49.570 --> 01:17:50.200 gers, okay? 01:17:50.200 --> 01:17:51.710 So that means that there were 01:17:51.710 --> 01:17:53.650 30 Microsoft people in the room 01:17:53.650 --> 01:17:53.880 . 01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:54.920 Only Skilville was a blogger, 01:17:54.920 --> 01:17:56.080 and he pretty much kept quiet. 01:17:56.080 --> 01:17:57.400 He said, "No, no, no. 01:17:57.400 --> 01:17:58.880 Everybody talked one at a time 01:17:58.880 --> 01:17:59.120 ." 01:17:59.120 --> 01:18:01.110 And I screamed, and I said, "We 01:18:01.110 --> 01:18:02.000 're bloggers. 01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:04.360 We're just, this is the way it 01:18:04.360 --> 01:18:05.160 works. 01:18:05.160 --> 01:18:07.400 We're going to scream, and you 01:18:07.400 --> 01:18:09.390 've got to fucking listen to 01:18:09.390 --> 01:18:11.120 what we're saying." 01:18:11.120 --> 01:18:13.630 Because it had been so polite 01:18:13.630 --> 01:18:15.750 up to that point, and they just 01:18:15.750 --> 01:18:16.880 simply weren't hearing what 01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:18.080 we were saying. 01:18:18.080 --> 01:18:20.850 So at that point, at least we 01:18:20.850 --> 01:18:24.200 could hear what we were saying. 01:18:24.200 --> 01:18:25.740 And then it was like a real, I 01:18:25.740 --> 01:18:27.340 was telling Adam before about 01:18:27.340 --> 01:18:28.840 Stacey Kramer, about how 01:18:28.840 --> 01:18:30.380 she had a real moment when she 01:18:30.380 --> 01:18:32.140 totally objected to something I 01:18:32.140 --> 01:18:33.600 said, and she said it in a 01:18:33.600 --> 01:18:35.350 very sort of opinionated way, 01:18:35.350 --> 01:18:37.230 and she immediately said, "Oh, 01:18:37.230 --> 01:18:38.200 I'm sorry." 01:18:38.200 --> 01:18:39.200 And I said, "No, no, no. 01:18:39.200 --> 01:18:40.200 There's no problem. 01:18:40.200 --> 01:18:41.320 A little humanity came out. 01:18:41.320 --> 01:18:42.320 We like that. 01:18:42.320 --> 01:18:43.320 That's good." 01:18:43.320 --> 01:18:44.070 You notice what you're saying 01:18:44.070 --> 01:18:44.920 about the emotions, right? 01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:46.440 I mean, people are being real 01:18:46.440 --> 01:18:48.040 when the emotions come out. 01:18:48.040 --> 01:18:50.780 So to me, it's also some good 01:18:50.780 --> 01:18:52.860 ideas that don't come out under 01:18:52.860 --> 01:18:54.480 controlled service. 01:18:54.480 --> 01:18:56.200 That's what I'm saying, and 01:18:56.200 --> 01:18:57.870 that the blogosphere is not 01:18:57.870 --> 01:18:59.180 about waiting for the 01:18:59.180 --> 01:19:00.120 microphone to 01:19:00.120 --> 01:19:01.120 show up. 01:19:01.120 --> 01:19:02.530 It's almost the opposite of 01:19:02.530 --> 01:19:03.000 that. 01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:05.480 It's this cacophony, this mess 01:19:05.480 --> 01:19:07.840 of ideas just thrown out, and 01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:10.120 God, I hope somebody can hear 01:19:10.120 --> 01:19:11.120 this. 01:19:11.120 --> 01:19:12.260 There's a lot of that to blog 01:19:12.260 --> 01:19:13.040 ging, right? 01:19:13.040 --> 01:19:14.630 And when you pretend that we're 01:19:14.630 --> 01:19:16.090 so orderly and we can wait for 01:19:16.090 --> 01:19:17.440 the microphone, then you 01:19:17.440 --> 01:19:19.060 start getting the speech effect 01:19:19.060 --> 01:19:19.280 . 01:19:19.280 --> 01:19:20.620 And I heard that a lot of times 01:19:20.620 --> 01:19:20.840 . 01:19:20.840 --> 01:19:22.050 It's like, "Well, wait, I've 01:19:22.050 --> 01:19:23.160 got five things to say." 01:19:23.160 --> 01:19:24.520 But if you were like that, you 01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:25.840 wouldn't have five things to 01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:27.240 say because you wouldn't have 01:19:27.240 --> 01:19:28.240 a moment to prepare. 01:19:28.240 --> 01:19:29.940 But isn't that just a technical 01:19:29.940 --> 01:19:30.640 problem? 01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:31.270 That's what I'm trying to 01:19:31.270 --> 01:19:31.640 figure out. 01:19:31.640 --> 01:19:32.790 That's only a technical problem 01:19:32.790 --> 01:19:32.920 . 01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:34.350 Well, and it may be that the 01:19:34.350 --> 01:19:35.880 next barricade that we do-- 01:19:35.880 --> 01:19:37.120 Everyone comes mic'd. 01:19:37.120 --> 01:19:38.360 --may be, but I have a 01:19:38.360 --> 01:19:39.920 different idea, okay? 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:42.120 Which is that we vary the 01:19:42.120 --> 01:19:44.950 format radically, and we don't 01:19:44.950 --> 01:19:47.400 lessen the commitment to this 01:19:47.400 --> 01:19:48.400 format. 01:19:48.400 --> 01:19:50.120 We just do one interim that is 01:19:50.120 --> 01:19:52.140 a completely different format, 01:19:52.140 --> 01:19:52.720 okay? 01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:54.630 And maybe it's podcast or blog 01:19:54.630 --> 01:19:56.760 athon or something like that. 01:19:56.760 --> 01:19:58.350 And what you do is you rent a 01:19:58.350 --> 01:20:00.250 small room, a conference room 01:20:00.250 --> 01:20:01.680 somewhere, okay? 01:20:01.680 --> 01:20:03.430 A small enough room so that mic 01:20:03.430 --> 01:20:05.040 'ing it up isn't a problem, 01:20:05.040 --> 01:20:05.680 right? 01:20:05.680 --> 01:20:07.860 And the acoustics are good, and 01:20:07.860 --> 01:20:09.470 you don't try to do even a 01:20:09.470 --> 01:20:11.000 whole day, okay? 01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:12.310 You try to do something like 01:20:12.310 --> 01:20:13.840 what we're doing right now, and 01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:15.110 you try to make something 01:20:15.110 --> 01:20:16.040 coherent, 01:20:16.040 --> 01:20:18.970 come out of 10 people in a room 01:20:18.970 --> 01:20:21.720 focused on a specific thing. 01:20:21.720 --> 01:20:23.960 It doesn't matter what it is. 01:20:23.960 --> 01:20:25.270 A specific issue, a problem 01:20:25.270 --> 01:20:26.390 that needs to be solved, 01:20:26.390 --> 01:20:27.520 something like that. 01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:29.010 And you try to come out of it 01:20:29.010 --> 01:20:30.360 with the kind of focus that the 01:20:30.360 --> 01:20:31.800 blogosphere is capable of 01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:34.470 doing, and try to see if you 01:20:34.470 --> 01:20:37.030 can't make that happen in a 01:20:37.030 --> 01:20:39.440 real-time audio way. 01:20:39.440 --> 01:20:40.730 And I think that if you can, 01:20:40.730 --> 01:20:42.160 what comes out the other end is 01:20:42.160 --> 01:20:43.880 some incredible programming. 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:46.070 I mean, just, you'll watch the 01:20:46.070 --> 01:20:47.600 problem be solved. 01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:49.430 And that's, I think in solving 01:20:49.430 --> 01:20:50.890 that problem, you end up 01:20:50.890 --> 01:20:52.880 providing the template for what 01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:54.170 John Stewart was looking for 01:20:54.170 --> 01:20:55.240 from CNN Crossfire. 01:20:55.240 --> 01:20:57.100 You know, it's kind of, you 01:20:57.100 --> 01:20:59.240 know, it's jazz is what it is. 01:20:59.240 --> 01:21:01.290 It's, you know, it's people, 01:21:01.290 --> 01:21:02.120 you know. 01:21:02.120 --> 01:21:03.120 It's improv. 01:21:03.120 --> 01:21:05.760 There's a guy who used to, he 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:08.680 was the producer of Al Green. 01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:11.770 I forgot his name for a second, 01:21:11.770 --> 01:21:14.280 but he has this recording 01:21:14.280 --> 01:21:18.000 technique where he folds back 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:20.950 all the monitor feed into the 01:21:20.950 --> 01:21:23.920 drum kit and into the room. 01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:26.370 So you basically sit in a 01:21:26.370 --> 01:21:27.520 circle. 01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:28.520 What's the drum kit? 01:21:28.520 --> 01:21:29.520 The drums? 01:21:29.520 --> 01:21:30.520 The drums. 01:21:30.520 --> 01:21:31.520 He takes the monitor feed. 01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:33.040 He takes, you know, the speaker 01:21:33.040 --> 01:21:34.000 inside the drums. 01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:35.520 He puts the speakers inside. 01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:38.160 He just, he feeds back into. 01:21:38.160 --> 01:21:39.640 Really Mitchell? 01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:40.640 Exactly. 01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:43.640 And, thank you Google. 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:44.640 No, fuck you. 01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:45.640 I knew that. 01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:49.930 Hey, we're slowly finding where 01:21:49.930 --> 01:21:54.640 the knowledge comes from. 01:21:54.640 --> 01:21:56.640 The power of pure intellect. 01:21:56.640 --> 01:21:58.130 I mean, you know, at the 01:21:58.130 --> 01:22:00.190 technical level, you know, the 01:22:00.190 --> 01:22:02.240 thing that really works is that 01:22:02.240 --> 01:22:04.620 the overtones coming from 01:22:04.620 --> 01:22:07.230 acoustic guitars and vocals 01:22:07.230 --> 01:22:10.040 being pushed into the cymbals 01:22:10.040 --> 01:22:11.500 create overtones which are unm 01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:12.040 atched. 01:22:12.040 --> 01:22:13.650 You know, it's a sound that is 01:22:13.650 --> 01:22:15.460 instantly recognizable and it's 01:22:15.460 --> 01:22:17.410 one of the reasons that the, 01:22:17.410 --> 01:22:17.880 you 01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:20.500 know, the backbeat in, you know 01:22:20.500 --> 01:22:23.110 , Willie Mitchell's and Al, the 01:22:23.110 --> 01:22:24.900 guy who died who was the 01:22:24.900 --> 01:22:25.680 drummer 01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:28.440 in those days. 01:22:28.440 --> 01:22:30.470 It's just, it has this kind of 01:22:30.470 --> 01:22:32.430 feel that you cannot get from 01:22:32.430 --> 01:22:34.360 overdubbing from, you know, 01:22:34.360 --> 01:22:36.430 essentially having to record, 01:22:36.430 --> 01:22:38.310 you know, recording once, one 01:22:38.310 --> 01:22:40.120 at a time and overdubbing. 01:22:40.120 --> 01:22:41.120 Oh, okay. 01:22:41.120 --> 01:22:43.370 In other words, you don't hear 01:22:43.370 --> 01:22:45.030 what the other, you're not 01:22:45.030 --> 01:22:47.000 listening to what the other 01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:47.240 person 01:22:47.240 --> 01:22:49.150 is playing and interacting with 01:22:49.150 --> 01:22:50.960 that person and vice versa. 01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:52.760 And that kind of thing. 01:22:52.760 --> 01:22:54.760 That would be Kenny Butchery? 01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:55.760 No. 01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:57.760 Okay, now you're kind of. 01:22:57.760 --> 01:22:58.760 Al Jackson? 01:22:58.760 --> 01:22:59.760 Al Jackson. 01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:04.350 He was the, the drummer in the 01:23:04.350 --> 01:23:05.760 original. 01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:07.760 Booker T in the MGs. 01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:08.760 Very good. 01:23:08.760 --> 01:23:10.650 So what I'm saying is, is that, 01:23:10.650 --> 01:23:12.400 you know, the only pushback I 01:23:12.400 --> 01:23:13.680 'll give you is the ten 01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:15.870 people, you know, who are the 01:23:15.870 --> 01:23:16.840 ten people? 01:23:16.840 --> 01:23:18.400 There's going to be, there's 01:23:18.400 --> 01:23:20.760 not going to be 390 people. 01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:22.230 No, no, you would do it 01:23:22.230 --> 01:23:24.050 deliberately so it wasn't an 01:23:24.050 --> 01:23:24.800 analyst. 01:23:24.800 --> 01:23:25.560 That wouldn't be the point at 01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:25.800 all. 01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:27.760 And there are ways, by the way, 01:23:27.760 --> 01:23:29.770 we, you know, we found ways to, 01:23:29.770 --> 01:23:31.880 to dampen the A-list, right? 01:23:31.880 --> 01:23:33.740 That was the dinners last night 01:23:33.740 --> 01:23:35.590 , the choice of the discussion 01:23:35.590 --> 01:23:36.400 leaders. 01:23:36.400 --> 01:23:37.600 They weren't chosen for the 01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:38.120 celebrity. 01:23:38.120 --> 01:23:39.990 I think that not one blogger 01:23:39.990 --> 01:23:41.920 knew who Craig Klein was. 01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:43.120 But Craig is an incredible 01:23:43.120 --> 01:23:44.200 discussion leader. 01:23:44.200 --> 01:23:45.880 He has so much experience with 01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:46.280 it. 01:23:46.280 --> 01:23:47.280 And he has. 01:23:47.280 --> 01:23:48.280 Which one was this? 01:23:48.280 --> 01:23:49.060 This was the mobile blogging 01:23:49.060 --> 01:23:49.280 one. 01:23:49.280 --> 01:23:50.750 But Craig, the thing about 01:23:50.750 --> 01:23:52.500 Craig is, is that, you know, a 01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:54.530 good discussion leader might 01:23:54.530 --> 01:23:54.720 very 01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:55.910 well be somebody with a 01:23:55.910 --> 01:23:57.620 personality that you can hardly 01:23:57.620 --> 01:23:58.960 even find, you know? 01:23:58.960 --> 01:24:00.200 The point is, is that he's 01:24:00.200 --> 01:24:01.760 supposed to make the discussion 01:24:01.760 --> 01:24:02.760 happen, right? 01:24:02.760 --> 01:24:04.040 Not impress you with his 01:24:04.040 --> 01:24:05.440 personality, right? 01:24:05.440 --> 01:24:06.610 So Craig, you know, we tried 01:24:06.610 --> 01:24:07.970 different things, you know, was 01:24:07.970 --> 01:24:09.360 less a good discussion leader? 01:24:09.360 --> 01:24:10.360 I think he was. 01:24:10.360 --> 01:24:12.870 And I don't want to, you know, 01:24:12.870 --> 01:24:15.240 let's go straight there. 01:24:15.240 --> 01:24:16.530 That one, everybody seems to 01:24:16.530 --> 01:24:17.970 have thought, I mean, there was 01:24:17.970 --> 01:24:19.080 a controversy there. 01:24:19.080 --> 01:24:20.080 I didn't catch it. 01:24:20.080 --> 01:24:21.080 I wasn't there for that. 01:24:21.080 --> 01:24:23.080 Is it a con session? 01:24:23.080 --> 01:24:24.080 Yeah. 01:24:24.080 --> 01:24:25.330 Had I been there, I would have 01:24:25.330 --> 01:24:26.530 totally agreed with what the 01:24:26.530 --> 01:24:27.080 guy said. 01:24:27.080 --> 01:24:29.190 I wouldn't characterize it as a 01:24:29.190 --> 01:24:30.360 controversy. 01:24:30.360 --> 01:24:31.920 It was a fairly mellow session. 01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:32.920 That's the problem. 01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:33.870 It shouldn't have been a mellow 01:24:33.870 --> 01:24:34.280 session. 01:24:34.280 --> 01:24:35.260 It should have been one of 01:24:35.260 --> 01:24:35.640 these. 01:24:35.640 --> 01:24:37.090 People were exhausted from, you 01:24:37.090 --> 01:24:37.800 know, this. 01:24:37.800 --> 01:24:39.300 But we did the session after 01:24:39.300 --> 01:24:41.320 that, the making money session. 01:24:41.320 --> 01:24:42.890 And with a little bit of 01:24:42.890 --> 01:24:44.950 stimulus, we were able to get 01:24:44.950 --> 01:24:47.150 that session to really rock, 01:24:47.150 --> 01:24:47.920 okay? 01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:48.950 To the point where it wasn't 01:24:48.950 --> 01:24:50.170 just like, let's not talk about 01:24:50.170 --> 01:24:51.240 the nickels and thimes. 01:24:51.240 --> 01:24:52.130 They're on this and making 01:24:52.130 --> 01:24:52.800 money, right? 01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:54.080 Well, when we're talking about 01:24:54.080 --> 01:24:55.220 making money, why should we 01:24:55.220 --> 01:24:56.520 talk about nickels and thimes 01:24:56.520 --> 01:24:57.530 when there are millions of 01:24:57.530 --> 01:24:58.480 dollars on the table? 01:24:58.480 --> 01:24:59.940 You know, picking up nickels 01:24:59.940 --> 01:25:01.380 and thimes on the floor is not 01:25:01.380 --> 01:25:02.680 really the, you know. 01:25:02.680 --> 01:25:04.190 But yeah, a lot of people like 01:25:04.190 --> 01:25:05.640 to talk about the nickels and 01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:07.080 thimes and think big, you 01:25:07.080 --> 01:25:08.080 know. 01:25:08.080 --> 01:25:08.960 And I think it's not people to 01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:09.440 think big. 01:25:09.440 --> 01:25:10.440 I know it's not. 01:25:10.440 --> 01:25:11.440 Not easy. 01:25:11.440 --> 01:25:12.440 I know. 01:25:12.440 --> 01:25:13.440 And that's the thing. 01:25:13.440 --> 01:25:14.440 You saw my friend Ron Bloom. 01:25:14.440 --> 01:25:15.440 That's really struggling. 01:25:15.440 --> 01:25:16.440 He's a big ass thinker. 01:25:16.440 --> 01:25:17.440 Old school. 01:25:17.440 --> 01:25:18.440 But right. 01:25:18.440 --> 01:25:20.020 And that's the point of 01:25:20.020 --> 01:25:22.110 bringing people together and 01:25:22.110 --> 01:25:24.710 into one building for 12 hours 01:25:24.710 --> 01:25:26.080 and saying 01:25:26.080 --> 01:25:27.730 this one day, we're going to 01:25:27.730 --> 01:25:29.440 stretch those minds and we're 01:25:29.440 --> 01:25:31.040 going to see if we can't get 01:25:31.040 --> 01:25:32.040 fired. 01:25:32.040 --> 01:25:33.160 You know, there are some people 01:25:33.160 --> 01:25:34.210 , by the way, who can think big 01:25:34.210 --> 01:25:35.480 who came like Keith Teer, 01:25:35.480 --> 01:25:36.480 okay? 01:25:36.480 --> 01:25:37.960 Keith is a big thinker. 01:25:37.960 --> 01:25:38.970 He's got a big mind, but he 01:25:38.970 --> 01:25:40.110 doesn't know that much about 01:25:40.110 --> 01:25:40.600 blogs. 01:25:40.600 --> 01:25:41.600 So he came. 01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:42.760 He got his one day education on 01:25:42.760 --> 01:25:43.200 blogs. 01:25:43.200 --> 01:25:44.420 And all of a sudden, his brain 01:25:44.420 --> 01:25:45.600 is exploding with ideas. 01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:47.680 But it takes people. 01:25:47.680 --> 01:25:49.240 But this is when you ramp up. 01:25:49.240 --> 01:25:50.240 Even if you're a newbie. 01:25:50.240 --> 01:25:50.810 You got to make him doesn't 01:25:50.810 --> 01:25:51.240 need that much. 01:25:51.240 --> 01:25:52.240 No, no, no. 01:25:52.240 --> 01:25:52.950 But there are a lot of people 01:25:52.950 --> 01:25:53.240 there. 01:25:53.240 --> 01:25:54.240 Absolutely. 01:25:54.240 --> 01:25:55.540 So what you do is you open the 01:25:55.540 --> 01:25:57.080 door for anybody of any type. 01:25:57.080 --> 01:25:58.080 Be surprised. 01:25:58.080 --> 01:25:59.320 Nobody is an architecture of 01:25:59.320 --> 01:26:00.080 human nature. 01:26:00.080 --> 01:26:01.500 I mean, or an architect of 01:26:01.500 --> 01:26:02.440 human nature. 01:26:02.440 --> 01:26:03.590 You can't, you don't live long 01:26:03.590 --> 01:26:04.750 enough to learn how to do that, 01:26:04.750 --> 01:26:05.200 right? 01:26:05.200 --> 01:26:06.800 If we lived 500 years, you 01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:08.180 might learn how to architect 01:26:08.180 --> 01:26:09.520 human nature and use it in a 01:26:09.520 --> 01:26:09.600 more 01:26:09.600 --> 01:26:10.600 effective way. 01:26:10.600 --> 01:26:11.720 None of us do so we don't learn 01:26:11.720 --> 01:26:12.400 how to do that. 01:26:12.400 --> 01:26:13.800 What you do is you open the 01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:15.360 door up and you try to throw 01:26:15.360 --> 01:26:17.120 some big ideas into the room. 01:26:17.120 --> 01:26:18.580 And then you sort of let 01:26:18.580 --> 01:26:20.000 whatever happens. 01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:21.070 So you may get one person who 01:26:21.070 --> 01:26:22.020 knows a lot about the blog 01:26:22.020 --> 01:26:23.320 osphere but never thought about 01:26:23.320 --> 01:26:24.640 it this way. 01:26:24.640 --> 01:26:25.790 Or another person who knows 01:26:25.790 --> 01:26:27.090 nothing about the blogosphere 01:26:27.090 --> 01:26:28.340 but is always thinking expans 01:26:28.340 --> 01:26:28.760 ively. 01:26:28.760 --> 01:26:30.050 So I thought, what we would do 01:26:30.050 --> 01:26:31.190 that session, I thought we 01:26:31.190 --> 01:26:32.280 would put doc surals. 01:26:32.280 --> 01:26:34.760 Now doc totally gets it. 01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:37.750 I think doc is sometimes really 01:26:37.750 --> 01:26:40.500 frustrated that he can't get 01:26:40.500 --> 01:26:43.000 other people to get it. 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:44.820 So the Clutrain Manifesto to me 01:26:44.820 --> 01:26:46.500 , when I first even heard the 01:26:46.500 --> 01:26:48.200 idea and read the manifesto 01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:49.800 itself, you know, we the people 01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:51.600 of the earth, that thing, okay. 01:26:51.600 --> 01:26:53.520 I mean, I'm like the third sign 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:55.040 atory on the damn thing. 01:26:55.040 --> 01:26:56.390 And I said basically, guys, you 01:26:56.390 --> 01:26:57.540 gotta know, I believe in this 01:26:57.540 --> 01:26:58.320 shit, right? 01:26:58.320 --> 01:26:59.880 I mean, to me it was a total 01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:01.870 fucking no brainer, you know, 01:27:01.870 --> 01:27:03.240 that you want to turn the 01:27:03.240 --> 01:27:03.800 funnel 01:27:03.800 --> 01:27:04.800 upside down. 01:27:04.800 --> 01:27:06.370 You want to let the stuff, the 01:27:06.370 --> 01:27:07.820 good stuff pour in any which 01:27:07.820 --> 01:27:09.240 way it wants to come, you 01:27:09.240 --> 01:27:10.380 know, and you don't worry about 01:27:10.380 --> 01:27:10.640 it. 01:27:10.640 --> 01:27:12.210 You don't think in terms of a 01:27:12.210 --> 01:27:13.650 top of the mountain and great 01:27:13.650 --> 01:27:15.360 ideas flowing down and out, 01:27:15.360 --> 01:27:15.400 because 01:27:15.400 --> 01:27:17.440 that's the old model, right? 01:27:17.440 --> 01:27:18.590 The new model is I don't care 01:27:18.590 --> 01:27:19.880 where the ideas come from. 01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:21.130 They can come from anywhere, 01:27:21.130 --> 01:27:21.640 you know? 01:27:21.640 --> 01:27:22.640 And that's why be picky. 01:27:22.640 --> 01:27:23.990 If you could ask your question 01:27:23.990 --> 01:27:24.480 there. 01:27:24.480 --> 01:27:27.780 Have you noticed in your life, 01:27:27.780 --> 01:27:30.800 both you're older than I am, 01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:33.480 that as you get older and 01:27:33.480 --> 01:27:36.840 wiser as to what the world is. 01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:39.240 I find that almost every 01:27:39.240 --> 01:27:42.710 process, almost everything that 01:27:42.710 --> 01:27:45.640 I held to believe to be true, 01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:45.920 it all 01:27:45.920 --> 01:27:48.720 has to be turned upside down. 01:27:48.720 --> 01:27:49.720 What? 01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:51.880 Wait, wait, wait. 01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:52.880 Okay. 01:27:52.880 --> 01:27:54.780 Everything you believe to be 01:27:54.780 --> 01:27:55.280 true. 01:27:55.280 --> 01:27:56.340 Any process, I look at it and 01:27:56.340 --> 01:27:57.350 say if I did, if I did turn it 01:27:57.350 --> 01:27:57.840 around. 01:27:57.840 --> 01:27:59.630 Everything you believe to be 01:27:59.630 --> 01:28:01.320 true, Adam, was true. 01:28:01.320 --> 01:28:02.320 Okay? 01:28:02.320 --> 01:28:03.430 You may have had some small 01:28:03.430 --> 01:28:04.870 things that were misconceptions 01:28:04.870 --> 01:28:06.120 that made me go like, I'm the 01:28:06.120 --> 01:28:07.840 center of the universe, okay? 01:28:07.840 --> 01:28:08.730 Life teaches you that you're 01:28:08.730 --> 01:28:09.650 not the center of the universe 01:28:09.650 --> 01:28:10.560 and you aren't going to live 01:28:10.560 --> 01:28:12.000 forever, okay? 01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:14.440 But you, everything you 01:28:14.440 --> 01:28:16.560 believed was true. 01:28:16.560 --> 01:28:18.440 It all was true. 01:28:18.440 --> 01:28:19.440 You don't lose that. 01:28:19.440 --> 01:28:21.010 That's not what life teaches 01:28:21.010 --> 01:28:21.440 you. 01:28:21.440 --> 01:28:22.540 Life doesn't teach you you were 01:28:22.540 --> 01:28:22.920 wrong. 01:28:22.920 --> 01:28:24.160 I think you misunderstand what 01:28:24.160 --> 01:28:24.920 you're saying. 01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:25.920 Okay, all right, fair enough. 01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:27.600 I'm going to the cone concept. 01:28:27.600 --> 01:28:28.600 Okay. 01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:30.690 Cone concept is, you know, I've 01:28:30.690 --> 01:28:32.420 always looked at it exactly 01:28:32.420 --> 01:28:33.120 right. 01:28:33.120 --> 01:28:34.330 You know, it comes from the top 01:28:34.330 --> 01:28:35.120 and it goes down. 01:28:35.120 --> 01:28:36.720 That's the way most things seem 01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:38.200 to work, but they don't. 01:28:38.200 --> 01:28:39.310 It seems like if you turn it 01:28:39.310 --> 01:28:40.580 around, it works much, much 01:28:40.580 --> 01:28:41.120 better. 01:28:41.120 --> 01:28:42.120 Right. 01:28:42.120 --> 01:28:43.350 But I found that in technical 01:28:43.350 --> 01:28:44.750 processes, it's as well as like 01:28:44.750 --> 01:28:45.920 users and developers. 01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:47.750 You have to reverse the process 01:28:47.750 --> 01:28:48.000 . 01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:50.000 Tell you what? 01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:51.200 Yes, you do. 01:28:51.200 --> 01:28:52.380 But the thing is you always 01:28:52.380 --> 01:28:53.700 have to reverse it whichever 01:28:53.700 --> 01:28:54.920 way you have it turned. 01:28:54.920 --> 01:28:56.570 The creative mind can conceive 01:28:56.570 --> 01:28:57.770 of everything working 01:28:57.770 --> 01:28:58.720 differently. 01:28:58.720 --> 01:28:59.720 And that's where... 01:28:59.720 --> 01:29:00.720 Okay, maybe that's what... 01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:02.830 And it's like, right, and it's 01:29:02.830 --> 01:29:04.720 like, so if it's structured 01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:06.640 this way, you may find some 01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:07.850 new territory if you flip it 01:29:07.850 --> 01:29:09.070 around and structure it the 01:29:09.070 --> 01:29:09.720 other way. 01:29:09.720 --> 01:29:11.080 So you are creative thinker 01:29:11.080 --> 01:29:11.520 Adam. 01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:13.520 That's my creativity growing. 01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:16.360 Does that grow older? 01:29:16.360 --> 01:29:18.090 I don't know if your creativity 01:29:18.090 --> 01:29:19.640 grows as you grow older. 01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:22.040 I don't know about that. 01:29:22.040 --> 01:29:23.440 I created some, personally 01:29:23.440 --> 01:29:24.890 created some really good shit 01:29:24.890 --> 01:29:26.280 when I was really young. 01:29:26.280 --> 01:29:28.040 I think that in some ways my... 01:29:28.040 --> 01:29:31.170 But a classic statement is that 01:29:31.170 --> 01:29:33.960 you have this burst of horse 01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:36.960 and the walsy and creativity 01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:38.450 when you're young and then you 01:29:38.450 --> 01:29:39.960 sort of settle into... 01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:40.960 That's one way of... 01:29:40.960 --> 01:29:41.960 I'm not sure that that's... 01:29:41.960 --> 01:29:43.710 You have a different motive 01:29:43.710 --> 01:29:45.280 when you're younger. 01:29:45.280 --> 01:29:47.710 Young people, young overachie 01:29:47.710 --> 01:29:50.230 ver type people, when they're in 01:29:50.230 --> 01:29:53.040 their 20, especially males, 01:29:53.040 --> 01:29:55.360 have to prove their... 01:29:55.360 --> 01:29:56.360 Right. 01:29:56.360 --> 01:29:58.250 It's like you have to win 01:29:58.250 --> 01:29:59.400 something. 01:29:59.400 --> 01:30:01.780 You have to fight a war and you 01:30:01.780 --> 01:30:03.000 have to win. 01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:05.220 And I had that, I felt really 01:30:05.220 --> 01:30:07.550 strongly, and I see it in a lot 01:30:07.550 --> 01:30:08.880 of other men. 01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:10.320 I don't see it so much in women 01:30:10.320 --> 01:30:10.520 . 01:30:10.520 --> 01:30:12.130 I don't understand women to 01:30:12.130 --> 01:30:14.020 that extent that what's driving 01:30:14.020 --> 01:30:15.680 them at that age, it's really 01:30:15.680 --> 01:30:16.680 hard to know. 01:30:16.680 --> 01:30:17.680 You can only go by... 01:30:17.680 --> 01:30:19.330 You need to listen to the super 01:30:19.330 --> 01:30:20.840 smart or sex radio show. 01:30:20.840 --> 01:30:21.840 Okay. 01:30:21.840 --> 01:30:22.420 That will teach you a lot about 01:30:22.420 --> 01:30:22.840 what drives you. 01:30:22.840 --> 01:30:24.280 I'm always fascinated with 01:30:24.280 --> 01:30:24.840 women. 01:30:24.840 --> 01:30:26.120 That's a podcast you've got to 01:30:26.120 --> 01:30:26.720 check out. 01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:27.720 Okay. 01:30:27.720 --> 01:30:28.630 I mean, that's the thing about 01:30:28.630 --> 01:30:29.510 us men, we don't understand 01:30:29.510 --> 01:30:30.360 them, but we're endlessly 01:30:30.360 --> 01:30:30.840 fascinated. 01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:31.840 I learned a lot. 01:30:31.840 --> 01:30:32.840 Right. 01:30:32.840 --> 01:30:33.840 Good. 01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:34.840 Let's say you know. 01:30:34.840 --> 01:30:36.320 I learned a hell of a lot. 01:30:36.320 --> 01:30:37.320 All right. 01:30:37.320 --> 01:30:38.540 Well, they're willing to teach 01:30:38.540 --> 01:30:39.360 us, that's good. 01:30:39.360 --> 01:30:40.360 That's good. 01:30:40.360 --> 01:30:41.360 We like that. 01:30:41.360 --> 01:30:42.360 Precisely. 01:30:42.360 --> 01:30:43.360 It's just different. 01:30:43.360 --> 01:30:46.530 I think that as you grow older, 01:30:46.530 --> 01:30:47.960 you deepen. 01:30:47.960 --> 01:30:50.000 And this is cliched, right? 01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:52.160 You deepen and you also have a 01:30:52.160 --> 01:30:54.320 better sense of humor and you 01:30:54.320 --> 01:30:56.160 're not so worried about 01:30:56.160 --> 01:30:57.840 things that you were worried 01:30:57.840 --> 01:30:59.680 about when you were younger. 01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:00.680 You relax. 01:31:00.680 --> 01:31:01.680 It's a paradoxical. 01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:03.230 As you get older, you're 01:31:03.230 --> 01:31:05.520 getting closer to death, right? 01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:06.440 It would seem like you'd be 01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:07.370 more of a rush than you were 01:31:07.370 --> 01:31:08.520 when you were younger, but it 01:31:08.520 --> 01:31:09.520 doesn't work that way. 01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:11.570 No, there's this, when you 01:31:11.570 --> 01:31:13.710 reach a certain age, there's 01:31:13.710 --> 01:31:14.920 this... 01:31:14.920 --> 01:31:17.350 If you reach a certain age, 01:31:17.350 --> 01:31:19.960 there's this kind of glow. 01:31:19.960 --> 01:31:22.150 A calm that comes from the fact 01:31:22.150 --> 01:31:25.320 that, "Holy shit, I actually... 01:31:25.320 --> 01:31:27.320 I'm not so hormone-driven. 01:31:27.320 --> 01:31:30.020 I'm not so driven by what Dave 01:31:30.020 --> 01:31:32.720 was just talking about." 01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:34.540 Or there's a calm and a 01:31:34.540 --> 01:31:36.860 confidence that comes from 01:31:36.860 --> 01:31:38.240 experience. 01:31:38.240 --> 01:31:39.150 At a younger age, I never could 01:31:39.150 --> 01:31:40.240 have handled that last session. 01:31:40.240 --> 01:31:41.620 That allows you to be able to 01:31:41.620 --> 01:31:43.060 appreciate life a little bit 01:31:43.060 --> 01:31:43.640 better. 01:31:43.640 --> 01:31:45.400 At a younger age, I never ever 01:31:45.400 --> 01:31:47.090 in a million years could have 01:31:47.090 --> 01:31:49.080 handled that last session. 01:31:49.080 --> 01:31:50.520 There's that guy standing up 01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:51.720 there and he's throwing 01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:53.120 something at my... 01:31:53.120 --> 01:31:54.800 He wants something from me that 01:31:54.800 --> 01:31:55.720 isn't... 01:31:55.720 --> 01:31:57.170 He's not being direct about 01:31:57.170 --> 01:31:58.280 what he's saying. 01:31:58.280 --> 01:32:01.640 My imagination would run wild. 01:32:01.640 --> 01:32:03.420 This is something I noticed 01:32:03.420 --> 01:32:05.370 when I was in my late 30s, 01:32:05.370 --> 01:32:06.600 early 40s. 01:32:06.600 --> 01:32:08.260 The thought that would form in 01:32:08.260 --> 01:32:09.980 my head was, "Oh, he's acting 01:32:09.980 --> 01:32:11.400 just like my father." 01:32:11.400 --> 01:32:13.840 Yeah, it would happen. 01:32:13.840 --> 01:32:15.270 Literally, that thought would 01:32:15.270 --> 01:32:16.120 form in my head. 01:32:16.120 --> 01:32:17.750 And then, the next thought is, 01:32:17.750 --> 01:32:19.240 "I respond to my father." 01:32:19.240 --> 01:32:21.300 That's not necessarily always 01:32:21.300 --> 01:32:21.800 fun. 01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:24.160 Oh, God, no. 01:32:24.160 --> 01:32:25.810 It's terribly not fun because 01:32:25.810 --> 01:32:27.230 it's not my father and he doesn 01:32:27.230 --> 01:32:28.160 't know what he's supposed 01:32:28.160 --> 01:32:29.160 to do next. 01:32:29.160 --> 01:32:31.280 He probably doesn't do it. 01:32:31.280 --> 01:32:34.180 He's probably talking to his 01:32:34.180 --> 01:32:37.040 father and he's doing it. 01:32:37.040 --> 01:32:38.620 What you end up with is two 01:32:38.620 --> 01:32:40.200 dead people, basically. 01:32:40.200 --> 01:32:42.200 At that moment... 01:32:42.200 --> 01:32:44.200 Here, I hear you. 01:32:44.200 --> 01:32:46.480 I can't wait to hear that part 01:32:46.480 --> 01:32:47.200 of it. 01:32:47.200 --> 01:32:48.200 It's a dead people part. 01:32:48.200 --> 01:32:50.200 Two dead people part. 01:32:50.200 --> 01:32:52.350 So, what you do in a situation 01:32:52.350 --> 01:32:54.530 like that is you take five deep 01:32:54.530 --> 01:32:56.600 breaths while the guy's 01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:58.100 talking and then you check out 01:32:58.100 --> 01:32:59.600 the room and you see, "Okay, 01:32:59.600 --> 01:33:00.680 this is where I am. 01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:01.680 There's a window there. 01:33:01.680 --> 01:33:02.680 There are 30... 01:33:02.680 --> 01:33:04.490 There are actually 200 people 01:33:04.490 --> 01:33:06.160 sitting all around this place. 01:33:06.160 --> 01:33:07.650 I'm going to look at their 01:33:07.650 --> 01:33:09.570 faces and see how they're doing 01:33:09.570 --> 01:33:09.920 ." 01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:11.670 And then I'm going to listen at 01:33:11.670 --> 01:33:13.210 the same time to every word 01:33:13.210 --> 01:33:14.560 this guy says and I'm going 01:33:14.560 --> 01:33:16.290 to make sure that I don't 01:33:16.290 --> 01:33:18.280 respond to anything I don't 01:33:18.280 --> 01:33:19.120 have to. 01:33:19.120 --> 01:33:21.040 And that's the thing that maybe 01:33:21.040 --> 01:33:22.990 you wouldn't have done when you 01:33:22.990 --> 01:33:24.800 were younger is force yourself 01:33:24.800 --> 01:33:25.800 to listen. 01:33:25.800 --> 01:33:26.800 That's very hard. 01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:28.520 That's the important thing. 01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:30.590 That's what this guy really 01:33:30.590 --> 01:33:31.320 wants. 01:33:31.320 --> 01:33:32.510 He wants that more than he 01:33:32.510 --> 01:33:33.860 wants to fight, although he 01:33:33.860 --> 01:33:35.120 really wants to fight. 01:33:35.120 --> 01:33:37.160 I mean, think about what he was 01:33:37.160 --> 01:33:37.840 doing. 01:33:37.840 --> 01:33:39.170 Because the risk for him is 01:33:39.170 --> 01:33:40.740 that he's going to destroy this 01:33:40.740 --> 01:33:41.600 conference. 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:43.130 It's going to turn into bedlam, 01:33:43.130 --> 01:33:43.680 right? 01:33:43.680 --> 01:33:45.030 We're all going to go there 01:33:45.030 --> 01:33:46.280 where he is, right? 01:33:46.280 --> 01:33:47.210 And it's all going to get 01:33:47.210 --> 01:33:47.840 destroyed. 01:33:47.840 --> 01:33:50.200 He doesn't really want that. 01:33:50.200 --> 01:33:51.300 What he wants is he wants 01:33:51.300 --> 01:33:52.700 somebody to understand that he 01:33:52.700 --> 01:33:54.090 's hurting, that this hurt his 01:33:54.090 --> 01:33:54.600 feelings 01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:57.320 and that he didn't like it. 01:33:57.320 --> 01:33:58.430 So what you got to do is 01:33:58.430 --> 01:34:00.060 without recognizing that there 01:34:00.060 --> 01:34:01.800 are so many other people there, 01:34:01.800 --> 01:34:02.640 I don't want to bring it into 01:34:02.640 --> 01:34:03.560 that dimension, but I want to 01:34:03.560 --> 01:34:04.160 validate it. 01:34:04.160 --> 01:34:05.570 I want to say I'm not going to 01:34:05.570 --> 01:34:06.910 object to anything that you 01:34:06.910 --> 01:34:08.400 said, except for the fact that 01:34:08.400 --> 01:34:08.480 you 01:34:08.480 --> 01:34:10.240 say I attacked you because that 01:34:10.240 --> 01:34:11.720 's just not realistic. 01:34:11.720 --> 01:34:13.800 I was standing here 40 feet 01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:15.600 away from where you are. 01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:17.670 There was no attack going on 01:34:17.670 --> 01:34:18.360 here. 01:34:18.360 --> 01:34:19.270 And I could have made a mistake 01:34:19.270 --> 01:34:19.600 , too. 01:34:19.600 --> 01:34:20.600 I hope I said that. 01:34:20.600 --> 01:34:22.280 I was thinking that I need to 01:34:22.280 --> 01:34:23.810 say that I could have been 01:34:23.810 --> 01:34:24.720 mistaken. 01:34:24.720 --> 01:34:26.130 I don't insist that I had to be 01:34:26.130 --> 01:34:26.640 right. 01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:27.640 I don't know. 01:34:27.640 --> 01:34:28.640 We'll not. 01:34:28.640 --> 01:34:30.440 No doubt that people will 01:34:30.440 --> 01:34:32.330 listen to those words very 01:34:32.330 --> 01:34:33.440 carefully. 01:34:33.440 --> 01:34:35.350 I think you might have, 01:34:35.350 --> 01:34:36.440 actually. 01:34:36.440 --> 01:34:37.900 I don't doubt that from his 01:34:37.900 --> 01:34:39.430 point of view, you see, you can 01:34:39.430 --> 01:34:40.920 put everything on that and 01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:42.790 say that there were many points 01:34:42.790 --> 01:34:44.280 of view of that event. 01:34:44.280 --> 01:34:45.450 Lots of people saw all kinds of 01:34:45.450 --> 01:34:46.600 different things there. 01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:49.770 I know what I was thinking was 01:34:49.770 --> 01:34:53.110 I was expecting this to happen 01:34:53.110 --> 01:34:57.760 and this is not a surprise and 01:34:57.760 --> 01:34:58.910 it's going to fall to me to do 01:34:58.910 --> 01:34:59.200 it. 01:34:59.200 --> 01:35:01.140 This was something I was trying 01:35:01.140 --> 01:35:02.760 to find somebody else. 01:35:02.760 --> 01:35:03.970 I knew it was going to happen 01:35:03.970 --> 01:35:05.070 and I talked to a couple of 01:35:05.070 --> 01:35:06.560 other people and I said, "This 01:35:06.560 --> 01:35:07.560 is about to happen. 01:35:07.560 --> 01:35:09.690 Will you stay in the room and 01:35:09.690 --> 01:35:11.400 will you stop it when it 01:35:11.400 --> 01:35:12.480 happens?" 01:35:12.480 --> 01:35:14.240 Nobody wanted to deal with it. 01:35:14.240 --> 01:35:15.130 So they didn't really 01:35:15.130 --> 01:35:16.440 understand, even understand 01:35:16.440 --> 01:35:17.320 what I was saying. 01:35:17.320 --> 01:35:19.020 So I stayed and I waited and it 01:35:19.020 --> 01:35:19.840 happened. 01:35:19.840 --> 01:35:21.200 All right, so we're one hour 01:35:21.200 --> 01:35:22.400 and 30 minutes. 01:35:22.400 --> 01:35:23.920 It's ridiculous isn't it? 01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:26.350 Why don't we wrap it up with 01:35:26.350 --> 01:35:29.000 some podcasting clutch? 01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:30.000 What's that? 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:31.000 Let's talk about podcasting. 01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:32.920 I thought we were going to sing 01:35:32.920 --> 01:35:35.000 about this land is your land. 01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:36.000 You're already dragged. 01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:37.000 You know what? 01:35:37.000 --> 01:35:38.000 Harvard. 01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:40.200 Harvard I heard from Professor 01:35:40.200 --> 01:35:41.000 Lassen. 01:35:41.000 --> 01:35:42.000 What? 01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:44.810 Harvard has a license for 01:35:44.810 --> 01:35:47.000 people singing. 01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:48.980 So Stanford has a license for 01:35:48.980 --> 01:35:51.000 people singing at school. 01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:54.000 I don't have that license here. 01:35:54.000 --> 01:35:55.000 Oh, excuse me. 01:35:55.000 --> 01:35:56.000 You can't sing. 01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:57.000 Oh, really? 01:35:57.000 --> 01:35:58.000 Yeah. 01:35:58.000 --> 01:35:59.420 Well, there must be something I 01:35:59.420 --> 01:36:00.000 can sing. 01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:01.000 All right, anyway, podcast. 01:36:01.000 --> 01:36:02.000 What should we do? 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:04.850 Well, I can't wait to hear the 01:36:04.850 --> 01:36:06.550 -- I don't know, so it may not 01:36:06.550 --> 01:36:08.000 have been addressed, but there 01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:10.130 are a number of issues that 01:36:10.130 --> 01:36:12.470 came up about how we deal with 01:36:12.470 --> 01:36:14.800 this intersection with the 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:17.000 RIA that's coming. 01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:19.000 I mean, the -- 01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:24.000 What did Ron Bloom say? 01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:25.000 What he said? 01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:25.620 About the intersections coming 01:36:25.620 --> 01:36:26.000 up with the RIA. 01:36:26.000 --> 01:36:27.000 He had a very -- 01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.000 He said -- 01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.920 I wish you were here because it 01:36:31.920 --> 01:36:33.560 was very -- you know who Ron 01:36:33.560 --> 01:36:34.000 Bloom is? 01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:35.000 Yeah, I met him. 01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:36.000 Exactly. 01:36:36.000 --> 01:36:38.000 What way should we tell them? 01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:40.000 He's my former partner. 01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:41.280 I think new ideas, company we 01:36:41.280 --> 01:36:42.000 took public. 01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:43.370 I met him early on in the 01:36:43.370 --> 01:36:45.300 company, and he really did the 01:36:45.300 --> 01:36:47.000 whole taking as public. 01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:48.470 I kind of told him on those co- 01:36:48.470 --> 01:36:49.000 tails. 01:36:49.000 --> 01:36:50.000 Yeah, I heard -- I -- 01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:51.000 You heard it. 01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:52.000 You heard it. 01:36:52.000 --> 01:36:52.800 You're one of the other people 01:36:52.800 --> 01:36:53.000 who -- 01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:54.000 We're not the only -- 01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:55.000 I'm looking at you. 01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:56.000 And I'm telling you this. 01:36:56.000 --> 01:36:57.000 I'll shut up. 01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:58.000 I'm a light. 01:36:58.000 --> 01:36:59.000 Okay. 01:36:59.000 --> 01:37:01.000 He needs to foil. 01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:02.000 He needs to crutch. 01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:03.000 And -- 01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:04.390 He's so used to doing these 01:37:04.390 --> 01:37:05.000 things. 01:37:05.000 --> 01:37:06.380 Why do you need to look at him 01:37:06.380 --> 01:37:08.000 when you're talking to him? 01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:09.520 Because it comes across in the 01:37:09.520 --> 01:37:10.000 show. 01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:11.000 It does. 01:37:11.000 --> 01:37:12.000 It does. 01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:12.560 But you see, we do all these 01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:13.650 things without -- I mean, you 01:37:13.650 --> 01:37:14.000 're -- 01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:15.570 Were you ever smiled at anybody 01:37:15.570 --> 01:37:16.950 when you were talking on the 01:37:16.950 --> 01:37:18.000 phone with them? 01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:19.000 All the time. 01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:20.280 You're probably right about 01:37:20.280 --> 01:37:21.000 that, yeah. 01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:22.000 Okay, so -- 01:37:22.000 --> 01:37:23.000 I'm getting tired. 01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:24.000 He's a -- 01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:25.000 I'll shut up now. 01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.000 He's a musician, really. 01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:29.000 He wrote some hits on. 01:37:29.000 --> 01:37:32.150 Yeah, he -- he was like -- and 01:37:32.150 --> 01:37:33.000 he admitted this. 01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:34.610 He never really -- he made 01:37:34.610 --> 01:37:37.120 money and he had studio and had 01:37:37.120 --> 01:37:40.000 lots of -- did lots of session 01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:41.620 or, of course, lots of stay-al 01:37:41.620 --> 01:37:42.000 ike. 01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:43.130 What he didn't mention is that 01:37:43.130 --> 01:37:44.000 he lived with Princess 01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:45.000 Stephanie of Monaco. 01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:46.000 Wow. 01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:47.000 Yeah, that's -- 01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:48.000 Was she a hottie? 01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:49.000 Fucking A. 01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:50.000 Really? 01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:51.000 Okay. 01:37:51.000 --> 01:37:52.000 In between bodyguards. 01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:53.000 No, way before that. 01:37:53.000 --> 01:37:54.350 He produced a record, which is 01:37:54.350 --> 01:37:55.760 how it always happens, isn't it 01:37:55.760 --> 01:37:56.000 ? 01:37:56.000 --> 01:37:57.000 Hey, baby. 01:37:57.000 --> 01:37:58.000 Over here. 01:37:58.000 --> 01:37:59.000 I got you, baby. 01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:01.420 Oh, oh, oh, oh, don't get me in 01:38:01.420 --> 01:38:02.000 jail. 01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:05.000 Oh, there you go. 01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:07.000 Oh, there you go. 01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:09.430 So he -- but what he knows from 01:38:09.430 --> 01:38:11.220 an artist standpoint a lot 01:38:11.220 --> 01:38:13.000 about getting paid or not 01:38:13.000 --> 01:38:14.000 getting paid. 01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:15.000 This is an example. 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:16.660 He's done a lot of soundtracks 01:38:16.660 --> 01:38:18.340 probably for that movie we saw 01:38:18.340 --> 01:38:20.000 last night with Don Drew. 01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:21.470 And if it's played in American 01:38:21.470 --> 01:38:23.000 theater, he gets nothing. 01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:24.500 He doesn't get paid for that 01:38:24.500 --> 01:38:25.000 zero. 01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:25.930 If it's played in a German 01:38:25.930 --> 01:38:27.000 theater, he gets paid. 01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:29.000 So, you know, this is weird. 01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:31.820 And he said everything should 01:38:31.820 --> 01:38:34.000 be labeled fair use. 01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:37.820 What -- based on that, the idea 01:38:37.820 --> 01:38:41.000 was look at ringtones. 01:38:41.000 --> 01:38:42.920 Billions of dollars being made 01:38:42.920 --> 01:38:44.000 on ringtones. 01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:46.000 It's all back catalog stuff. 01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:48.000 It's all real simple. 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:49.490 The DRM works and people are 01:38:49.490 --> 01:38:51.000 making tons of money on it. 01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:52.430 He says, "Well, that's three 01:38:52.430 --> 01:38:53.000 levels. 01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:54.000 It's real simple. 01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:55.810 There's fair use, which is just 01:38:55.810 --> 01:38:57.000 using it myself. 01:38:57.000 --> 01:38:58.380 There's sharing it with my 01:38:58.380 --> 01:39:00.370 friends, which would be 20 01:39:00.370 --> 01:39:01.000 bucks. 01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:02.600 And then there's professional 01:39:02.600 --> 01:39:03.000 use. 01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:04.000 It would be podcast. 01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:05.000 It would be 5,000. 01:39:05.000 --> 01:39:06.000 Whatever. 01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:07.000 Make it simple. 01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:08.000 Boom, boom, boom. 01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:09.100 And everyone wants to 01:39:09.100 --> 01:39:10.000 participate. 01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:12.160 And his approach was don't try 01:39:12.160 --> 01:39:13.980 to go to the lawyers to get 01:39:13.980 --> 01:39:15.000 this done. 01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:16.400 Go to the CEOs of the music 01:39:16.400 --> 01:39:18.880 business and show them the 01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:20.000 money. 01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:22.000 I think it's impossible to -- 01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:24.000 I sort of agree with that. 01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:25.750 I wish you were here to explain 01:39:25.750 --> 01:39:26.000 . 01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:27.890 Yeah, yeah, this is the guy who 01:39:27.890 --> 01:39:29.000 could go to the CEO. 01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:30.000 Yeah, right. 01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:31.000 And speak the language. 01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:33.000 I hear that. 01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:34.850 And I think that that is the 01:39:34.850 --> 01:39:36.890 right approach, is to go and 01:39:36.890 --> 01:39:38.000 talk to them. 01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:40.410 The thing, though, is I think 01:39:40.410 --> 01:39:42.850 that there's an opportunity to 01:39:42.850 --> 01:39:45.000 create enough content. 01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:46.000 Totally. 01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:47.580 To be able to go to them and 01:39:47.580 --> 01:39:49.400 say, "Okay, you want some of 01:39:49.400 --> 01:39:50.000 this?" 01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:51.000 Yeah. 01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:52.000 That's what he's saying. 01:39:52.000 --> 01:39:53.000 Yeah, that makes sense. 01:39:53.000 --> 01:39:54.370 He's saying, except without 01:39:54.370 --> 01:39:56.000 being confrontational about it, 01:39:56.000 --> 01:39:58.000 being sales-y about it, saying, 01:39:58.000 --> 01:40:00.000 "Here's a distribution system. 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:01.000 We want to plug you into it." 01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:02.000 Right. 01:40:02.000 --> 01:40:04.470 We need to create an archive, a 01:40:04.470 --> 01:40:07.000 backlog, a catalog of this. 01:40:07.000 --> 01:40:08.000 A lot of this. 01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:09.370 So that we can have something 01:40:09.370 --> 01:40:10.000 to trade. 01:40:10.000 --> 01:40:11.510 You can't stop that catalog 01:40:11.510 --> 01:40:13.000 from being created now. 01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.000 The catalog is already there. 01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:16.810 It's just we don't know how to 01:40:16.810 --> 01:40:17.000 -- 01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:18.470 Hey, I have another idea for 01:40:18.470 --> 01:40:19.000 format, okay? 01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:20.990 Another format for a conference 01:40:20.990 --> 01:40:22.000 , all right? 01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:24.310 What you do is you rent a hotel 01:40:24.310 --> 01:40:26.000 like this, okay? 01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:27.310 Maybe not here -- this is 01:40:27.310 --> 01:40:28.560 pretty close, actually, to what 01:40:28.560 --> 01:40:30.460 I would like, except it's not 01:40:30.460 --> 01:40:31.000 like near a beach or something, 01:40:31.000 --> 01:40:32.690 a place where you can go for h 01:40:32.690 --> 01:40:34.000 ikes or whatever. 01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:36.540 And you rent out enough rooms 01:40:36.540 --> 01:40:38.960 in it so that you could have 01:40:38.960 --> 01:40:41.380 like 25 different people who do 01:40:41.380 --> 01:40:43.000 podcasts in the hotel 01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:45.260 at the same time for a week, 01:40:45.260 --> 01:40:46.000 okay? 01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:47.000 All right? 01:40:47.000 --> 01:40:49.000 And you cross pollinate. 01:40:49.000 --> 01:40:49.960 You sit down, you do exactly 01:40:49.960 --> 01:40:51.000 what we're doing right now. 01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:52.000 Yeah. 01:40:52.000 --> 01:40:53.380 You do the -- you find out what 01:40:53.380 --> 01:40:54.000 the combinations do. 01:40:54.000 --> 01:40:56.000 You do the combinatorics. 01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:57.000 And you also -- 01:40:57.000 --> 01:40:58.000 Maybe even do a round robin. 01:40:58.000 --> 01:40:59.770 Maybe even play some games, too 01:40:59.770 --> 01:41:00.000 . 01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:01.260 You also have that big room 01:41:01.260 --> 01:41:02.000 sometimes. 01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:04.000 Whenever you want it, actually. 01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:05.000 For the recording studio. 01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:06.000 Right, whenever you want it. 01:41:06.000 --> 01:41:07.000 That's what that was. 01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:09.000 And it's a 24 by 7 thing. 01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:10.680 It's going on all day, all 01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:13.160 night, you know, whatever, you 01:41:13.160 --> 01:41:14.000 know, and it's -- 01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:16.000 You have a house band. 01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:17.390 Yeah, you need the whole line 01:41:17.390 --> 01:41:18.000 of yards. 01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:19.220 We've been talking about this 01:41:19.220 --> 01:41:20.000 for a long time. 01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:21.000 How would you -- 01:41:21.000 --> 01:41:22.000 How would you guys -- 01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:22.860 How would you guys will be here 01:41:22.860 --> 01:41:23.000 ? 01:41:23.000 --> 01:41:24.000 They will be here. 01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:25.000 They will fucking be here. 01:41:25.000 --> 01:41:27.090 And you have to do a live 01:41:27.090 --> 01:41:29.990 recording with them before you 01:41:29.990 --> 01:41:31.000 leave town. 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:32.000 Not this time. 01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:33.000 Yeah, oh yeah. 01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:34.000 And I will. 01:41:34.000 --> 01:41:35.540 They're going to come to the 01:41:35.540 --> 01:41:36.000 castle. 01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:36.670 I'll have them do a little mini 01:41:36.670 --> 01:41:37.000 concert. 01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:38.000 Curt Castle. 01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:39.000 I'm a big fan of the -- 01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:39.770 I've been very happy when you 01:41:39.770 --> 01:41:41.070 played the Power of Puritan to 01:41:41.070 --> 01:41:42.000 the beginning of your session. 01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:43.000 It was like a wave. 01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:44.000 It was nice to hear. 01:41:44.000 --> 01:41:45.000 Oh, yeah! 01:41:45.000 --> 01:41:47.000 The show is starting! 01:41:47.000 --> 01:41:48.000 Exactly. 01:41:48.000 --> 01:41:50.210 Yeah, I was like, oh, this is a 01:41:50.210 --> 01:41:51.000 show. 01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:52.000 Yeah. 01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:53.000 It was -- 01:41:53.000 --> 01:41:54.120 Notice I didn't mention that 01:41:54.120 --> 01:41:55.000 every source code. 01:41:55.000 --> 01:41:56.000 No, you didn't have to. 01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:57.450 We all got in that mood right 01:41:57.450 --> 01:41:58.000 there. 01:41:58.000 --> 01:41:59.000 It's cool. 01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:00.780 It's like Cavalod's dogs were 01:42:00.780 --> 01:42:02.000 crying out loud. 01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:03.000 He started -- 01:42:03.000 --> 01:42:04.000 Boy! 01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:05.000 Say that again. 01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:06.000 Boy! 01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:07.000 Boy! 01:42:07.000 --> 01:42:08.000 Boy! 01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:09.000 Boy! 01:42:09.000 --> 01:42:11.000 You're going to be 50 years. 01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:12.000 You're going to be -- 01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:13.630 Okay, let's have another hand 01:42:13.630 --> 01:42:14.000 for -- 01:42:14.000 --> 01:42:15.000 Come on, give us another boy! 01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:16.000 Boy! 01:42:16.000 --> 01:42:17.000 I'm already new there. 01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:18.000 What are you talking about? 01:42:18.000 --> 01:42:19.000 That's when I died. 01:42:19.000 --> 01:42:20.000 There's no song. 01:42:20.000 --> 01:42:21.000 It's just boy. 01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:22.440 I was just giving you another 01:42:22.440 --> 01:42:23.000 50. 01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:24.000 I was just saying -- 01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:25.000 50 is good. 01:42:25.000 --> 01:42:26.000 Yeah, I mean, 98. 01:42:26.000 --> 01:42:27.000 You can do it. 01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:28.000 You can do it. 01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:29.000 You can do it. 01:42:29.000 --> 01:42:30.000 Yeah. 01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:31.700 You'll have great, great, great 01:42:31.700 --> 01:42:33.000 grandchildren by then. 01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:34.000 Oh, okay. 01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:35.120 I think you're not Jewish, you 01:42:35.120 --> 01:42:36.000 know how to say that. 01:42:36.000 --> 01:42:36.990 What do you mean I'm not 01:42:36.990 --> 01:42:38.000 allowed to do that? 01:42:38.000 --> 01:42:38.640 Did you guys want to go to 01:42:38.640 --> 01:42:39.000 dinner? 01:42:39.000 --> 01:42:40.000 Yeah. 01:42:40.000 --> 01:42:42.000 I had thought maybe we'd go for 01:42:42.000 --> 01:42:43.000 Fuki Sushi. 01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:44.000 You like that? 01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:45.000 Yeah, I love that. 01:42:45.000 --> 01:42:46.000 It's right down the street. 01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:48.000 It's a really good sushi place. 01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:49.000 Yeah, that used to be -- 01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:50.000 I don't know if it is anymore. 01:42:50.000 --> 01:42:50.930 It used to be Steve Jobs' 01:42:50.930 --> 01:42:52.000 favorite sushi place. 01:42:52.000 --> 01:42:53.000 Yeah, you could go in there. 01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:54.000 You'd see him there. 01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:55.000 Yeah. 01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:56.000 Let's go and see him there. 01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:57.000 Yeah, maybe he's there. 01:42:57.000 --> 01:42:59.000 Can we ask for an autograph? 01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:00.000 Maybe we can? 01:43:00.000 --> 01:43:01.000 Maybe? 01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:02.000 Maybe? 01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:03.000 Maybe? 01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:03.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:03.580 --> 01:43:04.000 autograph. 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:04.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:04.580 --> 01:43:05.000 autograph. 01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:05.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:05.580 --> 01:43:06.000 autograph. 01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:06.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:06.580 --> 01:43:07.000 autograph. 01:43:07.000 --> 01:43:07.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:07.580 --> 01:43:08.000 autograph. 01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:08.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:08.580 --> 01:43:09.000 autograph. 01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:09.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:09.580 --> 01:43:10.000 autograph. 01:43:10.000 --> 01:43:10.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:10.580 --> 01:43:11.000 autograph. 01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:11.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:11.580 --> 01:43:12.000 autograph. 01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:12.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:12.580 --> 01:43:13.000 autograph. 01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:13.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:13.580 --> 01:43:14.000 autograph. 01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:14.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:14.580 --> 01:43:15.000 autograph. 01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:15.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:15.580 --> 01:43:16.000 autograph. 01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:16.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:16.580 --> 01:43:17.000 autograph. 01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:17.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:17.580 --> 01:43:18.000 autograph. 01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:18.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:18.580 --> 01:43:19.000 autograph. 01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:19.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:19.580 --> 01:43:20.000 autograph. 01:43:20.000 --> 01:43:20.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:20.580 --> 01:43:21.000 autograph. 01:43:21.000 --> 01:43:21.570 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:21.570 --> 01:43:22.000 autograph. 01:43:22.000 --> 01:43:26.180 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:26.180 --> 01:43:29.000 autograph. 01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:29.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:29.580 --> 01:43:30.000 autograph. 01:43:30.000 --> 01:43:30.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:30.580 --> 01:43:31.000 autograph. 01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:31.600 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:31.600 --> 01:43:32.000 autograph. 01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:32.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:32.580 --> 01:43:33.000 autograph. 01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:33.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:33.580 --> 01:43:34.000 autograph. 01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:34.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:34.580 --> 01:43:35.000 autograph. 01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:35.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:35.580 --> 01:43:36.000 autograph. 01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:36.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:36.580 --> 01:43:37.000 autograph. 01:43:37.000 --> 01:43:37.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:37.580 --> 01:43:38.000 autograph. 01:43:38.000 --> 01:43:38.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:38.580 --> 01:43:39.000 autograph. 01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:39.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:39.580 --> 01:43:40.000 autograph. 01:43:40.000 --> 01:43:40.620 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:40.620 --> 01:43:41.000 autograph. 01:43:41.000 --> 01:43:41.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:41.580 --> 01:43:42.000 autograph. 01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:42.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:42.580 --> 01:43:43.000 autograph. 01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:43.590 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:43.590 --> 01:43:44.000 autograph. 01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:44.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:44.580 --> 01:43:45.000 autograph. 01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:45.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:45.580 --> 01:43:46.000 autograph. 01:43:46.000 --> 01:43:46.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:46.580 --> 01:43:47.000 autograph. 01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:47.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:47.580 --> 01:43:48.000 autograph. 01:43:48.000 --> 01:43:48.590 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:48.590 --> 01:43:49.000 autograph. 01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:49.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:49.580 --> 01:43:50.000 autograph. 01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:50.580 Maybe we can ask for an 01:43:50.580 --> 01:43:51.000 autograph. 01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:53.500 ♪ Your speakers ♪ 01:43:53.500 --> 01:44:03.500 [BLANK_AUDIO]